Men - Dressing like Muslims

Abdalhakim

Salaams, brothers and sisters.

I'm new to this forum. I have a few questions for brothers (though if sisters have any views they would be welcome).

Do you think that we should dress like muslims, or is western dress acceptable?

Do you ever wear "Islamic" clothes? If so, what, and on what occasion? What reaction do you get from non-Muslims?

wes

Abdalhakim wrote: »

Salaams, brothers and sisters.

I'm new to this forum. I have a few questions for brothers (though if sisters have any views they would be welcome).

Do you think that we should dress like muslims, or is western dress acceptable?

Do you ever wear "Islamic" clothes? If so, what, and on what occasion? What reaction do you get from non-Muslims?

There is no such thing as "Islamic" clothes. Wearing Pakistani clothing for instance is not Islamic, it is a cultural thing, as Arab traditional clothing would be different theres. Now, there is nothing wrong with being proud of ones heritage and I have occassionaly worn traditional Pakistani clothing, but I normally dress in Western style clothing.

All we need to do is dress modestly and we can dress modestly while wearing Western style clothing.

AbuBakr

Assalaamu alaykum, brother Abdalhakim!

Welcome to the forum.

I agree with Wes - nothing wrong with "western clothing" so long as it's modest. I used to have to wear suits and ties to work, and I'd change in the evening into something more loose and comfortable. I've got a couple of thawbs (is that the correct spelling? - I'm talking about the thing that Arabs wear that's like an ankle-length shirt) and I like to wear one at home when I can. I don't know whether this makes sense, but I find that I move more slowly (can't really run about in a thawb!) and I feel calmer and more relaxed when I wear a thawb than when I wear something like a t-shirt and jeans.

Now that I don't have to dress up for work, I've thought of trying out something like the long shirt and loose pants that men from Pakistan sometimes wear, and actually wearing them outside rather than just indoors.

What about yourself?

Abdalhakim

AbuBakr wrote: »

Assalaamu alaykum, brother Abdalhakim!

Welcome to the forum.

I agree with Wes - nothing wrong with "western clothing" so long as it's modest. I used to have to wear suits and ties to work, and I'd change in the evening into something more loose and comfortable. I've got a couple of thawbs (is that the correct spelling? - I'm talking about the thing that Arabs wear that's like an ankle-length shirt) and I like to wear one at home when I can. I don't know whether this makes sense, but I find that I move more slowly (can't really run about in a thawb!) and I feel calmer and more relaxed when I wear a thawb than when I wear something like a t-shirt and jeans.

Now that I don't have to dress up for work, I've thought of trying out something like the long shirt and loose pants that men from Pakistan sometimes wear, and actually wearing them outside rather than just indoors.

What about yourself?

Wa'laikum assalam.

I think it's called the shalwar kameez - I've seen people wearing them, mainly I guess of India/Pakistan/Bangladesh origin. Would they be offended if I wore traditional Pakistani clothing when I'm not from Pakistan?

I just wear ordinary clothes. Don't we need to cover the awrah - the body from the navel to the knees, and cover the shoulders and upper body when we pray (and we should pray in clean clothes).

But I asked the question because I read a lot on the internet that Muslims should dress distinctively because "whoever imitates a people is one of them".

hivizman

Just out of interest, there was an article in The Guardian a couple of months ago with a nice photo of men at prayer. Here's the link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/dec/11/muxlim-virtual-world-mmorpg

The photo shows a wide variety of clothes styles, from "western" to more "traditional".

Jannah

Hmmm, I don't think guys should get too bogged down in the whole 'needing' a beard, thobe, shawlar kameez etc- it's not really that important in the wide scope of things. While obviously women must wear hijab, I would find it peculiar to see a guy wearing something when it was not the clothes of his culture... I would think that the whole "whoever imitates a people is one of them" is more confined to mannerisms- especially since there is no such think as 'non-muslim' clothes as much as there isn't such a thing as 'muslim clothes'.

Abdalhakim

Yeah, I see what you mean. I guess it's seeing all these fellers on YouTube with the sunnah beards dressed like someone from Saudi that got me thinking.

Wasn't there something a couple of years ago about not wearing ties because they were supposed to be based on the Christian cross? I wasn't really convinced at the time, but a few brothers were very sure that this was so.

wes

Abdalhakim wrote: »

Yeah, I see what you mean. I guess it's seeing all these fellers on YouTube with the sunnah beards dressed like someone from Saudi that got me thinking.

Wasn't there something a couple of years ago about not wearing ties because they were supposed to be based on the Christian cross? I wasn't really convinced at the time, but a few brothers were very sure that this was so.

Well the tie things sounds made up to me.

Just wear what you find comfortable and don't worry about what people on You Tube say, anyone can throw up a video on there and claim to be an expert.

hivizman

On the tie thing, I remember this came up when some sailors in the British navy were held by Iran back in 2007. There was something about not wearing ties on the news when they were released, and I've found this article "Why don't Iranians wear ties?".

Briefly, it seems that, after the Iranian Revolution in 1979, ties were denounced as symbols of "western imperialism". Some Iranian clerics rationalised the ban on wearing ties by arguing that the tie was derived from the cross that crusaders wore on their surcoats:

Crusaders in the 13th and 14th century were attacking Muslims and wanted to conquer Jerusalem. Their clothing was made of armor with a big cross over their chest. Later on, the cross became smaller and slowly changed to a white shirt and cravatt (neck tie). This resembles the cross and has become the symbol of western civilization, western domination, and capitalism.

Source: http://www.icbh.org/topics/muslimu.htm

The consensus on the web, though, is that wearing ties is OK for Muslim men so long as they are not made of silk and don't have pictures of animals or non-Islamic religious symbols on them.

Jannah

Abdalhakim wrote: »

Yeah, I see what you mean. I guess it's seeing all these fellers on YouTube with the sunnah beards dressed like someone from Saudi that got me thinking.

Haha, ahhh, I know what you mean! I think that the kurta is a great option for men, though- it's very blendable into 'western' style clothes too.

hivizman wrote: »

wearing ties is OK for Muslim men so long as they are not made of silk and don't have pictures of animals or non-Islamic religious symbols on them.

Lol, I think ALL guys shouldn't have ties with animals on them!!

Abdalhakim

Jannah wrote: »

Haha, ahhh, I know what you mean! I think that the kurta is a great option for men, though- it's very blendable into 'western' style clothes too.

I've been looking at pictures - some of the kurtas look very neat, and as you say you can wear one with an ordinary pair of trousers and still look good. :cool:

Abu Shakurah

Abdalhakim wrote: »

Salaams, brothers and sisters.

I'm new to this forum. I have a few questions for brothers (though if sisters have any views they would be welcome).

Do you think that we should dress like muslims, or is western dress acceptable?

Do you ever wear "Islamic" clothes? If so, what, and on what occasion? What reaction do you get from non-Muslims?

Wa alaikum as salam,

The requirement for men is that the garments should be loose and not show the form from the navel to the knee. You should also avoid wearing clothes in imitation of the kuffar. The garments should also be above the ankle, for the Prophet told us that whatever is below the ankle is in the hellfire.

Abu Shakurah

hivizman wrote: »

On the tie thing, I remember this came up when some sailors in the British navy were held by Iran back in 2007. There was something about not wearing ties on the news when they were released, and I've found this article "Why don't Iranians wear ties?".

Briefly, it seems that, after the Iranian Revolution in 1979, ties were denounced as symbols of "western imperialism". Some Iranian clerics rationalised the ban on wearing ties by arguing that the tie was derived from the cross that crusaders wore on their surcoats:



The consensus on the web, though, is that wearing ties is OK for Muslim men so long as they are not made of silk and don't have pictures of animals or non-Islamic religious symbols on them.

I asked this question to Shaikh AbdulAziz, the Mufti of Saudi Arabia, in 2002 and he said as ties were no longer a specific dress associated with the kuffar, that they were acceptable. I would still advise the brothers to be careful in the manner of their dress - the trousers of the west are not acceptable attire for modest males.

Abu Shakurah

Abdalhakim wrote: »

Yeah, I see what you mean. I guess it's seeing all these fellers on YouTube with the sunnah beards dressed like someone from Saudi that got me thinking.

Wasn't there something a couple of years ago about not wearing ties because they were supposed to be based on the Christian cross? I wasn't really convinced at the time, but a few brothers were very sure that this was so.

Shaikh Al Albani was of this opinion.

oceanclub

hivizman wrote: »

Some Iranian clerics rationalised the ban on wearing ties by arguing that the tie was derived from the cross that crusaders wore on their surcoats.

Pity they didn't have Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cravat

The cravat is a neckband, the forerunner of the modern tailored necktie and bow tie. [...] The modern cravat originated in the 1630s; like most men's fashions between the 17th century and World War I, it was of military origin. In the reign of France's Louis XIII, Croatian mercenaries [2] were enlisted into a regiment supporting the King and Cardinal Richelieu against the Duc de Guise and the Queen Mother, Marie de Medici. The traditional Croat military kit aroused Parisian curiosity about the unusual, picturesque scarves distinctively knotted at the Croats' necks; the cloths that were used, ranged from the coarse cloths of enlisted soldiers, to the fine linens and silks of the officers. The sartorial word "cravat" derives from the French "cravate," a corrupt French pronunciation of "Croat" — in Croatian, "Hrvat".

P.

balkanac

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wes

balkanac wrote: »

imitating the disbelievers is forbidden and who ever immitates the disbelievers becomes one of them ooooo muslims why do you walk down the street with your head bowed down are you not proud muslims be different grow your beards dress differently and be proud muslims and do not worry about anything else for who is more worthy of fearing than ALLAH do you fear men and their gaze of dissaproval because you dress differently? be muslims islam means submission to allah and his laws not to tk maxx and heatons or dunnes stores down the street

Are you joking? You sound like a parody by being so extreme.

Nodin

balkanac wrote: »

imitating the disbelievers is forbidden and who ever immitates the disbelievers becomes one of them ooooo muslims why do you walk down the street with your head bowed down are you not proud muslims be different grow your beards dress differently and be proud muslims and do not worry about anything else for who is more worthy of fearing than ALLAH do you fear men and their gaze of dissaproval because you dress differently? be muslims islam means submission to allah and his laws not to tk maxx and heatons or dunnes stores down the street

...see, if you over do it, it becomes too obvious that you're taking the michael....Less is more.

balkanac

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wes

balkanac wrote: »

too extreme :eek:
i guess thats it now days if you have a beard and pray 5 times a day you are too extreme prehaps all muslims should immitate the non muslims

There is nothing wrong with growing a beard. I grow one from time to time. Sometimes, I even wear a Salvar Gameese (the spelling there is completely wrong) and sometimes I wears Jean and and cleanly shaven. You do realize not all Muslims actually do the whole beard thing right? Where my family is from, it is common to see men with and without beards.

Also, there is nothing wrong with wearing the same clothes as non-Muslims. Also, there is no such thing as Muslim clothing either btw. Also Non-Muslims also grow beards, so the whole imitation thing is silly if you ask me.

balkanac wrote: »

lets all celebrate easter munch on the eggs, kiss under the missletoe for christmass or buuu scare each other for hallooween for they are some of the non muslim festivals and if a muslim celebrates theese he is imitating the non muslims thus wearing european clothes is like eating a big fat turkey for christmass dinner

Whats wrong with joining in on the fun? Halloween is a bit if fun for children. As for kissing under mistletoe, well you don't have to do that, I personally wouldn't kiss a stranger in such a fashion, as I would find it uncomfortable. As for Easter eggs, there just chocolate eggs and a bit of fun for children. You can join in on all these things and still be a good Muslim. You don't have to do anything you feel uncomfortable doing either, but joining in on some the fun is a good thing.

I would also think it good to invite non-Muslim friends to join in on Eid. I know this kind of thing is done in Malaysia, where everyone joins in on there others festivals and everyone has a lot of fun and gets to know one another better.

balkanac wrote: »

it must be when you think about it

cheers:eek:

I think your going way way over board here. Join in on some of the fun. You'll still be a good Muslim. Don't listen to those who say you aren't, they are just hateful people imho.

balkanac

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Abdalhakim

balkanac wrote: »

imitating the disbelievers is forbidden and who ever immitates the disbelievers becomes one of them ooooo muslims why do you walk down the street with your head bowed down are you not proud muslims be different grow your beards dress differently and be proud muslims and do not worry about anything else for who is more worthy of fearing than ALLAH do you fear men and their gaze of dissaproval because you dress differently? be muslims islam means submission to allah and his laws not to tk maxx and heatons or dunnes stores down the street

I'm confused. Some of you are saying that there's no such thing as "Islamic clothing" for men, just traditional clothes of people who happen to be Muslim. Others are saying that, if I wear anything that's commonly worn by non-Muslims, I'm "imitating the kuffar" and that makes me a non-believer. I know that there are many ahadith about what the Prophet (may the blessings of Allah and peace be upon him) wore, and what he liked and disliked, but I thought that the only obligatory thing for normal wear is to cover the awrah?

oceanclub

balkanac wrote: »

imitating the disbelievers is forbidden and who ever immitates the disbelievers becomes one of them ooooo muslims why do you walk down the street with your head bowed down are you not proud muslims be different grow your beards dress differently and be proud muslims and do not worry about anything else for who is more worthy of fearing than ALLAH do you fear men and their gaze of dissaproval because you dress differently? be muslims islam means submission to allah and his laws not to tk maxx and heatons or dunnes stores down the street

I thought it was against Islam not to drink before posting?

P.

wes

balkanac wrote: »

a bit of fun?
a bit of fun?

its only a bacon sandwich and here is my friend he sleeps with my wife and i sleep with his wife but its only a bit of fun, and we slander other people while we have a few beers down at the strip bar at the weekend its only a bit of fun

Who says you have to do these things? Again, you can be a good Muslims and engage in local festivals and what not. Its not against Islam to eat a chocolate egg for goodness sake.

You don't need to eat bacon or have sex outside marriage if you don't want too. No one is holding a gun to your head and saying you have to do these things. You are quite frankly being ridiculous here.

balkanac wrote: »

if you think religion is fun you are in for a suprise place your hand over the burning stove and feel the heat of hellfire for that is not fun god did not make religion and mankind for a bit of fun this life is a test for the here after and hellfire is where i fear a bit of fun may take me my imaginary wife friends and drinking pals.. to

Who said you have to do those things? You are engaged in a absurd straw man. You have invented a position for me to argue with. I have never said any of what you suggest above and this is an invention of your own.

Also, I am pretty sure we can fun on this Earth and still be good Muslims. To some how suggest otherwise is silly in my opinion.

balkanac wrote: »

sura 21:17 "we created not the heaven and the earth and what is between them for sport" ie a bit of fun

What the hell are you talking about?

wes

Abdalhakim wrote: »

I'm confused. Some of you are saying that there's no such thing as "Islamic clothing" for men, just traditional clothes of people who happen to be Muslim.

The simple fact, is that there is no such thing as Muslim clothing. All we have to do is dress modestly.

Abdalhakim wrote: »

Others are saying that, if I wear anything that's commonly worn by non-Muslims, I'm "imitating the kuffar" and that makes me a non-believer. I know that there are many ahadith about what the Prophet (may the blessings of Allah and peace be upon him) wore, and what he liked and disliked, but I thought that the only obligatory thing for normal wear is to cover the awrah?

IMHO, these people are taking things to an extreme.

balkanac

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wes

balkanac wrote: »

The simple fact, is that there is no such thing as Muslim clothing:eek:

Well, there is no such thing as Muslim clothing. Just Pakistani or Arab clothing and what not.

Big Wave

Kusumac.

balkanac

weser, look at depictions of muslims in art through out the centuries and you will note a distinct image today there are no turbans and men are not covered by a single white sheet as were the prophets companions no suits no hats no englishman look as regards to "islamic clothes" there is a recession proof idea for you sell muslim clothes a piece of cloth wrapped around a man is muslim be different

wes

balkanac wrote: »

weser, look at depictions of muslims in art through out the centuries and you will note a distinct image today there are no turbans and men are not covered by a single white sheet as were the prophets companions no suits no hats no englishman look as regards to "islamic clothes" there is a recession proof idea for you sell muslim clothes a piece of cloth wrapped around a man is muslim be different

All I have to do is look at the fact that Pakistani Muslims wear different clothes than Arab Muslims for instance.

As for ancient art, well it hardly changes the fact that Muslims the world over dress differently.

balkanac

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Lu Tze

balkanac wrote: »

why arabs and pakistanis dress differently to one another i dont know but they are different to their non muslims and that is more important

I don't know if it is acceptable for a non-believer to post here but...

Not all arabs or pakistanis are muslim i pressume, so if there is no difference in traditional dress based on religion within there countries then they will be dressed the same, muslims and non-believers.

balkanac

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Lu Tze

balkanac wrote: »

you are welcome here every one is a believer in islam although some are in a state of kufr which is hiding from god and his words

the issue of dress is complex muslims are urged to dress unlike non muslims

what happens today is different and not everything today represents islam welll like forced marriages, belief in witchcraft etc etc all un islamic thhings found in "muslim" societies


muslims are asked to strive and dress differently do they? you have pointed out correctly that in pakistan they dont because muslims and non muslims dress alike

why do goths dress differently marylin manson fans, slipknot heads or freaks? why do rappers carry their baggy clothes thing about 50 cent with his undies hanging down to his knees or snoop doggy dogg and tupac living a gangstar lifestyle or why do classical musicians wear nice suits and look the part? and look differently islam is asking the same except the freaks bit

by them looking differently they are selling their identity why do thoose inner city our outer city hoodie lads roam the streets in their tracksutis and have security guards following them thats their identity islam is asking the same that you identify with your background imagine a lad from finglas walking down the street in a suit jayzus they would say and probably beat him up up hope not

THINK ABOUT IT:cool:

Thank you for your welcome. It just seems that you are in favour of complete segregation, that the muslims would form their own society here, and not participate in the wider community, eg kids going out at halloween.

This can be one of the causes of prejudice, as people will not learn to understand your way of life, and the old cliche rings true, with fear that which we do not understand.

Regardless of religion, i thnk that society benefits from community interaction on a local level far more than anything else. It is more prominent in rural ireland, but anybody new in the parishes if they wish to get involved are welcomed.

If one muslim family does this actively in a small rural community, then it can go a long way towards changing a community's mindset from the negative connotations with which a lot of people associate now with islam.Edit: I mean within the non-believers, as anytime there is an Islam related news story, it is generally bad news.

For everybody reading this, as i am new here, if i post something overly offensive due to my ignorance, i apologise in advance.

balkanac

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Lu Tze

balkanac wrote: »

finding a balance is very difficult and its something i am not too educated on it is for our communities to discuss and not to stamp on anyones feet

I appreciate your candour. Our society in Ireland has always resisted change (a legacy of our past i guess). I know that sacrifices in your way of life have to be made to operate in western society.

Does the restrictions, if there is such, on how men dress, come from the Quran? Does everything come from the Quran? Are there suplementary texts which are adhered to?

balkanac

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Lu Tze

balkanac wrote: »

if you would like and overview on the quran there are many books

Cheers for the info. I live with a muslim so i have access to a copy of the quran.

I'll leave ye at it now, as i have dragged this thread off topic.

Good luck all

Jannah

balkanac wrote: »

you are welcome here every one is a believer in islam although some are in a state of kufr which is hiding from god and his words

Lol, thanks for that :P There are actually a lot of "People of the Book" here, so you may want to choose your words carefully

Boston

balkanac wrote: »

imitating the disbelievers is forbidden and who ever immitates the disbelievers becomes one of them ooooo muslims why do you walk down the street with your head bowed down are you not proud muslims be different grow your beards dress differently and be proud muslims and do not worry about anything else for who is more worthy of fearing than ALLAH do you fear men and their gaze of dissaproval because you dress differently? be muslims islam means submission to allah and his laws not to tk maxx and heatons or dunnes stores down the street

How do you expect to be accepted if you strive so hard for segregation.

balkanac

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Abdalhakim

Jazakallah khairun and thanks for all your comments. As I see it, I can hold my head up as a proud Muslim whatever I wear, as long as it's decent and modest. I don't have to dress up like an Arab or someone from India or Pakistan, or wear a turban. That's a relief!

Abu Shakurah

wes wrote: »

The simple fact, is that there is no such thing as Muslim clothing. All we have to do is dress modestly.



IMHO, these people are taking things to an extreme.

Ah, and Wes is the prime example of moderation, eh?

Abu Shakurah

Boston wrote: »

How do you expect to be accepted if you strive so hard for segregation.

Perhaps Boston it is you who should be willing to accept difference, or must everyone be like you before you'll accept them? Well done balkanac for having the courage to speak the truth.

InFront

Abdalhakim wrote: »

I think it's called the shalwar kameez - I've seen people wearing them, mainly I guess of India/Pakistan/Bangladesh origin. Would they be offended if I wore traditional Pakistani clothing when I'm not from Pakistan?

As-salamu alaikum bro... from a cultural point of view, no is the short answer I guess, they would have very little to worry about in their own lives if they did:).

Hey I am no scholar but I do think the most important thing is your internal identity as a Muslim, it seems as though that is where to begin, not in the clothes you wear. Of course the clothes matter - it is important to preserve Hijab in the male and female.

But as for the fine tuning of whether this is Pakistani dress, or more Arab in appearance, or more European - as long as you observe proper Hijab then wear what you are most comfortable in as you go about your work as a good Muslim spreading da’wah about our beloved Prophet (peace be upon him)... this is more important than cultural variations in clothing!!:)

Sonic_exyouth

Abdalhakim wrote: »

Salaams, brothers and sisters.

I'm new to this forum. I have a few questions for brothers (though if sisters have any views they would be welcome).

Do you think that we should dress like muslims, or is western dress acceptable?

Do you ever wear "Islamic" clothes? If so, what, and on what occasion? What reaction do you get from non-Muslims?

Islamic clothing = rolled up trousers, loosely fitted clothes and a beard

Abdalhakim

InFront wrote: »

As-salamu alaikum bro... from a cultural point of view, no is the short answer I guess, they would have very little to worry about in their own lives if they did:).

Hey I am no scholar but I do think the most important thing is your internal identity as a Muslim, it seems as though that is where to begin, not in the clothes you wear. Of course the clothes matter - it is important to preserve Hijab in the male and female.

But as for the fine tuning of whether this is Pakistani dress, or more Arab in appearance, or more European - as long as you observe proper Hijab then wear what you are most comfortable in as you go about your work as a good Muslim spreading da’wah about our beloved Prophet (peace be upon him)... this is more important than cultural variations in clothing!!:)

Assalamu alaykum, brother. Jazak Allah khairun (and also to Sonic_exyouth for your comments - the beard's coming along nicely ).

I guess I was thinking that the internal identity is sometimes helped to form by taking on a clear external identity. But I take your point about the most effective ways of giving da'wah - for an Irishman to dress up as someone from the Middle East or Pakistan may not be the best way of calling to Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) here in Ireland.

InFront

Abdalhakim wrote: »

I guess I was thinking that the internal identity is sometimes helped to form by taking on a clear external identity

Wa aleykum-us-sallam wa rahmattullahi wa barakatuh...Ah, I certainly wouldn't disagree there bro Abdalhakim... Oh I didn't guess that you were Irish, anyway I wouldn't disagree with the above man especially if it improves your deen. You mind me asking if you are a new revert to Islam?

Iwasfrozen

So then what should Irish men wear to a Mosque ?
Would a Suit and Tie suffice ?

Iskenderun

I love the robes worn by Iranian clerics, they look so swish and comfortable, and I love the different colours of their turbans depending on their seniority. I have several 'scull' caps some from Muslim countries and some from Buddhist majority countries. I like to wear them sometimes, even though I'm not religious at all.

getz

health, one must be carefull when over dressing in northern europe, the lack of sun to the body can be just as bad as too much sun,in the UK research has found that asian people in the uk are six times more likely to get type2 diabetes, i know there are also few ills that both african and west indians get ,be carefull bet make sure you get the balance right