Men - Dressing like Muslims

Lu Tze

balkanac wrote: »

why arabs and pakistanis dress differently to one another i dont know but they are different to their non muslims and that is more important

I don't know if it is acceptable for a non-believer to post here but...

Not all arabs or pakistanis are muslim i pressume, so if there is no difference in traditional dress based on religion within there countries then they will be dressed the same, muslims and non-believers.

balkanac

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Lu Tze

balkanac wrote: »

you are welcome here every one is a believer in islam although some are in a state of kufr which is hiding from god and his words

the issue of dress is complex muslims are urged to dress unlike non muslims

what happens today is different and not everything today represents islam welll like forced marriages, belief in witchcraft etc etc all un islamic thhings found in "muslim" societies


muslims are asked to strive and dress differently do they? you have pointed out correctly that in pakistan they dont because muslims and non muslims dress alike

why do goths dress differently marylin manson fans, slipknot heads or freaks? why do rappers carry their baggy clothes thing about 50 cent with his undies hanging down to his knees or snoop doggy dogg and tupac living a gangstar lifestyle or why do classical musicians wear nice suits and look the part? and look differently islam is asking the same except the freaks bit

by them looking differently they are selling their identity why do thoose inner city our outer city hoodie lads roam the streets in their tracksutis and have security guards following them thats their identity islam is asking the same that you identify with your background imagine a lad from finglas walking down the street in a suit jayzus they would say and probably beat him up up hope not

THINK ABOUT IT:cool:

Thank you for your welcome. It just seems that you are in favour of complete segregation, that the muslims would form their own society here, and not participate in the wider community, eg kids going out at halloween.

This can be one of the causes of prejudice, as people will not learn to understand your way of life, and the old cliche rings true, with fear that which we do not understand.

Regardless of religion, i thnk that society benefits from community interaction on a local level far more than anything else. It is more prominent in rural ireland, but anybody new in the parishes if they wish to get involved are welcomed.

If one muslim family does this actively in a small rural community, then it can go a long way towards changing a community's mindset from the negative connotations with which a lot of people associate now with islam.Edit: I mean within the non-believers, as anytime there is an Islam related news story, it is generally bad news.

For everybody reading this, as i am new here, if i post something overly offensive due to my ignorance, i apologise in advance.

balkanac

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Lu Tze

balkanac wrote: »

finding a balance is very difficult and its something i am not too educated on it is for our communities to discuss and not to stamp on anyones feet

I appreciate your candour. Our society in Ireland has always resisted change (a legacy of our past i guess). I know that sacrifices in your way of life have to be made to operate in western society.

Does the restrictions, if there is such, on how men dress, come from the Quran? Does everything come from the Quran? Are there suplementary texts which are adhered to?

balkanac

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Lu Tze

balkanac wrote: »

if you would like and overview on the quran there are many books

Cheers for the info. I live with a muslim so i have access to a copy of the quran.

I'll leave ye at it now, as i have dragged this thread off topic.

Good luck all

Jannah

balkanac wrote: »

you are welcome here every one is a believer in islam although some are in a state of kufr which is hiding from god and his words

Lol, thanks for that :P There are actually a lot of "People of the Book" here, so you may want to choose your words carefully

Boston

balkanac wrote: »

imitating the disbelievers is forbidden and who ever immitates the disbelievers becomes one of them ooooo muslims why do you walk down the street with your head bowed down are you not proud muslims be different grow your beards dress differently and be proud muslims and do not worry about anything else for who is more worthy of fearing than ALLAH do you fear men and their gaze of dissaproval because you dress differently? be muslims islam means submission to allah and his laws not to tk maxx and heatons or dunnes stores down the street

How do you expect to be accepted if you strive so hard for segregation.

balkanac

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Abdalhakim

Jazakallah khairun and thanks for all your comments. As I see it, I can hold my head up as a proud Muslim whatever I wear, as long as it's decent and modest. I don't have to dress up like an Arab or someone from India or Pakistan, or wear a turban. That's a relief!

Abu Shakurah

wes wrote: »

The simple fact, is that there is no such thing as Muslim clothing. All we have to do is dress modestly.



IMHO, these people are taking things to an extreme.

Ah, and Wes is the prime example of moderation, eh?

Abu Shakurah

Boston wrote: »

How do you expect to be accepted if you strive so hard for segregation.

Perhaps Boston it is you who should be willing to accept difference, or must everyone be like you before you'll accept them? Well done balkanac for having the courage to speak the truth.

InFront

Abdalhakim wrote: »

I think it's called the shalwar kameez - I've seen people wearing them, mainly I guess of India/Pakistan/Bangladesh origin. Would they be offended if I wore traditional Pakistani clothing when I'm not from Pakistan?

As-salamu alaikum bro... from a cultural point of view, no is the short answer I guess, they would have very little to worry about in their own lives if they did:).

Hey I am no scholar but I do think the most important thing is your internal identity as a Muslim, it seems as though that is where to begin, not in the clothes you wear. Of course the clothes matter - it is important to preserve Hijab in the male and female.

But as for the fine tuning of whether this is Pakistani dress, or more Arab in appearance, or more European - as long as you observe proper Hijab then wear what you are most comfortable in as you go about your work as a good Muslim spreading da’wah about our beloved Prophet (peace be upon him)... this is more important than cultural variations in clothing!!:)

Sonic_exyouth

Abdalhakim wrote: »

Salaams, brothers and sisters.

I'm new to this forum. I have a few questions for brothers (though if sisters have any views they would be welcome).

Do you think that we should dress like muslims, or is western dress acceptable?

Do you ever wear "Islamic" clothes? If so, what, and on what occasion? What reaction do you get from non-Muslims?

Islamic clothing = rolled up trousers, loosely fitted clothes and a beard

Abdalhakim

InFront wrote: »

As-salamu alaikum bro... from a cultural point of view, no is the short answer I guess, they would have very little to worry about in their own lives if they did:).

Hey I am no scholar but I do think the most important thing is your internal identity as a Muslim, it seems as though that is where to begin, not in the clothes you wear. Of course the clothes matter - it is important to preserve Hijab in the male and female.

But as for the fine tuning of whether this is Pakistani dress, or more Arab in appearance, or more European - as long as you observe proper Hijab then wear what you are most comfortable in as you go about your work as a good Muslim spreading da’wah about our beloved Prophet (peace be upon him)... this is more important than cultural variations in clothing!!:)

Assalamu alaykum, brother. Jazak Allah khairun (and also to Sonic_exyouth for your comments - the beard's coming along nicely ).

I guess I was thinking that the internal identity is sometimes helped to form by taking on a clear external identity. But I take your point about the most effective ways of giving da'wah - for an Irishman to dress up as someone from the Middle East or Pakistan may not be the best way of calling to Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) here in Ireland.

InFront

Abdalhakim wrote: »

I guess I was thinking that the internal identity is sometimes helped to form by taking on a clear external identity

Wa aleykum-us-sallam wa rahmattullahi wa barakatuh...Ah, I certainly wouldn't disagree there bro Abdalhakim... Oh I didn't guess that you were Irish, anyway I wouldn't disagree with the above man especially if it improves your deen. You mind me asking if you are a new revert to Islam?

Iwasfrozen

So then what should Irish men wear to a Mosque ?
Would a Suit and Tie suffice ?

Iskenderun

I love the robes worn by Iranian clerics, they look so swish and comfortable, and I love the different colours of their turbans depending on their seniority. I have several 'scull' caps some from Muslim countries and some from Buddhist majority countries. I like to wear them sometimes, even though I'm not religious at all.

getz

health, one must be carefull when over dressing in northern europe, the lack of sun to the body can be just as bad as too much sun,in the UK research has found that asian people in the uk are six times more likely to get type2 diabetes, i know there are also few ills that both african and west indians get ,be carefull bet make sure you get the balance right

Iwasfrozen

getz wrote:

health, one must be carefull when over dressing in northern europe, the lack of sun to the body can be just as bad as too much sun,in the UK research has found that asian people in the uk are six times more likely to get type2 diabetes, i know there are also few ills that both african and west indians get ,be carefull bet make sure you get the balance right

You know the majority of us are White, yes ?

getz

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You know the majority of us are White, yes ?

you dont live in the UK ,do you ?

Sonic_exyouth

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

So then what should Irish men wear to a Mosque ?
Would a Suit and Tie suffice ?

Can you do a proper Ruku' and Sajdah in a suit?

Merch

getz wrote: »

health, one must be carefull when over dressing in northern europe, the lack of sun to the body can be just as bad as too much sun,in the UK research has found that asian people in the uk are six times more likely to get type2 diabetes, i know there are also few ills that both african and west indians get ,be carefull bet make sure you get the balance right

As they are in the same sentence, are you suggesting some correlation between sunlight exposure and diabetes or just the rates of diabetes in people not originally from Europe?

Iwasfrozen

getz wrote:

you dont live in the UK ,do you ?

No but FYI white people account for 91% of the British population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom#Religion

hivizman

I've revived this old thread because the issue came up on another thread about why it is an Islamic belief that people should dress modestly. This thread raised many of the points about what Islam requires for men's clothing, and I thought that it would be convenient to summarise these here.

First, an overarching principle. Muhammad is reported (in Imam Malik's Al-Muwatta) as stating "Every religion has its characteristic, and the characteristic of Islam is modesty (haya)." The arabic word haya is sometimes translated as "shyness" or "bashfulness", and it is considered to apply to the relationships of one person with another and also to the relationship of a person with God. The word implies that people should have a sense of shame about improper practices and thoughts, and hence avoid such thoughts and actions. It also implies that people would not "show off" through their actions and appearance.

As regards dress, there are various verses in the Qur'an that connect with the idea of modesty. In Surat Al-A'raf, as part of the story of Adam and Eve, verse 7:26 states: "O children of Adam, We have bestowed upon you clothing to conceal your private parts and as adornment. But the clothing of righteousness - that is best. That is from the signs of Allah that perhaps they will remember" (Sahih International trans.). The word translated here as "your private parts" is sawātikum, which most translators render as "your shame".

The classic reference for men is Surat An-Nur 24:30, "Tell the believing men to reduce their vision and guard their private parts. That is purer for them. Indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what they do" (Sahih International trans.). Many translators say "lower their gaze" rather than "reduce their vision", while some translators refer to modesty (Pickthall says "be modest" and Yusuf Ali says "guard their modesty"). The arabic word that Sahih International translates as "their private parts" is furūjahum, which can also be understood as meaning "their chastity". The next verse covers women's modesty, but I am not going to cover this issue here.

The Qur'an does not specify the details of how men should "guard their private parts", but there are hadiths that refer to the concept of 'awrah. The root meaning of this relates to exposing things, and a person's 'awrah is that part of the body that must not be exposed. For men, this is the area from the navel to the knees. As long as a man wears something that covers this part of the body, he is modestly dressed. In some parts of South Asia and South-East Asia, for example, male Muslims in very hot weather may wear nothing but a sarong or lungi, a single piece of cloth that covers the body from the waist downwards. In arabic, such a piece of cloth is known as an izaar, and there are traditions that Muhammad wore, or at least owned, such a garment.

Wearing just a single piece of cloth would not be considered appropriate during prayer, and here the expectation is that a man at prayer should cover his shoulders. Many muslim men wear a prayer cap or otherwise cover their heads when at prayer, although this is not an absolute requirement.

Beyond this, modesty in dress requires that it should not be possible to see the skin through the clothes (which is why arab men wear sarwal - a loose pair of trousers like pyjama bottoms - or an izaar under their thobes, since these are often made of thin fabrics), nor the shape of the body, particularly the 'awrah. Also, the garments should not be ostentatious ("garments of fame"), and men are not permitted to wear clothes made of silk or having gold embroidery.

Muslim men should not wear clothes associated with women, or with members of other religions (hence a muslim should not dress as a priest or rabbi). They should not wear clothes carrying symbols of other religions or of living creatures - this prohibition has been used by some strict Muslim jurists to ban wearing Nike clothes, because Nike was the Greek goddess of victory, and hence the Nike swoosh is a symbol of a pagan goddess. Also, clothes should not hang below the ankle - wearing a garment that hangs below the ankle is known as isbāl, and some Muslim men wear cropped trousers to avoid this.

The Arab thobe (or galabiyya, dishdasha, kandoura), with appropriate underwear, is a loose garment that meets the requirement of modesty, as does the Pakistani shalwar kameez, but, as several posters on this thread have pointed out, these are cultural/ethnic garments that happen to be worn by many Muslim men in or from Islamic-majority countries, rather than "Islamic dress" as such.

hivizman

A few months ago, on the "Living in Ireland as a Muslim" thread, I mentioned that I had been experimenting with going out in public wearing a thobe and kufi. In the recent warm weather that we have been having where I live, I've been wearing thobes on a regular basis not just at home but outside as well, and I can appreciate why people in the Middle East find them so comfortable in hot climates. They are light to wear while covering the body from the sun, and they are not constraining round the waist (as trousers or shorts can be). Following advice on the other thread, I have experimented with wearing pyjama bottoms underneath the thobe, but they tend to stick out at the bottom, so I've tried wearing an izaar (a piece of cloth about 120cm wide and 2 metres long, worn like a sarong - I simply bought a piece of cotton cloth from a fabric shop and cut it to size). This can be rolled up round the waist so that it sits underneath the thobe without hanging below the hem, and it tends (I guess through friction) to keep the thobe from riding up. The other thing I've worn underneath the thobe is a pair of long basketball shorts, which are big and loose enough (I bought a pair several sizes larger than usual) to cover my 'awrah.

Despite outings to several nearby towns, I've had virtually no direct reaction. One man asked whether I was a member of a religious order, but the only other reactions are occasional "salaams" from Muslim men.

On a more serious note, a statement that I come across regularly, particularly on more traditionalist Muslim websites, is: "Whoever imitates the kuffar [unbelievers, lit. those who have rejected Islam] becomes one of them." Does this work in reverse - if I dress in a way that may lead to people identifying me as a Muslim, does this increase the probability that I will actually become a Muslim?

irishconvert

hivizman wrote: »

On a more serious note, a statement that I come across regularly, particularly on more traditionalist Muslim websites, is: "Whoever imitates the kuffar [unbelievers, lit. those who have rejected Islam] becomes one of them." Does this work in reverse - if I dress in a way that may lead to people identifying me as a Muslim, does this increase the probability that I will actually become a Muslim?

Salaam hivizman,

Islamically I am not aware of anything which states this. I don't think how you dress can affect what you feel in your heart. And how do you define dressing like a Muslim anyway? Muslims from Pakistan, Africa, Middle East and Europe all dress in totally different ways.

oceanclub

hivizman wrote: »

A few months ago, on the "Living in Ireland as a Muslim" thread, I mentioned that I had been experimenting with going out in public wearing a thobe and kufi.

In the time-honoured tradition of the Internet...... pic!

P.

JuliusCaesar

just wondering - followed the link above and saw this, which to me looks extraordinarily like a cassock or soutane worn by priest and vicars.

And again - just curious - why does modesty mean that a woman has to cover her hair, but men don't?