The Brian Cowen Ard Fheis Speech Thread

nesf

mike65 wrote: »

So are we having a mini budget then? It sounded like it.

If there isn't then Cowen loses what little shreds are left of his credibility.

Hillel

eoinbn wrote: »

Lets be fair. If the parties did that needs to be done the people wouldn't accept it.

Most would, if he was getting his own house in order, first. JC the American cabinet costs less.

AlekSmart

Lets be fair. If the parties did that needs to be done the people wouldn't accept it.

A Fair point,but this is where the principle of Good Governance comes into play along with,dare I say it,that old Europeanism of "The Common Good".

It is as I see it a situation not unlike Law Enforcement.
The function of any Police Force is to enforce the law.
This enforcenent generally amounts to ensuring that we (The Publick) observe the laws which are in place to ensure the smooth and effecient running of a greater body or society.

However in recent times we have endured this Public Relations sub genre of "Community Policing" or whatever term can be adjudged to define a form of policing which will allow the Individual to ignore any given law/regulation if he/she deems it to be of greater importance in THEIR own life.

It is therefore the function of the Police to enforce whatever law is being flouted without having to refer to whether that particular individual actually wants to be subject to its strictures.

This is an elected Government which now finds itself in a unique position in 20th/21st Century terms...It will have to say NO to a wide range of individuals and bodies who have never heard that word before.

The single biggest problem is that the time for the first NO has long passed by and it needed to be said to some VERY highly placed and influential high flying Financial Types BEFORE being uttered to the Great Unwashed clustered around the great peoples feet !!!

Trotter

nesf wrote: »

If there isn't then Cowen loses what little shreds are left of his credibility.

This is all words though! From us and him. Credibility or not, I think we can now be certain that there is nothing that can happen that will force these people from office.

After today, I am convinced that this "government" will go full term because they cannot and will not be forced out.

Hillel

AlekSmart wrote: »

The single biggest problem is that the time for the first NO has long passed by and it needed to be said to some VERY highly placed and influential high flying Financial Types Politicians and their appointees BEFORE being uttered to the Great Unwashed clustered around the great peoples feet !!!

Fixed it for you

eoinbn

Alessandra wrote: »

Well I am talking more about equitable cuts for the likes of politicians and high ranking civil servants. As it is, the pension levy introduced has about 3% difference between those on 40k and those on double that..

Those middle of the road earners are being unjustly targeted while those at the top are not reflecting their capacity to contribute.

Cutting the politicians costs and co isn't going to solve the problem, but it's an important symbol.
Yes tax the high earners more, but don't fool yourself into think that will solve the problem. The 'middle of the road earners' will have to take a lot more pain than a ~4% levy if we are to close a €20b gap.

Hillel

eoinbn wrote: »

Cutting the politicians costs and co isn't going to solve the problem, but it's an important symbol.

Important and necessary.

_Kaiser_

Wasn't impressed by the speech tonight, and by the long pan shots of bored FF's (audience and ministers alike) and exhausted kids, I think it was long on rhetoric and short on detail as usual.

As I've said several times on Boards before, the problem is we as a nation are incapable of governing ourselves properly. The aim is to get in, stay in and look after yourself, your family and your mates for as long as you can.

Certainly, you should NEVER accept any hint of personal responsibility - to listen to Brian tonight you'd think it was solely the banks that got us into this economic meltdown, and while they certainly have a lot to answer for, what about FF's developer friends, or the seemingly endless reports and tribunals into corruption and incompetence at all levels in government and (semi) state bodies. Let's not forget he was, until relatively recently, Bertie's finance minister and who Bertie in turn was finance minister for. The more things change, the more they stay the same...

The man talked about being inspired by people he recently met in the health care services, and protecting the most vulnerable members of our society - at the same time as his government cuts a scheme (as Darragh29 mentioned earlier) that would offer potentially life-saving cancer vaccines to schoolchildren. Then there was the pensioner's medical card fiasco, or the cutbacks in Special Needs teachers, and increased class sizes.

Brian talks about being the man to lead the country out of this recession.
He's fooling no-one. His own cabinet looked disinterested and unconvinced, and I think he knows it himself as he became more desperate as the speech wore on.

Clearly FF are hoping that recycling the same tired slogans and ideas from the last decade (knowledge economy, encouraging foreign investment), but actually doing nothing except introducing this inequitable and ultimately inadequate pension levy will be enough for them to ride it out until the local and European elections, but the reality is the average joe in the street has finally woken up to the sheer scale of incompetence from the FF camp, and they are likely to be decimated at these elections - whether this will prompt a 2nd rejection of Lisbon remains to be seen, but it's not unlikely with the mood in the country at the moment.

The bigger problem for Ireland is that even if an election were called in the morning, who would we replace them with? FG? Enda Kenny might sound good on RTE soundbites, but the man has no charisma and couldn't win an election that was theirs for the taking last time. Plus, the same old story of only being interested in their own (in their case mostly rural) agenda would be an issue.

The Greens? I think we can all agree that they have done enough damage in the few policies FF let them bring in - between the two of them they decimated the motor trade in under 6 months, and ultimately PC-friendly enviornmental sentiment is nice when you can afford it, but we're a tad beyond that now.

So Labour then? Well they won't get in on their own anyway, but maybe in coalition with FG they might achieve something - the best option of a bad selection I suppose.

And that then leads me back to the heart of the problem. Until we are a people can move beyond rural/local politics and this selfish attitude of only looking out for ourselves and getting one over on "the man" that's so prevalent in all corners of our society, then we will never be able to progress as a nation and continue to whinge impotently amongst ourselves in pubs and offices, while our political "leaders" continue to make fools out of us at our (financial and otherwise) expense!!

Pride Fighter

I believe Cowen wants to help us. I just think his political ideology as being head of a large, corrupt right wing party is not the solution. I have genuine human sympathy for him as he is going to lead his party to the biggest election collapse in Irish political history.

Poor Brian.

_Kaiser_

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I believe Cowen wants to help us. I just think his political ideology as being head of a large, corrupt right wing party is not the solution. I have genuine human sympathy for him as he is going to lead his party to the biggest election collapse in Irish political history.

Poor Brian.

Well you do have a point there. It's not his fault that Bertie abandoned ship just before things completely fell apart (and is subsequently hailed as some sort of hero in some quarters), but he was the finance minister during that time and he did accept the job so ultimately the buck stops with him.

Again, as I said above, this refusal of politicians to accept any potential responsibility for anything (negative - any good news they're climbing all over each other to accept the credit for) is one of the fundamental problems with this country.

Darragh29

eoinbn wrote: »

Lets be fair. If the parties did that needs to be done the people wouldn't accept it.

I'd accept it, but I refuse to listen to a party that has brought us into this situation. This is like being asked to listen to a pep talk from Sean Fitzpatrick, and having to listen to him saying that the people below him are responsible for this disaster we are in. The buck doesn't stop with Fitzpatrick or the Financial Regulator, nobody elected them to manage the country and the economy in a way that didn't result in its near ruination.

It stops with the government, they were elected for the last 15 odd years to look after and protect the common good on behalf of us all and they have made a complete and utter b*lls of the this and cannot be trusted now and the whole lot of them have to do.

Brian you mean well but you cannot be trusted and neither can the people in your party, it's time to call a general election, and time for you and your party to go...

Darragh29

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I believe Cowen wants to help us. I just think his political ideology as being head of a large, corrupt right wing party is not the solution. I have genuine human sympathy for him as he is going to lead his party to the biggest election collapse in Irish political history.

Poor Brian.

I checked out your facebook sig. I could vote for Eamon Gilmore only I wouldn't vote for a party that gives a podium to a useless mouthpiece like Ivana Bacik and I'd have major concerns now voting for a party that has close ties to the public sector unions and vested interest organisations...

Pride Fighter

Darragh29 wrote: »

I checked out your facebook sig. I could vote for Eamon Gilmore only I wouldn't vote for a party that gives a podium to a useless mouthpiece like Ivana Bacik and I'd have major concerns now voting for a party that has close ties to the public sector unions and vested interest organisations...

Bacik is no longer in the Labour party thank christ. She is an independent.

Pride Fighter

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Well you do have a point there. It's not his fault that Bertie abandoned ship just before things completely fell apart (and is subsequently hailed as some sort of hero in some quarters), but he was the finance minister during that time and he did accept the job so ultimately the buck stops with him.

It was not entirely Cowens fault. McCreevy bloated the public service workforce by tens of thousands and as a result should shoulder a good chunk of the blame. Cowen did oversee the property bubble and its subsequent collapse. Both are equally to blame for the mess we are in.

Darragh29

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Bacik is no longer in the Labour party thank christ. She is an independent.

What happened there???

Pride Fighter

Darragh29 wrote: »

What happened there???

I think she just did to better her chances to get elected a Senator for Trinity College.

Darragh29

I'm not fully convinced on Eamon Gilmore. I'd give Lord Lucan a vote in the morning just to get rid of this hopeless deluded government. I gave the Green's a first preference vote on the last occasion for change and by Jesus, never again in my life will I give them a vote...

Sully

nesf wrote: »

The regulatory thing was good and was so badly needed. They needed to make up their mind and bite the bullet and either decide to try and fix our present one or try to form a whole new system. They've chosen the better of the two options given international experiences in this.

Well, lets be fair. The polls are getting worse and worse. The latest saying there not happy with how the banks are being dealt with. He had to react somehow!

I thin his speach wasnt good enough. It just seemed like a pre-election speach. Promises to do this that and the other - which got them into government in the first place. But most of the promises are failed promises so while the idea sounds good until its acted on quickly (you can pretend to bite the bullet) and the promises are put into place then his speach is worthless.

Did I hear correctly at some stage Cowen saying that things are not as bad and we can get out of the problem quicker? It would seem that a lot of reports indicate otherwise.

joolsveer

Can Labour convince the electorate that they will not support FF after the next general election? If not are FG the only alternative to FF?

yoshytoshy

I keep reading the title of this thread ,
"The brian cowen first aid speech thread"

The whole thing seemed very academic and patronising.

irish_bob

Pride Fighter wrote: »

It was not entirely Cowens fault. McCreevy bloated the public service workforce by tens of thousands and as a result should shoulder a good chunk of the blame. Cowen did oversee the property bubble and its subsequent collapse. Both are equally to blame for the mess we are in.

the politician who is most to blame is one bartholemew aherne , bertie was the gift that kept on giving to unions , the previous taoiseach saw only one thing when he sat down with david begg and co

votes

RealityCheck

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm not fully convinced on Eamon Gilmore. I'd give Lord Lucan a vote in the morning just to get rid of this hopeless deluded government. I gave the Green's a first preference vote on the last occasion for change and by Jesus, never again in my life will I give them a vote...

Im not convinced the Labour Party have any substance to all their talk. It is impossible to know how they would do if they make Government. I really cannot see how they have any better an idea of getting out of this mess. At this stage im begining to lose faith in all of the mainstream parties.

Hillel

irish_bob wrote: »

the politician who is most to blame is one bartholemew aherne , bertie was the gift that kept on giving to unions , the previous taoiseach saw only one thing when he sat down with david begg and co

votes

Bertie was setting himself up for the international lecture circuit, to be followed by a lengthly sojurn in the Park. Brian must shoulder some of the blame, however. He was minister for finance, wasn't he?

turgon

Brian Cowen wrote:

I first entered Dail Eireann 25 years ago. In that time, I have been privileged to witness the transformation of our country. I have seen us achieve full employment, become a modern and confident Republic, and resolve the conflict in the North.

So they have raped us all in the ass, and now they try and bring up how they solved the North to make themselves look good?

Brian Cowen wrote:

There is little return however, in wasting anger slamming the banks. The Fraud Squad and the Director of Corporate Enforcement will look after that. They have my full support.

So basically passing the buck. Yes, I accept **** happened and even I secretly know I could have partially stopped it, and even though Im the leader of the country, its not my responsibility. Where does the buck stop Biffo?

Brian Cowen wrote:

In the weeks ahead, I will introduce new standards of banking regulation and new standards of corporate governance...
This will build on best international practice similar to the Canadian model.

It a bit late for that, isnt it?

Brian Cowen wrote:

When we as a Government, ask you the people for taxes, I am aware that you deserve efficiency and best value for money.

Are you taking the biscuit? Brian Cowen, leader of FF, talking about efficiency and value for money? Get off it Brian, who do you think your fooling? Your government has been the definition of inefficiency throughout your whole governance.

Brian Cowen wrote:

Unfortunately, we are not a thriving economy for now, and we need to adapt our tax system to fit our new circumstances.

In plain English: we used to have it good but we were thick eejits so we never actually prepared for the future.

Brian Cowen wrote:

My government is committed to doing all we can for people who find themselves out of work.

Like Rody Molloy? Oh I forgot, instead of putting €300,000 into Fas to provide for job seekers you just gave it to the previously mentioned sponger who blatantly took your money in a very nice golden handshake.

Brian Cowen wrote:

Services will suffer in the short term.

When we all thought FF services could get any worse.

Brian Cowen wrote:

Our good relationship with a renewed United States continues, and I look forward to meeting President Obama in March to celebrate that relationship.

I dont. Obama is a finely tuned statesman who inspired the confidence of millions around the globe through his smart attitude and willingness to make decisions. You, on the other hand, are a sorry excuse for a Prime Minister. Your time seems to be spent passing the buck onto the labyrinth of ministers, junior ministers, committees and state agencies you have created, rather than admitting that you fùcked up and failed to prepare for the bad times.

lostexpectation

i couldn't bare to listen to his speech, did he admit any part in the boom and bust policies?

sceptre

turgon wrote: »

It a bit late for that, isnt it?

It is. However, it can still be useful to close the stable door even after the horse has bolted if you hope to ever get another horse.

Not that I don't completely agree with your analysis of the speech.

eoinbn

RealityCheck wrote: »

Im not convinced the Labour Party have any substance to all their talk. It is impossible to know how they would do if they make Government. I really cannot see how they have any better an idea of getting out of this mess. At this stage im begining to lose faith in all of the mainstream parties.

If Labour were in power for the last ten years we would of been in a much better state than we are now as they are a party that is rich in talented compared to FF/FG. However I do agree that I don't see them proposing anything that can fix our current problems and I think the reason for that is quite simple- there is no solution. It's basically a case of wait to hit rock-bottom and rebuild and right now we are nowhere near rock-bottom.

So unlike the 80's lets not replace FF until we hit the bottom so that they take all the 'credit' that is due.

ART6

I didn't manage to hear all of BC's speech since I fell asleep at some point in it. But I do remember a remark about how "we" are spending more than "our" income, or something similar. Public spending has, therefore, to be cut and cut ruthlessly. What he and his cohorts have been saying is essentially "We will achieve that by cutting the health service hitting the sick, by cutting education budgets at the expense of children, by increasing taxes for those least able to afford them, by raiding the Pensions Reserve Fund to bail out those who have pensions worth millions at the expense of those common folk who might wish to retire sometime in the next fifty years."

What he has not said and didn't say was "I am going to abolish all of the 400 odd quangos, stop finding highly paid jobs in the public sector for my buddies and supporters of FF, and from now on will expect ministers to manage their departments prudently and competently in such a way that no unelected bodies will have any control over the state of Ireland in the future. Ministers who cannot do that will be returned to the back benches fast enough to make their eyes water."

If only!

Sir Oxman

ART6 wrote: »

I didn't manage to hear all of BC's speech since I fell asleep at some point in it. But I do remember a remark about how "we" are spending more than "our" income, or something similar. Public spending has, therefore, to be cut and cut ruthlessly. What he and his cohorts have been saying is essentially "We will achieve that by cutting the health service hitting the sick, by cutting education budgets at the expense of children, by increasing taxes for those least able to afford them, by raiding the Pensions Reserve Fund to bail out those who have pensions worth millions at the expense of those common folk who might wish to retire sometime in the next fifty years."

What he has not said and didn't say was "I am going to abolish all of the 400 odd quangos, stop finding highly paid jobs in the public sector for my buddies and supporters of FF, and from now on will expect ministers to manage their departments prudently and competently in such a way that no unelected bodies will have any control over the state of Ireland in the future. Ministers who cannot do that will be returned to the back benches fast enough to make their eyes water."

If only!

If only indeed.

Darragh29

The whole thrust of his speech is to try to try to talk the country into moving past the events of recent weeks, in particular the loss of the countries credibility by way of what has unfolded in the banking sector.

He doesn't seem to have copped yet, that it is him and his party that people are furious with. There is this deliberate denial going on within Fianna Fail at he moment, that WE are furious with THEM, because if they were to not deny this anger and who it is actually being directed at, they would have to call a general election.

Cowen yesterday thinks he can make a single vague and extremely loose reference to the countless mistakes that Fianna Fail have made in terms of economic strategy over the last 15 years, by saying, "we don't always get it right", and then the whole country is going to agree with him and think, "ah sure that's grand, we'll just have to pay more tax!".

The guy is now deliberately burying his head in the sand as to the reality of the current mood of the Irish people, almost 90% of the electorate have no confidence in him. I'd love to see a poll asking how many people blame him and his political party for us being in this mess, I'd say it is more than 90% and then the reality of how people feel would be spelt out for him.

Every single person who stood in Citywest yesterday with Fianna Fail and supported this party that has proven that it is the biggest threat to the viability of the nation since the foundation of the state, is a traitor.