Copying Audio CD - Legal?

Johnboy1951

If I buy an audio CD and a blank CDR (on which is paid an entertainment levy), what is the legal position with the following ...
1. I copy the original to the CDR

2. I give someone a present of the burned CDR

or

3. I sell someone the CDR

#3 being the most obvious I would ask this ....... when I purchased the original I paid for the CD, the packaging including the cover inserts, and a copyright payment on its content. That apparently means I can use the media and its content legally.
In the case of the CDR, I am not copying the cover inserts or anything but the content. The CDR price includes a copyright payment for any works I might place on it .... or that is my understanding of the levy. So I copy the contents to the CDR and sell it to someone.
I have sold a piece of media which I owned and it contained works for which I have paid a copyright levy. Have I broken some law?

This is my first post here so please be kind ... I apologise in advance if this post is inappropriate.

I am looking for members opinions rather than necessarily proper legal opinion ..... the info is for my own thoughts and reasoning and not for any other 'action' or event.

Thank you.

Run_to_da_hills

You are only technically allowed to make one back up copy of your original cd, Giving this copy to another person is Illegal because the person that you gave it to dose not have the original. Selling it is even worse because you would be profiting out of counterfeit material.

Johnboy1951

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You are only technically allowed to make one back up copy of your original cd, Giving this copy to another person is Illegal because the person that you gave it to dose not have the original. Selling it is even worse because you would be profiting out of counterfeit material.

Thank you for the reply.
I guess the problem I have is getting my head around the counterfeiting bit ...... I am only duplicating the content, and have paid a copyright fee (within the CD price) so I do not quite get how duplicating the 'works'/content is counterfeiting/illegal. It is indeed duplication ..... but with a copyright fee paid to allow that.
I do hope you can see where my confusion lies ..... I just cannot see the illegality ..... yet.

Regards.

Kensington

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Thank you for the reply.
I guess the problem I have is getting my head around the counterfeiting bit ...... I am only duplicating the content, and have paid a copyright fee (within the CD price) so I do not quite get how duplicating the 'works'/content is counterfeiting/illegal. It is indeed duplication ..... but with a copyright fee paid to allow that.
I do hope you can see where my confusion lies ..... I just cannot see the illegality ..... yet.

Regards.

I don't think any blank media sold here has such a levy. Regardless, when you buy a retail cd, you do not own the copyright to its content hence you are not entitled to copy it without permission. Doing so breaks copyright law. Also selling it is even worse as mentioned above.

aidan_walsh

You are not buying the content, you are buying a license to use the content along with a copy of it. You do not own the content of the disc, and therefore have no right to duplicate or resell it.

Johnboy1951

The information I have is that Ireland does impose a levy on such media and also on devices such as MP3 players and printers etc, and has imposed such a levy since cassette tapes were all the rage. There are a couple of countries in the EU which do not apply such a levy, but the info I have would indicate that Ireland is not one of those. If you find info to the contrary I would be most appreciative, thanks.

EDIT .. insert links
http://www.rte.ie/business/2008/0214/music.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/ontherecord/2008/05/30/mccreevys-simple-wish-for-eu-wide-copyright-deal/

There seems to be confusion about what I meant (probably due to my confusion, sorry) ....

I did not mean to imply that I was buying the content of the original CD. The price of the original CD includes an amount that is a copyright payment (as I understand it). The rest of the price is for production, manufacture and distribution costs of the media.
When I buy a blank CD, I am paying a levy (read a copyright payment) within the price of the blank. That levy is to reimburse copyright holders for what copyrighted content I burn to the CD.
So when I burn such a CD, say copy an audio CD original, I am using my media and my production facility etc and the only other payment necessary is a copyright payment, which I have already paid .... the levy on the blank CD price.

There is no question of change of "ownership" of the content. There is only a copyright payment to use the content .... which I have already paid.

If this logic is sound, then I can dispose of my burned CD as I wish. There is no copyright infringement, as the copyright payment is already made. I have though avoided the production and distribution charges of an original audio CD, which would go in its entirety to whatever company might release the original CD.

I have not "stolen" anything. I have not cheated anyone of any of their dues. I am at a loss to see where I might have done anything illegal.

Should you purchase such a CD from me, you have purchased the media only, and the right through the copyright payment, to play the content. So I do not see where you could have done anything illegal either.

So far as I am aware it is not illegal to copy any copyrighted material, provided a copyright payment is made to the copyright holder.

I may indeed be mistaken, which is why I asked the question here.

Thanks for reading and replying.

Regards.

seanybiker

if that was the case then one person on boards could buy a cd and make copies of it for everyone else on here.

Johnboy1951

OK, my apologies to the poster who mentioned that Ireland does not impose levies on media.

I have found a document which would indicate that this is correct.
http://circa.europa.eu/Public/irc/markt/markt_consultations/library?l=/copyright_neighbouring/copyright_reform/09_ireland&vm=detailed&sb=Title

The answer to question 10 of the pdf linked to in the above states clearly that Ireland does not impose such levies.

I apologise again for my misunderstanding.

I wonder how this plays out in other countries which do apply such levies ......... ?

Thanks you for your attention.

Regards.

EDIT ...... an interesting document on the subject, including some surprising (to me) figures
http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/copyright/docs/levy_reform/stakeholder_consultation_en.pdf

Johnboy1951

seanybiker wrote: »

if that was the case then one person on boards could buy a cd and make copies of it for everyone else on here.

Well if the artist is compensated why not? (which I now discover is not the case in Ireland)
Who else should be compensated?

blubloblu

The artist is only compensated once. Making €2 out of say 1000 copies is a raw deal.
I'm pretty sure you can re-sell the original CD, so long as you destroy any copies you've made for yourself

DamagedTrax

that levy is government imposed and not a "copyright payment" to artists. it gets distributed to IMRO (grr..) and various cultural events so artists never see a penny of it. its purely another way of screwing artists and independent labels while making the government look like they care about "the arts" (rant over).

basically when you buy a cd or digital download you are buying 2 licences. the extra one is for your own personal back-up and legally speaking should be destroyed if you decided to sell the original onto someone else.

Johnboy1951

According to the links I posted above, Ireland does not impose a levy, which in other countries is collected by and administered by, a group representing the artists. If their own group do not pay them the collected levies then who would? One of the documents also shows how many millions are collected by such levies.

Neither, from what I understood of the document, is their any provision in Irish law which would allow me to make a copy of a purchased CD for my own use. It apparently would be against the law to do so.

The artist is only compensated once. Making €2 out of say 1000 copies is a raw deal.
I'm pretty sure you can re-sell the original CD, so long as you destroy any copies you've made for yourself

I am unsure what €2 out of 1,000 copies refers to ..... original CDs or copies on blank CDRs?

In any case I was not so much interested in the amount of any payments made but the fact that they are made in most EU countries , on blank media and devices such as MP3 players.

Regards.

sceptre

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Neither, from what I understood of the document, is their any provision in Irish law which would allow me to make a copy of a purchased CD for my own use. It apparently would be against the law to do so.

You're correct. This particular fair use provision, which is in place in some other countries doesn't legally exist in Ireland.

Pines

Just to correct an error that has appeared a couple of times in this thread. You have no right under Irish copyright law to make a back-up copy of a music CD. You should have, but you don't.

Any copy made without permission is an infringement of copyright. You scratch your CD, or you lose it, then you have to buy another copy.