Liverpool squad/keeper/spending comparison thread [read post #161]

monkey9

Edit

flahavaj

jasonorr wrote: »

Sure the season they signed Nani, Anderson and Hargreaves almost cancels out Ronaldo's fee!

Actually, maybe not almost but Valencia, Berbatov, Carrick, Rooney and those three among others

You're basically proiving yourself wrong here.

Anyway, I think The Muppet is the man you need to be arguing with, not me, he's itching to tear strips off you by the looks of it.

Good luck. You'll need it.:P

L'prof

flahavaj wrote: »

You're basically proiving yourself wrong here.

Anyway, I think The Muppet is the man you need to be arguing with, not me, he's itching to tear strips off you by the looks of it.

Good luck. You'll need it.:P

I'm not really, seriously doubt it's closer to his figure than mine. Will I bother wasting more of my time to prove him wrong? Not a chance, I have better things to be doing. If he'd like to prove himself right, off with him!

flahavaj

jasonorr wrote: »

I'm not really, seriously doubt it's closer to his figure than mine. Will I bother wasting more of my time to prove him wrong? Not a chance, I have better things to be doing. If he'd like to prove himself right, off with him!

Classic backtracking.:pac:

whatawaster

monkey9 wrote: »

Premier Soccer Sunday on RTE2 at 9pm
MOTD2 on BBC2 at 10pm.

Get the popcorn!!!

Whelan's ringing in sick as we speak

L'prof

flahavaj wrote: »

Classic backtracking.:pac:

Trying to entice another response?

The Muppet

jasonorr wrote: »

I'm not really, seriously doubt it's closer to his figure than mine. Will I bother wasting more of my time to prove him wrong? Not a chance, I have better things to be doing. If he'd like to prove himself right, off with him!

Couldn't be bothered either Jasonorr but here's a hint for you if you do decide to pursue it. Ronaldo was not the only player sold by Man UTD over the last six years.

Stargate

monkey9 wrote: »

Premier Soccer Sunday on RTE2 at 9pm
MOTD2 on BBC2 at 10pm.

Get the popcorn!!!

Tnx monkey , looking forward to it !!!

rossie1977

jasonorr wrote: »

He's not ****é, but he does overspend...so does Ferguson.

not sure i agree there, so far most of the players rafa has bought went for higher prices than he bought them for, e.g sissoko, alonso, crouch, bellamy, carson

i would bet the likes of agger, benni, torres, ngog, masch, reina are worth far more today than the sums rafa bought them for

same with ferguson and wengers signings, wenger has a great eye for unknown or misused talent

flahavaj

jasonorr wrote: »

Trying to entice another response?

Naw, just telling it as it is mate.

Though if you thought I was trying to do that, then actually responding was probably the last thing you should have done.

L'prof

The Muppet wrote: »

Couldn't be bothered either Jasonorr but here's a hint for you if you do decide to pursue it. Ronaldo was not the only player sold by Man UTD over the last six years.

Really? I'm shocked! I thought their squad was at least 100 strong!

flahavaj wrote: »

Naw, just telling it as it is mate.

Though if you thought I was trying to do that, then actually responding was probably the last thing you should have done.

I responded, but not in the manner you wanted.

The Muppet

jasonorr wrote: »

Really? I'm shocked! I thought their squad was at least 100 strong!

No Problem Jasonorr , quoting imaginary figures is nothing new here.

flahavaj

jasonorr wrote: »

I responded, but not in the manner you wanted.

In fairness if you'd just looked up the proper figures and enlightened yourself you'd be done and dusted by now, instead of wasting your time arguing with me.;)

L'prof

The Muppet wrote: »

No Problem Jasonorr , quoting imaginary figures is nothing new here.

Yours may be just as "imaginary" (and seem to be) for all we know. Either way, I don't care enough about the subject to carry on with this tit for tat.

flahavaj wrote: »

In fairness if you'd just looked up the proper figures and enlightened yourself you'd be done and dusted by now, instead of wasting your time arguing with me.;)

I have, 04/05 - present. I can't see how they add up to Muppet's amount.

The Muppet

jasonorr wrote: »

I have, 04/05 - present. I can't see how they add up to Muppet's amount.

Maybe I'm wrong, post the figures and I'll have a look.

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

New money: over the last three years they gave him £47 million (£40 million , £6 million and 1 Million) I think a good manager should be able to move a club forward with that level of investment

breakdown the figures for me there so i can prove to you AGAIN which ones are wrong AGAIN

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

breakdown the figures for me there so i can prove to you AGAIN which ones are wrong AGAIN

Thats a bit sneaky all, heres my reply from the other thread.

The Muppet wrote: »

Go on then list his purchases and sales for the last three seasons with fees and prove my figures wrong. Bet you don't.

Mr Alan

sneaky? i asked you to list the buys 40 mins before you asked me too :rolleyes:

The Muppet

Sneaky because that discussion was on another thread.

Here you go .


Source lfchistory.net so you can't accuse of Bias.

Players sold
Player To Fee Date
Florent S.-Pongolle Recreativo de Huelva £2,700,000 04.05.2007
Daniele Padelli Sampdoria Returns from loan 08.06.2007
Danny O' Donnell Crewe £100,000 13.06.2007
Jerzy Dudek Real Madrid Free* 01.07.2007
Boudewijn Zenden Marseille Free* 01.07.2007
Robbie Fowler Cardiff Free* 01.07.2007
Luis Garcia Atletico Madrid £4,000,000 03.07.2007
Djibril Cissé Marseille £6,000,000 09.07.2007
Craig Bellamy West Ham £7,500,000 10.07.2007
Mark Gonzalez Real Betis £3,500,000 17.07.2007
Gabriel Paletta Boca Juniors £1,200,000 26.08.2007
Chris Kirkland Wigan Ath. £3,500,000 27.10.2007
James Smith Stockport Cou. Free 28.12.2007
Mohamed Sissoko Juventus £8,200,000 28.01.2008
Lee Peltier Yeovil Free* 31.01.2008
John Arne Riise AS Roma £4,000,000 01.07.2008
Harry Kewell Free Transfer Free 01.07.2008
Anthony Le Tallec Le Mans Undisclosed 02.07.2008
Peter Crouch Portsmouth £11,000,000 11.07.2008
Danny Guthrie Newcastle £2,250,000 14.07.2008
Scott Carson WBA £3,250,000 18.07.2008
Steve Finnan Espanyol Undisclosed* 31.08.2008
Robbie Keane Tottenham £16,000,000 02.02.2009
Jack Hobbs Leicester Undisclosed 24.04.2009
Astrit Ajdarevic Leicester Free 30.06.2009
Paul Anderson Nottm For £250,000 30.06.2009
Jermaine Pennant Real Zaragoza Free* 01.07.2009
Miki Roque Unknown Free 01.07.2009
Sebastian Leto Panathinaikos £3,000,000 01.07.2009
Álvaro Arbeloa Real Madrid £3,500,000 30.07.2009
Xabi Alonso Real Madrid £30,000,000 05.08.2009

£109,950,000

Players purchased

Player From Fee Date
Lucas Leiva Gremio £5,000,000 11.05.2007
Krisztián Németh MTK Hungaria Undisclosed 25.05.2007
Mikel San José Domí nguez Athletic Bilbao £270,000 28.06.2007
Sebastian Leto Club Atlético L anús £1,800,000 01.07.2007
Fernando Torres Atletico Madrid £20,200,000 04.07.2007
Andriy Voronin Leverkusen Free* 06.07.2007
Yossi Benayoun West Ham £5,000,000 12.07.2007
Ryan Babel Ajax £11,500,000 13.07.2007
Charles Itandje Lens Undisclosed 09.08.2007
Emiliano Insúa Boca Juniors £1,300,000 26.08.2007
Martin Skrtel Zenit St Peters burg £6,500,000 11.01.2008
Javier Mascherano Media Sports I nvestment £18,600,000 29.02.2008
Philipp Degen Dortmund Free* 03.07.2008
Andrea Dossena Udinese £7,000,000 04.07.2008
Diego Cavalieri Palmeiras £3,500,000 11.07.2008
David N'gog Paris St Germ ain £1,500,000 24.07.2008
Robbie Keane Tottenham £19,000,000 28.07.2008
Albert Riera Espanyol £8,000,000 31.08.2008
Glen Johnson Portsmouth £17,500,000 26.06.2009
Alberto Aquilani AS Roma £17,100,000 07.08.2009
Sotirios Kyrgiakos AEK Athens £2,000,000 21.08.2009
Daniel Ayala Sevilla £160,000 17.09.2009

Purchases £145,930,000
Sales £109,950,000
New money £35,980,000





£16 miilion for keane is wrong they got £12 million according to the bbc and Torres was £26 million £20 million plus garcia adding £11 million bringing it up tp the £45 million I stated

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...0252-19378735/



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/foot...ur/7861523.stm

Fromvert

LOL says Crouch was sold for £1.1m and Keane for £1.6m

Mr Alan

also, you're not really telling the full story of the yanks spending since they've been at Anfield.

they arrived when we were spending 15m a year net with moores, they were meant to have big wallets to allow us to build a title winning team, to push us onto the next level, instead we have one decent year of spending after we had a great CL campaign bringing in a load of cash, the two years since have been negative or near negative spending.

i'm done discussing transfers for the time being, everything i could say has been said before.

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

also, you're not really telling the full story of the yanks spending since they've been at Anfield.

they arrived when we were spending 15m a year net with moores, they were meant to have big wallets to allow us to build a title winning team, to push us onto the next level, instead we have one decent year of spending after we had a great CL campaign bringing in a load of cash, the two years since have been negative or near negative spending.

i'm done discussing transfers for the time being, everything i could say has been said before.

Come on AL you said figures on my list was imagainary. which ones on the list do you contest? I have given links for the two I disagree with.


Rectified the error re crouch and Keane.

£16 miilion for keane is wrong they got £12 million according to the bbc and Torres was 26 million 20 million plus garcia bringing it up tp the 45 million I stated

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2007/06/29/reds-on-brink-of-torres-signing-100252-19378735/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/t/tottenham_hotspur/7861523.stm

Mr Alan

Crouch or Keane?

or couple of the undisclosed where there would have been money recd.

as i said though, i'm no longer talking about this transfer lark, any questions you could wanna ask, do a search for cause i have no doubt answered them already.

night.

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

Crouch or Keane?

or couple of the undisclosed where there would have been money recd.

as i said though, i'm no longer talking about this transfer lark, any questions you could wanna ask, do a search for cause i have no doubt answered them already.

night.

There are undisclosed fees in the purchased section too.

Good night Al

Pro. F

The Muppet wrote: »

You should read the thread again as you are wrong on a number of points there. As I have told you once before I used the figures MR Al posted as the current cost of the squad

No you didn't. You used the figures Al posted as the current value of the assets.

The Muppet wrote: »

Therefor he has spent £230 Million and is left with assets of £150 million.

You see?
COST
ASSET
Two different words. Two different meanings.

The Muppet wrote: »

I asked a question comparing Mr Als figures with the amount of Money Rafa has spent on Transfers. Thats what this discussion is about as far as I'm concerned.

Well if that's what you wanted to discuss, then that's simple.
The discrepancy between the cost of the players now in the squad and the total amount of money Rafa has spent is accounted for by the players that have left the squad.

Pro. F

The Muppet wrote: »

Come on AL you said figures on my list was imagainary. which ones on the list do you contest? I have given links for the two I disagree with.


Rectified the error re crouch and Keane.

£16 miilion for keane is wrong they got £12 million according to the bbc and Torres was 26 million 20 million plus garcia bringing it up tp the 45 million I stated

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2007/06/29/reds-on-brink-of-torres-signing-100252-19378735/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/t/tottenham_hotspur/7861523.stm

lol at the way you just edited in all that new info above Al's response to your question so it makes it look like Al didn't read your post. That's cheap.

Ps: also lol that you say this

The Muppet wrote: »

Source lfchistory.net so you can't accuse of Bias.

And then change the figures to suit your argument, using a different source that has previously been strongly contested on this thread.

The Muppet

Pro. F wrote: »

lol at the way you just edited in all that new info above Al's response to your question so it makes it look like Al didn't read your post. That's cheap.

Ps: also lol that you say this And then change the figures to suit your argument, using a different source that has previously been strongly contested on this thread.

Al and myself were on at the same time , I edited the post because I had to rectify the errors in the Initial Post. I then added in an explaination for the reasoning behind my numbers. I think AL had already replied to the comments I added in his post 4 posts up from this so he was aware of the changes .I certainly wasn't trying to be underhand. Did you not do the same thing with your post, ie edit it half an hour after you first posted it?

Most figures re Liverpools spending is strongly contested here, is that supposed to mean something? The source above are from the BBC and the Liverpool Echo , they are not exactly wiki are they?

Pro. F

The Muppet wrote: »

Al and myself were on at the same time , I edited the post because I had to rectify the errors in the Initial Post. I then added in an explaination for the reasoning behind my numbers. I think AL had already replied to the comments I added in his post 4 posts up from this so he was aware of the changes .I certainly wasn't trying to be underhand. Did you not do the same thing with your post, ie edit it half an hour after you first posted it?

My edit to my post wasn't changing something that somebody had already responded to (nobody else had even posted by then anyway) so it didn't effect the discussion. If you say you weren't trying to change your post to
make Al's post look foolish then that's fair enough. The posts read out of order now since the edit but if it was an honest mistake then that's fair enough.

The Muppet wrote: »

Most figures re Liverpools spending is strongly contested here, is that supposed to mean something?

Well i think it's quite ironic that you said at the begining of the post that you used lfc
history.net so you couldn't be accused of bias and then you changed the figures using a different source in order to prove your argument.

The Muppet wrote: »

The source above are from the BBC and the Liverpool Echo , they are not exactly wiki are they?

The links to your sources aren't working for me (i'm getting a 404 error) could you fix them?

If it's the same source that you used for the Torres £26m cost earlier in the thread then Mr. Alan has already shown how that was inaccurate.

Mr Alan

Promise this is my last post on the matter!

Torres cost 20m.

There is no doubt.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/tags/fernando-torres/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/6239286.stm

the sources you yourself are saying are the best ones have quoted the fee at 20m since after the deal was done officially. (links above)

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

Promise this is my last post on the matter!

Torres cost 20m.

There is no doubt.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/tags/fernando-torres/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/6239286.stm

the sources you yourself are saying are the best ones have quoted the fee at 20m since after the deal was done officially. (links above)

Sorry, but words like "believed to be" and "around" quoted from both your links wouldn't convince me that there is no doubt that he cost £20m.

Edit: No matter whet ye paid for him, he was a bargain. Who cares after that?

JPA

This is the worst thread ever. I don't even know what the arguments are and no opinions are going to change judging by the posts.

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

Promise this is my last post on the matter!

Torres cost 20m.

There is no doubt.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/tags/fernando-torres/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/6239286.stm

the sources you yourself are saying are the best ones have quoted the fee at 20m since after the deal was done officially. (links above)

We've already been through this Rafa himself said it was 20 million plus garcia. Garcia cost £6 million , anyone can work it out from there. Thats where the £20 million comes from.

How much did he cost?

Whenever we talk about the deal for Torres with Atlético Madrid we always include Luis GarcÍa in the price. The total cost of the operation is around £20 million.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/archivedirs/news/2008/mar/31/N159367080331-1327.htm

Lets not get bogged down on that valuation as it only slightly effects the overall picture.

BTW I apologies if you though my editing of my posts last night was sneaky, That was not my intention, I was just editing out the errors and explaining how I reached the figures I used.

The Muppet

Pro. F wrote: »

The links to your sources aren't working for me (i'm getting a 404 error) could you fix them?

Both links are working fine for me.

If you say you weren't trying to change your post to
make Al's post look foolish then that's fair enough.

That's not my style.

redzerdrog

torres and garcia deal were seperate but there is no piont trying to argue with muppets like you as over and over again people have proved your points to be nonsence yet you come back time and again with more bull**** figures just to try make your point

pun was intended

The Muppet

redzerdrog wrote: »

torres and garcia deal were seperate but there is no piont trying to argue with muppets like you as over and over again people have proved your points to be nonsence yet you come back time and again with more bull**** figures just to try make your point

pun was intended

Not according to Rafa, I'd imagine he knows a little more on the subject than we do.

How much did he cost?

Whenever we talk about the deal for Torres with Atlético Madrid we always include Luis GarcÍa in the price. The total cost of the operation is around £20 million.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/archi...80331-1327.htm

very clever

Mr Alan

Bumpity Bump.

Rafa has outraged some Utd fans again, this thread might come in handy.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

Bumpity Bump.

Rafa has outraged some Utd fans again, this thread might come in handy.

well if he didn't keep banging on about how poor liverpool are and how hard he has it, when it has been shown Liverpool's spending isn't that far off Uniteds for example, then maybe people wouldn't get annoyed.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

Bumpity Bump.

Rafa has outraged some Utd fans again, this thread might come in handy.

How so?

Mr Alan

by saying that he has had to take chances on free transfers & players around the 2m mark. some Utd fans are very sensitive.

and mitch, since the americans have come in, we are skint skint skint. this is not an untruth.

comparing Rafa to the greatest manager in PL history who has a title winning team in place & the luxury of a set up he has fine tuned over a couple of decades is hardly fair :rolleyes:

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

Bumpity Bump.

Rafa has outraged some Utd fans again, this thread might come in handy.

How so AL, you have since accpeted that my figures are accurate enough and used them in some of your own posts on the subject?

Mr Alan wrote: »

we dont agree about em all, but they're not a million miles away so **** it, i'm too lazy to go looking!

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

by saying that he has had to take chances on free transfers & players around the 2m mark. some Utd fans are very sensitive.

and mitch, since the americans have come in, we are skint skint skint. this is not an untruth.

comparing Rafa to the greatest manager in PL history who has a title winning team in place & the luxury of a set up he has fine tuned over a couple of decades is hardly fair :rolleyes:

Since the Americans have come in United have been just as skint.

As for having a title winning side - the United side of 5 years ago was nothing compared to what Fergie rebuilt in the last 5 years. Fortune, Bellion, Djemba Djemba, Kleberson, Miller etc - United have rebuilt quite heavily in the time Rafa has been at Liverpool, so it is not like Fergie has only tweaked the team each season with a single player.

As PHB pointed out previously - in the 5 years, both clubs have bought Keepers, right backs, left backs, centre backs, central midfielders, wingers and strikers.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

by saying that he has had to take chances on free transfers & players around the 2m mark. some Utd fans are very sensitive.

and mitch, since the americans have come in, we are skint skint skint. this is not an untruth.

comparing Rafa to the greatest manager in PL history who has a title winning team in place & the luxury of a set up he has fine tuned over a couple of decades is hardly fair :rolleyes:

What? I was fairly sure that this season was the only one in which they hadn't spent a decent amount of money?

Mitch Connor

jasonorr wrote: »

What? I was fairly sure that this season was the only one in which they hadn't spent a decent amount of money?

And still had a much, much higher net spend than United:D

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

by saying that he has had to take chances on free transfers & players around the 2m mark. some Utd fans are very sensitive.

and mitch, since the americans have come in, we are skint skint skint. this is not an untruth.

comparing Rafa to the greatest manager in PL history who has a title winning team in place & the luxury of a set up he has fine tuned over a couple of decades is hardly fair :rolleyes:

Rafa's spinning again, all mangers buy cheep players and sign frees. It's not the full story.

Fergie had far from a title winning team in place when Rafa took over, United had it weakest squad since the prem began at that time. It's perfectly fair to compare them over the last 5/6 seasons

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

How so AL, you have since accpeted that my figures are accurate enough and used them in some of your own posts on the subject?

muppet, using your own figures in the last 2 seasons, whats Rafas net spend? 5m? less? is that enough?

its not.

the fifth most expensive squad. the fifth highest wage bill. financially, we are falling behind in a big way. the americans were meant to move us forward in that sense, they haven't. they've moved us backwards.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Since the Americans have come in United have been just as skint.

As for having a title winning side - the United side of 5 years ago was nothing compared to what Fergie rebuilt in the last 5 years. Fortune, Bellion, Djemba Djemba, Kleberson, Miller etc - United have rebuilt quite heavily in the time Rafa has been at Liverpool, so it is not like Fergie has only tweaked the team each season with a single player.

As PHB pointed out previously - in the 5 years, both clubs have bought Keepers, right backs, left backs, centre backs, central midfielders, wingers and strikers.

i agree Utd are skint.

but as i said, why are you judging Rafa against a manager who is at the club over 20 yrs, the most succesful in PL history, who has perfected the running of his club after 20 yrs & has 30m more than Liverpool to spend on wages each year?

hardly fair.

in fact the very fact that Rafa came so close to winning the league last year is testament to the good work he is doing.

Mr Alan

jasonorr wrote: »

What? I was fairly sure that this season was the only one in which they hadn't spent a decent amount of money?

nah it was the same last year. small profit-couple of mill spend, depending on figures.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

nah it was the same last year. small profit-couple of mill spend, depending on figures.

But they've been there since October 2006? Was it not last year that ye paid for Mascherano? So that would probably be yer net spend for last year then.

Mr Alan

not sure, and no offence mate, but i can't be arsed looking-up to my eyes in work & quite frankly, sick of talking about transfers/money spent/wages/number of players etc etc.

its all in this thread though if you wanna read back through it.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

not sure, and no offence mate, but i can't be arsed looking-up to my eyes in work & quite frankly, sick of talking about transfers/money spent/wages/number of players etc etc.

its all in this thread though if you wanna read back through it.

I'm pretty sure that was last season anyway which would mean that this season is the only one since the takeover that ye haven't spent a decent amount of money.

EDIT: 29/2/08 ~£18.6m

Mr Alan

When discussing transfers, i've never really seen seasons viewed as being Jan-Jan. They've always been worked on the same time scale as the football season.