Charter Change Part Deux! The Poll!

Dodgykeeper

Do you agree with the recent charter change!

Any requests for photographers to do work should be posted on adverts.ie from here on out. This is particularly the case for wedding related work.

Dragan

Adverts.ie is there as the specific catch all for people who would like to either advertise or post their requirements for any service.

I can't see any grounds for us to claim an exemption.

Calina

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

Do you agree with the recent charter change!

Any requests for photographers to do work should be posted on adverts.ie from here on out. This is particularly the case for wedding related work.

Actually, the charter itself doesn't specify weddings. The post advising you of the charter update does, however, and for good reason.

AnCatDubh

Calina wrote: »

Actually, the charter itself doesn't specify weddings. The post advising you of the charter update does, however, and for good reason.

I'm not sure if Dodgykeeper read my reply to him but that was pointed out.

Dodgykeeper

Mods and ex mods vote yes, users vote no, dont know why i bothered

Dragan

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

Mods and ex mods vote yes, users vote no, dont know why i bothered

The irony is, you are the only person here who instantly dismissed anyones opinion.

Must be a wonderful view from that horse.

Nisio

I voted yes, I think adverts is a better place for requesting a service.

Perhaps a discussion about who "Owns" the charter and how it's changed would be useful

(sorry for the use of the word "Owns" in a non work situation!)

Oisin

Dodgykeeper

Dragan wrote: »

The irony is, you are the only person here who instantly dismissed anyones opinion.

Must be a wonderful view from that horse.

I was joking hence the winkie, and I dont think I dismissed anyones opinion, I put this poll up as I wanted to see what the general users felt about the charter change.

I dont like horses, Borderfox loves them!

Calina

Okay.

I'm going to run this one past the higher powers that be in light of some of the feedback I've received on this.

paulkellypix

I personally thought this forum was to discuss the technical aspects of photography.

Yes to change!

Paul

nilhg

I voted yes, adverts is the place to do business, and I think the explanations in the other thread make perfect sense.

kjt

Oui!

Tactical

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

Mods and ex mods vote yes, users vote no, dont know why i bothered

I'm a user and not a mod or ex-mod and I voted yes.

Seems pretty simple to me.

One place to discuss photogrpahy and another to advertise a service. It doesn't present a problem to me. I'm happy to use the forum and respect and abide by the rules.

AnimalRights

I voted no.
A photography forum that can't take queries from people looking for photography services via PM is a joke tbh.

kensutz

I can see this ending up in another mass feedback thread tbh :rolleyes:

Calina

Ken i have already stated that this matter is being put in the hands of the powers above the level of the photography mods.

I am sure the vast majority of regular users would actually wait for feedback down that line.

Dragan

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

I was joking hence the winkie, and I dont think I dismissed anyones opinion, I put this poll up as I wanted to see what the general users felt about the charter change.

I dont like horses, Borderfox loves them!

If a bit of time and effort from both Mods and Users was put into Adverts.ie from a photography standpoint, then i believe we would get a lot more people looking for photography services, as opposed to the very occassional threads that we get at the moment.

It could be a move that benefits those who get paid/unpaid work through boards as oppossed to a hindrance.

My voting yes had nothing to do with my being a former Mod, as you erroneously implied.

Calina

Points of information:

1) the photography related areas on adverts.ie relate to Photography Equipment for Sale and Photography Equipment wanted.

2) Those areas are not moderated by the boards.ie photography mods. I am also not asking that the photography boards on adverts.ie come under our remit - I want that to be clear. I think the separation is beneficial.

3) The suitable area in adverts.ie is probably services wanted.

Paulw

Tactical wrote: »

One place to discuss photogrpahy and another to advertise a service. I

People in here were NOT advertising services. Quite the opposite - people were coming here looking for advice, help and possible services from the photographers on boards.

Calina

You cannot, however, deny, that those requests frequently caused difficulties to arise, however.

I reiterate once more, I have requested a response from higher up. I think it would be helpful if people waited for that response.

Thank you.

CabanSail

I agree that people here have not been advertising their services directly. Any thread like that would have been closed. The problem has been the hostilities that have broken out when someone has been looking for a job to be done.

mikeanywhere

Calina wrote: »

3) The suitable area in adverts.ie is probably services wanted.

Totally hear ya but in reality when someone from the big bad world has a requirement for a tog for whatever reason, they will come to the photography section first - its logical (said Spock to Capt Kirk)!!

Calina

It's also logical that people selling photography equipment come here first but we send them over to adverts.ie all the same.

AnCatDubh

a redirect is likely to anyone who posts such a request explaining the deletion. thus with your notifications enabled those interested will get all opportunities of this nature = better for the photographer tbh.

Dodgykeeper

Is there any precendents for this in any of the other fora!

AnCatDubh

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

Is there any precendents for this in any of the other fora!

My understanding is that it is the general accepted protocol followed across the boards site.

Just Playing

AnimalRights wrote: »

I voted no.
A photography forum that can't take queries from people looking for photography services via PM is a joke tbh.

Paulw wrote: »

People in here were NOT advertising services. Quite the opposite - people were coming here looking for advice, help and possible services from the photographers on boards.

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

Is there any precendents for this in any of the other fora!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=160

Dodgykeeper

Just Playing wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=160

Can you explain?

Paulw

Just Playing wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=160

Errr ... what has web hosting got to do with photography and weddings?

AnCatDubh

Paulw wrote: »

Errr ... what has web hosting got to do with photography and weddings?

I think you need to take the remnants of that now defunct forum into consideration in their entirety. I think Devore's posts are probably the more relevant.

Paulw

I still don't see how it relates to photography.

AnCatDubh

Paulw wrote: »

I still don't see how it relates to photography.

I think if you read the posts in the context of commercial interactions whatever form they take, to me this is where the relevance is - in addition we throw into our forum's mix, some serious flame war history and litigation potential around such threads.

Calina

Paul,

in my view the link is not related to photography itself, but to problems which arise when the supply of a service becomes contentious. We have issues around recommendations and requests for photography services.

I am not fully au fait with all the comings and goings in the webhosting forum and I would be stunned if Photography was at risk of closure in the way that forum seems to have been closed. From what I can see there were some extreme problems there.

That being said, I have quietly asked several times that this matter be left alone until I have a response from higher up on the subject of the charter update. My view is pretty much that this is a discussion forum, and we have a precedent already for pushing items of a small ads nature to a small ads related side but that opinion is already documented.

Regards,

Calina.

Dodgykeeper

Calina wrote: »

Paul,


That being said, I have quietly asked several times that this matter be left alone until I have a response from higher up on the subject of the charter update. My view is pretty much that this is a discussion forum, and we have a precedent already for pushing items of a small ads nature to a small ads related side but that opinion is already documented.

Regards,

Calina.

We do not have a precedent of asking people who are looking for the services of a photographer to move to adverts, this is a knee jerk reaction to something that happened last week and frankly is nonsense, it is over modding to the extreme!

Calina

Actually DodgyKeeper, it's a kneejerk reaction to something which happened in January along with stuff that happened in August as well the value of which was highlighted further during the week. Do not assume that you are au fait with why I make some decisions the way I do. You are not. I actually spend some time thinking about stuff like this and I spend quite some time discussing it with other moderators too. Currently I have a request in to see how people feel about our wish to prevent some very unsavoury flame wars that have ensued in the past. I'd add that the policy in the charter is supported by myself and the other two moderators.

Secondly, we do have a precedent of forcing all for sale notices to adverts and I don't see too much difference there. In any case, a precedent is not required and I don't know why you think it is. We could, of course, be the ones setting the precedent, which we did with things like the book, and are doing with stuff like the exhibition.

Thirdly I have asked several times that people have the patience to wait until I get some feedback from higher ups on how they feel about our view on this. Given ongoing queries in this thread, that's going ignored.

In light of that, I am very tempted to lock down discussion on the subject for the time being.

In other words, please stop arguing the toss for the time being.

Otherwise I will lock this and the related thread.

Dodgykeeper

Its a discussion forum, we are discussing, lock away if you feel its for the best but I cannot see how a discussion about an issue needs to stop just because you have referred it to a higher power.

kjt

I don’t see what the big debacle is about, every other forum on boards has the same rules. Why should their be an exception for our photography forum?

Dodgykeeper

Thats the question I asked do they?

Say for example web design, if I posted there looking for someone to design a website for me, would my post be deleted and would I be directed to Adverts, if thats the case then fair enough!

kjt

People are pointed over to adverts and the topic is locked.....

Dodgykeeper

Now I didnt know that, am trying to think of other fora where this may be an issue!

Covey

Voted No.

I thought the "problem" in January was resolved with the decision to have offers by PM only. Seemed like a sensible idea and was working well imo.

Dodgykeeper

Any update on this from the higher powers to which it was refered?

Dragan

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

Any update on this from the higher powers to which it was refered?

I imagine the with the appointment new people into the company they might be a tad busy at the moment dude.

I'd say Dev will be along to us as soon as he knows that he wants to do.

AnimalRights

kjt wrote: »

I don’t see what the big debacle is about, every other forum on boards has the same rules. Why should their be an exception for our photography forum?

Because as Brian said we're all individuals!*

I disagree totally with your shove all the sardines into the one tin analysis.













*Monty Python fans

CabanSail

Dodgykeeper wrote: »

Any update on this from the higher powers to which it was refered?

The issues have been raised. We have not received a reply.

There has been quite a few changes at the Admin level recently with the appointment of the Community Managers. I think there will be many issues that will be keeping them busy. When we have any news it will be reported.

Dragan

AnimalRights wrote: »

Because as Brian said we're all individuals!

We are all individuals!:D

AnimalRights

"Now Piss off!"

CabanSail

AnimalRights wrote: »

I disagree totally with your shove all the sardines into the one tin analysis.

Probably better to think of it as a Carton of Sardines.

There is a Carton (Boards.ie) which contains many tins of Sardines (Forums)

The Carton defines the whole & there are things which are common to every forum. In the individual tins have their own variations, some are in Oil, others in Brine, some have added herbs (After Hours) and some have added Spices (Sex & Sexuality).

The differences are why each Forum has it's own Charter.

smelltheglove

I have been very quiet here lately, just watching. I am a bit in between so I havent voted. I like the pm approach however I find quite a few people just pm rather than posting a request at all as I get a fair few pms for weddings here.

Some people that post looking for a photographer are specifically looking for an ametuer photographer, others hoping for someone with experience, I do think that adverts is a better place in the sense that things to tend to get rough here over weddings, its like it turns everyone into togzillas with the same issues being brought up over and over, if it is put to adverts then people who have formed friendships will not necessarily be on competition with each other in their comfort zone. The competitive attitude and high opinions are what has pushed me away from the forum and I do believe it may be a nicer place to visit without wedding discussions.

Although it should not be just weddings, any sort of photographer request should be in adverts, I do believe many people forget adverts is there at all, I have used adverts quite a lot, and gotten some great stuff and services there and although a sister site it does keep business apart from pleasure in a sense.

Darragh

Hey all,

I've been reading this and all the links and giving it a lot of thought. I'll go back to CabanSail on this and let you know what we've decided. I'll ask for a couple of days more patience from you as I don't think it's a decision we can take altogether too lightly.

Thanks

Darragh

Dades

I voted "no".

I don't see any problem with a request for a photographer at all. Unless anything that prompts a discussion outside of C&C is seen as a threat? If every second thread was a request for services (similar to hosting), then fine, move them all. But the volume in this case isn't disruptive and the photography forum can instead do something to stop people hiring underpriced cowboys as is the feeling from other recent threads.

Regarding precedent? Make your own one! A good example would be the Classic Car forum that usually allows people to advertise their cars, as they know the community is interested.