Fennec Foxes

sorella

People here tend to be far-sighted.

Because we all know and love our animals.

So we know that there are no or very few vets in Ireland who can work with exotics.

And we know too that illness can strike, and that thus we need to make emergency arrangements for our animals so that in case of accident, they will be cared for as fully as they need.

We have, for example, two rescued cats and two rescued dogs - and there is no one local we would entrust them to. They have suffered enough trauma already.

So we have a local Pet Rescue "on call" as our safety valve for our animals.

We know that they will care for them properly.

This is why we ask these questions.

Who would care for a fennec in emergency? Or in its own illness or injury?

Because the animals always must come first.

And here on boards, there are those who say they have researched but have ignored basic needs; look at a recent thread on marmosets.

If you ask advice here; you will get it. We care fiercely for critters.

SCI

Rory123 wrote: »

Sci I don't want to get into an argument with you but in fairness if you wanted a really specific type of boa, given your experience, would you come onto boards.ie to ask if anyone had any?

I've asked on boards many times for recommendations and yes I continue to
do so,why? Well first of all I would get maybe some info on another buyers
view on the service the breeder was able to offer,price and how happy they
were in general. I've made I'd say 90% of my breeder contacts this way and
why not.

holyshow

sorella wrote: »

If you ask advice here; you will get it. We care fiercely for critters.

Apart from that no one asked your advice.

The op said she researched them, why not give her the benefit of the doubt instead of giving smug answers?

gversey

Bond-007 wrote: »

OP can you point me in the direction for good care sheets for fennec foxes - not a species that I want but I do like to learn about all the exotics available.

http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/fennecfoxes/p/fennecfox.htm

Discodog

I suspect that the vast majority of breeders will be in the USA. European legislation would prevent trading in much of Europe especially for Cites Appendix 2.

The fact that many posters oppose the "domestication" of wildlife is encouraging. Maybe there really are a few people in Ireland who care about animal welfare. Shame that it is only a few.

Whatever your decision please do not let your desire to spend thousands on a rare animal make you unwary of where you buy from. The urge to own "designer wildlife' means that plenty of "dealers" will catch these in the wild.

The poor guys are endangered anyway without being hunted for the pet trade.
If you find someone who breeds then surely their offspring should be released to boost the wild population rather than kept to make money.

SCI

Discodog wrote: »

I suspect that the vast majority of breeders will be in the USA. European legislation would prevent trading in much of Europe especially for Cites Appendix 2.

The fact that many posters oppose the "domestication" of wildlife is encouraging. Maybe there really are a few people in Ireland who care about animal welfare. Shame that it is only a few.

Whatever your decision please do not let your desire to spend thousands on a rare animal make you unwary of where you buy from. The urge to own "designer wildlife' means that plenty of "dealers" will catch these in the wild.

The poor guys are endangered anyway without being hunted for the pet trade.
If you find someone who breeds then surely their offspring should be released to boost the wild population rather than kept to make money.

That could be said for most pets people keep today,I remember seeing a doc. on wild (former domestic dogs) on the street of India who had formed a pack and were doing very well for themselves.Cats,rats,mice,ferrets would all likely do well in the wild,that's why I ask what the difference was in a wild and domestic animal in people opinion as these little foxes in some cases are 5 generation captive bred according to a breeder I was talking to last year at the Hamm show. If this was your argument when surely you would be agreeing with the likes of PETA,that people shouldn't be keeping animals.

Il do it in step form.

And then Ill suggest something cruel---This is a mod edit btw.

A free and easy guide to a pet fox.
Theres a strong chance i wont look at this again so dont bother bitching:cool:

Discodog

SCI wrote: »

That could be said for most pets people keep today,I remember seeing a doc. on wild (former domestic dogs) on the street of India who had formed a pack and were doing very well for themselves.Cats,rats,mice,ferrets would all likely do well in the wild,that's why I ask what the difference was in a wild and domestic animal in people opinion as these little foxes in some cases are 5 generation captive bred according to a breeder I was talking to last year at the Hamm show. If this was your argument when surely you would be agreeing with the likes of PETA,that people shouldn't be keeping animals.

I agree that the wild domestic argument is blurred & whilst Peta started with good ideals they are now nuts (Fish are Sea Kittens !). You know that the luxury designer end of the trade will always look for new opportunities. Remember when Bengals were fetching $10,000 now they are old hat as cat owners want something more "wild".

I am concerned that as the value/desirability of, for example, a Fennec increases then it becomes more lucrative to catch them in the wild. Then we will have the illegal imports & smuggling with all the issues associated with that. Even with captive breeding the gene pool will soon need a fresh input. The Fennec was always going to be a likely candidate. I am sure that they are being cross bred to try & produce a domestic dog with those ears.

I can understand the urge to own something different. I used to keep all manner of wild animals especially reptiles as a child. I once had an adder in one tank & a smooth snake in another to show the difference at my primary school open day !. Can't imagine doing it now !.

SCI

Discodog wrote: »

I agree that the wild domestic argument is blurred & whilst Peta started with good ideals they are now nuts (Fish are Sea Kittens !). You know that the luxury designer end of the trade will always look for new opportunities. Remember when Bengals were fetching $10,000 now they are old hat as cat owners want something more "wild".

I am concerned that as the value/desirability of, for example, a Fennec increases then it becomes more lucrative to catch them in the wild. Then we will have the illegal imports & smuggling with all the issues associated with that. Even with captive breeding the gene pool will soon need a fresh input. The Fennec was always going to be a likely candidate. I am sure that they are being cross bred to try & produce a domestic dog with those ears.

I can understand the urge to own something different. I used to keep all manner of wild animals especially reptiles as a child. I once had an adder in one tank & a smooth snake in another to show the difference at my primary school open day !. Can't imagine doing it now !.

I've seen this argument many times with regards to Illegal smuggling in reptiles to and to be honest it not a very good one. Research it,people will want proven c/b lines all day long,no disease,not stressed,tame/tamer and people know most importantly it hasn't come from the wild and taken from a venerable wild populations. Granted goverenments allowing the odd animal to go to respected and trusted breeders to inject new genes is handy but not needed. Look at Australian animals that are now kept as pets. I'd agree I can't imagine bring a venomous snake and another protected species to a primary school either.

Hellrazer

Dojojoe.

Thats not even funny.And since you wont be looking at this again Ill make sure you cant.Banned.

Discodog

SCI wrote: »

I've seen this argument many times with regards to Illegal smuggling in reptiles to and to be honest it not a very good one. Research it,people will want proven c/b lines all day long,no disease,not stressed,tame/tamer and people know most importantly it hasn't come from the wild and taken from a venerable wild populations. Granted goverenments allowing the odd animal to go to respected and trusted breeders to inject new genes is handy but not needed. Look at Australian animals that are now kept as pets. I'd agree I can't imagine bring a venomous snake and another protected species to a primary school either.

Whilst it may not be a problem with reptiles it's a huge problem with other animals. Go to Mozambique, Zambia Congo etc & see how many animals especially baby primates are taken for the illegal pet trade.

Rangers often find a dead lactating mother shot so as to get her baby. Many of these animals end up in the far East & then on to America & Europe.

Discodog

Hellrazer wrote: »

Dojojoe.

Thats not even funny.And since you wont be looking at this again Ill make sure you cant.Banned.

The scary thing is that it's perfectly legal.

liah

Out of curiosity, how is that relevant to this thread?

I'm looking for reputable breeders, meaning I will in no way support the taking of the animals from the wild. I'm looking for Fennecs who are a few generations tame.

If you want to argue about ethics, do it elsewhere, but this is simply a request for direction to a breeder, nothing to do with asking for advice as to how to care for an animal (as I am fully aware and capable of doing so, whether some random people on the internet with no idea of my history decide to believe me or not), nothing to do with taking the animals from the wild.

Back on topic, hey?

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

The scary thing is that it's perfectly legal.

Legal or not.its against the rules to promote cruelty.

Rory123

liah wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how is that relevant to this thread?

I'm looking for reputable breeders, meaning I will in no way support the taking of the animals from the wild. I'm looking for Fennecs who are a few generations tame.

If you want to argue about ethics, do it elsewhere, but this is simply a request for direction to a breeder, nothing to do with asking for advice as to how to care for an animal (as I am fully aware and capable of doing so, whether some random people on the internet with no idea of my history decide to believe me or not), nothing to do with taking the animals from the wild.

Back on topic, hey?

The way Animals and pet issues works is that if you don't get a definate name and phone number of a breeder inside the first 24 hours or so, you generally aren't going to get it at all. I'm afraid you don't have the power to tell people what they can or can't post on a thread you started. Only a mod can do that.
Although I would say that as I seriously don't like the cut of your jib!

Best regards,
Random Internet Person.

liah

Haha, fine by me, didn't realize you were god and could tell exactly what I'm like from a few sentences on the internet!

Some people. Amazing.

Amalgam

liah, whatever you decide to do, please don't keep it or them in a tiny room like you see in various YouTube videos. Extremely depressing to see an active animal kept like that.

Rory123

liah wrote: »

didn't realize you were god and could tell exactly what I'm like from a few sentences on the internet!

ERM I don't think I'm God (I'm not the one telling people what they can or cannot write on a thread).
I don't know exactly what you are like from a few sentences on the Internet. I said I don't like the cut of your jib, meaning I do not like what I know of you so far, going by your smart arsed and rude responses to the people who posted things that weren't music to your ears.
Best of luck with your search for a Fennec Fox. I'll not be engaging with you again in this thread, or any further threads.

liah

Amalgam wrote: »

liah, whatever you decide to do, please don't keep it or them in a tiny room like you see in various YouTube videos. Extremely depressing to see an active animal kept like that.

I wouldn't dream of it! People like that don't deserve pets, period.

Oh, and Rory123? The only reason I was giving defensive replies was because you lot were all being incredibly smug (and trust me-- I'm not the only one who noticed ) in the first place. Can't take it, don't dish it is my view!

sorella

You interpret experienced as smug?

That says it all.

liah wrote: »

I wouldn't dream of it! People like that don't deserve pets, period.

Oh, and Rory123? The only reason I was giving defensive replies was because you lot were all being incredibly smug (and trust me-- I'm not the only one who noticed ) in the first place. Can't take it, don't dish it is my view!

liah

Where did I say that?

holyshow

sorella wrote: »

You interpret experienced as smug?

That says it all.

Experience in what? As far as i can see, Rory has no experience with Fennec Foxs.

This is a hilarious thread to be honest. Animal nuts and know it alls at their worst.

Busta Hyman

i gotta say as one that likes the less mainstream animals i gotta say the OP has received some holier than thou responses from some of you.

on a slightly more helpfull note here

thats an advert for a breeder in the uk but as far as i can see your going to need to redecorate a bed room completly to keep it. LOTS of cat towers and digging areas and stimulation and a £3000 price tag for the fox in my experience means a £10000 bill for the setup (i figure any animal useually costs x3 the purchase price for the setup i.e animal costs €50 setup costs €150 bill = €200).

Rory123

Hi folks,
I said I will no longer be engaging with Liah on the fennec fox thread but I feel I need to clear things up with everyone else on here, as I enjoy very much posting on here and all of the banter I have with everyone.
I am not an animal nut, I am not a know all, I am not holier than thou. I also do not have experience of fennec foxes other than info gathered from books and the internet.
I am very interested in exotic animals and as you will find in previous threads (see: "Views on keeping high maintenance exotics and othe ethical issues" thread) I have no problem with certain experienced people keeping exotic animals, if they are able to give them proper care. I actually recently started working in a shop that sells exotics (mainly reptiles).
I also do not want there to be a pro-exotic/ anti-exotic divide on here as every case is different. I also would not like to have an alligence with any member in particular.
I can put my hand on my heart and say I was not being smug with the woman who is looking for a fennec fox, in my first reply on here. I understand this could be interpreted as smug, but that was not my intention. I believe my suggestion of a chiwawa would be a good one for somebody who is not too experienced with animals.
My reply would have been perfectly fine for 99.9% of the people who come on the forum asking where to buy complicated exotics, these people generally turn out to be people who have no experience of animals, and want them just for show. Like Liah mentioned in her initial post, these people also say they have done research, which generally amounts to doing a Google Image Search. Remember the last time being a couple of weeks ago when a woman was looking for a baby marmosette that would slot perfectly into her lifestyle. You will also find other forums with people asking where to buy "Nemos" as they really want them, despite not even knowing that they are a tropical marine species, for another example. If I had known her a little better, and knew of her experience, I wouldn't have said anything. But it seems to have taken her a little longer to find the Animals and Pet Issues forum than many. No problems there though.
As it turns out, Liah does have experience with animals, despite the fact that I do not know her too well from the animals pages on Boards. After she made that clearer, that was enough for me. The only problem that I had from then on was that she was extremely rude and smart arsed with the people who she had come to ask help from... I thought I had made this clear in each post following my initial one on this thread.

All the best,
Rory.

PS I am not the only one who was being slightly critical of her.

Discodog

The OP lists "impulsiveness" in her profile which is a great characteristic for an exotic owner.

Could the OP practice what she preaches in that her last three posts have been off topic.

SCI

liah wrote: »

Out of curiosity, how is that relevant to this thread?

I'm looking for reputable breeders, meaning I will in no way support the taking of the animals from the wild. I'm looking for Fennecs who are a few generations tame.

If you want to argue about ethics, do it elsewhere, but this is simply a request for direction to a breeder, nothing to do with asking for advice as to how to care for an animal (as I am fully aware and capable of doing so, whether some random people on the internet with no idea of my history decide to believe me or not), nothing to do with taking the animals from the wild.

Back on topic, hey?

My advise is to go the the Hamm show in Germany in March,there will be many breeders/dealers there and you would be able to source one there in my opinion.Check also with the wild life people down there as you will likely need an import license. PM me if you need more info.

Busta Hyman

Discodog wrote: »

The OP lists "impulsiveness" in her profile which is a great characteristic for an exotic owner.

so now we will make direct attacks on her personality traits as reasons she shouldent have an animal.

well im impulsive , stubbon, crass, loud, fat, arrogant at times. in my younger years i enjoyed both game and target shooting i eat fish and love red meat. obviously not an animal lover.

liah

Wow. Grasping for straws now, aren't we?

"Impulsiveness" refers to the fact that I often go on adventures impulsively, so say if I felt like going to a different county for a day I'd just up and do it. If I wanted to explore some old ruins I just walked by, I'd do it. If someone asked me to go somewhere with them on spur of the moment, I'd do it. If I had an animal though, such as a Fennec, I'd probably modify my behaviours.

Perhaps you should ask before making absolutely wild accusations...!

Jesus christ, now it's really getting ridiculous.

Amyway, Rory, I appreciate you clearing that up. The chihuahua comment seemed offensive to me, I suppose it shouldn't have because none of you knew my experience-- I got rude after because even after I had stated my experience, people were still taking the piss, so to speak. Still are, as evidenced by Discodog's completely ridiculous remark about "impulsiveness." Guess she didn't read any of my other traits!

And thanks, SCI, I'll definitely look into that!

Discodog

You have stated your experience but never qualified it. I even looked on your profile to see if you mentioned it there. If in your first post you had outlined your experience/qualifications then you may not have attracted adverse comment.

So please enlighten us then if we need advice we know who to contact.

Our man in Havana

OK I feel this is now going around in circles - so I am locking the thread.

OP bother SCI & Busta Hyman have offered advice - check Bustas post or go to hamm you could also look on this page http://79.170.40.161/tskaexotics.co.uk/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73_172&products_id=479&zenid=4988cf20ecc976c143bcdc639f02ace7 TSKA does ask a lot of questions & you may not be accepted by the current owner as a suitable owner. I got my coatimundis through this site.