"As a parent..." - magic words?

Redpunto

cuckoo if it annoys ya that much you should really stop listening to Joe Duffy:D there do be some radio stations that play music,,,,,, some that even play good music

coffee_cake

Redpunto wrote: »

cuckoo if it annoys ya that much you should really stop listening to Joe Duffy:D there do be some radio stations that play music,,,,,, some that even play good music

In between the ads?

johnnyskeleton

stovelid wrote: »

People with kids probably do have more to fear in this kind of climate than those who don't.

That said, I also really dislike it when i'm a parent is used to convey some sort of gravitas, or an elevated place in the recessionary pecking order.

Indeed, what I'd really like to hear them say is "I'm a parent, and I'd like to go on the record and apologise to my kids and to all the children of Ireland because I was greedy in thinking that I could own 4 houses, take 3 foreign holidays a year and buy a new car every other year. Now, when I retire, I will need my kids to look after me financially, am I'm really sorry that I destroyed your future and have committed you all to a life of penury and high taxes."
Instead, what we hear between the lines is "When I was living it large I didn't care about anyone else, now that I'm unemployed I want someone to look after me and, incidentally, my kids."

Capt'n Midnight

you could tell people that time in the presence of young children may affect your opinions.

remind them that in the past primary school teachers could not go on juries here because their judgement would be impaired
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=56545752

JC 2K3

From my experience on boards, any opinion which is preceeded by something like "As a parent..." tends to significantly more ignorant and less intelligent than the average post.

Not that there aren't intelligent parents on boards, just that those who are don't feel the need to include the "As a parent..." part.

Dudess

cuckoo wrote: »

People without children are also capable of putting other people first, thankfully, otherwise our society would be in an even worse state.

Absolutely. Look at those who are full-time carers for relatives (not children). And those who are like surrogate parents to younger siblings.

And look at those who work as care assistants, home helps, various types of nurses - these are vocations. They ain't in it for the money.

allabouteve

Dudess wrote: »

Absolutely. Look at those who are full-time carers for relatives (not children). And those who are like surrogate parents to younger siblings.

And look at those who work as care assistants, home helps, various types of nurses - these are vocations. They ain't in it for the money.

Teachers, child care workers, nursery nurses... not getting rich, but in it for the kids.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

From my experience on boards, any opinion which is preceeded by something like "As a parent..." tends to significantly more ignorant and less intelligent than the average post.

Not that there aren't intelligent parents on boards, just that those who are don't feel the need to include the "As a parent..." part.

The worst kind of idiot seems to think the minute they whelp, they have some sort of extra insight or wisdom as a result.

Eh, no. You've just thought about someone other than yourself for the first time (probably), so don't assume no one else is capable of it unless they're a breeder too.

00112984

JC 2K3 wrote: »

From my experience on boards, any opinion which is preceeded by something like "As a parent..." tends to significantly more ignorant and less intelligent than the average post.

It's a bit like "I'm not a racist but..."
May as well just ignore everything written after that as, whatever the debate, the OP will constantly remind you that they're NOT racist and even have black people living on their street but not liking all Polish people isn't racist.

stovelid

allabouteve wrote: »

so don't assume no one else is capable of it unless they're a breeder too.

wtf?

embee

Cuckoo,

Everyone on the planet who is now a parent was, at some stage in their lives, not one. Do you think that all parents somehow forget their lives as "singletons" or childless people on their baby is born?

I remember it well, it was only 3 years ago after all. I remember what it was like before I had a child.... Being a parent changes your priorities and what you worry about, but you don't develop amnesia for the many, many years you lived before your child/children were born.

Dudess

I don't think cuckoo's disputing that, embee. I think she's saying though that some people do appear to develop amnesia in relation to life before parenthood - I think that's what she means anyway.

Chinafoot

jim o doom wrote: »

Good mate of mine has a sister who claims "It's OK to be a hypocrite if you are a parent"..


Apparently she was a bit of a "wild child" for a good many years before settling down and having kids..

Of course people are hypocritical when they have kids. I'd imagine most people want the best for their kids and as such would rather they stayed away from things like drugs and drink (until they're old enough anyway). My sister was also a "wild child" before she had her daughter, does that mean she'd be happy for her to be out at all hours up to all sorts? Of course not.

Dudess wrote: »

but in situations where it's not relevant, it's as annoying as all the usual "you haven't got kids - you wouldn't understand" patronising, dismissive crap.

I'd tend to agree with them. I can't possibly imagine what its like to have kids. I'm aware that it's difficult but I don't know just how hard it is. How could I? I think rolling your eyes and saying "yeah..I know" is far more dismissve tbh.

Dudess wrote: »

claiva wrote:

Father of 3 here........

LOL

Seriously? For some who is accusing others of being patronising I find your attitude here to be out of order. The poster is merely letting people know where he is coming from in his post.

Dudess wrote: »

No it isn't - don't be so patronising. Anyone with half a brain cell will very easily grasp that you stop putting yourself first when you have children - it's probably one of the reasons some people don't want to have children.

Yeah anyone with half a brain cell probably could grasp the concept...doesn't necessarily mean that those without children will fully understand the extent to which this actually happens.

Dudess wrote: »

I will admit "As a parent, I..." while annoying is absolute poetry in motion compared to "DS, DH, DD". If you use those abbreviations, you are officially a moron.

Honestly, that's really not necessary or welcome.


Guys this thread isn't going to be a free for all on parent bashing. If you would like somewhere to do that may I suggest you head on over to the Forums forum and request your own little area for that?

embee

Dudess wrote: »

I don't think cuckoo's disputing that, embee. I think she's saying though that some people do appear to develop amnesia in relation to life before parenthood - I think that's what she means anyway.

Aye, fair enough, maybe they do.

But I think that it's perfectly normal for your life to be engulfed by your child/children... they're implicit in everything you do, every choice you make, you do have to consider them. To ask parents to always, always bear in mind that they were once non-parents, just so that people don't find them patronising,boring, whiney... well, it's a bit much.

I don't go around telling people to bear in mind that they *might* be parents some day

cuckoo

embee wrote: »

Aye, fair enough, maybe they do.

But I think that it's perfectly normal for your life to be engulfed by your child/children... they're implicit in everything you do, every choice you make, you do have to consider them. To ask parents to always, always bear in mind that they were once non-parents, just so that people don't find them patronising,boring, whiney... well, it's a bit much.

I don't go around telling people to bear in mind that they *might* be parents some day

Ah, no, i don't have a problem with people focusing on their children, it's when they expect me to focus on their opinions because they have kids - that's what got me wound up enough to start a thread about it.

Dudess

Chinafoot wrote: »

Of course people are hypocritical when they have kids. I'd imagine most people want the best for their kids and as such would rather they stayed away from things like drugs and drink (until they're old enough anyway). My sister was also a "wild child" before she had her daughter

And yet your sister turned out ok didn't she? I think the "hypocrisy" people refer to is not a "wild child" toning down their ways and becoming a concerned parent, but acting all shocked and innocent and outraged when it comes to drugs and alcohol and promiscuity as if they never did those in their day, and warning their children they'll "kill them if they ever catch them doing any of that stuff".

I'd tend to agree with them. I can't possibly imagine what its like to have kids. I'm aware that it's difficult but I don't know just how hard it is. How could I? I think rolling your eyes and saying "yeah..I know" is far more dismissve tbh.

Saying "you wouldn't understand since you don't have children" is fair game in plenty of situations - I'm referring though to those instances where it's just not warranted, like the recent debacle in Parenting, and when it's used to undermine people rather than just being a statement of fact.

Seriously? For some who is accusing others of being patronising I find your attitude here to be out of order. The poster is merely letting people know where he is coming from in his post.

I was only having a giggle at it because it read very similarly to "Joe, I'm a father" as discussed humorously beforehand. I see now though how it could have been interpreted as facetious - apologies. It wasn't intended as such.

Yeah anyone with half a brain cell probably could grasp the concept...doesn't necessarily mean that those without children will fully understand the extent to which this actually happens.

Well plenty would - claiva just said "singletons". Not having children isn't, in and of itself, enough reason for a person to have no idea of how hard it is/how it changes you. E.g. staying at the home of a friend/relation who has small children gives you a good idea of even the day-to-day difficulties.

Guys this thread isn't going to be a free for all on parent bashing.

I'm certainly not a "parent-basher". There's a nasty movement whose agenda is to put people down simply for having children. I have zero time/tolerance for that venom. I just, like many others, have a distaste for people who seem to feel as if being a parent makes them superior to those who aren't parents.

Dudess

embee wrote: »

But I think that it's perfectly normal for your life to be engulfed by your child/children... they're implicit in everything you do, every choice you make, you do have to consider them.

Of course. Any good parent would. I'd be worried about a parent not doing the above.

To ask parents to always, always bear in mind that they were once non-parents, just so that people don't find them patronising,boring, whiney... well, it's a bit much.

Ah I think there's misinterpretation going on here - I'd hardly have a problem with a parent putting their child first at all times, with their life being built around their child. That just goes with the territory. I'd be the same.
What I'm referring to here is parents who have an elitist attitude towards non parents in terms of what they say, or who feel they're god's gift "as a mother/father". My friend and I were talking about a horrendous tragedy in our community concerning a little boy recently and both of us were trying to get our heads around it and talking about how shocked and upset we were. She then said to me "and if you've kids, it brings another dimension to it." She wasn't telling me "oh your sadness means nothing, you're not a mother"... she was simply saying the fact she has children makes the thought of such a tragedy physically painful. Perfectly reasonable.

Quality

Ah sure none of us would be here without our own parents!!

Its part of my evolution anyway, now that i am a parent my views are different, cant explain it but they just are!!

stovelid

Not to drag it out, but I must admit that unfair generalizations about parents seem more acceptable than those who elect to be child-free for whatever (perfectly valid) reasons.

To wit:

hamsterboy wrote: »

As Bill Bailey said, you can replace the words "Speaking as a parent" with "Speaking out of my arse"

00112984 wrote: »

I need to form a good debate on people having children causing a lot of this economic trouble.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

From my experience on boards, any opinion which is preceeded by something like "As a parent..." tends to significantly more ignorant and less intelligent than the average post.

And especially this:

allabouteve wrote: »

The worst kind of idiot seems to think the minute they whelp, they have some sort of extra insight or wisdom as a result.

allabouteve wrote: »

so don't assume no one else is capable of it unless they're a breeder too.

How long would specious and idiot generalizations about the child-free last on a forum about women's issues: rug-munchers, spinsters, barren birds; clock-tickers, and the like?

You know, a parent that feels that parenthood deserves some sort of medal or confers some sort of special insight on topics other than than parenting is an idiot. Ditto the parents that do nothing but talk about kids. But I'm not sure why this means it's open season on anybody with kids.

mossieh

I know I have to rein myself in from talking about my kids at times but it's difficult to convey how much of your time and thought they occupy and consequently difficult to not talk about that.

Nobody likes to be patronised, this is understood and some parents can be extremely patronising but I'd be willing to bet they were like that before they had kids too.

Becoming a parent does change your perspective, massively, and (trying to not sound patronising here) you really can't grasp the depth of that change until it happens. That's not a criticism, there are plenty of commonsense reasons why that is the case and I don't see why either side should use it as an excuse to talk down to the other side.

irishgrover

Speaking as a parent (:D - sorry couldn't resist), I think a few things happen that change the way you view things...
from my own experience - I had 4 kids under 6, and having them has changed me in the following ways...

TOO BUSY TOO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING INTERESTING...
I talk about my kids more that I probably should - I think the main reason for the is that feck all else happens in my life. They take up a shocking amount of my time, consequently to be honest I have feck all all to talk about, as I have feck all free time to do anything else.

WHY I'M A TWO FACED PR!CK
The moment I became a parent I became a two faced pr!ck, I absolutely don't want my daughters doing the things I did when I was younger, nor do I want them hanging around with people who do such. Not that I was completely nuts when I was younger, lets just say there was room for improvement. I think that it's just natural that parents want their kids lives to be an improvement on their own - it's probably just evolution.

AS A PATENT...
Because I now have kids I interact with and rely on things that used to be completely immaterial to me, things that I was totally unaware of and had no bearing on my life now have much more impact on me .... so as a parent.. school numbers annoy me (there are 30+ in my kids class), lack of road safety scares me (I live in a town but there is no footpath outside my house), the health care system frustrates me (my 4 yr old broke her arm in two places on a Friday, went to hospital, was x-rayed, given a sling (NOT a cast) and calpol, and told to come back on Tuesday when there would be a pediatric specialist available).
However, to be honest, I don't think I've ever started a sentence with 'as a parent' in my life...

BABY ON BOARD STICKERS
Never understood the purpose of these. I think the only people who actually put there up are first time, very excited parents?
However I usually treat them as a warning to other motorist as a warning "Baby on Board" = "Potentially very distracted driver!"

As a parent, that's all I've to say....

metrovelvet

irishgrover wrote: »

BABY ON BOARD STICKERS
Never understood the purpose of these. I think the only people who actually put there up are first time, very excited parents?
However I usually treat them as a warning to other motorist as a warning "Baby on Board" = "Potentially very distracted driver!"

As a parent, that's all I've to say....

Baby on board signs are code for "extremeley exhausted adult behind the wheel. For your own safety and insurance premiums stay clear."

Nevyn

Babyon board stickers were brought in to alert EMTs and firepersonal that there maybe a child in the car in case of a bad crash where it can be hard to notice.

'AS a Parent' pisses me off cos it's 'won't someone think of the children' lets make
all the corners in the world rounded so I have to take less responsibility for rearing
my child and may have to talk to them about things and explain things I am not comfortable with.

Yes sure I have to think of my kids and make choices, from not having a few more drinks
cos I will be too hung over to take them out the next day ect.
Yes sure I do talk about my brats but there are plenty of people to whom I would not do
that do and I have plenty of other topics of conversation.

The first few years of rearing a child from infant to todder to school age is hard going
mentally, physically and emotionally but worth it and real friends get that and give you space and call over when the kids are gone to bed or can sit in a messy kitchen and have coffee.

I don't have a problem with a person not wanting kids and choosing to be 'child free'
but I think trying to life a life and make your world 'childfree' is not realistic and
getting stroppy and snotty cos some child is ruining your fun or interrupting your life
by being in the same proximity and being a child is silly.

stovelid

metrovelvet wrote: »

Baby on board signs are code for "extremeley exhausted adult behind the wheel. For your own safety and insurance premiums stay clear."

When some bell-end is tailgating you at high-speed, it's definitely more worrying when you have a young baby strapped in the back seat.

I wouldn't put one up in my car - I find them a bit twee as well, but I guess some people hope (in complete vain, tbh) that it will deter tailgaters.

dfx-

I'm sure it's been mentioned in many different ways, but I'm agreeing with the OP. To me, it's not about whether you change your perspective or you focus on 'what's important' (to you I might add, not necessarily everyone else), but what bugs me is the implied validation of the rest of the sentence.

"Speaking as a parent" doesn't validate an opinion on public sector pay for example more than anything else. Or crime or obesity or stem cell research. Or job cuts or Willie O'Dea's hairstyle (even if it does frighten kids and adults alike..) or any number of things. It actually validates a very narrow line of subject matter and yet still is employed far too regularly.

johnnyskeleton

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

you could tell people that time in the presence of young children may affect your opinions.

remind them that in the past primary school teachers could not go on juries here because their judgement would be impaired
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=56545752

That's crazy talk. Any teacher can be exempted from jury service:

Juries Act, 1976 wrote:

...on a certificate from such head or principal teacher that the person concerned performs services in the institution that cannot reasonably be performed by another or postponed.

Spread

Why is this called The Ladies Lounge when most of the contributors are great big hunks or metros?

Wibbs

Spread read the charter of this forum and take time to read and understand the ethos of this forum before posting again. Thank you.