Students' Union 'strike' referendum

mloc

What is worrying is that the SU have the gall to try and make it look like the majority of staff support them on the fees issue. 99% of staff I've talked to are in favour of the re-introduction of fees, they're gripe is with pay issues and totally seperate.

delta_bravo

mloc wrote: »

What is worrying is that the SU have the gall to try and make it look like the majority of staff support them on the fees issue. 99% of staff I've talked to are in favour of the re-introduction of fees, they're gripe is with pay issues and totally seperate.

Well the current SU I think have tried their best to disassociate themselves with this current referendum, obviously if it passes they will latch on but I think even they realise how ridiculous the plan of the referendum is.

Also only a 10% turnout is required for the referndum to be declared valid, seems very low

Dave!

Any idea when this will go ahead if it does pass?

Stabshauptmann

Also only a 10% turnout is required for the referndum to be declared valid, seems very low

It seems very realistic imo based on past SU voting trends and even national / international voting trends. Yeah ideally more people would vote, but I for one prefer realism over idealism

Breezer

Shorty wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IE&hl=en-GB&v=dGCJ46vyR9o&NR=1

I just watched this. What point are you making, exactly? Because a lot of stuff in that video would seem to back up what the people arguing with you here are saying

Anyway, I've voted No. When are the results of the votes due out, does anybody know?

crashers

results out tomorrow

passive

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

It seems very realistic imo based on past SU voting trends and even national / international voting trends. Yeah ideally more people would vote, but I for one prefer realism over idealism

Hmm... I dunno. Fair enough for 5% of the student body to decide who gets to be auditor of SUsoc, but should that number be allowed to shut down the college?

ozt9vdujny3srf

As has already been said, students have no bargaining chips. The only people who lose out by missing a day of college are students.

The most leverage the student body has available to it are the local and european elections coming up in June. If the student body make it clear to the government now that they feel strongly about this, and will come out in numbers in the local elections to support any party who makes a commitment to continuing "free" fees for third level, then maybe they might be listened to - but only if the government are convinced that ignoring students will damage them politically.

In general they don't give a damn what students think, because so many students don't vote.

delta_bravo

Yes vote has been ratified with about 83% so ive been told. A lot higher than i expected.


Also heard from someone at the count that ents seems very close at the first count:

Gary Ward 29%
Morrisey 32%
Mike Pat 36%

Mushy

delta_bravo wrote: »

Yes vote has been ratified with about 83% so ive been told. A lot higher than i expected.

I'm still not striking.

delta_bravo

Mushy wrote: »

I'm still not striking.

Likewise. It appears that none of the FEE candidates will get elected.

First count for president:
Redmond: 32%
Hanratty 30%
Bond 22%
Brophy 14%

Now these may be wrong as someone is passing them on to me but that looks very close

conchubhar1

what a load of boll....

what the hell can striking achieve? you are affecting no one jobs

im not gonna call them idiots, but ye. .

Mushy

delta_bravo wrote: »

Likewise. It appears that none of the FEE candidates will get elected.

First count for president:
Redmond: 32%
Hanratty 30%
Bond 22%
Brophy 14%

Now these may be wrong as someone is passing them on to me but that looks very close

Jesus, does that kind of show the attitude of the students? That they'll vote yes to a big day off, but not even elect a FEE candidate as president.

Any idea on turnout? Or any other sections(Welfare, C&C) results?*

know they aren't definite results, but indicators to results

Breezer

delta_bravo wrote: »

Yes vote has been ratified with about 83% so ive been told. A lot higher than i expected.

*Bangs head against the wall*

I can't say I'm surprised though. I talked to a few people I know about it, intelligent people mind you, and the general response was "Yeah, I can see the point you're making. But come on, a strike, I mean wow!"

Mushy

Breezer wrote: »

*Bangs head against the wall*

I can't say I'm surprised though. I talked to a few people I know about it, intelligent people mind you, and the general response was "Yeah, I can see the point you're making. But come on, a strike, I mean wow!"

*Puts hands in head*

This won't help the cause one bit. May aswell be saying when, not if, fee's are to be re-introduced.

Tom65

delta_bravo wrote: »

Yes vote has been ratified with about 83% so ive been told. A lot higher than i expected.

"I've said it before, and I'll say it again: democracy simply doesn't work"



Feckin' students. Just be sure to strike before I get back in the country.

liamygunner29

83% is correct

smemon

Nobody wants to pay extra fees, lets face it...

Only an idiot (and i'm talking purely about students here) would support the introduction of fees.

The reality is, however, most college heads back the introduction of fees and so do the government.

It will probably go ahead in some shape or form no matter what anyone says or does... in fact, it's happening already - just look at registration fee's rising year on year...

Hiked up to €1500 next september from what, €800 last september? Almost double...

Strikes will not overturn that (as it's already set in stone), they'll raise public awareness of the whole situation but it's too late - once fees come back in, it's gonna take balls of steel from the same government to abolish them again - it's not gonna happen.

Best hope, is to vote these guys out in the next election. Same with most sectors really... the damage has already done.

Browney7

So when is this strike on now??

Expect to see posters for post strike parties in all the night-clubs now and cue RTE sending cameras to the UCD student bar on the day in question:rolleyes:

I thought people would have more sense but obviously not. This will achieve absolutely nothing and will damage the anti-fees movement if you ask me.

/rant over:pac:

delta_bravo

Browney7 wrote: »

So when is this strike on now??

Whenever siptu strike. End of march some time i heard

lemon_sherbert

I think it's on the 31st march, one of our lecturers has already rearranged the lecture

Breezer

smemon wrote: »

Only an idiot (and i'm talking purely about students here) would support the introduction of fees.

I don't support fees, but that's plain insulting to a lot of posters here, many of whom have made very valid points as to why they do support a return of fees.

delta_bravo

I wonder what will visiting lecturers do or even any lecturers that arent in a union

smemon

Breezer wrote: »

I don't support fees, but that's plain insulting to a lot of posters here, many of whom have made very valid points as to why they do support a return of fees.

all right, i've read the thread from start to finish and i see one, maybe two people who have given reasons as to why they can *see* the benefits of them... they're not exactly backing fees 100%

Nobody can support the introduction of fees unless they can afford them - it's as simple as that.

You're not going to buy something you can't afford - or maybe we should.... after all that's what has gotten us in to this mess in the first place...

Yeah there are benefits to fees, but that's not the point... the point is that by introducing fees you're alienating those who now can't afford to go to college.

What student, in this climate, can afford €1500 per year for 4 years plus transport, accomodation, food etc..??? And that's at the minute... if that €1500 triples, how the hell does the average guy or girl coming out the leaving cert afford that without having a job? (which nobody can get now).

It puts added financial pressure on families, which means they make further cutbacks on spending to send little Jonny through college which means the economy grinds to a halt faster than it is doing at the minute...

Students may need loans, families may need loans to cover costs... the banks are just throwing money at you these days

That, or we have a decrease in student numbers, crippling the economy in years to come....

How can we become a knowledge economy and an attractive knowledge economy if knowledge comes at a hefty price? A price not many can afford these days...

Breezer

smemon wrote: »

all right, i've read the thread from start to finish and i see one, maybe two people who have given reasons as to why they can *see* the benefits of them... they're not exactly backing fees 100%

Nobody can support the introduction of fees unless they can afford them - it's as simple as that.

You're not going to buy something you can't afford - or maybe we should.... after all that's what has gotten us in to this mess in the first place...

Yeah there are benefits to fees, but that's not the point... the point is that by introducing fees you're alienating those who now can't afford to go to college.

What student, in this climate, can afford €1500 per year for 4 years plus transport, accomodation, food etc..??? And that's at the minute... if that €1500 triples, how the hell does the average guy or girl coming out the leaving cert afford that without having a job? (which nobody can get now).

It puts added financial pressure on families, which means they make further cutbacks on spending to send little Jonny through college which means the economy grinds to a halt faster than it is doing at the minute...

Students may need loans, families may need loans to cover costs... the banks are just throwing money at you these days

That, or we have a decrease in student numbers, crippling the economy in years to come....

How can we become a knowledge economy and an attractive knowledge economy if knowledge comes at a hefty price? A price not many can afford these days...

There's been plenty of other threads on fees; this one was specifically on the strike.

And yes, you've pretty much echoed my arguments on the other threads there.

mloc

The success of the yes vote once again shows how many idiots are in UCD that should never have made it to university.

Undergraduate UCD is truly on the way to joke status internationally.

Tom65

I really hate to insult UCD's student body, but sometimes I wonder...

Really, I would love to know what that 83% thought when casting their vote. It makes absolutely zero sense to strike. None whatsoever. I'm sorry but I'm just so frustrated by the failed attempts at rallying against fees. "Strike" is the easiest conclusion to jump to, and the USI have done just that. Politically, it doesn't make a lick of sense. A sustained campaign against fees, at the very end of which is an all-out strike, makes (a certain amount) of sense. But to have a referendum on striking at this stage is just illogical. Wait until the academic year, see how the lay of the land is then. If they still believe it makes sense, have a referendum on its own. Then, and only then, should a strike referendum be thought about.

conchubhar1

some people were sittinga round wasted one day, not in the class they were supossed to be in, and probaly day ''mon/dude we should like strike or sumthin'' and everyone there acted like it was a good idea

then they sobered up and still stuck with the idea because they are twats


really students striking - what can that achieve?



who thought of this?!?

Het-Field

Does anybody genuinly think that the Students of UCDSU made an informed decision to vote yes ? Most referenda wont fail because people dont have a clue about the actual referenda. They simply just tick the box (which is flagrant ignorance in itself). I was a polling clerk, and the vast majority of people asked about the referendum as they had not heard about it.

Personally, I think its another crazy idea, which is doomed to fail. The FEE and USI have failed miserably in what they have set out to do. They have offered no contingency plan (much like the Labour Party in 1995), and beyond a few protests, they have offered nothing constructive to the debate. In fact the only reason the CFE and USI didnt fail in 2002-2003, was due to the fact that Noel Dempsey was being an arsehole (not much new there), and kite flying, in an attempt to raise his profile. The PDs and other cabinet ministers were not going to stand for such a move, at such a time.

A strike like this will be counterproductive. Save for the fact that it is to run concurrent with a proposed staff day of action, I could guarantee that thousands of students would crosss the picket line, thus vindicating the Government's view (to a certain extent). Some would do so for ideological reasons, others would do it for academic reasons, and others would do it as they would view the strike as pointless. Shutting down the college for a day, will highlight how little the students realise how lucky they are. A day of Campus Action would be better, with another "noise protest" (similar to February 2006) would be better. This could be co-ordinated amongst all the Universities, and Colleges, and would be done in a manner which would offer people the choice to take action, or otherwise ignore it.

El Siglo

Wouldn't it be gas when 'we're on strike' and that the powers that be decided to lock us out? It would be like the 1913 lockouts except, we have no Larkin and nobody in the real world will give a sh*t. They'd have to get black leg students and strike breakers from trinity now!

This has to be the worst decision ever made, how this even got to a referendum stage is beyond me, are the union retarded or just stupid?:mad:

This will all end in tears, it will have no effect, it's a waste of time, it's going to do more damage than good. Simple as that.