HSP season 5

mormank · 31-03-2009 6:23am

obviously we cannot see evry hand but of the hands we see dwan is running over the table. nobody can handle him. he is literally making everyone call when they have the worst hand against him and fold when they are beating him literally every hand!!! i felt he was lucky with the 4's however against eastgate as the ace and queen dropped..would loved to have seen that hand play out on a ten high board!!(with no 4 either)

barry needs to learn the chip denominations by the sounds of things, shocking mistake to be repeating!! also, no wonder he said math is idiotic, he thinks that 15k x 4 is 80k!!! :rolleyes:

oh and ill be deleting nothing nicky!!

dougee19 · 31-03-2009 7:20am

mormank wrote: »

he thinks that 15k x 4 is 80k!!! :rolleyes:

delete that. he said 20k, not 15

mormank · 31-03-2009 8:41am

cant delete it now. besides if im wrong then oh well...but i couldve sworn daniel re rasied him to 15 or 16k and he hade it 100k with ace king. then sadi he meant to make it 80k, roughly 4 times the raise...if im wrong then my humblest apologies!

Flushdraw · 31-03-2009 8:45am

mormank wrote: »

cant delete it now. besides if im wrong then oh well...but i couldve sworn daniel re rasied him to 15 or 16k and he hade it 100k with ace king. then sadi he meant to make it 80k, roughly 4 times the raise...if im wrong then my humblest apologies!

He also raised Dwan to over 100k aswel. I think he said that he keeps thinking the 25k chips are 20k chips and was only meant to make it 80k...either way, its horrible play imo

NickyOD · 31-03-2009 8:51am

mormank wrote: »

oh and ill be deleting nothing nicky!!

Seriously?

You think a hand where one player check raises a draw heads up and gets someone off a weak paired ace with lots of paints on the board is better......

.......than a guy firing two big barrels knowing full well he's turning TP into a bluff and has two outs against two players getting one off an overpair and the oter off trips?

Next you'll be saying Elezra's fold with AJo preflop was the play of the series!!!:p

Flushdraw · 31-03-2009 9:05am

NickyOD wrote: »

Next you'll be saying Elezra's fold with AJo preflop was the play of the series!!!:p

In all fairness, i nearly fell off my chair when he folded!

ianmc38 · 31-03-2009 9:07am

mormank wrote: »

imo barry greensteins hand against eli with the 56d is better than dwan's last week with queen ten on the ten 22 board.

Well you are very wrong.

ianmc38 · 31-03-2009 9:11am

Dougee Daniel's raise on the flop is awful. he has a good hand with good equity against the table calling station. Eli is not 3betting light ever as far as I can remember, so his range is polarised to QQ+. He should just call the flop and take him to valuetown if he hits a club and fold unimproved if he missed as there is no chance he is folding Qx or better.

mormank · 31-03-2009 9:13am

ok so tell me this. when he bet the flop did he think he was bluffing??

he then gets called in two spots. nw he knows he is behind. he knows that eastgate has a 2 minimum and barry might have an over pair or whatever. so for me the flop bet is totally nothing. then hee bets the turn knowing that this is the only wa yhe can win the pot!! big deal. so the hand comes down to one bet. one bet. he bet the turn into two players cos he knows he cannot win if he checks it..big deal. what if eastagte has pocket tens and dwan ends up losing thehand?? is it the bestest hand in the world ever played by dwan and everyone else then?? or does he just bluff off half his stack?? i think that this hand is being so highly rated because of the result. he ends up wininng the pot..i won the pot didnt i?? :rolleyes:

obviously we can all see that dwan is decimating the table...but i think the 4's against eastagte is better and also i think it is a bit arrogant. but so what, he has shown that he can kill this game so far wh ynot have a bit of underlying arrogance in how he plays..i just think that there is far too much hypeabout the queen ten hand. if he tried it now i think greenstein would call him with aces...just wanna know if everyone would still think it is the bestest play ever if he was walkin into tens or got called by the two or over pair or whatever. i mean greenstein can call with the aces on the turn gon through all the permutations and would not be misplaying his hand imo...

maybe the hand is the best ever on HSP but i just dont think so..surely i am ollowed to have my own opinion...then again on boards alot of the time if you dont conform you are laughed at or ignored...

mormank · 31-03-2009 9:14am

ianmc38 wrote: »

Well you are very wrong.

thank you. thats me told

eoghan104 · 31-03-2009 9:17am

Anyone wana be a doll and embed the video here so as I can see it?

Flushdraw · 31-03-2009 9:20am

mormank wrote: »

then again on boards alot of the time if you dont conform you are laughed at or ignored...

Only when you're so so wrong!

jbravado · 31-03-2009 9:21am

Eli must be a gazziolanaire-think it shows how good the top players must be at massaging egos that he plays so high. Tame episode-big fan of Barry hope he doesnt go crazy next week.

Flushdraw · 31-03-2009 9:23am

Least we might have a new hand to discuss next week where Greenstein and Dwan get it all in for what looks like a megabucks pot!

I think at the end Dwan says to Greenstein "You dont like running it twice" Greenstein says something along the lines of "We can take some money back" and Dwan shakes his head. Looks interesting

NickyOD · 31-03-2009 9:32am

mormank wrote: »

ok so tell me this. when he bet the flop did he think he was bluffing??

Of course he knew he was bluffing. He knew he was going to be bluffing from the beginning of the hand.

Damnit Geoff!

I warned you to delete it. i was trying to help you with your boards credibility.

It's ****ed now forever. :pac:

a147pro · 31-03-2009 9:37am

mormank wrote: »

if he tried it now i think greenstein would call him with aces...

which is exactly why Greenstein donk fested his entire stack off in the J9 hand and luckboxed it out. Dwan made him look like a muppet in both hands.

I agree with you in so far as Dwan was lucky neither had 1010 or a big 2. But we have to presume that Dwan knew Greenstein didn't have 1010, as he prob wouldn't have led at the flop, or that he read his call on the flop as what it was - frustrated weakness.

We also have to presume that he reckoned Eastgate's range was skewed towards low twos or high twos (he prob wouldn't have called pre with 62 to Q2), which makes more low 2s, and he might even have reckoned Eastgate was capable of folding A2 (which I think he was in the circumstances).

Which boiled down to does Eastgate have 1010, and the odds were he didn't, and am I willing to put $100k on that and that he and Greenstein will fold the hands which must be beating me?

I actually thought Greensteins 200k bet against Eli was madness, for the simple reason that Eli is crap enough to call that with a bare ace. Eli is also loose enough to turn up with two pair on that board in that spot, and crap enought to call with that too. But as the commentators said, Greenstein played a lot with Eli so presumably knew what he was at.

I am looking forward to the next chapter of the Dwan Greenstein saga next week though. Chances are we (and they) will still be talking about the Q10 hand as well...

mormank · 31-03-2009 2:44pm

ya i gues when you put it like that. dwan was merely thinking to himself that the only two hands tha twill call the turn is tens full or quads..which is fair enough. and yes i agree tha tdwan made barry look very average in each hand they have been in together. i am also very frustrated at how dwan is running over this table, it makes it fascinating viewing to see what he will get away with next however nobody is standing up to him at all. and then the times that they do he has the goods....

i was thinking to myself today tho that dwan does have an easy enough table at the minute if you look at it. Brunson, who is merely playing like a nit. Barry who is obviously a good cash game player but at the minute cannot even seem to figure out the chip denominations. Benyamine who i have never ever been impressed with apart from the odd shirt that he wears on TV!!! Eli is Eli. he has got eastgate who appears to be playing scared money from day 1 and that leave daniel who, as everyone has said, is playing on monkey tilt!!

i dont think dwan would have it all his own way with a table of Patrick A, Ivey, hansen, esfandiari, phil laak or even Daniel back when he was the guy who buys in for a million and bosses the table...

mormank · 31-03-2009 2:50pm

NickyOD wrote: »

Of course he knew he was bluffing. He knew he was going to be bluffing from the beginning of the hand.

Damnit Geoff!

I warned you to delete it. i was trying to help you with your boards credibility.

It's ****ed now forever. :pac:

ha. thanks for tryiing man!!!

dont worry about it tho. from day one on here i have had no credibility!!!

hey look guys, if it helps i will hold my hands up and say i am not as good at the game as alot of ppl on here! i know this, ye know this. however i do not play the game against ye. i beat the guys i play. but i do not have the same understanding of the game ye do so if ye say to me that this hand is in fact the best hand ever i will take your word for it!!!

RedJoker · 31-03-2009 3:44pm

mormank wrote: »

ok so tell me this. when he bet the flop did he think he was bluffing??

he then gets called in two spots. nw he knows he is behind. he knows that eastgate has a 2 minimum and barry might have an over pair or whatever. so for me the flop bet is totally nothing. then hee bets the turn knowing that this is the only wa yhe can win the pot!! big deal. so the hand comes down to one bet. one bet. he bet the turn into two players cos he knows he cannot win if he checks it..big deal. what if eastagte has pocket tens and dwan ends up losing thehand?? is it the bestest hand in the world ever played by dwan and everyone else then?? or does he just bluff off half his stack?? i think that this hand is being so highly rated because of the result. he ends up wininng the pot..i won the pot didnt i?? :rolleyes:

Jesus, no wonder you don't think much of the hand, the thought process is absolutely nothing like that, I mean it couldn't be further from what's going on.

The flop raise is obviously a bluff. He's hardly doing it for value and he's certainly not doing it to "find out where he's at", that would be completely illogical. His hand isn't strong enough to call Barry's flop bet with, he's behind Barry's range and there's another 6 players to act behind him, who can either have a monster or are capable of representing it, so turning his hand into a bluff is perfectly fine. In fact, this hand is one of the best he can use since having a T means that there's 66% less combos of pocket tens out there. It also gives him 2 outs against any 2x hands that are out there.

He doesn't bet the turn because "that's the only way he can win", he bets the turn because the probability of them folding is high enough to make the bet +EV. If he doesn't believe they fold often enough then he doesn't make the bet, regardless of whether he can win the hand another way or not. TT is most likely in Eastgate's range, Dwan believed that it wasn't a large enough part of his range to make the bet -EV.

If he loses the pot then the people who actually understand what's going on will still appreciate the hand. You're correct that most people would think it was awful play if he got called, thankfully those people exist or poker wouldn't be profitable.

a147pro · 31-03-2009 4:08pm

RedJoker wrote: »

You're correct that most people would think it was awful play if he got called, thankfully those people exist or poker wouldn't be profitable.

TBH it would be an awful play if he got called. Its so blindingly obvious that Eastgate has the 2 that you'd think Dwan was a complete muppet if he was saying "I knew he had the 2, but I thought I could make him fold".

mormank · 31-03-2009 4:11pm

thank you for your post redjoker!!! im gonna sound like a tard here but ill own up to what has happened here...i didnt realise for whatever reason that barry had bet out with his aces and dwan raised!!! i thought he checked and dwan bet with eastagte callin and barry calling...aaaahhhhhhhhhh i see now...of course i see now. dunno how i got that into my head!! ah the fact that barry bet and he raised changes things..oh right. thanks guys, im on board now!!

(still dont think its the bestest hand ever :P:P)

Flushdraw · 31-03-2009 4:13pm

a147pro wrote: »

TBH it would be an awful play if he got called

What you think of the play shouldnt change based on the result. 99.9% of people, maybe even more, wouldnt have played that hand the way Dwan played it, thats why Dwan is better than 99.9% of people out there.

mdwexford · 31-03-2009 4:18pm

I think people are going way over the top with the Eastgate scared money thing.

RedJoker · 31-03-2009 4:20pm

a147pro wrote: »

TBH it would be an awful play if he got called. Its so blindingly obvious that Eastgate has the 2 that you'd think Dwan was a complete muppet if he was saying "I knew he had the 2, but I thought I could make him fold".

WTF? Whether the play was good or not doesn't change if Eastgate happens to have TT or if he has a huge brainfart and stacks off with 42.

We're judging the play up to the point where durrr bets, anything after that is largely irrelevant.

mormank · 31-03-2009 4:26pm

i still reckon this is one of the softest table ever on HSP!! or at the very least that it could be alot harder for dwan

zuutroy · 31-03-2009 4:32pm

mdwexford wrote: »

I think people are going way over the top with the Eastgate scared money thing.

yea...plays HSNL online, Won $8M in WSOP and another chunk of change at the PCA. I'm sure he's not sweating 200k all that much.

jbravado · 31-03-2009 4:35pm

RedJoker wrote: »

WTF? Whether the play was good or not doesn't change if Eastgate happens to have TT or if he has a huge brainfart and stacks off with 42.

Do yot think it would be a huge mistake for Eastgate to get it in on the turn or indeed call the turn? I dont considering it is against Dwan.
I think the way Barry appears to have deciced to take on Dwan is the best,just embracing the variance.

mdwexford · 31-03-2009 4:43pm

jbravado wrote: »

Do yot think it would be a huge mistake for Eastgate to get it in on the turn or indeed call the turn? I dont considering it is against Dwan.
I think the way Barry appears to have deciced to take on Dwan is the best,just embracing the variance.

I think it would be bad getting in 500bb's there, Dwan's range there is TT and 2x, he cant expect him to be that crazy to be bluffing in that spot, a bluff makes up a tiny part of his range imo.

I think Durr is almost tilting Barry into playing back at him in bad spots so far.

jbravado · 31-03-2009 4:52pm

I dont think a bluff is a tiny part of his range to be fair...small I guess but certainly not tiny.
I wonder what % of the time Easgate figures Dwan shuts down on the end if he calls the turn-close to zero?
I dont understand why Barry just didnt call in the j9 v aa hand but meh result based I suppose.

RedJoker · 31-03-2009 4:57pm

jbravado wrote: »

Do yot think it would be a huge mistake for Eastgate to get it in on the turn or indeed call the turn? I dont considering it is against Dwan.
I think the way Barry appears to have deciced to take on Dwan is the best,just embracing the variance.

As deep as they are it would be pretty marginal imo, especially with Barry to act behind him.

Dwan's never doing it with worse for value and it's really tough to put someone on a bluff in that spot, he raised a tight UTG opener's cbet with 6 players to act behind and fires again when he got called in two spots. They obviously know Dwan's reputation but how can you give somebody credit for that until you've actually seen them do it before?

HSP season 5

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