Is there anybody here who still considers themselves a Fianna Fail supporter ?

LoanShark

Deleted User wrote: »

All I can see is Brian Cowen getting pissed in a pub.Has he curbed his drinking yet?

Is that the best arguement you can produce??
It's [EMAIL="dickh€@ds"]dickh€@ds[/EMAIL] like you that get the airtime that brainwashes the uneducated into think that this econmic downfall is all Brian Cownes Fault!
When it is a far bigger picture than just us..

I am a Fianna Fail Supporter and always have been..and will be.

The opposition have nothing to offer, But just Highlight Negativity and offer No Positive constructive solutions..

Brain Cowen and his government will guide us through this downturn it won't be easy,But That's life,We all stood with our hands out taking everything the bank threw at us during the good times and now we're huffing because 'Shock Horror' We have to start paying it all back...I agree that there has been alot of guys at the top of the food chain that have got away with far too much, But Unions,Lawyers and Bullsh*t have made it easier for them to escape.
Why dont they come out and hang their members,Simple...They are Spineless Arrogant Lemmings who know too right that they could easily get the P45 if they step out of line from their members..

cm2000

I think I would still consider myself a ff supporter though i am not and have not been a member. Here are my reasons.

1. I will not forget the massive growth, debt reduction and peace they have brought to this country over the last decade or so.
2. I do blame them for the property boom, it was poorly regulated but I do somewhat feel that the reason for this was not to support builders or raise prices but to curb rising prices at a time when the demand for houses was huge and the supply short. People called for an increased supply to curb price inflation. I accept it was badly done and hold them responsible but it's not something I think was done for greed nor do I think it is a single issue that should define them.
3. The financial crisis is a worldwide phenomenon and the culture is changing but massive regulatory change was not on the agenda of any political party and so I don't accept that it's a Fianna Fail problem but rather a result of a global culture.
4. I consider myself centre-right. I also think that of the political parties Fianna Fail has the most talent, I really do. I look to people such as Barry Andrews and especially Conor Lenihan and see intelligent reasoned politicians who provide a good future for the party. In Fine Gael I can only see Bruton as a really talented guy and the fact that he's not their party leader is an example of their own ineptitude. In Labour I see little or no talent, Quinn is OK but Gilmore sickens me. He is severe in tone, hopeless when we need hope, populist and is more partisan than any politician I've seen in a while.
5. I also do not accept that our growth has all come from a property bubble. It has, in my opinion come primarily from an extraordinary export sector and from the intelligence, dilligence and creativity of a new generation of confident workers, supported by a government who created a low tax, business friendly environment.

What I appreciated most from Cowen's speech at the Ard Fheis was the comment that our phenomenal last 15 years produced a confidence that we have earned and the we deserve. He is flawed. The party is flawed. But I feel it is the most talented, most proven and most hopeful political party in the country and I, for now, will stick by them.

Please don't all hate me a once.

gaynorvader

I will vote for FF mainly because of Mr.Cowen. Say what you like, he has certaintly made some bold decisions and deserves our support. It's easy to blame, hard to fix and he's trying his hardest, despite being thrust unexpectedly into a very awkward position. Opposition parties seem to be seizing any little mistake he makes and holding it over his head. Even if the opposition parties aren't in power, they should be shelving their pride and egos and working together with the current government to think of positive solutions to resolve this downturn.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

gaynorvader wrote: »

I will vote for FF mainly because of Mr.Cowen. Say what you like, he has certaintly made some bold decisions and deserves our support. It's easy to blame, hard to fix and he's trying his hardest, despite being thrust unexpectedly into a very awkward position. Opposition parties seem to be seizing any little mistake he makes and holding it over his head. Even if the opposition parties aren't in power, they should be shelving their pride and egos and working together with the current government to think of positive solutions to resolve this downturn.

As minister for Finance over most of the last 10 years, Cowen is directly responsible for this mess. The fact that he is getting the flack is only fair. He has NBOT made any bold decisions. "Bold decisions" would be TD's having to account for expenses, cutting back on extravagances and putting on trial any bankers found to have broken the law. Decisions he is NOT capable of making.

Darragh29

gaynorvader wrote: »

I will vote for FF mainly because of Mr.Cowen. Say what you like, he has certaintly made some bold decisions and deserves our support. It's easy to blame, hard to fix and he's trying his hardest, despite being thrust unexpectedly into a very awkward position. Opposition parties seem to be seizing any little mistake he makes and holding it over his head. Even if the opposition parties aren't in power, they should be shelving their pride and egos and working together with the current government to think of positive solutions to resolve this downturn.

He deserves to be dropped into the Liffey. This countries biggest problem is that there are too many people in it who have notions that they have leadership ability, who in fact have none.

We all know what has to be done, the problem is that this guy won't do it. We don't need to think of any more "positive solutions", the solutions are well known, take a chainsaw to public sector current liabilities to reduce the amount we have to borrow and increase whatever taxes you have to eliminate borrowing for current government spending.

This is what every other business in the country is doing now, borrowing is simply not an option for them and it shouldn't be for the government either. Cut your cloth according to your measure and get on with it...

destroyer

LoanShark wrote: »

..I agree that there has been alot of guys at the top of the food chain that have got away with far too much, .

Think Bertie Ahern ,Liam Lawlor, Ray Burke, The Flynnstones for
a start

cm2000

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

As minister for Finance over most of the last 10 years, Cowen is directly responsible for this mess. The fact that he is getting the flack is only fair. He has NBOT made any bold decisions. "Bold decisions" would be TD's having to account for expenses, cutting back on extravagances and putting on trial any bankers found to have broken the law. Decisions he is NOT capable of making.

Ok what is it exactly you find objectionable about the fraud squad investigating this matter? would you be more in favor of dragging them into Dáil Eireann by their hair and hanging them or would you like your government to follow proper legal recourse?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

cm2000 wrote: »

Ok what is it exactly you find objectionable about the fraud squad investigating this matter? would you be more in favor of dragging them into Dáil Eireann by their hair and hanging them or would you like your government to follow proper legal recourse?

The latter. My point being that I seriously doubt it will ever happen. I did say "put on trial". You somehow intrepreted "hanging".

Dockfive

I come from a Fine Gael background but am not overly impressed with Enda Kenny and even at that, I agree with most people that there isn't that much of a difference between FG and FF, the big difference I think is that traditionally FF have been better organized than FG.

I'm not sure under what circumstances we would have an early election so until then we are stuck with the FF/ Green coalition.

I think the problem with the current government is the arrogance of FF. You can blame the banks and you can blame the international aspect of the crisis but the reality is that FF have been in power for most of the past 20 years and they need to own up and take responsibility. Perhaps if the Taoiseach came out, admitted mistakes, apologised and asked the country to get behind him to sort this out, people would be more willing to let FF lead. Politically, that is probably pie in the sky, especially for this Taoiseach who seems to be the most adversarial one that we have had since Haughey.

As for Sinn Fein in govt, I still can't let go of their role as apologists for murder in NI but perhaps, as with other parties in this country and other countries, a time will come when a line in the sand can be drawn between their past and their present. Not sure if we are there yet though.

cm2000

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The latter. My point being that I seriously doubt it will ever happen. I did say "put on trial". You somehow intrepreted "hanging".

Well they are being investigated by the fraud squad, if evidence is found then they will go to trial. What exactly is the problem here? What is your criticism of Cowen exactly on this point?

gaynorvader

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

As minister for Finance over most of the last 10 years, Cowen is directly responsible for this mess. The fact that he is getting the flack is only fair. He has NBOT made any bold decisions. "Bold decisions" would be TD's having to account for expenses, cutting back on extravagances and putting on trial any bankers found to have broken the law. Decisions he is NOT capable of making.

I would label his decisions with the banks as bold. He could've put the bankers on trail, halved TD's wages, etc. But all he would've accomplished would've been creating instability in the banks and walkouts from some of the most experienced members of government. I would hope that he would continue to reduce TD's payrolls, but not in one fell swoop as that would be more destructive than constructive.

petergdub

I'm not an FF supporter per se, but Cowen has impressed me.
He appears to be a clever guy who will p*ss people off if it is necessary.
I was no fan of Bertie - he was a populist.

The problem with the so called opposition is they are contradicting each other:
Labour want to spend us out of the mess and FG want to save us out of it.

I have no time for that trout Joan Burton and the likes of Roisin Shortarse.
Heaven help us if they took the reins.
Imagine a scary frontbench trio of
Burton, Shortarse and Stagg.
I would be comfortable with FG in power.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

cm2000 wrote: »

Well they are being investigated by the fraud squad, if evidence is found then they will go to trial. What exactly is the problem here? What is your criticism of Cowen exactly on this point?

You have more faith than I do.

gaynorvader wrote: »

I would label his decisions with the banks as bold. He could've put the bankers on trail, halved TD's wages, etc. But all he would've accomplished would've been creating instability in the banks and walkouts from some of the most experienced members of government. I would hope that he would continue to reduce TD's payrolls, but not in one fell swoop as that would be more destructive than constructive.

Fair enough, but I would still like to see the expenses issue directly targeted. If any TD walks because he/she has to justify his expenses, frankly the country is better off eithout them.

cm2000

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

You have more faith than I do.

Are you somehow of the opinion that this is a massive conspiracy between Cowen, the banks and the fraud squad?? I really don't see the point you're making

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

cm2000 wrote: »

Are you somehow of the opinion that this is a massive conspiracy between Cowen, the banks and the fraud squad?? I really don't see the point you're making

My point being that I don't believe a trial will ever happen. Money talks in Ireland and between stalling and legal loopholes, I can't see those responsible being brought to justice. Probably more likely to shady dealing rather than conspiracy. Bringing the rich and corrupt to justice is not Ireland's strong point. It is was, we wouldn't be in this mess.

thebman

I guess I'm from a FF background since that is how my parents vote but political parties are rarely mentioned in my family.

Allowed to form my own opinion which is that FF are in developers pockets.

I don't know enough about FG as they have not been in power so don't know what they would actually do, I just hear what they say they would do.

Labour are the party talking most sense at the moment and I don't believe they are in the unions pockets as much as everyone likes to say they are (the same people in denial about FF being in developer pockets usually). They aren't just going to cripple the country by giving into the unions IMO. I would require them to be in coalition with one of the others to be sure they couldn't have everything their own way though.

Greens are a joke. They have always been a joke party.

PD's were FF whipping boys and I don't think they were any use TBH.

At the moment I'd go for a FG/Labour coalition in the next election but I'd take a FF/Labour coalition if Labour have a lot more influence than FF's previous partners in the past 15 years.

Jimdagym

Zzippy wrote: »

If we all know these are needed, then why is Lenihan ruling out a mini-budget and raising taxes until the Budget in October? Head in the sand stuff from FF again... :rolleyes:

Anyone catch the news today?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Jimdagym wrote: »

Anyone catch the news today?

Why? Did the situation get "marginally worse" again?

Mr.Micro

A mini budget by the end of the month. Lenihan did not get the last one right, let alone his calculations or economic predictions so much so that he has to do another budget. Maybe we will have couple of more before the year is out?

Government signals new mini-Budget

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0303/exchequer.html

lmtduffy

ionix5891 wrote: »

I would have to disagree, any such coalition would result in a loss of vote from this voter. Despite what FF has done (not done) for this country I stand by my gut feeling that SF are an even bigger bunch of jokers, and I learned to listen to my belly

SF shouldn't be allowed anywhere near power, these guys are dangerous and i still haven't got an answer in a recent thread about their mysterious and contradictory economic policy, you think right about now be a good time to come up with one and win people over

Thats sad to hear, so we'll just have to hope labour get enough to go it alone:)

cooperguy

Who actually believes that if another party were in charge for the last 10 years there would be a serious difference in where we are today?

Which party exactly would have had the balls to call stop where FF didnt. And why didnt they do it from the opposition bench?

Im not a FF supporter but I really dont think we would be much better off if somebody else was in charge.

DarkJager

I think we need a fresh government, and enough of this nonsense about their being no credible alternative. Who can honestly say they would not want someone like Richard Bruton as Finance minister? The guy is as straight talking as they come, and actually has a clue about the workings of the economy compared to pot shot Lenihan.

lmtduffy

LoanShark wrote: »

Is that the best arguement you can produce??
It's [EMAIL="dickh€@ds"]dickh€@ds[/EMAIL] like you that get the airtime that brainwashes the uneducated into think that this econmic downfall is all Brian Cownes Fault!
When it is a far bigger picture than just us..

no people are not being brain washed into thinking it all Brians fault people are fully aware FF are incompetent and he being their leader is a legitimate target for anger.

The opposition have nothing to offer, But just Highlight Negativity and offer No Positive constructive solutions..

Yeh because social democratic parties never got countries out of recessions,
ah but they do, and when their in power persistently produce highly advanced states. People need to look to Scandinavian countries and their history and their present to see what we can do and what the consequences of our action will be.

and at least the opposition are capable of reading and understanding the information given to them, ala Lenihan.

Brain Cowen and his government will guide us through this downturn it won't be easy,But That's life,We all stood with our hands out taking everything the bank threw at us during the good times and now we're huffing because 'Shock Horror' We have to start paying it all back...I agree that there has been alot of guys at the top of the food chain that have got away with far too much, But Unions,Lawyers and Bullsh*t have made it easier for them to escape.

no were huffing because "shock horror" we have to pay for the banks wrong doings, the banks that should be regulated by government bodies, but...nah its easier to just not go there isn't it?

How have unions made it easier for anyone in the top of the food chain to escape, I believe it is workers may of whom are in unions that are the ones footing bill?

and one again what about the governments duties to regulate the financial sector, there lack of strong or effective corporate legislation to stop these guys escaping?

Your post is a wonderful display of the arrogance and me fein attitude of FF and their supporters.

Why dont they come out and hang their members,Simple...They are Spineless Arrogant Lemmings who know too right that they could easily get the P45 if they step out of line from their members..

I cant tell honestly are you talking about FF here?

lmtduffy

cm2000 wrote: »

I think I would still consider myself a ff supporter though i am not and have not been a member. Here are my reasons.

1. I will not forget the massive growth, debt reduction and peace they have brought to this country over the last decade or so.

yes because no one else would have done that?, except it might have taken slightly longer is Sinn fein were in power.
The debt reduction doesn't count for much now,

2. I do blame them for the property boom, it was poorly regulated but I do somewhat feel that the reason for this was not to support builders or raise prices but to curb rising prices at a time when the demand for houses was huge and the supply short. People called for an increased supply to curb price inflation. I accept it was badly done and hold them responsible but it's not something I think was done for greed nor do I think it is a single issue that should define them.

my main issue with that is that those not able to get on the "property ladder" were given priority over a host of other more vulnerable groups form school children to the homeless.

3. The financial crisis is a worldwide phenomenon and the culture is changing but massive regulatory change was not on the agenda of any political party and so I don't accept that it's a Fianna Fail problem but rather a result of a global culture.

Some form of constructive spending to reduce the gap between the rich and poor, or less money for private hospitals or private schools, would have eased the current situation.

4. I consider myself centre-right. I also think that of the political parties Fianna Fail has the most talent, I really do. I look to people such as Barry Andrews and especially Conor Lenihan and see intelligent reasoned politicians who provide a good future for the party. In Fine Gael I can only see Bruton as a really talented guy and the fact that he's not their party leader is an example of their own ineptitude. In Labour I see little or no talent, Quinn is OK but Gilmore sickens me. He is severe in tone, hopeless when we need hope, populist and is more partisan than any politician I've seen in a while.

What ever about the future of the party, the current bunch are incompetent, unaware and quiet detached, FF only legislated when it suited them and their supporters, alot of people will never get there share of the Celtic tiger because of the talent you see.

Care to explain why such reasoned politicians allowed a pd with a very small mandate to deconstruct the health service

5. I also do not accept that our growth has all come from a property bubble. It has, in my opinion come primarily from an extraordinary export sector and from the intelligence, dilligence and creativity of a new generation of confident workers, supported by a government who created a low tax, business friendly environment.

and there reintroducing fee's because?, and that generation of workers isnt carrying us now because?, and all the business that hired them just happen to be be multi-nationals enjoying a low corporation tax.

They had a lot of chances to establish some strong Ireland based industries with that generation and they didn't.

What I appreciated most from Cowen's speech at the Ard Fheis was the comment that our phenomenal last 15 years produced a confidence that we have earned and the we deserve. He is flawed. The party is flawed. But I feel it is the most talented, most proven and most hopeful political party in the country and I, for now, will stick by them.

Please don't all hate me a once.

really how are they hopeful?

lmtduffy

gaynorvader wrote: »

I will vote for FF mainly because of Mr.Cowen. Say what you like, he has certaintly made some bold decisions and deserves our support. It's easy to blame, hard to fix and he's trying his hardest, despite being thrust unexpectedly into a very awkward position. Opposition parties seem to be seizing any little mistake he makes and holding it over his head. Even if the opposition parties aren't in power, they should be shelving their pride and egos and working together with the current government to think of positive solutions to resolve this downturn.

He is lacking in the bold decision department, pensioners being a bold example.
His hardest is not good enough,
he was finance minister before this, although you couldn't expect him OT have been aware at that time either.

Little mistakes? I dont think hes being making mistakes, I think that's just FF policy.
The current government didnt want to work with the opposition before, so now you think first of all that they would listen now, and secondly that the opposition should just give there policies to the FF and support the shower that have done so much damage?

lmtduffy

cooperguy wrote: »

Who actually believes that if another party were in charge for the last 10 years there would be a serious difference in where we are today?

Which party exactly would have had the balls to call stop where FF didnt. And why didnt they do it from the opposition bench?

Im not a FF supporter but I really dont think we would be much better off if somebody else was in charge.

if money was put into developing our welfare system and encouraging indigenous industry, and supporting our education system, they we would be better off, and the cuts would not be so deep,

Darragh29

The Dept. of Finance have FINALLY come up with a solution to the financial crisis!

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=270352935855

:D:D

ROS123

What I cant understand and it drives me nuts is people saying I have always voted ** (FF FG Lb) and I will always vote **. Substitute which ever letters that suit, This is brainless moronic logic. Vote for which ever Party makes the most sense at whatever given time. The other thing which should never happen is for one party to stay in power for too long (FF at the moment) Power corrupts, that and complacency just breeds contempt and they loose touch with reality.

Whatever the choice of alternative, FF have been in power too long, they need a spell in opposition so that they can get a grip on reality, and learn a little humilty. Having said that, now is not the time for an election, maybe it is time for some all party cooperation.

shezzie

get the useless sods out now i vote for election to oust them...let the people talk and let them listen for once...:mad: