To the public sector bashers - why did you not get a job in the public sector..

achtungbarry

To the public sector bashers - why did you not get a job in the public sector..

...when times were good ?

There was ample opportunity during the good times to get a relatively safe job in the PS with a decent pension.

To those who constantly whine about the job security and good pension in the PS, why didn't you get a job in the sector for these reasons ?

astrofool

A number of reasons probably.

Lack of any motivation to perform well due to guaranteed bonuses/promotions, basically confining yourself to a life of servitude to the government.

More chance of earning a promotion on merit in the private sector, rather than being related to, or being their longest.

Being part of one of the most inefficient and administration/beaurocrat heavy organisations in the world.

Knowing that in the tough times, that due to the public sector relying on private sector wealth earning, that they would have to take a cut.

Not having to rely on a closed shop union to fight your battles for you, in neglectance of the customer.

Lack of being able to be innovative, and stamp yourself onto a drone of a job.

Knowing that if the IMF came calling, you'd be one of the first ones to go.

Mandatory pension when you can't pay the mortgage today. (again condemning a person to a life in a quango of a job).

There's probably more, but I'd say the ambition to make a difference is a big one.

(btw, I'd exclude nurses and doctors from most of the above, unfortunately they make up a ridiculously small proportion of the health service workers).

deadhead13

Perhaps, too many people were taken on in the public sector during "the good times" as it is.

nesf

I wouldn't consider myself a public sector basher but the main thing which makes me hesitant of entering the public service is the scale of unionisation, I think it's bad for the country and think that "incremental scales" only benefit the laziest worker (i.e. the best people are probably worth more than what they're being paid and the most useless fecker in the grade is getting far in excess of what he's worth). I detest these kinds of systems and am not sure if I could be happy working somewhere where I'm on the same pay of some lazy muppet beside me who only does enough to not get fired.

Every public and civil servant I know complains of the same thing, that there's some gob****e in their office/department that in any efficient system would be fired and out on their lazy incompetent behinds on the street but because they know how to play the system they're pocketing the same wages as the rest of the room, many of whom take their duties very seriously and work hard for their money.

Scofflaw

Hm. I wouldn't suit it, and it wouldn't suit me, is the short answer. I took the exams once to keep a friend company, and did well in everything bar the "situational testing", where I think I was wrong virtually every time, from the question about the Minister's sandwich to the meeting with the external consultant. In the latter one I could at least clearly envision myself in the situation - except that I was the external consultant.

Not everyone wants a "relatively safe job" - fortunately, since otherwise nobody would be starting their own companies.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Padraig Mor

achtungbarry wrote: »

To the public sector bashers - why did you not get a job in the public sector..?

Because they were always really hard to get? Despite what union types are now saying, public sector job vacancies have always been hugely oversubscribed.

woodseb

so you got a job in the public service because it was a safe job.....congrats

you still have the safe job, so don't moan that you pay is cut too. you can't have your cake and eat it

ednwireland

i went for an it job in the north western health board 2001 i was interviewed by a 7 person panel, i didnt get the job probably a no. of reasons BUT the job went to guy who was next in line (and was told he had the job as i found out later so they wasted half a day of my time interviewing, another job this time paid for by the donegal local deveplopment went again to an internal candidate despite many people applying who had serious qualifications - none of the external candidates were interviewed (at least they didnt waste my time on this one)
i have no faith in being able to get a public sector job unless i am given the nod by someone in there i do not think there is a fair selection process.

Sleipnir

achtungbarry wrote: »

To the public sector bashers - why did you not get a job in the public sector..

...when times were good ?

There was ample opportunity during the good times to get a relatively safe job in the PS with a decent pension.

To those who constantly whine about the job security and good pension in the PS, why didn't you get a job in the sector for these reasons ?

Here's an idea, why don't we all work in the public sector. I mean everyone. That way, everyone in the country will have job security and a guaranteed pension. :rolleyes:

spank_inferno

tried... failed.... immediate family member of the town clerk got the job instead.

In retrospect, I'm glad because I've since convinced myself that 1.5hr lunch breaks wouldnt be good for me.

ixoy

nesf has it pretty much on the ball for me - the heavy unionised atmosphere is really off putting. I don't like the idea that there's very little merit-based approach to work - it does protect the lazy worker who gets the same pay increase as the hardest worker at the same grade. I don't think that's right (and I don't believe PMDS works either).

There's also the fact that a lot of the work that I'm interested in isn't actually performed by the public service, but instead contracted out (which is where I am). That's gradually shifting a bit, but for the most the work that's being performed wouldn't hold my attention.

I'm also not fond of the mindset that we've seen a bit of lately - the "ohh poor me I never saw the celtic tiger" - the one that wants all the benefits of the public and private sector. Now this is something that's emerged more recently, but it would put me off that bit further.

All-in-all though it's the qualities nesf pointed out that I'd still find the hardest to swallow.

egan007

achtungbarry wrote: »

To the public sector bashers - why did you not get a job in the public sector..

...when times were good ?

There was ample opportunity during the good times to get a relatively safe job in the PS with a decent pension.

To those who constantly whine about the job security and good pension in the PS, why didn't you get a job in the sector for these reasons ?

Might possibly end up working with you

achtungbarry

egan007 wrote: »

Might possibly end up working with you

Thank goodness for that smiley. Things could have got nasty.:D

Good honest answers from most people apart from a few dodging the question and just ranting about how bad the public sector is but it wouldn't be boards without that.

markpb

I'm the same as the rest here. I did actually work in the public service (semi state) for a while and enjoyed it for the first few months. I worked with some great people who were very good at their job but overall the feeling of not contributing anything, the heavy union atmosphere and the lack of any pressure (ever) meant I got bored very quickly.

Naz_st

nesf wrote: »

I wouldn't consider myself a public sector basher but the main thing which makes me hesitant of entering the public service is the scale of unionisation, I think it's bad for the country and think that "incremental scales" only benefit the laziest worker (i.e. the best people are probably worth more than what they're being paid and the most useless fecker in the grade is getting far in excess of what he's worth). I detest these kinds of systems and am not sure if I could be happy working somewhere where I'm on the same pay of some lazy muppet beside me who only does enough to not get fired.

Every public and civil servant I know complains of the same thing, that there's some gob****e in their office/department that in any efficient system would be fired and out on their lazy incompetent behinds on the street but because they know how to play the system they're pocketing the same wages as the rest of the room, many of whom take their duties very seriously and work hard for their money.

+1

And it's this very reality that I think creates the frustration by a number of public sector boards posters who get incensed by people "tarring them with the same brush" etc. It seems that a majority of public sector employees on boards accept that there are a lot of inefficiencies and certain "wasters", but they are also angered by people generalising about the "inefficient public service" etc. If you don't have some form of meritocracy, or performance related bonus/promotions, then this generalisation is an inevitable conclusion. You just can't have it both ways.

hobochris

ixoy wrote: »

I'm also not fond of the mindset that we've seen a bit of lately - the "ohh poor me I never saw the celtic tiger"

This one pisses me off in particular, I've just one word for all the public sector people who toe this line.... "BENCHMARKING" you were happy to accept it in the good times when it meant in many positions people in the public sector were on a significantly larger salary then their private sector counter parts.

point and case:

two friends of mine we'll call them J and B graduated this year with Honors degree's in IT (Same college,same course,even got the same level of merit).

J gets a job in the private sector as a software developer.Salary €25k.

B get s a job in the public sector as a software developer. Salary €33k with flexitime.

Anyone want to explain that??? oh yeah forgot to mention J is a much better developer then B.

I've herd so many stories the same. Pore Fricken public sector. I only sympathy for those very few in the public sector that are actually on very low salaries(i.e. less then 21k or those who've worked there entire lives and only got to 30-35k). The rest I've no time for.

OhNoYouDidn't

hobochris wrote: »

J gets a job in the private sector as a software developer.Salary €25k.

B get s a job in the public sector as a software developer. Salary €33k with flexitime.

Anyone want to explain that??? oh yeah forgot to mention J is a much better developer then B.
.

J is an idiot for not negotiating a salary closer to his market value or if he was unable to do so in current conditions, follow B into the public sector.

Blaming B for J's choices is infantile and the point the OP is making.

dresden8

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Because they were always really hard to get? Despite what union types are now saying, public sector job vacancies have always been hugely oversubscribed.

That's not true. In the early noughties they were inviting people to come in for interview, no exam. It was a simple pass fail.

Nobody was applying for the jobs because they wanted to be little tigers.

ixoy

dresden8 wrote: »

Nobody was applying for the jobs because they wanted to be little tigers.

Or for some of the other many reasons posted above. Please stop trotting out this line as the only reason people didn't get a job in the PS/CS - this thread has shown the variety of reasons people didn't go for one.

dresden8

ixoy wrote: »

Or for some of the other many reasons posted above. Please stop trotting out this line as the only reason people didn't get a job in the PS/CS - this thread has shown the variety of reasons people didn't go for one.

I fully appreciate that a lot of people would seem to prefer to make less money in the private sector than in the public sector, as it's the better choice for them.

Somehow.

markpb

dresden8 wrote: »

I fully appreciate that a lot of people would seem to prefer to make less money in the private sector than in the public sector, as it's the better choice for them.

Somehow.

I can tell by the utterly condescending tone of your post that you still don't get it. I'll give you an example. I graduated CS a few years ago along with a very, very talented programmer. He was offered a job in FAS on 11k more than the average staring salary of other talented programmers in the class. He took the job purely for the money. Almost immediately he was given out to for getting work done "too quickly". Eventually he realised he could do a weeks work on Monday and do absolutely nothing else for the rest of the week and, when he did, the rest of his colleages settled down and stopped teasing him and giving out about being such a hard worker.

He stayed with FAS, gradually doing less and less work but still getting by and doing all that was expected from him. He cracked after four years, took a pay cut and moved to a private company where the work is more interesting, more challenging and no-one suggests he should "take it easy".

I know not all of the civil and public service is like this but *a lot is* and it's this that puts some people off. If you want a cushy job with no pressure, no expectations and yearly increments for being merely adequate, those areas of the cps are ideal. If you want to enjoy your work, feel that you have accomplished something and that you're growing the economy, some (but not all) jobs in the private sector are more suited.

zootroid

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

J is an idiot for not negotiating a salary closer to his market value or if he was unable to do so in current conditions, follow B into the public sector.

Blaming B for J's choices is infantile and the point the OP is making.

I think you'll find that graduates, with little or no real world experience, will find it extremely hard to negotiate a good salary in their first jobs. In some of my previous jobs I have seen some middle managers having difficulty with this, and this was at a time when there was full employment!

I think the point the poster was making was that public sector unions were demanding pay rises in relation to those in the private sector. But now as the market wage is decreasing, unions don't want to give up these pay rises. And in the current climate, I don't think that it is possible to continue paying high wages.

whiterob81

I'll tell you why I did take a job in the public sector. I was working an incredibly boring and mundane job on a factory line and this job just seemed like a step up. I was 21 so it wasn't exactly the pension or the permanance that was drawing. I just didn't want to work night shifts any more.

I would agree with nesf that there's an awful lot of innefficiency in here (says the guy posting on boards). And sometimes, it's impossible to get anything done because of the amount of red tape.

The main problem is that people can't be fired, there are so many people here that just wouldn't survive in any other sort of environment.

also, speaking as someone who is not making a huge amount of money in here, i have to say the pension levy doesn't bother me. what's 6% at the end of the day when the country's going down the crapper. I know people who've been laid off at a moment's notice and who've been put on 3 day weeks that have done less bitching and moaning than moaning than most of the people in here have about their measly pay cut. Have to say, I'm finding the whole striking business embarrassing

also, the whole "we never had the celtic tiger" attitude really grates. Speaking as someone who applied for jobs outside the civil service during my time here, none of them could offer me the pay or benefits to make leaving worth my while. Also when public servants say they want their pay to be in line with the private sector, you know for definite they're not talkin about kitchen porters or mcdonalds employees

If i'd stayed with my private sector factory job, i'd be on 10,000 less a year and facing redundancy later this year as they're shutting down.

ah, it feels good to get that off my chest. I sure as hell can't say it out loud here

dresden8

markpb wrote: »

I can tell by the utterly condescending tone of your post that you still don't get it. I'll give you an example. I graduated CS a few years ago along with a very, very talented programmer. He was offered a job in FAS on 11k more than the average staring salary of other talented programmers in the class. He took the job purely for the money. Almost immediately he was given out to for getting work done "too quickly". Eventually he realised he could do a weeks work on Monday and do absolutely nothing else for the rest of the week and, when he did, the rest of his colleages settled down and stopped teasing him and giving out about being such a hard worker.

He stayed with FAS, gradually doing less and less work but still getting by and doing all that was expected from him. He cracked after four years, took a pay cut and moved to a private company where the work is more interesting, more challenging and no-one suggests he should "take it easy".

I know not all of the civil and public service is like this but *a lot is* and it's this that puts some people off. If you want a cushy job with no pressure, no expectations and yearly increments for being merely adequate, those areas of the cps are ideal. If you want to enjoy your work, feel that you have accomplished something and that you're growing the economy, some (but not all) jobs in the private sector are more suited.

So he gave up a well paid job and took a pay cut because he was being "teased" by the lads?

Well, at least he's happy now.

markpb

dresden8 wrote: »

So he gave up a well paid job and took a pay cut because he was being "teased" by the lads? Well, at least he's happy now.

It's amazing how you STILL can't see the point anyone is making. He was bored to tears, doing nothing, going nowhere, learning nothing, not wanting to go into work because there was nothing to do, no reason to try harder or improve himself. yada yada yada.

ixoy

dresden8 wrote: »

So he gave up a well paid job and took a pay cut because he was being "teased" by the lads?

No he took the cut because, for many, there's actually more to a job than just the salary - they want to be motivated and interested in the job, they want to contribute and feel that contribution is both recognised and appreciated. This is one thing that's come up in many people's posts about why they didn't join the PS/CS, including my own.

LoveDucati2

markpb wrote: »

I'm the same as the rest here. I did actually work in the public service (semi state) for a while and enjoyed it for the first few months. I worked with some great people who were very good at their job but overall the feeling of not contributing anything, the heavy union atmosphere and the lack of any pressure (ever) meant I got bored very quickly.

I was in the courts service, which had equal amounts of excellent workers and lazy incompetent f*ckers. Promotion was based on 3 questions, and you were allowed to print your answers and bring it in to interview.

markpb wrote: »

Eventually he realised he could do a weeks work on Monday and do absolutely nothing else for the rest of the week and, when he did, the rest of his colleages settled down and stopped teasing him and giving out about being such a hard worker.

I would agree with this, I know when I was there you would work about 4 - 5 hours a day, rest of time chatting, surfing or bitching.

dresden8

ixoy wrote: »

No he took the cut because, for many, there's actually more to a job than just the salary - they want to be motivated and interested in the job, they want to contribute and feel that contribution is both recognised and appreciated. This is one thing that's come up in many people's posts about why they didn't join the PS/CS, including my own.

I'm well aware that there are people out there who will forego a cushy, overly well paid, boring job with a gold plated pension in favour of hard work, low pay, no pension and the possibility of being thrown out on your ear at the whim of your employer.

Seems like the smart choice alright.

woodseb

dresden8 wrote: »

I'm well aware that there are people out there who will forego a cushy, overly well paid, boring job with a gold plated pension in favour of hard work, low pay, no pension and the possibility of being thrown out on your ear at the whim of your employer.

Seems like the smart choice alright.

one group contributes to society, the other feeds off it

amacachi

I didn't get a job because when I phoned to book a test I was told all the spaces were full and I would be called when more venues were arranged. 2 days later I phoned again and it rang out, never got that call.

Strangely any of my mates who got in (all of whom already had family in) never had the same problem. Weird no?

markpb

dresden8 wrote: »

I'm well aware that there are people out there who will forego a cushy, overly well paid, boring job with a gold plated pension in favour of hard work, low pay, no pension and the possibility of being thrown out on your ear at the whim of your employer.

Seems like the smart choice alright.

And with that one post, you've just demonstrated to other civil servants the attitude that puts the private sector off supporting your row with the government over the pension levy.