Galway homeless and Head shops

ScumLord

inisboffin wrote: »

It's a nasty drug in its 'clean' form, never mind what it's like after s*it is pumped into it for street use.

That's not totally true, in it's clean form Heroin isn't that bad. I know people that have lived a normal life dragging a 40 year addiction around with them. They have access to a clean supply and the will power to control it. It's still an addiction and it is doing them harm but the fact is their life isn't in danger because they have a clean supply.

The biggest danger with illegal drugs is the fact there illegal. Illegal drugs can contain anything. Even Cannabis can be contaminated for profit.

inisboffin

ScumLord wrote: »

That's not totally true, in it's clean form Heroin isn't that bad. I know people that have lived a normal life dragging a 40 year addiction around with them. They have access to a clean supply and the will power to control it. It's still an addiction and it is doing them harm but the fact is their life isn't in danger because they have a clean supply.

The biggest danger with illegal drugs is the fact there illegal. Illegal drugs can contain anything. Even Cannabis can be contaminated for profit.

I was responding to the post where heroin (ab)use was compared to similar alcohol (ab)use. Heroin abuse, with prolonged use, will cause cirrhosis of the liver at TWICE the rate as alcohol abuse. I can go digging for studies but it is common sense.
We all know 'of' people who drank '7 or 8 pints a day' for their whole lives. We also all know WAY more people who died of alcohol related disease. For someone to 'control' a heroin habit is rare. To maintain a 'maintenance' heroin habit is rare..way rarer than an alcoholic with a 'daily' maintenance...Generally it takes huge willpower, and frankly a lot of money. I don't know where a 'clean' daily supply of heroin can be guaranteed for anyone less than a very well off person. Heroin is cut with so many additives, including actual sh*t:( One little side-disease of this, fairly common among junkies if there is an outbreak ishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrotizing_fasciitis
If you are not rich, or have willpower of steel, the lifestyle choices needed to maintain a habit are often lifespan reducing on their own.

If you are talking about 'medical' heroin or something similar that is rarer and cleaner, then the chances of overdose due to purity are phenomenal unless someone else is trickling your supply to you and controlling it. An addict will generally chase the high.

ScumLord

inisboffin wrote: »

I was responding to the post where heroin (ab)use was compared to similar alcohol (ab)use. Heroin abuse, with prolonged use, will cause cirrhosis of the liver at TWICE the rate as alcohol abuse. I can go digging for studies but it is common sense.
We all know 'of' people who drank '7 or 8 pints a day' for their whole lives. We also all know WAY more people who died of alcohol related disease. For someone to 'control' a heroin habit is rare. To maintain a 'maintenance' heroin habit is rare..way rarer than an alcoholic with a 'daily' maintenance...Generally it takes huge willpower, and frankly a lot of money.

He did have both. In fairness a rarity among addicts he was also a doctor.

The thing is Alcohol is clean, so to speak. The other major problem with alcohol is the doze required. With the illegal drugs you put far less of it into your system whereas alcohol pollutes the system because of the amount that's required to get the desired "buzz".

If heroin was available under the same restrictions as alcohol you would be looking at medical grade stuff being sold. So to compare legally manufactured alcohol to street heroin isn't fair. You'd really need to be comparing medical grade heroin addiction to alcohol.

Heroin is highly addictive though, you will end up with an addiction hanging over your head quite easily. Alcohols a bit safer in that you have to go out of your way to develop the addiction.

End of the day I suppose heroin is bad and it doesn't really matter how bad it is.

axiom32

EuskalHerria wrote: »

My argument was a bit more than just about legal highs, read through the thread.

I Realise you cannot get PCP in the head shops i stated a PCP replacement or something similar to PCP.

try reading some info urself
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phencyclidine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzylpiperazine

inisboffin

ScumLord wrote: »

He did have both. In fairness a rarity among addicts he was also a doctor.

End of the day I suppose heroin is bad and it doesn't really matter how bad it is.

You'd be amazed the amount of addiction in the medical profession:rolleyes: Not so much to heroin but it is there too.
Yeah, I wondered if it was someone with 'access' that you were referring to.
Ever see the film Candy - deals with heroin addiction. Geoffry Rush's character was a bit of a chemistry genius, and had access to 'the pure stuff'.
Not to be using films to reference discussion tho!:p

You're right, comparing street grade to regulated alcohol is imbalanced. Medical heroin would be a better comparison over time.
I suspect the person you know was purely taking it to stop him getting sick though, the 'high' continually diminishes, and long term addicts just use to stop daily withdrawal symptoms.
The way the body becomes addicted and metabolizes each is different too though. Some alcoholics experience the need to drink until they drop. If the buzz is being chased in heroin though, this will lead to death pretty quickly. I am not against regulating heroin for existing addicts, so they have a clean supply. But the risk of death by (accidental) overdose with pure heroin is huge compared to death by alcohol.

Whatever happened to good ol ironing of banana peels!:p:D

chrussell

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Was out last thursday and left the nightclub with a friend who wanted a cigarette. We ended up talking to a homeless man I usually see around eyre square asking for change for a cup of coffee yet usually spot him with a can an hour or so later. Anyway we ended up talking to him for another half hour at least and as my friend an I are staunchly Anti-Drugs we started asking him where he got the drugs he used when he needed them.

I was honestly shocked at the answer when he said that him and most of the homeless go to the head shop as they are a lot of the time cheaper and stronger than the stuff you would buy off your dodgy dealer. He started telling us that you could get a PCP tablet in the head shop for €7.50 that would have you off your head for a night and sometimes take you on a bad trip.

Now Speaking personally I would be for the legalisation of some drugs so to take away from the dangers of how drugs are made and distributed at the present time. At the same time it was a little unnerving and I was uncomfortable at the thought of someone walking into a shop and simply purchasing a drug that could possibly (whether it being "herbal" or not) make someone have a bad trip and possibly lead to a tragic accident.

I'm sure the discussion of head shops have been done to the death but how do feel about people being able to buy legal drugs? Especcially legal drugs like this PCP replacement which are a very serious drugs.

I'm not a fan of drugs, but when I was in athlone a year or two ago, a friend of mine brought home some herbal e tablets and we took them. I have to say i got a bad reaction, spent the night in the toilet covering my ears cause I thought someone was coming up the stairs to kill me! I've never tried anything illegal and real but I have heard from others that the herbal stuff can be allot worse than the illegal gear! I even think the herbal stuff is banned in amsterdam!

Redhairedguy

BZP is due to be outlawed within this month. The headshops have already found replacements chemicals. In a matter of weeks BZP will no longer be on the market.

I remain very neutral on the stance of headshops as there are major pros and cons to them.

If people are still quite interested in this topic. The screening of 'Waiting for March' the documentary dealing with this very topic will be on the 13th of June in the Town Hall Theatre.

(Sorry mods, I'm not intentionly plugging it )

Asmodean

Have to agree with the OP here definitely I'm afriad. Drug users get so god awfully protective when they meet anyone who disagrees with the taking of drugs.

Funnily enough, given a clean supply of heroin, an everyday (ab)user will live a long (and very happy) life.

Do you have a source you could refer me to as to where you got this information? I'm not disputing it but I would like to source its validity.
I have experimented with drugs in the past and after I had a godawful trip once I vowed never again to go near the things. I just don't understand (IMO) how anyone could willingly take such mind-altering substances. The thing is they often lean on dodgey statistics or anecdotal evidence as to how 'grand' drugs are. But who knows just what damage these drugs will cause over an extended period of time.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Asmodean wrote: »

Do you have a source you could refer me to as to where you got this information? I'm not disputing it but I would like to source its validity.

It's pretty well known. (Pure) heroin and other opiates do virtually no damage to body except, I believe, some constipation. It places no strain on the organs. Deaths due to overdose are caused by respiratory failure due to the depression of the central nervous system (I suppose you could say relaxing to death:p).

There's an article with references here. http://nepenthes.lycaeum.org/Drugs/Opiates/safe.and.fun.html

/edit: Also note that when I say happy, I mean content. I can't imagine life as a smack-head would b very fulfilling.

big b

Asmodean wrote: »

Have to agree with the OP here definitely I'm afriad. Drug users get so god awfully protective when they meet anyone who disagrees with the taking of drugs.
I have experimented with drugs in the past and after I had a godawful trip once I vowed never again to go near the things. I just don't understand (IMO) how anyone could willingly take such mind-altering substances. The thing is they often lean on dodgey statistics or anecdotal evidence as to how 'grand' drugs are. But who knows just what damage these drugs will cause over an extended period of time.

While I respect everyone's right to voice their opinion, especially when it's based on personal experience & not just hearsay, I feel compelled to say:

User groups of anything which csn be abused will be protective of their right to enjoy it, it's not exclusive to recreational drug users. See the thoughts of drinkers, speeders etc & you'll find plenty of protectionist views.

What really surprises me is that a country with a young, well-travelled & vocal population so readily buys into Nanny-Stateism.

ScumLord

Asmodean wrote: »

Have to agree with the OP here definitely I'm afriad. Drug users get so god awfully protective when they meet anyone who disagrees with the taking of drugs.

Do you have a source you could refer me to as to where you got this information? I'm not disputing it but I would like to source its validity.
I have experimented with drugs in the past and after I had a godawful trip once I vowed never again to go near the things.

I take drugs because they are mind altering. That's the whole point IMO. I'm convinced people just don't know how to take drugs and don't understand what the desired results should be. I don't think of trips as good or bad. It's a trip, you take each one as it comes and it will give you valuable incite into your own mind and how the human mind in general works.

Drugs aren't for everybody, you tried them didn't like them, that's fair enough. I know plenty like you. Everyone's different though.

inisboffin

Sean_K wrote: »

It's pretty well known. (Pure) heroin and other opiates do virtually no damage to body except, I believe, some constipation. It places no strain on the organs. Deaths due to overdose are caused by respiratory failure due to the depression of the central nervous system (I suppose you could say relaxing to death:p).

There's an article with references here. http://nepenthes.lycaeum.org/Drugs/Opiates/safe.and.fun.html

/edit: Also note that when I say happy, I mean content. I can't imagine life as a smack-head would b very fulfilling.

To clear this up a bit more...'Pure' heroin does not exist on the streets. The closest thing to 'pure' heroin is medical heroin. Access to this is extremely difficult unless you are a doctor (see posts above). It is not true that pure heroin doesn't cause liver damage. It does. Yes one can argue, so does butter I suppose.:p
'Chipping' as referenced in the link in the last post, is not usually associated with needle use. 'Chipping' is using a controlled amount "safely" over a long period of time (assuming your daddy is a doctor or you have access to pure heroin, I don't know how you can guarantee 'purity')
Ask any junkie if they started off 'chipping'. Most will say yes.
The kind of constipation one gets is extreme, we are not talking a few bananas constipation, but a very painful symptom. Brain damage is linked with the opiate family, but studies have (like mobile phones etc) been disputed by drug companies that have interests in legal opiates.
A link here referring to just the pure form of heroin (which I am not sure why we are discussing tbh), referencing allergic reaction and immune system failure.
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1999-09/937972538.Me.r.html

Most heroin users (I said most) are dead by 50. Varies a bit the age referenced but that's a low life expectancy. http://www.myparentingportal.com/heroin.html

ACCIDENTAL overdose by respiratory failure is high. The reason for this is the difficulty in monitoring the grade of the 'pure' heroin. The body just stops breathing. Also, if an addict is chasing the 'high', the need to increase the dose *each time* is often there (sometimes circumstance/money is the only thing stopping this). Therefore the addict is just maintaining the existing habit, and shooting up NOT to get sick. I wouldn't exactly call this relaxing.

Now, the vast majority of heroin use is of street heroin. It is 'cut' with a dozen different substances. It is highly linked with crime and disease, and the percentages for physical damage SHOOT up when you factor this, never mind on a social level.

Saying a teaspoon of 12 year old Jameson every day is not damaging is probably accurate too. But heroin doesn't come in sterile packages that are monitored by a nanny, nor does it make the user easy to control their own health in relation to usage.