we're all being lubed up to get rightly shafted.

bobbbb

There should be no holding back on the higher or lower paid.
The whole population should get shafted equally - right down to those on social welfare.

10% levy across the board (including the 1% they already have) on ALL income including dole.

Nobody can cry that they've been picked on, everybody contributes the same percentage

DeirdreD

10% levy across the board!! Crikey! Think people are finding it difdicult enough to pay mortgages, bills etc on the wages they have(if any) a 10% drop would make it impossible!

ejmaztec

If the government really wanted to be helpful, in their typical "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" kind of way, they could mitigate our taxation crucifixion by investigating the prices of goods imported into this country, and finding a way of forcing the importers to drop their prices to the retailers.

I appreciate that they will probably be upsetting a few of their pals by doing this, but at least they wouldn't have 4 million people trying to nail the lot of them to a tree.

Time Magazine

DeirdreD wrote: »

10% levy across the board!! Crikey! Think people are finding it difdicult enough to pay mortgages, bills etc on the wages they have(if any) a 10% drop would make it impossible!

We need €10,000 more tax per worker. 10% doesn't stretch all that far when you think the industrial wage is less than €40,000.

ejmaztec wrote: »

they could mitigate our taxation crucifixion by investigating the prices of goods imported into this country, and finding a way of forcing the importers to drop their prices to the retailers.

Lol, pretty sure government forcing importers to drop their prices is against that whole common market thing we signed up to.

gazz66

these lads are way out of their depth, listening to them on de radio and tv talkin themselves in circles is laughable. what does it take to be a government minister??? a daddy who was a politician, well my daddy was an electrician but i ain't gonna try rewire your gaff for ya.

how is this country a democracy? the people are treated by idiots although if we continue to meekly vote for this shower then maybe we deserve all we get. the boys who defended the gpo in 1916 must be cryin wherever they are if these are the best so called leaders we can find.

time for a revolution? climb out of yer 4x4s, get ure arse outa the spas and golf clubs and start givin a ****...
people livin and dyin on de streets, our grandparents are freezin to death afraid to turn on their heatin, kids with disabilities are forgotten by all but their families, dying people are discarded, sick and can't pay ,well **** off this country don't care.
I'm sick of it and you don't care.....you won't do nothing. i'll stand on my own.
thought it would make me feel better to blow off some steam but i feel worse, angry and impotent...would we be worse off if the brits still ruled here? sad isn't it to think that.
I re read Animal Farm by George Orwell last week...prophetic stuff...cowan/harney---napoleon/snowball its spooky.
I wonder how much a 3 bed house is in manchester

Darragh29

There is no doubt whatsoever that this 10% cut in the cost of ESB, is politically motivated. When they come out at the end of the month and hit the PAYE worker for 10% and the Public Sector worker for another 10% and the man/woman on the dole for 10%, they'll be saying into every camera and mircophone, "look look we tell you, the cost of living is down substantially so you can all afford to give us another 10%", as they slap another 10% on the cost of living by increasing excise on fuel, drink, etc, etc, etc...

ejmaztec

The Economist wrote: »

We need €10,000 more tax per worker. 10% doesn't stretch all that far when you think the industrial wage is less than €40,000.


Lol, pretty sure government forcing importers to drop their prices is against that whole common market thing we signed up to.

... as I said - "finding a way". Isn't price-fixing within the EU illegal, for instance?

Time Magazine

ejmaztec wrote: »

... as I said - "finding a way". Isn't price-fixing within the EU illegal, for instance?

Any action which attempts to prevent, restrict, or distort fair competition in trade between EU member-states is illegal. So yes, price-fixing is illegal. There are certain exceptions (e.g. things like public transport can be subsidised) but in general, there are no ways around it. And for good reason.

(That's pretty much just an FYI, I don't want to bring this thread too off-topic.)

ArmaniJeanss

Daithinski wrote: »

I'd say its probably time the horsey stud-farm people should pay a bit more tax.

So far I haven't heard them mentioned.

It would be an absolute drop in the ocean.
Most stud farmers are making an absolute pittance and that money is going to be reduced further in the next few years (I don't expect to see many property developers indulging themselves in a few Derby prospects at the yearling sales this year??).

There are maybe 4 studfarms operating at the mega level but even then the money isn't what people think it is.
Take a horse like Gallileo, currently operating at the biggest stud fee in Europe at about 100K covering 200 mares a season. => generates €20M. Theres maybe another 10 stallions operating at half this, another 20 at 1/4 of this, another 50 at a tenth of this.

Tax these fees to the hilt if you want - 33%, 50%, 75% whatever. In theory theres ooooh about 100M a year to be made. It'll be very popular on the Joe Duffy show.

BUT.
The horses will be out of the country and covering in Kentucky within 2 weeks (This isn't a Dell style factory operation which takes 18 months to wind down) with the resultant loss of jobs for stallion men, stable staff, horsebox drivers, feed providers etc.

ardmacha

Any action which attempts to prevent, restrict, or distort fair competition in trade between EU member-states is illegal.

Can you have a high rate of corporation tax on super profits, on the basis that such profits are the sigh that there is not full competition?

Time Magazine

I imagine you would be allowed to tax profits at increasing rates like income, sure. But there's absolutely no way any economist could tell you where to draw the line at what's "super profits". Complete legal nightmare.

Plus it'd be very dangerous for us to impose a tax of e.g. 30% on all profits over €10m (or whatever) because then suddenly large companies will pull a U2 on us.

Tech3

The Economist wrote: »

We need €10,000 more tax per worker. 10% doesn't stretch all that far when you think the industrial wage is less than €40,000.

10% would be a enormous amount of taxation in one single budget and in reality this is not going to happen. But it is really worrying times and already 2 billion down for 2 months is a disgrace. I have no faith whatsoever in this current government at all. How could they be off as much as 2 billion?

cm2000

They can only work off figures given to them by the department of finance, esri, employed economists etc. you just have to react to the situation as it presents itself

ardmacha

I imagine you would be allowed to tax profits at increasing rates like income, sure. But there's absolutely no way any economist could tell you where to draw the line at what's "super profits". Complete legal nightmare.

You have to base this not on the amount of profit, but on margin or suchlike. Basically if your prices are similar to other European countries or Newry then you are not making super profits and so do not have to pay for the higher rate. The intention would not be directed at raising tax but creating a situation where an importer etc is clearly charging beyond typical margins than all of the profit would fall into a high tax bracket. If they confine themselves to regular profits (more or less) then they pay the regular rate. The advantage of this would be that organisations would have to produce some paperwork to justify their high prices, and justify these by reference to real higher costs. So you could say that higher costs meant Newry prices + 6%, but not justify a 26% difference (overall).

Plus it'd be very dangerous for us to impose a tax of e.g. 30% on all profits over €10m (or whatever) because then suddenly large companies will pull a U2 on us.

I would structure this to focus on the non traded sectors, retail, importers etc, not mobile businesses.

nesf

Akrasia wrote: »

The irish income tax take is one of the lowest in the world per individual

It's not. We're low for an EU country at approx 25% but that's almost exactly the same as the UK and 4% higher than Malta's. Worldwide there are countries with only one tax band as well as countries with two that have top rates that are less than half of ours.

RiverWilde

A huge problem with this country is the cost of living. The govt. may leave more cash in our pockets but they try to lever it out in so many other ways.

Consumer spending is down. What a surprise. What is the govts. reaction? Tax us! We won't spend our money - the little we have left - so they'll just take it at source. Fine, that is their choice, but it will not make me spend a single penny in this jurisdiction beyond what is absolutely necessary.

This country is a cross between a roman galley and a cruise liner - we have biffo and co. on the bridge without a bloody clue - there's a party going on in the ballroom and as for the rest of us we're all chained to the oars below decks with some git cracking a whip at us if we dare to stop rowing.

Riv

nesf

RiverWilde wrote: »

Consumer spending is down. What a surprise. What is the govts. reaction? Tax us! We won't spend our money - the little we have left - so they'll just take it at source.

Would you prefer if they simply cut 5 billion in spending i.e. social welfare, pension and child benefit cuts combined with plenty of lay-offs in the public sector?

Genuine question, the options are increase tax a lot, increase tax a bit and cut spending or cut spending. The hole in the budget needs to be filled or we're going to be in a world of **** that makes a 5 billion draconian budget look like a McCreevey spending spree.

TomRooney

diverdriver wrote: »

Look forget the rich, there aren't enough of them, that we can tax them to save this country. Someone told me a statistic. If you took ALL the money off everyone earning more than €100k a year, it would only raise €2 billion. That's not enough.

Just making the rich uncomfortable would make any difference to the rest of us. We all have to be made uncomfortable whether we like it or not.

With due respect to you, many of the rich are the very people who provide employment for the rest of us. Penalising them too much would drive them away and we would all suffer even more.

So get rid of this communist, begrudger mentality. We actually need more rich people not less, rich people spend more, create jobs and are something to aspire to for young potential entrepeneurs. Without them we might as well be North Korea.

fee fi fo fum i smell the blood of a rich man.

employers or not, a man on 2 million euro a year can easily afford to pay half his income in tax and still live a better life than 99 percent of people on this island.

whereas you take 10 or 15 percent of 25 thousand a year and it will be ten times harder to survive, bear in mind most people are just SURVIVING, when the biggest worry for the RICH is if they can still have 4 holiday homes and still afford the 2 yachts.

anyone who attemts to defend the rich in regard paying higher tax, who made there money of the backs of the poor, when times are hard, is morraly bankrupt.

TomRooney

nesf wrote: »

It's not. We're low for an EU country at approx 25% but that's almost exactly the same as the UK and 4% higher than Malta's. Worldwide there are countries with only one tax band as well as countries with two that have top rates that are less than half of ours.

i blame globalisation, and super states such as the EU, the US, and China.

before when times where bad we could always hope from one country to another because each nation had independant economy systems to an extent, so if one was bad the other might be booming, whereas now, if central europe goes downhill all europe goes downhill, if the us go down, we all go down, and countrys like china flood our markets with mass produced cheap merchandise and local merchants just cant compete with them. so i think we need to go back to basics.

we as a nation have become too dependant on the EU, and that suits the EU but not always us. the EU has become too dependant on the US also.

nesf

TomRooney wrote: »

we as a nation have become too dependant on the EU, and that suits the EU but not always us. the EU has become too dependant on the US also.

How does it suit the EU? We've been a net beneficiary for the vast majority of our time in the union and our economy is so tiny relative to the EU that what we're far more of a weight on them (i.e. in good times we can't contribute much in absolute terms because of our small size but in bad times we can do nasty things to everyone else's bond prices).

bigeasyeah

drunkmonkey wrote: »

so what you going to do about it?

exactly.nobodys gonna do anything apart from just take it.

TomRooney

nesf wrote: »

How does it suit the EU? We've been a net beneficiary for the vast majority of our time in the union and our economy is so tiny relative to the EU that what we're far more of a weight on them (i.e. in good times we can't contribute much in absolute terms because of our small size but in bad times we can do nasty things to everyone else's bond prices).

you are promoting a myth that we need the EU, explain to me if we are of such little value, why the EU wanted us as part of there union...?

it wouldnt have anything to do with over 50 billion euros worth of fishing rights around the irish coast would it...? that are now overflowing with spanish,french, and many other E.U fishing boats.

or anything to do with our highly educated and highly skilled work force would it...?

or the fact that we are tacticly in a very good position being on the furthes westerly edge of europe would it....?

or the fact they could saturate our markets with cheaper produce from other EU countrys, such as fruit and vegetables and meats, in effect destroying our own agricultural industry slowly but surely.

you see you and people all over need to take off the rose tinted EU glasses, they have gained much more from us than we can ever gain from them, to date EU funding to ireland amounts to about 30 billion, our fishing rights alone are worth almost twice this.

RiverWilde

nesf wrote: »

Would you prefer if they simply cut 5 billion in spending i.e. social welfare, pension and child benefit cuts combined with plenty of lay-offs in the public sector?

The govt. needs to go through the public services with a chainsaw. There are too many Sir Humphreys earning far too much money at our expense. These economic leeches need to go. The Civil Service is bloated and needs a good emetic. How much money could be put into proper public services if the aforementioned leeches were put out on their ear?

I would add the same for TD's - we have too many of them! The same goes for county councellors.

Riv

Akrasia

There are undoubtedly huge savings to be made from the national budget if we started at the top and challenged all the contracts and agreements that had been signed in the 'celtic tiger'. Every euro saved in expenditure is one that won't have to be raised in taxes or added to the national debt.

How much money do we pay to NTR a as part of the 'buy out' of the toll roads that dublin commuters had already paid for a dozen times over?

How much does the state spend on renting premises for quangos, departments, semi state businesses? those rents could realistically be cut by 50% overnight if the state had the courage to force it through

How much has 'Decentralisation' cost? (worst idea ever!!!) and how much do we continue to pay to rent out offices that will probably never be used?

How much do we spend on consultants reports every year? That is an element of the budget that could and should be slashed by 80%, we're already paying for civil servants, they should be compiling their own bloody reports.

We should go back to the overpaid consultants and tear up their pay increase.

We could save billions of euros from the health service by switching to generic drugs or renegotiating with the drugs companies. we already pay a multiple of the cost for exactly the same drugs compared with places like spain.

The salaries of semi state CEOs and executives are far far too high, as are the salaries of all the town managers, senior civil servants, ministers, tds, councillors, RTE presenters....


The government should make every effort target these kinds of sources first.
If its not enough, then the public should be asked to pay, and we will be more willing to do so, but only if we believe that the government are genuinely targetting the excesses that they themselves have been responsible for during their tenure.

Jamfan

Here is what is going to happen. I **** you not.

The Death Spiral has already begun.

We are facing a budget defecit of 20 to 40 billion euro, not this nonsensical 2 billion euro that the Government is talking about.

Our country is now officially a basket case zombie state. If we were not in the euro right now our money would be as worthless as Iceland's. We would all be queuing up for soup and growing cabbages and carrots in the balconies of our dogbox apartments. You don't believe me? In Ennis scores or ex bank workers and architects are queuing up for McDonalds jobs. Fact.

By the end of the year there will be at least 500.000 on the dole. Some sources are talking about over 50% unemployment. At this stage the State can no longer meet its debts and we officicially go into 'receivership'. This means that the IMF will take control: sack 50%+ of the civil service on the spot with no severance, increase PAYE to 60%+, cut the dole payments by 50% or more.

I predict a riot.

nesf

TomRooney wrote: »

you see you and people all over need to take off the rose tinted EU glasses, they have gained much more from us than we can ever gain from them, to date EU funding to ireland amounts to about 30 billion, our fishing rights alone are worth almost twice this.

I believe this has been dealt with on the EU forum before (i.e. our fisheries weren't worth 50 billion if memory serves).

Regardless this argument belongs there and not on this thread. Start a thread there if you want to debate it.

The Rooster

The Irish Times have the stats today on who pays what regarding income tax.

There are 1500 people in Ireland who earned more than €1m in 2008. Their average income was €2.4m and their average income tax hit was €800k.

6% of the people pay 40% of the income tax.