RC or Non RC

Penis Eye

just curious as to see wether the majority of people on boards applying to join the psni qualify in the RC background or the Non RC background.

results are anonymous

Penis Eye

its pretty 50 50 so far. i wonder if that is a sign that the psni is becomin a fairer representation of the religious community regarding catholic and protestant... or just because this is an irish based website!

not really conclusive.

mik77

Hi, I'm new to the site but I've been reading it for months. Found it to be really informative for all things PSNI recruitent related. Finally decided to join because I want to know...as a Non RC from the north I have heard of some Non RCs who have failed to get in, then tick the RC box 2nd or 3rd time round and get in. How have they not got caught out....more to the point is this maybe a good idea if you're desperate to get in????

PEGGYSUE'S MAMA

hey mate, as tempting as it is, it's still lying to get in isn't it? Wouldn't really be a great start to your career being caught telling porkies. The whole point of becoming a cop is to uphold the law and all that goes with it. In my opinion police forces are supposed to symbolise and exude integrity & honesty. Maybe my ideas are too naive, I don't know?:D

TheNog

You right in saying that. Truth, honesty, integrity is what is sought after in any candidate

smyff

i dare say theyd quickly be able to find that out in vetting. also, with pronouncing the letter 'h'. its one thing i hear day in and day out in my part time job. HD this, HD that. you will get found out

Shield

Just to verify that the results of this are indeed anonymous. Not even the moderators get to see who clicked what button.

manaka

Like the other guys said, honesty and integrity is what is required in the police. I believe that whatever school you attended determines your religion in this process. Its not fair on yourself or others if you try and cheat if you select RC if you're not. Its your choice, make the right one.
Just prepare yourself for the IST's, those brain-training maths games are good on the ds, theres loads of good aptitude tests on the internet which can give you a feel of what the IST is like. Google it and try some.

mik77 wrote: »

Hi, I'm new to the site but I've been reading it for months. Found it to be really informative for all things PSNI recruitent related. Finally decided to join because I want to know...as a Non RC from the north I have heard of some Non RCs who have failed to get in, then tick the RC box 2nd or 3rd time round and get in. How have they not got caught out....more to the point is this maybe a good idea if you're desperate to get in????

How do they actually know if your RC on non RC? I mean apart from what you tell them are there official records or something somewhere saying what everybody is? IIRC was there not a neither option on the application, what difference would it have made if you ticked that? I was actually quite tempted to select neither I'm not a religous person in any way and don't care to see myself as either...I'm just me thanks!

Sorry, it's just been niggling me for a while now as to how they actually know!

manaka

Deleted User wrote: »

How do they actually know if your RC on non RC? I mean apart from what you tell them are there official records or something somewhere saying what everybody is? IIRC was there not a neither option on the application, what difference would it have made if you ticked that? I was actually quite tempted to select neither I'm not a religous person in any way and don't care to see myself as either...I'm just me thanks!

Sorry, it's just been niggling me for a while now as to how they actually know!

Hey, looks like im ur stalker! I remember one of the boardies saying that they base your religion on the secondary/high school you attended. Now I am wondering if Polish people apply or other foreign nationals, how do they determine what category of religion they go under? Im sure some boardie will shed the light plugmeinbaby..

PEGGYSUE'S MAMA

i think that foreign nationals are classed as non rc, regardless of their religious beliefs, the whole point of the 50/50 thing is to increase the number of of rc officers from a northern irish background serving on the force. so if a japanese lesbian or jewish transexual were to apply, the fact that they would tick all the boxes for being a minority would make no difference cos they ain't an NI RC!

and yes it can be assumed from the schools you attended what category you fall into, also the areas in which you have lived can be used as an indicator

manaka

PEGGYSUE'S MAMA wrote: »

i think that foreign nationals are classed as non rc, regardless of their religious beliefs, the whole point of the 50/50 thing is to increase the number of of rc officers from a northern irish background serving on the force. so if a japanese lesbian or jewish transexual were to apply, the fact that they would tick all the boxes for being a minority would make no difference cos they ain't an NI RC!

and yes it can be assumed from the schools you attended what category you fall into, also the areas in which you have lived can be used as an indicator

I thought it would make more sense if they (foeign nationals) had an option to fill in their religion, a lot of poles are RC I think so it would definitely help the 50:50, but it wouldnt help the RC guys from N./Ireland who apply though.

PEGGYSUE'S MAMA

ha, ha nothing about this process actually makes sense! i'd say after the patten recommendations have been fully implemented that's when the recruitment of other ethnic minorities/backgrounds will be set for the whole positive discrimination thing. have said it before on here, while it sucks for some folk, the whole affirmative action schtick is a necessary evil, it has to be done!:D

manaka

Yeah lets start a 'Flatten the Patten Campaign!' I think we'd get a few on our side, especially if they are French!

PEGGYSUE'S MAMA

patten is long gone with a retirement package akin to sir fred's big 'un from RBS i'd imagine! would love to be invisible for a few days in recruitment to see exactly what the craic is with how everything works in these campaigns, it's like the secret service! :cool: (this is a secret squirrel to the left!)

groovetothebeat

RC but non-practising.

Think religion is a silly thing now that I have matured & seen what life is really about.

Its good to guide you and give you your morals to live your life by but thats where I draw the line in the sand. It's just abit hokis-pokis for me!

Anyone ever seen the film Zietgiest? Brings up quite a few very interesting pionts about the truth and the basis of religion and where it first came from as a whole... not just RC and Protestant!
I'd recommend it to anyone. You will be surprised!!!

smyff

manaka wrote: »

a lot of poles are RC

i think you mean members of the polish community :P

see the bit about your political views, what did people tick? i just ticked none

it may seem **** for some people having the 50:50 rule, but its got to represent the population and be fair. im sure a hell of a lot of the non rc's in the psni are non practising. im not religious at all, but some people are. i spose its better having something to believe in. so whats silly to you keeps someone getting up in the morning

PEGGYSUE'S MAMA

they didn't have a box for what i think of politicians/politics over here so i just ticked for nothing.... political perspectives are supposed to be private, i have been asked on other equality forms before to declare my religion but never who i vote for! I actually got a wee bit of paper from my current employee telling me what religion i was! how mad is that!:D

Uilleam

The current recruitment format, with the discriminatory 50/50 rule was laid down to help members from the RC community gain a placing on the PSNI training program. This was unfortunately needed to raise their numbers to a level that is representative of society in the 4th green field.
Due to the number of Protestants who apply, a larger number compared to RC applicants, it was found that on average the RC applicants did not score as highly on a 1 to 1 basis. By using the 50/50 scheme we have been able to address this issue and increase the number of RC recruits, even though it means discriminating against some of the Non RC applicants who scored highly. This was and remains a bitter pill for some, but is a necessary evil until the balance has been addressed.
I hope I did not offend some peoples sensibilities with this post, and if so, I apologise accordingly.

tickle_monster

i ticked the none box aswell, cant make my mind up and im not particularly interested in deciding either!
on the religion part i may have been baptised rc but i dont follow the organised religion thing, prefer just to believe in my own way without all the fuss, my family is mixed so wouldnt have it any other way

Track

Anyone (regardless of descent) who states they are RC are considered RC. Vetting has in the past asked for 'proof' (ie. Baptism cert, etc). If you don't consider yourself a part of any religious persuasion but may be perceived to be from a particular denomination, then vetting asks you to take all of the surrounding circumstances into consideration.

Anyone else who is Protestant, Buddhist, Islamic, etc, are classed as Non-RC.

You are either one or the other and the 50/50 is based on this; hope this helps!

DC Dibble

I've completed my application form and pronounced myself as RC, but i went to a non RC primary school and for the first two years of secondary school I attended a non RC school but for the last three years of secondary learning I was at an RC school, anyone any idea what side of the 50/50 split i'd fall into

I'd just love to know exactly how they check it out. I'm non RC but not in any way, shape or form practicing, never been to church, I went to a mixed primary school, a mixed grammar school, born and live in a relatively mixed place, and have a bit of a mixed family...Would they actually of had a clue if I said I was RC for the hell of it?? Obviously, it being the police were applying for here the last thing you should be doing is lying but a mind does wonder

Personally, I think the 50/50 thing is a load of bull, If your the best person for the job you should be doing it, religion shouldn't play a part in it in any way...positive discrimination should be banned...I could slap the person who came up with that phrase, discrimination can't be positive in my mind whichever way you look at it.

I'm rambling, stop me now! apologies.

PEGGYSUE'S MAMA

I hear ya barkin' but if it weren't for positive discrimination it would have been another few decades before old obama had a sniff at the US presidency etc, there is a need for positive discrimination whether the world likes it or not. I am likely to not be successful this year even with the reasonable merit score that have (360s), but i don' mind, lots of groundwork for the next few years has to be done if the PSNI is going to be a police force for everyone in NI.

Track

Just a quick note on how to 'prove' (if necessary) you are RC; documentation of any of the 5 Sacraments will do (ie. Baptism, 1st Communion, Confirmation, etc).

Generally I think they take your word for it though, as you are an applicant to uphold justice and enforce the law....

TSG 15

Uilleam wrote: »

The current recruitment format, with the discriminatory 50/50 rule was laid down to help members from the RC community gain a placing on the PSNI training program. This was unfortunately needed to raise their numbers to a level that is representative of society in the 4th green field.
Due to the number of Protestants who apply, a larger number compared to RC applicants, it was found that on average the RC applicants did not score as highly on a 1 to 1 basis. By using the 50/50 scheme we have been able to address this issue and increase the number of RC recruits, even though it means discriminating against some of the Non RC applicants who scored highly. This was and remains a bitter pill for some, but is a necessary evil until the balance has been addressed.
I hope I did not offend some peoples sensibilities with this post, and if so, I apologise accordingly.

The Royal Ulster Constabulary or PSNI, as its now called never discriminated against recruitment of Catholics. Potential R/C recruits were discouraged from joining due to the fact that members of the IRA from the R/C community promised to murder them if they did! Its hardly fair to use 50.50 recruitment biased against law abiding protestant applicants in order to redress an imbalance caused by the threats and actions of terrorists! The posts were always available, the IRA targetting stopped them from being availed of.

Uilleam

Just to clarify my comments regarding the 50/50 system and the past.
I do not dispute the comments of TSG15, and indeed he is correct. I did not mention the recruitment process employed by the RUC because it was a fair system, and I, like many other Catholics and indeed Protestants, were too afraid of the consequences to join during the troubles.
However, time has moved on and whilst our failure in the past to join the RUC is in part responsible for the "numbers" issue today, it does remain a problem when considered against the inclusive society we have attempted to build post-Good Friday Agreement.
Unfortunately in order to address this matter we require the current 50/50 process, no matter how distasteful and discriminatory against Protestants.
On a personal basis, I oppose any such assistance offered to give me a place in any job. I much prefer to attain such on my own merit, and indeed have been successful by virtue of a high merit placing (circa 100.)

TSG 15

Uilleam wrote: »

Just to clarify my comments regarding the 50/50 system and the past.
I do not dispute the comments of TSG15, and indeed he is correct. I did not mention the recruitment process employed by the RUC because it was a fair system, and I, like many other Catholics and indeed Protestants, were too afraid of the consequences to join during the troubles.
However, time has moved on and whilst our failure in the past to join the RUC is in part responsible for the "numbers" issue today, it does remain a problem when considered against the inclusive society we have attempted to build post-Good Friday Agreement.
Unfortunately in order to address this matter we require the current 50/50 process, no matter how distasteful and discriminatory against Protestants.
On a personal basis, I oppose any such assistance offered to give me a place in any job. I much prefer to attain such on my own merit, and indeed have been successful by virtue of a high merit placing (circa 100.)

Can you imagine the outcry anywhere else in the UK if 50.50 recruiting was introduced to address imbalace of under representation of, for instance, black officers. It just wont happen. The human rights act says that to discriminate against someone on grounds of their religeon is unlawful and it does not list Northern Ireland as an exception.

Uilleam

Again, TSG 15 has a valid point . . . not only the ECHR, but indeed nearly all employment legislation and equality and non discrimination legislation in the UK and the EU opposes any form of discrimination.
However, and this is the core element of this topic, the current recruitment policy of the PSNI, whilst discriminatory against non RC applicants, is set down as legally binding by the British Parliament in London.
This is the Parliament that claims jurisdiction over this part of the Province of Ulster (whether rightly or wrongly). As such, it is allegedly democratically representative of the people that elected the Parliament, and therefore valid in our society.
Again, I agree with the point TSG 15 makes, but as disgusting as we may find this recruitment policy, we are still bound by it and no amount of bickering or posturing will change the imposition of this policy by the British Government.
RC applicants will have an easier time getting accepted into the PSNI than Non RC, even though they will quite often score lower in testing.
This is a dead end argument that will not change for a while.

Jill77

Hi folks, newbie here

I've just applied for the 5th time - two times for the old RUC and third time as PSNI. My last application was in 2004 and I was so disillusioned by again getting rejected due to my community background (Protestant) that I gave up even trying over here. I applied to Strathclyde police in the interim as I was determined to get into the job I have wanted desperately for 13 years on pure merit and with no regard for what school I went to or whatever (I don't practise religion at all). On my second attempt at Strathclyde I got through to final fitness stage however I then had to withdraw my application following an injury which led onto spinal surgery.

Anyway, I'm well recovered and now i'm back for another go. Some great comments on here about the 50:50. I understand what positive discrimination is for, and what they are trying to acheive with it.

But what really, really gets me is that I know for a fact that non-RC applicants are getting accepted who aren't really that arsed about being in the police, it's a notion and they see it as a decent salary and something a bit different to do - please note this is not a sweeping statement to all non-RC applicants, far from it.

Then people like me and from the looks of things, a large proportion of you guys on here, who are passionate about this as a career and who would put their heart and soul into it, are getting rejected (after acheiving higher marks than some of those non-enthusiasts getting accepted).

Quite frankly, I'm not sure why I'm putting myself through it again, but I guess someday resilience might pay off!

TSG 15

Jill77 wrote: »

Hi folks, newbie here

I've just applied for the 5th time - two times for the old RUC and third time as PSNI. My last application was in 2004 and I was so disillusioned by again getting rejected due to my community background (Protestant) that I gave up even trying over here. I applied to Strathclyde police in the interim as I was determined to get into the job I have wanted desperately for 13 years on pure merit and with no regard for what school I went to or whatever (I don't practise religion at all). On my second attempt at Strathclyde I got through to final fitness stage however I then had to withdraw my application following an injury which led onto spinal surgery.

Anyway, I'm well recovered and now i'm back for another go. Some great comments on here about the 50:50. I understand what positive discrimination is for, and what they are trying to acheive with it.

But what really, really gets me is that I know for a fact that non-RC applicants are getting accepted who aren't really that arsed about being in the police, it's a notion and they see it as a decent salary and something a bit different to do - please note this is not a sweeping statement to all non-RC applicants, far from it.

Then people like me and from the looks of things, a large proportion of you guys on here, who are passionate about this as a career and who would put their heart and soul into it, are getting rejected (after acheiving higher marks than some of those non-enthusiasts getting accepted).

Quite frankly, I'm not sure why I'm putting myself through it again, but I guess someday resilience might pay off!

Says it all.

Jill77

TSG 15 wrote: »

Says it all.

Sorry did I ramble on too much??

PEGGYSUE'S MAMA

not in the slightest, well written and succinct post that probably sums up how alot of folk on here feel.... did you know strathclyde polis are on the look out for women folk to join up with them at the minute?

TSG 15

Jill77 wrote: »

Sorry did I ramble on too much??

No. not at all. I have a friend in the same position as yourself. Perfect cop material but disadvantaged by the 50.50. I totally sympathise

Jill77

PEGGYSUE'S MAMA wrote: »

not in the slightest, well written and succinct post that probably sums up how alot of folk on here feel.... did you know strathclyde polis are on the look out for women folk to join up with them at the minute?

Oooh don't tempt me, don't know if the heart could take two applications at once Anyways, my heart is here in NI, really.

TSG 15 wrote: »

No. not at all. I have a friend in the same position as yourself. Perfect cop material but disadvantaged by the 50.50. I totally sympathise

Ah, I was worried I'd said too much by the confoosed smilie!!!

This site is brilliant, I'm so glad I have found it, some great advice and support on here. Glad to be going through it this time with some likeminded folk!

Penis Eye

Jill77 wrote: »

But what really, really gets me is that I know for a fact that non-RC applicants are getting accepted who aren't really that arsed about being in the police, it's a notion and they see it as a decent salary and something a bit different to do - please note this is not a sweeping statement to all non-RC applicants, far from it.

Then people like me and from the looks of things, a large proportion of you guys on here, who are passionate about this as a career and who would put their heart and soul into it, are getting rejected (after acheiving higher marks than some of those non-enthusiasts getting accepted).

i agree with u although i dont think its a religious thing... people from both backgrounds who arent in it for the passion and are only in it for the money!

when RCs are applyin many ppl say things like aggh ull get in no bother ur a catholic... its still not easy!

i wouldnt be surprised if the news from the last week or so will put non passionate people off with their applications! certainly its made some people think twice... and no offence but im glad it does put folk off! the ones that continue on wil be the ones who will be the type of folk the same as you.. they'll have ur back and "largely" the same view as you as opposed to having someone who is only in it for the money as your partner!

Jill77

Penis Eye wrote: »

i agree with u although i dont think its a religious thing... people from both backgrounds who arent in it for the passion and are only in it for the money!

when RCs are applyin many ppl say things like aggh ull get in no bother ur a catholic... its still not easy!

i wouldnt be surprised if the news from the last week or so will put non passionate people off with their applications! certainly its made some people think twice... and no offence but im glad it does put folk off! the ones that continue on wil be the ones who will be the type of folk the same as you.. they'll have ur back and "largely" the same view as you as opposed to having someone who is only in it for the money as your partner!

Very true. Theres no doubt at all that anyone who does get accepted, regardless of religion, has scored well and worked hard. However I really believe that a strenuous interview should be part of the application process as it is in Strathclyde and most other police forces - I think that could differentiate between those applying with the right motivation and those not. I came out of my first interview with Strathclyde feeling like I'd gone 10 rounds!

Two sides to the coin of who is going to apply now - firstly, we all know theres a recession and I think someone already mentioned ont his thread that there are so many people out of work that perhaps some people will apply to PSNI who never thought about it before. On the flip side, you are right PE, the recent events in NI could well put off some applicants, particularly those younger ones who have never lived the Troubles and never thought it would be a factor again.

Hmmm. who the heck knows.

Sods law, I'll score really highly in everything and they'll turf me out at medical cos of my neck surgery! :rolleyes:

cpn

Uilleam wrote: »

Again, TSG 15 has a valid point . . . not only the ECHR, but indeed nearly all employment legislation and equality and non discrimination legislation in the UK and the EU opposes any form of discrimination.
However, and this is the core element of this topic, the current recruitment policy of the PSNI, whilst discriminatory against non RC applicants, is set down as legally binding by the British Parliament in London.
This is the Parliament that claims jurisdiction over this part of the Province of Ulster (whether rightly or wrongly). As such, it is allegedly democratically representative of the people that elected the Parliament, and therefore valid in our society.
Again, I agree with the point TSG 15 makes, but as disgusting as we may find this recruitment policy, we are still bound by it and no amount of bickering or posturing will change the imposition of this policy by the British Government.
RC applicants will have an easier time getting accepted into the PSNI than Non RC, even though they will quite often score lower in testing.
This is a dead end argument that will not change for a while.

Interesting point but not strictly true. The Human Rights Act enshrined the ECHR into British law a few years ago. This means that all British laws have to be compatable with the ECHR and so it would seem that 50:50 recruitment is in fact illegal.

I completly understand that our Police force must represent the community, its just a shame that this is the way it has to be done because it is not really fair.

DC Dibble

i wouldnt be surprised if the news from the last week or so will put non passionate people off with their applications! certainly its made some people think twice

It was that very sad news that made me finally feel that now is the time for me to go through with the application. Unless people like me and from my community apply, what hope is there ever for a normal society, and a normal police service that everyone can support. The more these nutters are marginalised and shunned by all sections of society the better.

DC Dibble

Sorry Jill777 I should have credited you with the quote I used in my last post, still getting used to this malarky

Penis Eye

DC Dibble wrote: »

Sorry Jill777 I should have credited you with the quote I used in my last post, still getting used to this malarky

Oi! I'll be taking the credit for that, thank you!!!

If everybody thought like you DC Dibble, it'd be a fine police force to work with!

DC Dibble

Penis Eye wrote: »

Oi! I'll be taking the credit for that, thank you!!!

Sorry bout that Penis Eye, credit where credits due

MrsGeneHunt

Jill77 wrote: »

Theres no doubt at all that anyone who does get accepted, regardless of religion, has scored well and worked hard.

I've read this thread with interest but sorry, cant get onboard with this statement.

From campaign 14 it will happen that people placed as many as 700 places lower than others will get training places based on religion.

Yes to get on the merit list you had to be in the top 10% of everyone who applied. Very good, pats on the back all round.

But the 440 training places should go to the top 440 scoring candidates.

This view in no way will affect how I do the job on the street. You're out there to serve the whole community. I'll arrest someone who is breaking the law and I wont give a rats ass if they're black, white, gay, lesbian or a Jewish humpbacked dwarf with a hare lip.

But not getting the career you really want, that you have proved you are capable of, purely because of religion......:mad:

I don't know if I'd have it in me to arrest a Jewish humpbacked dwarf with a hare lip ahh the mental images!

Anyways, I completely understand what they are trying to do with the 50:50 and that yes, the PSNI has to become more equally representative of the society, but surely there's a better way to do it that doesn't stop some competent applicants who in a normal, straight competition of best man (or woman!) wins would have got the place. It actually unerves me in a way to think that there are many many people out there who would of made perfect police officers who didn't get the place even thought people who maybe aren't quite as good are doing their job. Yes, we want a representative police service, but we also want the best police service, and in my mind this just isn't we right way to achieve either.

As Jill77 mentioned, it has always amazed me that there's no formal interview involved in the application process for the PSNI...there's alot you can get from a person from an interview that no amount of maths tests, role plays and physicals can.

Jill77

MrsGeneHunt wrote: »

Jill77 wrote: »

Theres no doubt at all that anyone who does get accepted, regardless of religion, has scored well and worked hard.

I've read this thread with interest but sorry, cant get onboard with this statement.

From campaign 14 it will happen that people placed as many as 700 places lower than others will get training places based on religion.

Yes to get on the merit list you had to be in the top 10% of everyone who applied. Very good, pats on the back all round.

But the 440 training places should go to the top 440 scoring candidates.

This view in no way will affect how I do the job on the street. You're out there to serve the whole community. I'll arrest someone who is breaking the law and I wont give a rats ass if they're black, white, gay, lesbian or a Jewish humpbacked dwarf with a hare lip.

But not getting the career you really want, that you have proved you are capable of, purely because of religion......:mad:

I 100% agree with you there - my original post outlines my exact same feelings on this matter. The fact of the matter is that anyone scoring in the top 10% of applications has scored well. The point of people with lower scores than others being accepted based on religion is an entirely separate one in my opinion - and one that guts me greatly.

Jill77

Deleted User wrote: »

As Jill77 mentioned, it has always amazed me that there's no formal interview involved in the application process for the PSNI...there's alot you can get from a person from an interview that no amount of maths tests, role plays and physicals can.

Agreed x a trillion

MrsGeneHunt

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyways, I completely understand what they are trying to do with the 50:50 and that yes, the PSNI has to become more equally representative of the society, but surely there's a better way to do it that doesn't stop some competent applicants who in a normal, straight competition of best man (or woman!) wins would have got the place. It actually unerves me in a way to think that there are many many people out there who would of made perfect police officers who didn't get the place even thought people who maybe aren't quite as good are doing their job. Yes, we want a representative police service, but we also want the best police service, and in my mind this just isn't we right way to achieve either.

Excellent point.

TSG 15

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know if I'd have it in me to arrest a Jewish humpbacked dwarf with a hare lip ahh the mental images!

Remember... statistically, six out of every seven Dwarfs are not Happy:rolleyes:

Jill77

TSG 15 wrote: »

Remember... statistically, six out of every seven Dwarfs are not Happy:rolleyes:

Boom boom

MrsGeneHunt

TSG 15 wrote: »

Remember... statistically, six out of every seven Dwarfs are not Happy:rolleyes:

ROTFLMAO:P

( Sorry bout the text speak PYG!!)

TSG 15

Jill77 wrote: »

Boom boom

Unless they are Dwarfs from the lucky side of the 50.50