Taxi driver protest

Taxipete29

lods wrote: »

Also park at ranks and not be available for hire.

Look if want to live in a country where protest is illegal, move to China or somewhere similar, if not just get over the fact that people have the right to protest and when its done in consultation with the Gardai no laws are broken. Do you honestly think any of this could happen if the guards werent on board??

lods

Taxipete29 wrote: »

That those drivers were trying to protect their super-normal profits. We are now trying to protect the future of the industry. Big difference.

Theres no problem with "the future of the industry" . The industry will go on and on, just not with as many drivers. Welcome to the real world.

Quint

I do have sympathy for some taxi drivers. Although, I do remember taxi drivers moaning on the radio well before deregulation.
But when you read stuff like this, it's really hard to have any sympathy at all:

Taxipete29 wrote: »

One guy or girl on there own are not ideal passengers on a saturday night as they are the most troublesome group of passengers you can have. They fall asleep and you cant wake them up, they have no money in some cases, they are more likely to get sick in the car and they are more likely to do a runner.

...a taxi driver will drive past a girl on her own at night because she mightn't have any money! :eek:
That's a disgrace, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Taxipete29

lods wrote: »

Theres no problem with "the future of the industry" . The industry will go on and on, just not with as many drivers. Welcome to the real world.

No, if reforms are not implemented what you will end up with is a far worse, far lower standard industry than you have at the moment.

When are people going to realise that if you are going to have a Taxi service, the people operating it must be able to make money doing it. Thats the real world.

Spook_ie

kearnsr wrote: »

Its an open market. There cant be to many taxis.

jack90210 wrote: »

+1

Taxi drivers need to study economics.

So if next week we decide to come into Dublin and ply for hire ( no signs on sideways, using the bus lanes ) you won't be on here complaining then? even if the city is in gridlock, after all economics will sort it out.....:cool:

Taxipete29

Quint wrote: »

I do have sympathy for some taxi drivers. Although, I do remember taxi drivers moaning on the radio well before deregulation.
But when you read stuff like this, it's really hard to have any sympathy at all:

...a taxi driver will drive past a girl on her own at night because she mightn't have any money! :eek:
That's a disgrace, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Look with the current situation as regards availabilty of Taxis, nobody gets driven past unless they are really messy drunk or some other extreme reason. I was merely pointing out why single passengers on a Sat night are not ideal. I did not say i would drive past anyone and if you re-read my post you will see that.

godtabh

Taxipete29 wrote: »

No, if reforms are not implemented what you will end up with is a far worse, far lower standard industry than you have at the moment.

When are people going to realise that if you are going to have a Taxi service, the people operating it must be able to make money doing it. Thats the real world.

if you cant make money from it cop on and do something else. no one owes you a wage

Spook_ie

confused-dazed wrote: »

after reading this i'll keep it very short. why the hell were the protesting taxi drivers allowed to use the bus lanes today. they weren't plying for hire nor did they have a fare yet i didn't see one guard on the bus lanes doing these guys. as i said it's short.
after reading hydes post it kinda gets you in the heart no matter how much people hate taxi drivers. i've always enjoyed his posts and out of all the taxi drivers that post hyde has to be the most genuine and honest one i've come across here.
have the taxi drivers not lobbied the opposition to act on their behalf.?

Which bus lanes were they, I attended from Swords and apart from turning left to access O'Connell St the bus lanes weren't used, except by buses, Gardai, ambulances, working taxis and Joe Public.....We were addressed by a member of CDFT and told explicitly that the Gardai would ticket us for using buslanes and ignoring traffic lights... If it happened elsewhere then I suggest you contact the Gardai

Taxipete29

kearnsr wrote: »

if you cant make money from it cop on and do something else. no one owes you a wage

I think you need a few more degrees as they havent improved your ability to read whats right in front of your face.

1, I never said I was owed a living

2, I have stated numerous times in other threads I am actively seeking other employment but until I leave this industry I will continue to protest and fight for what I feel are neccessary reforms in the industry.

godtabh

Taxipete29 wrote: »

2, I have stated numerous times in other threads I am actively seeking other employment but until I leave this industry I will continue to protest and fight for what I feel are neccessary reforms in the industry.

I dont think there is a degree for mind reading so I know what you said in other threads

AlekSmart

Todays protest appears to have proceeded without too much problem.
I suspect the usual media warm-up act regarding "Chaos" in the City Centre meant that many people with an alternative routing used it.

However notwithstanding the all too apparent dislike for the Public Transport trade in general,there are some very valid points raised in relation to what exactly has been delivered by the "Office of Taxi Regulation"

As delop points out......

Taxi Driving is a low skilled job that is mainly left to immigrants, It seems that locals think they cant make a living out of it, and immigrants seem happy enough, In fact I was talking to a Nigerian Taxi driver a few weeks ago, and he said there was plenty of money in it if your willing to put in the hours, and he was....

Now there is indeed a valid point here and it is one which is figuring large in the current CIE Bus companies situation too.

One of the Companies stated "Must Have" items appears to be the almost totally misunderstood implimentation of the EU Working-Time Directive,sometimes called the 48Hr week.

This places a maximum of 48Hrs as that which an employee can be asked to work in any given week (Averaged over 17 weeks)

However,when combined with serious restrictions regarding "rest-periods" this implimentation will reduce the Bus Drivers week to a flat time only basis.

Now the interesting aspect to much of this is where the greatest resistance to this Working Time Directive is coming.
It is coming from the younger and in many cases foreign employee`s who see their earnings ability being reduced at a stroke.

It is the stated intention of the EU commission to push ahead with the roll out of the Working Time Directive across the ENTIRE labour spectrum to include Self - Employed in the medium term,something which will surely result in a serious problem for the entire basis of Taxi Driving being a Full Time job at all.

There appears to be some form of shared goal at work here and it seems to be solidifying around the concept of Part-Time working and it`s introduction into areas which have hitherto been regarded as Full Time employment.

I wonder if there`s precedent for a Part Time Taxi Regulator...or for that matter a Part Time Taoiseach...?

lods

Less taxi's isn't reform. Nothing on that protest about quality of service or of the taxi's.

Taxipete29

kearnsr wrote: »

I dont think there is a degree for mind reading so I know what you said in other threads

Well then dont make assumptions without asking a simple question such as " Are you trying to get out of the industry??".

I would guess over half the drivers out there are like me and looking for work but as you know there is not alot out there, so while we are stuck we feel we have the right to try to change things so it might be possible to make a living in the future.

As this is unlikely in the short-term, I hope and pray I get something before it does happen as I have just had enough. I really enjoy taxi driving, but at the moment it would be less soul destroying if I was on the dole. Alot of drivers feel this way and its a real shame as many good drivers will be lost to the industry as things stand.

People have this perception of Taxi drivers as " stains on society" as one poster put it, but for every muppet driver you meet there is 5-10 good ones out there. You get muppets and cowboys in every industry but unfortunatly they dont get found out as easily in the taxi industry and can continue to operate. Good and legitimate operators in this business dont get the recognition they deserve for the job they do, which is not as easy as some posters make out.

I feel for guys like Hyde, whos story, unfortunatly is becoming all too common in this industry. People want an" all singing all dancing" taxi service, but yet they dont feel those operating it have a right to earn a living. Well guys you cant have it both ways. The market wont sort this one out, no matter what the armchair economists will say. It needs regulation and it needs it now.

Taxipete29

lods wrote: »

Less taxi's isn't reform. Nothing on that protest about quality of service or of the taxi's.

Cap on licences, then reform the industry. You cant reform an industry if you still have people pouring into it.

confused-dazed

Spook_ie wrote: »

Which bus lanes were they, I attended from Swords and apart from turning left to access O'Connell St the bus lanes weren't used, except by buses, Gardai, ambulances, working taxis and Joe Public.....We were addressed by a member of CDFT and told explicitly that the Gardai would ticket us for using buslanes and ignoring traffic lights... If it happened elsewhere then I suggest you contact the Gardai

F.F.S. spookie i'm not stupid and neither are most of the posters here. they were using the bus lane in the navan road and all the way down the quays as well as other parts of the city. now i know what i saw. i'm really pissed of. taxi drivers are a law unto themselves.plus there was a woman on one of the talk shows late for an appointment because there was a go slow in one of the bus lanes and guess what! a few taxi drivers came on the show saying she was seeing things well guess what! i saw the same thing as well as hundreds of other people. let me guess the taxi's using the bus lanes weren't protesting but instead their signs happened to be blown sideways by a hurricane which then followed the cab everywhere so the driver couldn't straighten the sign.
since when have taxi drivers obeyed the rules of the road. i can name hundreads of places where the law is been broken every day and post hundreds of pics of taxi's doing the same and the guards do **** all about it. the country is short of money well i know where the government can get a wind fall of at least a couple of grand a day and tens of thousands on a fri and sat night.
the answer:the taxi's
tell ya what i'll go one better and we'll see how much support you guys really have of the joe public

pseudonym1

A taxi driver was once considered a somewhat honnorable profession. If trouble was ever about and you couldnt see a gaurd find a taxi driver - my grandaunt used to say.

There used to be a trust and confidience put in the driver. I have a high regard for most taxi drivers - but recently through a couple of experiences my opinion has diminished.

No other profession has become as easily accessable as taxi-ing. With that comes some chancers and for something that requires a level of local knowledge fact that now any Joe soap is able to apply for a licence and plate - has caused huge problems for the structure of the industry and in turn how the public precieve it.

While there was a need for change more problems have been caused by instating someone who probably would have been better suited to a top bank job. Who else would put up prices in a ressession.

Majority of the older generation Taxi drivers are the decent hard working folk - slogging hard hours for pittens. And are the ones paying for/ bailing the muppets with stupid titles big salareys and not a clue on how to manage things. EG taxi regulator.
EORant

Taxipete29

confused-dazed wrote: »

F.F.S. spookie i'm not stupid and neither are most of the posters here. they were using the bus lane in the navan road and all the way down the quays as well as other parts of the city. now i know what i saw. i'm really pissed of. taxi drivers are a law unto themselves.plus there was a woman on one of the talk shows late for an appointment because there was a go slow in one of the bus lanes and guess what! a few taxi drivers came on the show saying she was seeing things well guess what! i saw the same thing as well as hundreds of other people. let me guess the taxi's using the bus lanes weren't protesting but instead their signs happened to be blown sideways by a hurricane which then followed the cab everywhere so the driver couldn't straighten the sign.
since when have taxi drivers obeyed the rules of the road. i can name hundreads of places where the law is been broken every day and post hundreds of pics of taxi's doing the same and the guards do **** all about it. the country is short of money well i know where the government can get a wind fall of at least a couple of grand a day and tens of thousands on a fri and sat night.
the answer:the taxi's
tell ya what i'll go one better and we'll see how much support you guys really have of the joe public

The protest today did not come down the Navan road so you should check your facts. Those drivers you saw were probably working but they most certainly were not on the official protest

confused-dazed

Taxipete29 wrote: »

The protest today did not come down the Navan road so you should check your facts. Those drivers you saw were probably working but they most certainly were not on the official protest

so if they were probably working please explain to me and the hundreds of posters and readers why these taxi drivers were in the bus lane going down the navan road with their signs turned completely sideways
read these words again
bus lane, completely sideways
i can't wait for this one :rolleyes:

Carawaystick

Quint wrote: »

...a taxi driver will drive past a girl on her own at night because she mightn't have any money! :eek:
That's a disgrace, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Yeah it's so sexist, like men always have cash!!!

murphaph

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Cap on licences, then reform the industry. You cant reform an industry if you still have people pouring into it.

Why? The first and most obvious thing to do is stipulate a uniform colour like Ivory and I guarantee you that many people will pull back from entering. They won't risk respraying their car to a colour that will instantly identify it as a taxi unless they are fully committed to the idea of being a taxi owner.

steadyeddie08

I drove down the quays as Taxis headed in towards town. They were all using the "Normal" lanes and traffic was moving quite well.

The only Taxis who were using the bus lane were those who were working.

Taxipete29

confused-dazed wrote: »

so if they were probably working please explain to me and the hundreds of posters and readers why these taxi drivers were in the bus lane going down the navan road with their signs turned completely sideways
read these words again
bus lane, completely sideways

How many taxis???? The official starting points for the protest were

Airside
Liffey Valley
Stillorgan SC

None of these start points would take you down the navan road. What I believe you saw were a few random drivers possibly heading into the protest and yes they were breaking the law if they were doing what you say, but your op made it sound like they were driving en masse down the bus lanes. FWIW I heard the story about the girl being late for her appointment and she was driving herself so how would drivers on a go slow in a bus lane(if they were, I do agree they were breaking the law) effect her as she cant drive in them anyway.

Taxipete29

murphaph wrote: »

Why? The first and most obvious thing to do is stipulate a uniform colour like Ivory and I guarantee you that many people will pull back from entering. They won't risk respraying their car to a colour that will instantly identify it as a taxi unless they are fully committed to the idea of being a taxi owner.

Why are you obsessed with the colour thing?? Of course its a possible course of action, but would only be done in conjunction with uniform car models and would be manufacturer spec colour, not a re-spray.

confused-dazed

roof sign turned sideways ,driving in bus lanes = protesting taxi's. i dont care where it started all i know is there was a protest staged for today. as far as i'm concerned me and alot of people saw these guys using bus lanes and driving like they normally do. you sayin they shouldn't and i'm saying they were. protesting taxi's are not permitted to use bus lanes but they did and the guards did **** all about it. plain and simple.

Spook_ie

confused-dazed wrote: »

F.F.S. spookie i'm not stupid and neither are most of the posters here. they were using the bus lane in the navan road and all the way down the quays as well as other parts of the city. now i know what i saw. i'm really pissed of. taxi drivers are a law unto themselves.plus there was a woman on one of the talk shows late for an appointment because there was a go slow in one of the bus lanes and guess what! a few taxi drivers came on the show saying she was seeing things well guess what! i saw the same thing as well as hundreds of other people. let me guess the taxi's using the bus lanes weren't protesting but instead their signs happened to be blown sideways by a hurricane which then followed the cab everywhere so the driver couldn't straighten the sign.
since when have taxi drivers obeyed the rules of the road. i can name hundreads of places where the law is been broken every day and post hundreds of pics of taxi's doing the same and the guards do **** all about it. the country is short of money well i know where the government can get a wind fall of at least a couple of grand a day and tens of thousands on a fri and sat night.
the answer:the taxi's
tell ya what i'll go one better and we'll see how much support you guys really have of the joe public

TBH what you saw is of no concern to me, I state factualy what happened on the route from Airside to Merrion Square, we were told not to use the bus lanes and not to run redlights or block junctions and to follow any Gardai directions and that's what we did. I can't speak for the other two routes as I wasn't there..

Picture of protesting taxis NOT in the bus lane on O'Connell St

picture curtesy of taxieire.lefora.com

Surprisingly though it would seem that you were able to be on two of the routes at the same time...

they were using the bus lane in the navan road and all the way down the quays

plus there was a woman on one of the talk shows late for an appointment because there was a go slow in one of the bus lanes and guess what! a few taxi drivers came on the show saying she was seeing things well guess what! i saw the same thing as well as hundreds of other people

Just happened that the women was talking about an appointment at St Vincent's ( obviously that must be the one on the Navan Road.....)

the guards do **** all about it.

perhaps you should address that one to the Gardai at...
Carriage Office, Dublin Castle, Dublin 2.
Tel: +353 1 666 9850
or
Garda National Traffic Bureau, Garda Headquarters, Phoenix Park, Dublin 8.
Tel:+353 1 666 1792/1954
E-mail: traffic@garda.ie

I have no fears about you contacting either and indeed if taxi drivers are flouting the law and the Gardai are colluding with them, then as a law abiding citizen it would be your duty to report this and I insist that you do....If only to the fact it would mean less competition on the roads for me.:cool:

tell ya what i'll go one better and we'll see how much support you guys really have of the joe public

Oh please tell, it's so mean of you to infer vaugue threats!!


Edit Just read the other replies and must concur after reading them, the Navan Rd would not have been an approved route and as such was probably unpoliced, not an excuse but if the drivers didn't attend a start point it would be difficult to tell them....

Spook_ie

Carawaystick wrote: »

Yeah it's so sexist, like men always have cash!!!

yeah but she's probably pig ugly as well.......:)

Spook_ie

murphaph wrote: »

Why? The first and most obvious thing to do is stipulate a uniform colour like Ivory and I guarantee you that many people will pull back from entering. They won't risk respraying their car to a colour that will instantly identify it as a taxi unless they are fully committed to the idea of being a taxi owner.

TBH I wouldn't ( and I suspect a lot of other drivers ) have a problem with a single color, as long as it's not some vomit shade of green or yellow, might be far easier though just to have a broad checkered band down the side of the car

godtabh

Taxipete29 wrote: »

I would guess over half the drivers out there are like me and looking for work but as you know there is not alot out there, so while we are stuck we feel we have the right to try to change things so it might be possible to make a living in the future.

Who is making the assumptions how?

I don’t dispute your right to protest but I don’t go believe your proposals are correct and a benefit to the public you ultimately serve.

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Cap on licences, then reform the industry. You cant reform an industry if you still have people pouring into it.

You can easily reform the industry while still allowing people to join.

The construction industry from a H&S point of view was reformed without capping the number of builders entering.

I'm sure there are many other examples of this in other industries

Taxipete29

kearnsr wrote: »

Who is making the assumptions how?
When I make assumptions, they are usually based on a large enough sample of an appropriate group. I know alot of drivers, half of them are looking for a job, so probably safe to say it extends industry wide.
I don’t dispute your right to protest but I don’t go believe your proposals are correct and a benefit to the public you ultimately serve.
Fine thats your opinion, doesnt mean its right or I agree but only time will tell.


You can easily reform the industry while still allowing people to join.

The construction industry from a H&S point of view was reformed without capping the number of builders entering.

I'm sure there are many other examples of this in other industries

Again with comparisons that are not like for like, how is the construction industry anyway similar to the Taxi Industry???

I know you need to halt licences until reforms are brought in because I know the way the industry works and I know the challenges that will be faced by major reform and you cant reform this industry from the ground up, to the expense of the single operator if none of those people can afford to implement your changes. Its that simple.

Taxipete29

confused-dazed wrote: »

roof sign turned sideways ,driving in bus lanes = protesting taxi's. i dont care where it started all i know is there was a protest staged for today. as far as i'm concerned me and alot of people saw these guys using bus lanes and driving like they normally do. you sayin they shouldn't and i'm saying they were. protesting taxi's are not permitted to use bus lanes but they did and the guards did **** all about it. plain and simple.

Well then your beef is with those drivers and the guards. We are not disagreeing with you, if thats what you saw it was illegal.

godtabh

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Again with comparisons that are not like for like, how is the construction industry anyway similar to the Taxi Industry???

I know you need to halt licences until reforms are brought in because I know the way the industry works and I know the challenges that will be faced by major reform and you cant reform this industry from the ground up, to the expense of the single operator if none of those people can afford to implement your changes. Its that simple.

Industries don’t have to be the same to realise change can happen without limiting participation.

Taxipete29

kearnsr wrote: »

Industries don’t have to be the same to realise change can happen without limiting participation.

The change will happen far quicker and with more effectiveness if you TEMPORARILY stop issuing licences. If you stopped for a second and considered that people who work in the industry might know more about this than you do and that your really only arguing here because you dont like Taxi drivers and have a problem with them getting anything you dont personally agree with. Its prejudice pure and simple and has nothing at all to do with fact.

murphaph

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Why are you obsessed with the colour thing?? Of course its a possible course of action, but would only be done in conjunction with uniform car models and would be manufacturer spec colour, not a re-spray.

I'm obsessed with it because taxi drivers have historically resisted it because they like 1) having a 'civilian' car to do the shopping in and 2) it dramatically reduces the possible resale value and all but eliminates the possibility of 'clocking' an old taxi with 400,000 o the clock down to 100,000 and selling it on to some unsuspecting buyer (not that taxi drivers would do this but those in the motor trade know it goes on) but most importantly it instantly recognises a taxi as being a taxi. Why is Ireland perhaps the only country in the world, where taxis are just normal cars with an oul sign stuck on the roof?

You don't need uniform models to introduce uniform colour. Just copy the german Elfenbein which a readily available 2 pack finish and just happens to also be available as a factory finish on loads of cars in Europe due to taxi demand in Germany. The protesting drivers yesterday could voluntarily adopt this colour tomorrow without any regulator telling them to do it Pete, but they won't. Why not?

murphaph

Spook_ie wrote: »

not an excuse but if the drivers didn't attend a start point it would be difficult to tell them....

Tell them what? Not to drive in a bus lane while not carrying a fare paying passenger? They know well this is illegal but as has been done to death and is WELL KNOWN, taxi drivers regularly do this sort of thing and get away with it. They'd not get away with it with the Met or PSNI, just our amateur Gardai, so they do-just another reason why the public will never support bleating taxi drivers.

Taxipete29

murphaph wrote: »

I'm obsessed with it because taxi drivers have historically resisted it because they like 1) having a 'civilian' car to do the shopping in and 2) it dramatically reduces the possible resale value and all but eliminates the possibility of 'clocking' an old taxi with 400,000 o the clock down to 100,000 and selling it on to some unsuspecting buyer (not that taxi drivers would do this but those in the motor trade know it goes on) but most importantly it instantly recognises a taxi as being a taxi. Why is Ireland perhaps the only country in the world, where taxis are just normal cars with an oul sign stuck on the roof?
The re-sale value on Taxis is very low without a uniform colour. Its very easy to tell if a car has been a taxi so thats really a non argument. The reason Ireland is the only country that does this is that the regulator has not done her job. These changes should of been implemented when the industry was de-regulated and then you wouldnt have the prolems you have now

You don't need uniform models to introduce uniform colour. Just copy the german Elfenbein which a readily available 2 pack finish and just happens to also be available as a factory finish on loads of cars in Europe due to taxi demand in Germany. The protesting drivers yesterday could voluntarily adopt this colour tomorrow without any regulator telling them to do it Pete, but they won't. Why not?

How has the industry resisted this change?? The unions who hold the industry seats on the Taxi commision do not speak for the majority of drivers and have no mandate to represent the views of the majority of operators. Unions have resisted this change as they have a vested interest in that they rent out cars to drivers for large sums every week. They also have shares( well at least one does) in one of the largest radio firms. This is a serious conflict of intererst. So tell me, how can anything they resist be what the majority of drivers want.

As for changing it ourselves, why should some drivers put themselves at a financial disadvantage to the drivers who wouldnt do it unless it was made an actual regulation??? It doesnt make sense. Also there is a regulator who gets paid alot money to do this job, we are not going to start doing it for her. In fact the sooner the minister realises that this regulator is incapable of doing her job the better and get in some one who will bring real reform to the industry. And before you say it, No I do not think it should be someone from the Taxi industry but it should be someone with a background in Transport

Taxipete29

murphaph wrote: »

Tell them what? Not to drive in a bus lane while not carrying a fare paying passenger? They know well this is illegal but as has been done to death and is WELL KNOWN, taxi drivers regularly do this sort of thing and get away with it. They'd not get away with it with the Met or PSNI, just our amateur Gardai, so they do-just another reason why the public will never support bleating taxi drivers.

So people dont support drivers because the guards wont do their job properly??? Surely your argument is with the guards and not drivers in this instance??

This would be like saying it was all the Learner drivers fault that they broke the law for years when it was the fact that guards never enforced this law that made it acceptable.

Jip

I've asked this question before as has many others and I'll ask it again since TaxiPete has been so vociferous as of late so he might actually answer it this time.

Why should there be a cap on the number of taxis on the roads but there be no cap for any other profession in the country where there are many more redundancies ?

Don't give me the crap about only looking for a cap until things are sorted out as thats horse ****.

Simple question really.

Ham'nd'egger

murphaph wrote: »

I'm obsessed with it because taxi drivers have historically resisted it because they like having a 'civilian' car to do the shopping in

So your insistence on this is of of bitterness. Good man, constructive as ever and based on facts and not personal feelings;)

murphaph wrote: »

it dramatically reduces the possible resale value and all but eliminates the possibility of 'clocking' an old taxi with 400,000 o the clock down to 100,000 and selling it on to some unsuspecting buyer (not that taxi drivers would do this but those in the motor trade know it goes on) but most importantly it instantly recognises a taxi as being a taxi.

The Regulator has said in the past that a select type of car isn't the way to go due to reasons of free trade. Maybe it needs to be looked at again but that's her offices call and we know that means they researched it long and hard:rolleyes:

murphaph wrote: »

Why is Ireland perhaps the only country in the world, where taxis are just normal cars with an oul sign stuck on the roof?

Most countries use conventional cars as taxis; it's the exception to see a specified vehicle as in London; close to home, many parts of the UK use family cars as taxis including the North.

murphaph wrote: »

You don't need uniform models to introduce uniform colour. Just copy the german Elfenbein which a readily available 2 pack finish and just happens to also be available as a factory finish on loads of cars in Europe due to taxi demand in Germany. The protesting drivers yesterday could voluntarily adopt this colour tomorrow without any regulator telling them to do it Pete, but they won't. Why not?

While I have no problem with a uniform colour per se, bear in mind that the cost of getting cars coated or sprayed the requisite shade would be enormous. It would take years to phase in unless you either apply it to just new cars in which case it takes a long time to implement.

MOH

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Most drivers are in favour of a more difficult test.
Im not racist by any means but how do drivers pass a test when they dont know where Stephans Green is??? And these stories of immigrant drivers not having a clue where they are going are not urban legends. There has been rumours for a long time that immigrant drivers dont need to score as highly on the test to pass as Irish ones do, how true this is I dont know, but they seem to have some merit considering the appaling knowledge of alot of immigrant taxi drivers.

The only problems I've ever had with drivers not knowing where places are has been with Irish drivers:
- not knowing O'Dwyer's, or Mount Street, or Merrion Square;
- going past the Malahide Road, up the Howth Road, and back along Collins Ave to get to Donnycarney;
- driving around for 20 minutes trying to find Pembroke Lane;

I've actually no problem with a driver not knowing where a particular street is - no one's going to know all of them. But most of the immigrant drivers I've had have SatNavs, so at least they've some chance of finding the place. The Irish drivers I've had problems with are the ones who are too cheap to even shell out €12 for a street atlas of Dublin.

Taxipete29 wrote: »

One guy or girl on there own are not ideal passengers on a saturday night as they are the most troublesome group of passengers you can have. They fall asleep and you cant wake them up, they have no money in some cases, they are more likely to get sick in the car and they are more likely to do a runner.

You give out about people making generalisations about taxi drivers, then come out with this?! And how is one person on a Saturday night more likely to get sick than four?

Spook_ie wrote: »

Picture of protesting taxis NOT in the bus lane on O'Connell St

picture curtesy of taxieire.lefora.com

Why do the last 3 cars in that picture have their hazard lights on?

murphaph

If (and it's a big if given the very low turnaout for the protest yesterday) there is a huge number of 'professional' taximen who want the part-timers and 'toe-dippers' out of the industry then there is a clear financial incentive for you 'professional' drivers to unilaterally opt for a common colour scheme to identify yourselves as 'professional' taxi drivers. The part timers and toe dippers will baulk at the idea of turning their private/family car into a shade of beige like Germany and will pull back from making that commitment that you professional drivers are prepared to make. If there are enough professional drivers out there who adopt the colour scheme, it will become a brand very rapidly and people will look for that colour car when hailing a cab. They will be suspicious of the 'un branded' cars with just a roof sign. Branding is very important. Why wait for the inneffective regulator when you can all get together and do this for yourselves. Those who don't will suffer from being unbranded.

Taxipete29

Jip wrote: »

I've asked this question before as has many others and I'll ask it again since TaxiPete has been so vociferous as of late so he might actually answer it this time.

Why should there be a cap on the number of taxis on the roads but there be no cap for any other profession in the country where there are many more redundancies ?

Don't give me the crap about only looking for a cap until things are sorted out as thats horse ****.

Simple question really.

The public require a Taxi service, its essential. I dont think thats in dispute. In order to provide that PUBLIC service operators, must be able to make money.

Take the example of Dublin Bus. They are heavily subsidised by the state as they provide buses on routes that would be financially unworkable for a private operator. Thats fine as its a social responsibility and I dont have a problem with it.

Im not saying Taxis should be subsidised, far from it but in order to provide essential services in the private sector where the Government controls the barriers to entry, operators must first be able to cover their costs and secondly be able to make a living.

Under normal market conditions this would probably started to even out already, but the exception in the Taxi Industry at the moment is the barriers to entry are low, but exiting the industry is quite hard in the current climate.

There are very few jobs for anyone out there, so alot of drivers are stuck working long hours for very little reward until something else comes along as they dont have the luxury of a redundancy package or the dole even. Its a vicious circle that artificially keeps many drivers in the industry who would otherwise exit quite freely if they had some thing else.

To further compound this problem, there are many more entrants to the market as people are layed off and feel that driving a Taxi for very little is preferrable to the dole. This while admirable does nothing to improve standards and only makes it harder to make a living in the industry.

Everyone in this country( except the elite few) is suffering in some way, but to unfairly add to the burden of one group simply becasue you dont like them very much or feel they have been creaming it for years( we havent, that was a different generation of drivers) is not acceptable.

There are several jobs I would like to do and Im qualified to do, but I cant as the industries are not hiring due to the downturn. Thats fine, its a natural barrier to entry but why should the industry Im currently in not able to do the same and protect the workers it has rather than just filling the streets with taxis so those people dont show up on the live register, which has more to with them not introducing a cap than it has to do with free market economics

murphaph

Taxipete29 wrote: »

So people dont support drivers because the guards wont do their job properly??? Surely your argument is with the guards and not drivers in this instance??

This would be like saying it was all the Learner drivers fault that they broke the law for years when it was the fact that guards never enforced this law that made it acceptable.

Nonsensical argument. It's not the guards' fault that lots if taxi drivers regularly flout the rules of the road despite being 'professional' drivers. It's not the guards' fault that learner drivers regularly break the law and drive unaccompanied. It is a failing on behalf of the guards that they don't enforce these laws more comprehensively but that hasn't somehow made these things legal. You are saying it's ok to break the law so long as nobody catches you!

keefg

murphaph wrote: »

If (and it's a big if given the very low turnaout for the protest yesterday) there is a huge number of 'professional' taximen who want the part-timers and 'toe-dippers' out of the industry then there is a clear financial incentive for you 'professional' drivers to unilaterally opt for a common colour scheme to identify yourselves as 'professional' taxi drivers. The part timers and toe dippers will baulk at the idea of turning their private/family car into a shade of beige like Germany and will pull back from making that commitment that you professional drivers are prepared to make. If there are enough professional drivers out there who adopt the colour scheme, it will become a brand very rapidly and people will look for that colour car when hailing a cab. They will be suspicious of the 'un branded' cars with just a roof sign. Branding is very important. Why wait for the inneffective regulator when you can all get together and do this for yourselves. Those who don't will suffer from being unbranded.

Very true.

murphaph

Taxipete29 wrote: »

To further compound this problem, there are many more entrants to the market as people are layed off and feel that driving a Taxi for very little is preferrable to the dole.

Is it preferable to the dole?

Jip

Taxipete, you still didn't answer the question. Everyone knows that taxis are a public service but it still does not give them what drivers think is a right to limit the number of you out there so that you can earn an easy living. In fact the more taxis the better it is for the public.

Taxi drivers have already lost the publics support and as long as they same old argument is trotted out nothings going to change. Boo hoo, it's hard to make a living as a taxi these days, what job isn't. People have invested years of their lives studying to be one thing or another only to loose their jobs in the down turn. People still in the same industry who have taken pay cuts don't go looking for an illegal form of protectionism to stop this happening to them.

It's life, live with it.

Taxipete29

MOH wrote: »

The only problems I've ever had with drivers not knowing where places are has been with Irish drivers:
- not knowing O'Dwyer's, or Mount Street, or Merrion Square;
- going past the Malahide Road, up the Howth Road, and back along Collins Ave to get to Donnycarney;
- driving around for 20 minutes trying to find Pembroke Lane;
Well then we just need a harder test full stop, but just because the only incidents you have had are with Irish drivers does not make my point any less valid
I've actually no problem with a driver not knowing where a particular street is - no one's going to know all of them. But most of the immigrant drivers I've had have SatNavs, so at least they've some chance of finding the place. The Irish drivers I've had problems with are the ones who are too cheap to even shell out €12 for a street atlas of Dublin.
Again the need for a harder test is paramount. Sat Navs do not know the quickest route to every location or where the traffic blackspots to avoid are. You get this through local knowledge.

Of course no one can know every street, but alot of immigrant drivers cant even bring you to specific areas of dublin without direction and saying they have a sat nav is unacceptable as they are supposed to know. What happens if the sat nav breaks????



You give out about people making generalisations about taxi drivers, then come out with this?! And how is one person on a Saturday night more likely to get sick than four?

From my experience, 2 or more people in the car means that if one is going to get sick, the other can ask the driver to pull over quickly, its hard to do this with a mouth full of vomit. And as alot of people on their own tend to sit in the back of Taxis, the drivers cant always see what is going on with them.



Why do the last 3 cars in that picture have their hazard lights on?

No idea, you would have to ask them

Taxipete29

murphaph wrote: »

Nonsensical argument. It's not the guards' fault that lots if taxi drivers regularly flout the rules of the road despite being 'professional' drivers. It's not the guards' fault that learner drivers regularly break the law and drive unaccompanied. It is a failing on behalf of the guards that they don't enforce these laws more comprehensively but that hasn't somehow made these things legal. You are saying it's ok to break the law so long as nobody catches you!

No you are complaining about the guards not enforcing the law and for years every learner in the country flouted the law because it was accpetable and not enforced. If a law is not enforced then it will over time become accepted. Thas a fact, doesnt mean I agree with it

Taxipete29

Jip wrote: »

Taxipete, you still didn't answer the question. Everyone knows that taxis are a public service but it still does not give them what drivers think is a right to limit the number of you out there so that you can earn an easy living. In fact the more taxis the better it is for the public.

Taxi drivers have already lost the publics support and as long as they same old argument is trotted out nothings going to change. Boo hoo, it's hard to make a living as a taxi these days, what job isn't. People have invested years of their lives studying to be one thing or another only to loose their jobs in the down turn. People still in the same industry who have taken pay cuts don't go looking for an illegal form of protectionism to stop this happening to them.

It's life, live with it.

If you dont like the answer or agree with it dont ask the question, it only leads to disappointment.

Do you not think that the amount of taxis on the streets at the moment is sufficent to meet public demand??

Jip

Eh, I didn't get an answer. Should every other industry where jobs are being lost have a cap on the number of people allowed to work in that industry ?

Actually being lost now, not an industry like yours where it's now just harder to do as little work for maximum profit that you enjoyed for so many years.

keefg

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Do you not think that the amount of taxis on the streets at the moment is sufficent to meet public demand??

In my opinion there are too many taxis around at the wrong time so maybe they need to be restricted to specific hours/days.

As a taxi driver, how would you feel about this as a solution?

Instead of a cap on the total number of licences, that there is just a restriction on the hours a newly plated driver can work.

For example if you received your taxi plate before let's say 2002 you display a green coloured sign on top of your cab and there are no restrictions to what time of the day & weekend you can work at, it's your choice.

Any plates issued between 2002 & 2009 are issued with a blue sign and may only work weekdays + Friday nights (until 4am) only.

New plates issued this year get a purple sign can only work weekdays (up to 1800 on Friday).

That might dissuade new drivers coming into the market "just" to work the prime Thurs, Fri, Sat night shifts and leave those shifts available to the "pro/full time" drivers.

The reason for the different coloured roof plates is for the Gardai to easily identify a driver who is working an illegal shift.