Taxi driver protest

MOH

Taxipete29 wrote: »

I find the assertion that part-time drivers are more likely to provide a peak-time service as ridiculous. Saturday night accounts for anything up to a third of a drivers earnings for the week. I know plenty of drivers dont work them but they tend to be older drivers who dont need to earn as much and work longer hours during the week and daytime saturday. The company I am affiliated with has 130 drivers and on sat night there is usually about 75 working. This is reflective of the normal % throughout companies in dublin that I would have knowledge of( which is quite a few).

I read that as part-time drivers are more likely to provide a service at peak than off-peak; I don't think it's saying that they provide more of a peak service than full time drivers.

amtaxi wrote: »

Have read the goodboy report - oh my god where do these guys get their figures?

The first comment I have is that in their report they say on a graph that there has been an increase of about 200 licences for Jan-Feb 09 - yet in their conclusions they say that as of end 2008 they are 27,429 licences and end of Feb 09 there are 27,383 licences - this figure suggests a decrease of of 46 licences - if these idiots can't do simple maths how are any of their other figures credible?

If you're talking about figure 4.4, it clearly states underneath that this only shows new licenses issued, not overall net changes in license numbers.

Another figure not highlighted is the transfer of licences from 2007 and 2008 has increased by almost 50% from 1328 to 1993 - this to me would indicated that like the rest of us these people could no longer make a living from driving a taxi!! Of course the idiots at goodbody put this down to retirements and other employment!!

"It is not possible to determine what proportion of exits is due to decisions to retire or change profession against early exits"

This report suggests that the only ones working 75 hours a week are those with 2 jobs - not true for many of us!

It clearly states that 8% of all cab drivers work 75+ hours a week.
16% of all taxi drivers are part time, and even if all of those have a second job, less than 20% of them work 75+ hours. Thats under 4% of all drivers. So more cab-only drivers work 75+ hours than those with 2 jobs. There's nowhere in the report that in any way claims that the only ones working 75+ hours have two jobs.

Re driver earnings - where do they get their "independent" figures from suggesting that after costs we earn 40 grand - and since in the next paragraph they give the figures reported by taxi drivers in their survey they are calling us liars!! They base their figure of net earnings of €11 an hour on these independent figures - but using the realistic figures our hourly pay is more like €4.57 which almost half the minimum wage. They have twisted figures to suit their own agenda - suppose they thought us "uneducated" taxi drivers would not be able to decipher their badly laid out report!

They base their figures on the 20% of surveyed drivers who bothered to respond, and on the figures supplied by customers on what they estimate they pay per average journey. And they then estimate after costs figures based on each. They then take the midpoint between the two and use an average of 52 hours work per week to calculate the €11/hour. They clearly state how everything is calculated and where the figures come from.

I would also question their figures in relation to the number of taxis working in each county? How do they know this? I know of serveral rented cars whose owners live in one area yet actual taxi works in another!!

It's clearly stated that the county breakdown of taxis may be inaccurate due to cars registered in one region working in another.



I can't be bothered checking the rest of your claiims. You seem to have just skimmed the report and then misquoted it repeatedly to suit your point of view.

spiderpig101

Hey lads I have fare for you's it rite off the end of Howth pier, whens the next protest, I want to have time to make my "Taxi drivers are c#@ts" poster

confused-dazed

Spook_ie wrote: »

I think you need to go to specsavers, that picture isn't of any taxis blocking O'Connell St rank, they happen to be driving in an orderly fashion down past the spire, perhaps this is why you seem to think lots of taxi drivers break laws, because you are unaware that the law isn't being broken. Must hope that you continue to use the bus rather than drive or cycle to work, you would seem to be another potential hazzard we could do without....

fair enough i hold my hand up i didn't look at your picture properly but i will ask the same question as i saw most city centre ranks closed of by protesting taxi drivers.
why did your colleagues stop other taxi drivers that weren't protesting from using the o'connel street rank as well as all the other ranks that were blocked.?

Taxipete29

kearnsr wrote: »

So only the taxi drivers who are making a living from it responded but their opinion doesn’t count?

I doubt it. I wouldn’t think that the report was based on responses only

It was based on a number of things including a household survey, telephone survey, survey from the Irish Wheelchair Association and the driver survey.

My point is this report only managed to survey( this was the drivers own fault) 500 odd drivers. There are 25000 in Ireland. This means they got responses from 2% of the drivers in the country. This is not a large enough sample to gauge an accurate mean for drivers earnings and working hours.

If they wanted to do this properly they should of sent out surveys to all drivers, a 20% response rate would of yielded 5000 results and a far more accurate figures would of been determined.

I never said their opinion didnt count, but its not neccessarily a fair reflection of all drivers.

Taxipete29

MOH wrote: »

I read that as part-time drivers are more likely to provide a service at peak than off-peak; I don't think it's saying that they provide more of a peak service than full time drivers.

Im sorry but you read it wrong so.

"Part-time drivers are much more likely to supply services on days of peak demand than are their full-time counterparts"

This is from page 8 of the report.

Calina

spiderpig101 infracted. Similar style posts will potentially meet with bans in the future. Bear it in mind if you're trying to be funny and failing badly.

As you were.

amtaxi

I only know of 1 driver who received this questionaire - they contacted Goodbody in relation to the way the questions were asked. They felt that the questions asked and choice of answers to give did not acurately describe their situation. By only allowing respondants to answer by the choices given they felt was unfair. They asked if it was possible to give other answers and were told no!

Taxipete29

Terrontress wrote: »

Again this comes down to euros and cents. It seems that reason after reason is given for excluding new or certain groups of drivers citing health and safety, car standards, route knowledge etc etc. But each time the surface is scratched it is that the existing drivers want these groups excluded so that they can make more money. I'm sure every person working to make a quid would like to see his competition eliminated but that is not how things work outside of North Korea.

I was talking about the assertion that part-timers provide more of a service at peak times than full-timers. How does what you say above have anything to do with that????

spiderpig101

Calina wrote: »

spiderpig101 infracted. Similar style posts will potentially meet with bans in the future. Bear it in mind if you're trying to be funny and failing badly.

As you were.

BTW I wasn't trying to be funny, I will be making a poster saying such, taxi divers have absolutely no support, and frankly the blatant racist ****e some were coming out with was a joke and definitely won't be raising their popularity.

Taxipete29

MOH wrote: »

They base their figures on the 20% of surveyed drivers who bothered to respond, and on the figures supplied by customers on what they estimate they pay per average journey. And they then estimate after costs figures based on each. They then take the midpoint between the two and use an average of 52 hours work per week to calculate the €11/hour. They clearly state how everything is calculated and where the figures come from.

I find fault with how they calculated this. Drivers said their average fare was €9,the household survey concluded it was €15. Personally my average fare is €10.

This does not take into account the fact that alot of people only use a Taxi at the weekend when they are going out and when the average fare would actually be around €15. This does not account for all the journeys that are taken mid-week by more regular users whose average fare would be around €10

Calina

spiderpig101 banned for one week.

amtaxi

Dublin drivers may earn more per fare because of traffic - in other areas you're lucky to get a fiver!!

godtabh

amtaxi wrote: »

Dublin drivers may earn more per fare because of traffic - in other areas you're lucky to get a fiver!!

Out side of dublin the cost of living is less and the fiver will last longer

amtaxi

kearnsr wrote: »

Out side of dublin the cost of living is less and the fiver will last longer

I don't believe the cost of living is less in dublin than where I live. The houses are as expensive and the last time I checked the pint of milk, sliced pan was the same. Don't know about the price of a pint of beer as I don't drink. Anyway having read your previous thread I understand that you don't have a love of taxi drivers - if you read mine you might realise that I am a reasonable person who works hard - you might also see that my overall opinion differs slightly from others - what a boring world it would be if we were all the same!! While my opinion may differ from some of the others I do acknowledge their rights to protest just as I acknowledge the rights of the public service to protest even though I may not agreed with them. I will however not purposely go online and slag off other people... but that's just me! :rolleyes:

amtaxi

Terrontress wrote: »

I think the health and safety element around part time drivers working too many hours is covered in existing legislation. I'm not sure about Ireland but there have been people in the UK prosecuted for causing an accident due to tiredness. If the law exists on the Irish statute book then there is no need to bring in this restriction.

It would be like imposing a restriction on not driving a taxi if you have been in a pub in the last 24 hours. The legislation is there to prevent drink driving. If you fall foul of that then you are dealt with on that basis.

Unfortunately the law regarding working hours does not apply to taxi drivers or to part time drivers who also work fulltime in another job .. there is legislation to say you should not drive more than 3 x 11 hours in a row without taking a 24hr break, but taxi drivers and part time drivers with other job do not come under this as they are not "driving" for a full 11 hours in a row - personally I feel more tired when sitting on a rank for hours than when I'm kept going. Law does need to be changed to include all of these people including full time taxi drivers - but then again there is little or no inforcement of current laws..

MOH

Taxipete29 wrote: »

I find fault with how they calculated this. Drivers said their average fare was €9,the household survey concluded it was €15. Personally my average fare is €10.

This does not take into account the fact that alot of people only use a Taxi at the weekend when they are going out and when the average fare would actually be around €15. This does not account for all the journeys that are taken mid-week by more regular users whose average fare would be around €10

I'm not saying the figures are right - I was replying to amtaxi's post asking where the figures came from. It does give a detailed explanation of how the calculation was made, and enough information to draw your own conclusions from it. Personally, I'd assume the figure from the household survey to be over-inflated - most people are more likely to remember an expensive fare over a cheap one, and even if they're trying to be honest will probably err towards a higher average fare.

Is you average fare really €10? It's very rare I'd ever get out of a taxi and pay less than that, and most of my journeys are under 15 minutes. And for fares of 5 or 6 euro, I'm going to walk rather than take a taxi. Not calling you a liar, just surprised.

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Im sorry but you read it wrong so.

"Part-time drivers are much more likely to supply services on days of peak demand than are their full-time counterparts"

This is from page 8 of the report.

You're right, sorry. It actually says that at least three times in the report. I can't find what bit I was reading, must have imagined it.

amtaxi

Worked 14 hours last night and earned 7.45 per hour - best hourly rate this week.. Apart from that one of the major reasons I'm protesting is the lack of enforcement of the law in place as I believe if all the bad ones were gone it would improve for the rest of us..........

I've already post the following on a different thread but it may help to explain to you why soooo many of us are fustrated and if joe soap public was really aware of what is genuinely happening evey night of the week they might feel different.......

""Consider this - Private car with taxi roof sign, plying for hire on rank, CTV in town,Garda contact three times and given details and location. Garda contacted again when car picked up passenger from rank - you would imagine that this would be illegal, breaking the law and comitting a crime?! Answer from Garda -" Sorry nothing to do with us contact the Regulator Monday morning" "Don't tell us what's against the law" .. So consider this your Sister, Aunt, Niece gets into a "TAXI" and is attacked, she manages to get the roof sign number and contacts the Garda to be told she must have wrong number because it doesn't match car!!! And just to top it off same person arrives on rank 2 hours later in a different car and same roof sign - still nothing to do with Garda... Now do you feel I'm wrong to protest against the total lack of enforcement regarding "TAXIS". This was last night!!! So when something serious happens, and it's only a matter of time if things continue as they are, who'll be whining then! "

Spook_ie

amtaxi wrote: »

Worked 14 hours last night and earned 7.45 per hour - best hourly rate this week.. Apart from that one of the major reasons I'm protesting is the lack of enforcement of the law in place as I believe if all the bad ones were gone it would improve for the rest of us..........

I've already post the following on a different thread but it may help to explain to you why soooo many of us are fustrated and if joe soap public was really aware of what is genuinely happening evey night of the week they might feel different.......

""Consider this - Private car with taxi roof sign, plying for hire on rank, CTV in town,Garda contact three times and given details and location. Garda contacted again when car picked up passenger from rank - you would imagine that this would be illegal, breaking the law and comitting a crime?! Answer from Garda -" Sorry nothing to do with us contact the Regulator Monday morning" "Don't tell us what's against the law" .. So consider this your Sister, Aunt, Niece gets into a "TAXI" and is attacked, she manages to get the roof sign number and contacts the Garda to be told she must have wrong number because it doesn't match car!!! And just to top it off same person arrives on rank 2 hours later in a different car and same roof sign - still nothing to do with Garda... Now do you feel I'm wrong to protest against the total lack of enforcement regarding "TAXIS". This was last night!!! So when something serious happens, and it's only a matter of time if things continue as they are, who'll be whining then! "

It is a Garda responsability though to act against uninsured drivers, I would suggest that next time you see it happen, ring the Gardai and tell them you saw an uninsured driver driving a car ( no need to mention taxi ) or if you feel realy evil tell them you saw them drinking before they got in the car or even taking recreational drugs, that should get some interest

Taxipete29

MOH wrote: »

I'm not saying the figures are right - I was replying to amtaxi's post asking where the figures came from. It does give a detailed explanation of how the calculation was made, and enough information to draw your own conclusions from it. Personally, I'd assume the figure from the household survey to be over-inflated - most people are more likely to remember an expensive fare over a cheap one, and even if they're trying to be honest will probably err towards a higher average fare.

Is you average fare really €10? It's very rare I'd ever get out of a taxi and pay less than that, and most of my journeys are under 15 minutes. And for fares of 5 or 6 euro, I'm going to walk rather than take a taxi. Not calling you a liar, just surprised.

Yes average fare really is €10. I work Ballyfermot/Clondalkin and Lucan area with a local firm and you would be surprised the amount of €5 fares I get in a week. There are alot of older people in these areas that dont drive and cant manage their shopping on the bus.

Not sure if you know Liffey Valley that well but if you do, I have got a fare from outside the cinema to PC World which is in the retail park, its probably a 10 min walk, the meter didnt even move. This might give you some indication of how lazy some people actually are lol

lods

http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/

A protest will take place on Friday 20th from 8am onwards. Two separate convoys of slow-moving vehicles will travel from the Liffey Valley Shopping Centre, and the Airside Retail Park in Swords into Fitzwilliam Square and O’ Connell St. in the city centre. * A separate group of protestors will gather in the vicinity of Parnell Square, O'Connell Street and College Green area. A group of slow-moving vehicles will drive in a continuous convoy up and down O’ Connell St. Motorists should be aware of possible delays and allow extra time for any journeys. The protest is expected to finish by 2pm.

Just great for a Friday:mad:

signman12

lods wrote: »

http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/



Just great for a Friday:mad:

what are they complaining about this time :rolleyes:
bloody hell & I'm in town tomorrow, typical

godtabh

signman12 wrote: »

what are they complaining about this time :rolleyes:
bloody hell & I'm in town tomorrow, typical

They arent getting their way so they want to piss off their customers some more. Its bound to work

bcirl03

Ah no, not the taxi crowd again.

Please leave us alone - WE DONT CARE!

signman12

kearnsr wrote: »

They arent getting their way so they want to piss off their customers some more. Its bound to work

just like the government,
they don't care about us either

lods

bcirl03 wrote: »

Ah no, not the taxi crowd again.

Please leave us alone - WE DONT CARE!

Obviously most taxi men don't care. 30K licences & 2K protrested the last time.

irishmusico

Comments deleted by poster

Ratzo Rizzo

**** 'em. Just off off a LUAS, 3 cars went the opposite direction, th efourth took me home. If they were that wooried about there job one of the first 3 would have U turned and takenm me home, ****' em bunch of lazy *****
Like my bruv says. too many chippies but you don't see them out protesting.
**** off yopu buncjh off lazy ***** and take fares when you're offered you useless slobs...

Taxipete29

Ratzo Rizzo wrote: »

Like my bruv says. too many chippies but you don't see them out protesting.

They are probably too busy studying for their PSV Test

Terrontress

Taxipete29 wrote: »

They are probably too busy studying for their PSV Test

Ha, ha, ha. Or not, if you'd believe some of them!

signman12

so is this an end to it,
have they gained support from the general public, I think not !

will we all be wearing "support your local taxi" badges, hmmmmmmm:rolleyes:

being self employed is never easy, that's something that taxi drivers need to accept, it's a free market, just get on with it.

if you provide a good service & your prices are good then you'll survive.

remember there is no point in having a protest if only less than 10% of your members are not happy, all you do is alienate yourselves more.

bully tactics don't work any more

Taxipete29

signman12 wrote: »

if you provide a good service & your prices are good then you'll survive

This statement shows you really have no knowledge of how the industry works at all.

Terrontress

Taxipete29 wrote: »

This statement shows you really have no knowledge of how the industry works at all.

Elaborate.

lost marbles

Terrontress wrote: »

Elaborate.

on one thread you make a statement about letting the taxi drivers protest and everyone else getting on with their lives .
and then you come into this thread and want to carry on with the same old rigmaroll [is that a word :rolleyes:]
will you ever just please make up your mind on what you want .

Terrontress

lost marbles wrote: »

on one thread you make a statement about letting the taxi drivers protest and everyone else getting on with their lives .
and then you come into this thread and want to carry on with the same old rigmaroll [is that a word :rolleyes:]
will you ever just please make up your mind on what you want .

It's not just as easy as dismissing someone's statement as they don't understand the taxi industry. If the statement is inaccurate or ill-thought, it's better to point out why.

I don't disagree with the taxi drivers right to protest but I don't think they should be doing it and think the current system should remain.

lost marbles

Terrontress wrote: »

It's not just as easy as dismissing someone's statement as they don't understand the taxi industry. If the statement is inaccurate or ill-thought, it's better to point out why.

I don't disagree with the taxi drivers right to protest but I don't think they should be doing it and think the current system should remain.

as is your right .
and you have made some good points [only a few but good none the least] in the threads you posted on.
look at this this way [from my point of view ] .
everyone should agree that this government has fecked up the whole country from boom to bust in what must be a record for world ecomonics .
their policies an example ill use here [the installing of the quangos ] to deflect the sh1t from their doorsteps .
the taxi regulator is one such quango .
part of why taxi drivers are protesting is the policies of the office of the taxi regulator .
im not going to go over all the other issues we have .yet again !.
to have some muppet then post a reply
"taxi drivers are just a shower of lazy whinging sh1ts "
for someone to start a thread "should there be a levy put on every taxi driver who protests "[how intelligent is that ]
these threads have run their course at this stage
the taxi drivers will protest and it will interfere with some peoples lives .
thats what living in a democracy is all about .
so some will disagree, and some will agree .
that life folks

signman12

naaa theres more life left in this thread,
like how does the taxi industry work

Calina

Hi.

friendly mod note:

non-constructive posts will be removed and posters of same may and have been banned or infracted.

As you were.

Calina

Taxipete29

signman12 wrote: »

naaa theres more life left in this thread,
like how does the taxi industry work

Taxis are a generic product, there is very little way for a single operator to set themselves apart from the thousands of other drivers out there ( exception maybe guys with 6/7/8 seaters).

I could be giving discounts to all my customers and providing excellent customer service, but at the end of the day I will almost never get repeat business as a result. According to your theory doing the above should help me survive in a free market, but im pointing out it doesnt hold in an industry where one car and driver is the same as the next when your flagging them down on the street. You cannot ask for a specific driver when you phone a company, so it doesnt apply there either and poaching regular customers from the firm your working with will result in your radio being taken off you.

The above reasons are why free-market economics dont apply as readily in the taxi industry as they do in other industries and this is the bit nobody except people in the industry seem to understand.

signman12

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Taxis are a generic product, there is very little way for a single operator to set themselves apart from the thousands of other drivers out there ( exception maybe guys with 6/7/8 seaters).

I could be giving discounts to all my customers and providing excellent customer service, but at the end of the day I will almost never get repeat business as a result. According to your theory doing the above should help me survive in a free market, but im pointing out it doesnt hold in an industry where one car and driver is the same as the next when your flagging them down on the street. You cannot ask for a specific driver when you phone a company, so it doesnt apply there either and poaching regular customers from the firm your working with will result in your radio being taken off you.

The above reasons are why free-market economics dont apply as readily in the taxi industry as they do in other industries and this is the bit nobody except people in the industry seem to understand.

thanks for your explanation pete, I can see your dilemma.

I hope I won't get banned for asking for an explanation.

but how is protesting in the city & making life hell for all the other road users going to solve this?

when I get taxi's in wicklow I always specify the driver when making a booking & there seems to be no problem in doing this, when I used to live in dublin I did the same.

i'm lovely!

to solve the amount of new licences coming into the taxi industry. it seems a clear solution for this is that any new taxi coming in should be no older than 5 years and them have to be replaced after 10 years. this way there would not be an overcrowding of taxis and us, the people, would not have to sit in old dirty taxis.

Taxipete29

signman12 wrote: »

when I get taxi's in wicklow I always specify the driver when making a booking & there seems to be no problem in doing this, when I used to live in dublin I did the same.

Not sure about Wicklow, but I have worked for alot of firms in Dublin and have yet to find one its allowed in

Taxipete29

signman12 wrote: »

but how is protesting in the city & making life hell for all the other road users going to solve this?

Its about making the Government and Minister Dempsey in particular sit up and take notice. Unfortunatly the public being disrupted is a necessary evil.

Taxipete29

i'm lovely! wrote: »

to solve the amount of new licences coming into the taxi industry. it seems a clear solution for this is that any new taxi coming in should be no older than 5 years and them have to be replaced after 10 years. this way there would not be an overcrowding of taxis and us, the people, would not have to sit in old dirty taxis.

Such a regulation is on the way, by 2012 no taxi will be over 9 years old

signman12

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Not sure about Wicklow, but I have worked for alot of firms in Dublin and have yet to find one its allowed in

in crumlin village, the taxi firm there never had a problem in requesting a driver

signman12

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Its about making the Government and Minister Dempsey in particular sit up and take notice. Unfortunatly the public being disrupted is a necessary evil.

but has he taken any notice, did he even know it even happened

Terrontress

Does anyone else find the use of the word "hate" towards taxi driving astonishing.

It has started off with taxi drivers on here responding to comments with "you just hate us so we can't take your comments seriously". Then it was confirmed by other posters saying they do "hate" taxi drivers.

To be honest, I try to use taxis as little as possible, due to the cost, but when I do I am always glad to see one.

Taxi drivers on here seem to revel in this hatred.

I'd like to ask the drivers who have accused others of being taxi haters why they think a percentage of the public hate them and what could be done about it.

signman12

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Such a regulation is on the way, by 2012 no taxi will be over 9 years old

"9 years old" :eek:
how old are some of the taxi's at the moment

mikemac

There are a lot of battered Toyota Corollas out there. And I mean battered!

I suppose it's the perfect car for a driver, solid and reliable.

But don't be suprised when I skip you in the rank :pac:
As I am perfectly allowed to do.

Regarding the 9 year rule though there are excellent Mercedes out there too, realy well cared for.

I suppose someone will say what does it matter?? It doesn't realy but for a long journey why not go for the best car

Gumbo

signman12 wrote: »

in crumlin village, the taxi firm there never had a problem in requesting a driver

im sure if you tried that now, it wont be allowed! imagine you are john and are next on the list to get the job, but somebody rings up and asks for peter who is 12th on the list, i dont think john or the other drivers in between would be happy, or allow it to happen at the moment.

mikemac wrote: »

There are a lot of battered Toyota Corollas out there. And I mean battered!

I suppose it's the perfect car for a driver, solid and reliable.

But don't be suprised when I skip you in the rank :pac:
As I am perfectly allowed to do.

Regarding the 9 year rule though there are excellent Mercedes out there too, realy well cared for.

I suppose someone will say what does it matter?? It doesn't realy but for a long journey why not go for the best car

the nine year rule is not thought out imo

yes there are alot of old camry's and corrolla's that are in bits and fit for the scrap yard, but there are a few that would put new cars to shame, and i think the rule should car to car orientatied, ie a stricter NCT test for taxis that would ensure the well kept cars are kept on the roads.

theres one or two old mercs being uses as taxi's and they are immac, and i got them before and would have no problems using them again.

there are 3 year old cars out there that are in bits, smelly inside, bad condition outside but yet they are legal to use, but the flip side is the is alot of immac 3 year old cars out there too.

amtaxi

yes there are alot of old camry's and corrolla's that are in bits and fit for the scrap yard, but there are a few that would put new cars to shame, and i think the rule should car to car orientatied, ie a stricter NCT test for taxis that would ensure the well kept cars are kept on the roads.

theres one or two old mercs being uses as taxi's and they are immac, and i got them before and would have no problems using them again.

there are 3 year old cars out there that are in bits, smelly inside, bad condition outside but yet they are legal to use, but the flip side is the is alot of immac 3 year old cars out there too.[/quote]

A test called a "Suitability Test (vehicle has to be suitable for use as taxi - a car which is not immaculate does not pass)" which is carried out when the car is first licenced should be done annually for licence renewal this would ensure that even a 3 year old car or a 9 year old car would be in top condition.