Infrastructure cuts discussed for the next budget

Tech3

mysterious wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to see a map of the Castleisland bypass I cant find it anywhere, it will be interesting to see the road layout, at the N23 intersects here.

N21 really does need attention though. Adare and NCW are very very congested at peak times. The road going through NCW is horrid.

At least CastleIsland is getting bypassed so it's good news. And it will benfet tourists too. Castlieisland is dreadful to get lost in since all roads a are daggered. Trucks get juaggernauted in the right turns in the town. There was a crash 3years ago where a truck ran straight into a building causing massive damage. There is a very valid reason for the bypass and not just a political one.

Yeah yeah I know Castleisland is fianna fail town. But Bertie did promise a bypass here:p To my recollection it was like 6years ago or that.

I have the map posted on the kerry forum and a thread dedicated to the bypass(check my previous post on this thread). Yes its about time its being done especially for the people of Kerry who have had to endure this far too long.

The map can be found on the kerry countil council website also, thats where I located it. Heres the link Castleisland bypass brouchure. N21 side is going to constructed 2+2, N23 single carriageway. At-grade roundabouts for the two junctions. Btw would you read previous posts.

mysterious

tech2 wrote: »

I have the map posted on the kerry forum and a thread dedicated to the bypass(check my previous post on this thread). Yes its about time its being done especially for the people of Kerry who have had to endure this far too long.

The map can be found on the kerry countil council website also, thats where I located it. Heres the link Castleisland bypass brouchure. N21 side is going to constructed 2+2, N23 single carriageway. At-grade roundabouts for the two junctions. Btw would you read previous posts.

The N21 is TOTOS, not really good layout IMO. Since the N21 has to swing around the roundabout, thus been greater traffic numbers, it's a bit stupid.

They should swing the roundabout more mainline for N21 and swing the N23 veer to the left.

spacetweek

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Everything not under contract is as dead as the Dodo , proposed N18/N17 and separate N20 PPP projects too.

The N7 will not be finished by 2010 , 2012 would be the best case scenario for that now .

So, the usual unsubstantiated nonsense then.

Tech3

mysterious wrote: »

The N21 is TOTOS, not really good layout IMO. Since the N21 has to swing around the roundabout, thus been greater traffic numbers, it's a bit stupid.

They should swing the roundabout more mainline for N21 and swing the N23 veer to the left.

The donegal bypass design is very similar(primary and secondary route at junction) to this with probably more traffic. Been on it several times during rush hour and it functions well with all the roundabouts. It shouldnt be a problem IMO. The N23 draws as much traffic if not even more at times.

spacetweek

mysterious wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to see a map of the Castleisland bypass I cant find it anywhere, it will be interesting to see the road layout, at the N23 intersects here.

Well there's a very nice map of it on Michelin's site as they jumped the gun and are already showing it as complete

mike65

Update
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0324/1224243317036.html

Road schemes affected

Two schemes between Kells, Co Meath and Belturbet, Co Cavan on the N3

Three schemes on the N2 between Ashbourne and Co Monaghan

Three schemes on the N4 between Mullingar and Castlebaldwin

Three schemes on the N16 in counties Sligo, Leitrim and Cavan

Four schemes between Longford and Westport on the N5

Six schemes on the N25 between New Ross, Co Wexford and the Cork Southern Ring

Four schemes on the N13/N14/N15 group of roads in the northwest

Five schemes on the N22 between Tralee and Cork

Seven schemes on the N24 in Co Tipperary

23 schemes on national secondary roads.

These schemes will not now go ahead unless specifically sanctioned by the Department of Finance.

bill_ashmount

The curb will also extend to road maintenance where contracts for items such as road resurfacing will also need to be pre-approved by the Department of Finance.

:eek: Things are getting fairly tight.

The only exception to the Government’s edict is to be the 6km Castleisland bypass in Co Kerry, sanctioned by the Department of Finance on March 19th. Credit for the sanction was yesterday claimed by the Independent Kerry TD Jackie Healy Rae, who said he had used his position as a Government supporter to “at all times put the interest of the people [of Kerry] first”. He said the Opposition should “stop trying to jeopardise the further items that I have an agreement on”.

JHR strikes again......

leitrim lad

in my opinion and your welcome to set me strait if you think im wrong ,but i think the government should sell the roads that need to be built to consortiums , who could construct the roads and possibly rail lines including metro and other major schemes , and buy them back from the consortiums over 20 or 30 years, this would create employment in construction again and help the exchequer , anyone with me on this

Road-Hog

It is already doing this with the PPP projects

leitrim lad

i know that i have allocated work for my own company on ppp projects but why not let all infastructure projects go that way until times get better and they actually do have the money on the hip to fund themselves

BluntGuy

These cuts come as no surprise. The NRA have already gone PPP on the biggest projects.

IF (and that's a BIG "if") Metro North is to go ahead next year as planned then road funding needs to be slashed.

Chris_533976

Absolute guesswork states that Metro North / Interconnector wont be touched until the interurbans are finished and that chunk of the budget is freed up (and hopefully not decimated)

serfboard

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Absolute guesswork states that Metro North / Interconnector wont be touched until the interurbans are finished and that chunk of the budget is freed up (and hopefully not decimated)

Seems like a fairly reasonable guess to make. And by the time the interurbans are finished who knows - the IMF might be running the show :eek:

Irish and Proud

serfboard wrote: »

Seems like a fairly reasonable guess to make. And by the time the interurbans are finished who knows - the IMF might be running the show :eek:

...having sacked most of the TDs, Regulators, and Banking Execs and having foreclosed on all their private assets!

Sick of the lot of them! :mad:

Regards!

Sponge Bob

serfboard wrote: »

And by the time the interurbans are finished who knows - the IMF might be running the show :eek:

Actually the IMF may well be calling the shots before the Interurbans are finished .

There is a 60% likelihood that they will be called in to make those politically unpalatable ( but necessary ) decisions before the end of 2010 . It was maybe a 20% likelihood as late as the end of last summer .

Some posters around here seem to have issues with what I have long been saying , but I will repeat it yet again for those who are capable of learning .

" There Is NO Money "

Simple!

mysterious

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Actually the IMF may well be calling the shots before the Interurbans are finished .

There is a 60% likelihood that they will be called in to make those politically unpalatable ( but necessary ) decisions before the end of 2010 . It was maybe a 20% likelihood as late as the end of last summer .

Some posters around here seem to have issues with what I have long been saying , but I will repeat it yet again for those who are capable of learning .

" There Is NO Money "

Simple!

No money is an illusion. Money is printed all the time. If the bankers can't start a war, they create panick and global recessions.

It's all in the head. Everyone is whacked in the head because of it. Money never dissapears.;)

Money is the work of the devil, it maybe needed for now. But it's something that we use that circulates. Therefore does not dissapear.

bg07

mysterious wrote: »

No money is an illusion. Money is printed all the time. If the bankers can't start a war, they create panick and global recessions.

It's all in the head. Everyone is whacked in the head because of it. Money never dissapears.;)

Money is the work of the devil, it maybe needed for now. But it's something that we use that circulates. Therefore does not dissapear.

In a small open economy money disappears all the time when people buy goods or services from an outside country. The money only comes back when people from other countries buy our goods and services. If the money going out is much greater than the money coming in then you have a big problem like we do now.

mysterious

bg07 wrote: »

In a small open economy money disappears all the time when people buy goods or services from an outside country. The money only comes back when people from other countries buy our goods and services. If the money going out is much greater than the money coming in then you have a big problem like we do now.

Thats not whats happening now I can assure you of that. It is a purporseful creation, and if you say that about Ireland, where all the money is leaving our country, it's then would be logic that the same is happening in every other country all over the globe. It's a worldwide recession.

So where is the money;)

This should give you an idea, of whats really going on.

bg07

Well for the last few years everyone in the country has being borrowing and this made up for the lack of money coming into the country by selling goods and services. Borrowing is no longer an option which is as much to do with external problems as internal ones. The problem with debt is that although the physical amount of money is fixed the amount of debt is not. Debt can continue growing and growing until people stop being able to repay it. That’s the problem that is across the world now.

Anyway for the purposes of this thread it is not important where the money is. What is very clear, irrespective of where the money is, is that the government don’t have any. Therefore they definitely can’t be throwing it around like they used to. One of the politically easiest things for them to cut is infrastructure spending when compared to cutting hospital beds or increasing class sizes.

spacetweek

Coming back to the NRA's list of projects on hold, I'm a bit confused. The article didn't tell us anything new - just that projects can't start unless they get funded from the DoF - which was the case all along. So, no change then.

It's important to strip away the hype and misinformation from the real stuff.

Sponge Bob

Not so.

The NRA was given a substantial budget every year and was given discretion as to how to use it with the proviso that the priority was the MIU schemes.

In around 2006 they asked for a multi year budget or 'envelope' and got that .

In 2008 they were cut back to year by year budgets , very quietly , after they had issued all the MIU contracts .

In Feb 2009 they were stripped of the authority to progress any schemes on minor primary and secondary national roads .

The Dept of Finance must now approve every expenditure proposal line by line including signage , line of sight improvements, lighting , resurfacing .

The only schemes still alive by virtue of not being killed by Finance , and with a budget coming in a fortnight mind , are the Cork-Bundoran sections of the Atlantic Road corridor and some officially deferred schemes like Cork - Midleton and Newlands Cross together with deferred and ppp sections of the N11 . Cork and Galway rings too.

No other road scheme in the country , other than what is built , is being progressed in any way shape or form save where some small contracts are being finished out.

By 2010 they will not even be able to resurface or resign what they have without clearance from the Dept of Finance . There will be virtually no road scheme activity in Ireland within 2 years . March 2011 .

It shall remain thus until the middle of the decade at the earliest . the odd Claregalway bypass sort of road may get built when there is an election in the offing .

spacetweek

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The only schemes still alive by virtue of not being killed by Finance , and with a budget coming in a fortnight mind , are the Cork-Bundoran sections of the Atlantic Road corridor and some officially deferred schemes like Cork - Midleton and Newlands Cross together with deferred and ppp sections of the N11 . Cork and Galway rings too.

No other road scheme in the country , other than what is built , is being progressed in any way shape or form save where some small contracts are being finished out.

By 2010 they will not even be able to resurface or resign what they have without clearance from the Dept of Finance . There will be virtually no road scheme activity in Ireland within 2 years . March 2011 .

It shall remain thus until the middle of the decade at the earliest . the odd Claregalway bypass sort of road may get built when there is an election in the offing .

It's true that the budget will remain so until then (tightly controlled), but the DoF will still continue to provide funding. We'll see if transport is cut back significantly in April's budget, but I doubt it. The DoF just wants to make sure that they control the purse strings in this tight environment. I doubt we'll see the low level of activity you're anticipating. Probably still 4 new starts a year.

Chris_533976

I think TBH that 4 new starts is absolutely unattainable. Bear in mind we're only getting one this year (Castleisland), not counting the four PPPs which I'm considering seperately and wont be ready to start this year anyway.

Now I know theres still a lot being built, I dont think we'll see ANY new starts (other than PPPs) other than Castleisland until the interurbans are finished.

THEN we might get four starts per year, IF a little bit more money has trickled though.

Spongey may be right about the complete cull, but I still think that the masterful FF phrase "We're starting XXX project even in these financial conditions" will have an effect.

Edit: We might get ONE new start in 2010, just simply so we dont have zero new starts. That will be a cheapy cheap one, ie: Newlands or even something like Longford. (But this is nothing but pure guesswork)

Tech3

spacetweek wrote: »

Well there's a very nice map of it on Michelin's site as they jumped the gun and are already showing it as complete

The route is the same as it is currently. The bypass will be a big arc as shown by the red line below:

spacetweek

tech2 wrote: »

The route is the same as it is currently. The bypass will be a big arc as shown by the red line below:

OK - but when you zoom out, the bypass appears completed.

serfboard

spacetweek wrote: »

OK - but when you zoom out, the bypass appears completed.

You're right. See attached.

Sponge Bob

Maybe someone should tell our lot that Albania drew up a plan to build Motorways and expressways ( wide single ) roads and some D2 NATIONWIDE in 2002 .

They will finish it by 2010. Thats right a national program to build a primary road network within 8 years .

Right now Albania has 400km of Primary Roads under construction.

I think we should invite them over and find out how they do it . Albania is not a mickey mouse country in the arse end of Europe!




Albania is very mountainous, still not a problem






and

The Word Is Bor

How long does it take a project to go from inception to opening in Albania, I wonder?

jank

Why dont you go to live in Albania SB?;)

Tech3

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That is absolutely incredible!!