Infrastructure cuts discussed for the next budget

Sponge Bob

Furet wrote: »

Really, is that the new priority according to your sources SpongeBob? I have certain reservations about the proposed scale of and perceived immediate need for the M20.

Depends who is paying for it Furet :cool: The Pension funds will prioritise projects where the income stream can be guaranteed by one means or another and on that basis the DOOR moves up the pecking order straight away . You may be sure that they will have a shopping list of 'infrastructure' projects that interest them .

Mind you they might do the Interconnector too, that would be nice.

They will be less interested in schools and community centres one suspects and will show absolutely no inclination to invest west of the Shannon .

mysterious

Gruffalo wrote: »

Check the midlands airport thread. He is looking at building a space centre.You gotta love mysterious, he is always providing you with options.

There is no way In hell are you allowed to step into comedy.

Space centre, was a joke. :rolleyes: Please take my advice, just don't step into the humour arena.

mysterious

Furet wrote: »

I think that as far as roads are concerned, the Newlands Cross upgrade and the Cork SRR (including Dunkettle) freeflows should be prioritised...along with the Galway and Claregalway bypasses of course. But these don't seem to feature very prominently on the NRA's to-do list at all, even though they would deliver massive improvements to the network, notwithstanding their relative smallness on a kilometre basis.

The market will decide if the M20 and M17/18 motorways go ahead anytime soon. Frankly, given how things are, I don't mind terribly if they're delayed.

Adare bypass!

Gruffalo

mysterious wrote: »

There is no way In hell are you allowed to step into comedy.

Space centre, was a joke. :rolleyes: Please take my advice, just don't step into the humour arena.

Take your advice? You have shown that you do not know Irish geography and you cannot read. I can think of better people to take advice from. Oh look what I can do:


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tech3

mysterious wrote: »

Adare bypass!

This is going to be included into the North of the M20 scheme and will join up to the N21 south of Adare.

Irish and Proud

tech2 wrote: »

This is going to be included into the North of the M20 scheme and will join up to the N21 south of Adare.

...so they're re-routing the Adare Bypass - like doing a Kilcullen Link on it?

Probably makes sense!

Regards!

mysterious

Gruffalo wrote: »

Take your advice? You have shown that you do not know Irish geography and you cannot read. I can think of better people to take advice from. Oh look what I can do:


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

What age are you?

Why are you taking this thread off topic constantly. Get over yourself.

mysterious

Irish and Proud wrote: »

...so they're re-routing the Adare Bypass - like doing a Kilcullen Link on it?

Probably makes sense!

Regards!

The plans are on Archiseek.com The planners made a arse of the new routes though that go towards the south of it.

Chris_533976

M20 Northern section will be M20 from approx Buttevant to Croom, with an M20/21 (probably restricted) junction and the N21 Adare bypass.

M20 Southern section will be M20 from approx Buttevant to Cork, with N22 Cork North Ring Northern section (M20 to M8) included.

Gruffalo

mysterious wrote: »

What age are you?

Why are you taking this thread off topic constantly. Get over yourself.

Constantly? look up a dictionary kid. Check when my first post on it was. I have been reading the thread for a while and I noticed how you speak to people so I thought I would give you a little taste of your own medicine. Chill out.

As for the rest of the folks on here, I am really enjoying reading these motorway threads and am learning new things everyday. Thank you all (including you mysterious) for all the info and keep up the good work.

bill_ashmount

The NRA has received bids from 6 consortiums for the construction of the N17.

On page 4 of todays Sunday Business Post.

Tech3

bill_ashmount wrote: »

The NRA has received bids from 6 consortiums for the construction of the N17.

On page 4 of todays Sunday Business Post.

seen that also, will try and find the web link for it. 500million estimated cost

Tech3

The National Roads Authority (NRA) has recieved bids from six consortiums for the construction of one of the country's largest single road projects.
The 58-kilometre dual carriageway for Gort to Tuam in Co Galway is expected to cost in the region of 500 million and the winning contract to build it will be announced in November. Construction will not start until autumn next year.

There has been "significant interest" from Irish and foreign companies in the contract, accodrding to NRA spokesman Sean O' Neill.
The road - which will be renamed the M17 on completion - will bypass the town of Tuam. A seperate Tuam to Claremorris road project is in the planning stage.

The bids from six consortiums are currently being examined in the pre-qualification stage, and the shortlist next month will be announced. A drop of a least 20 per cent in land values and raw materials is expected to achieve significant cost savings for the bidders.

O'Neill said that, given its size and the slowdown in infrastructure projects across Europe, the NRA was pleased with the response. "The authority still has large projects ongoing and has a continued commitment to these," he said. "In todays environment, there is great value to be had for the taxpayer, because of a highly competitive environment".

Hardly unexpected but I guess pension funds will be provided for this. The only question is why next autumn?

serfboard

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=nav-qqqid=41811-qqqx=1.asp

spacetweek

bill_ashmount wrote: »

The NRA has received bids from 6 consortiums for the construction of the N17.

On page 4 of todays Sunday Business Post.

So much for Sponge Bob's usual po-faced pontificating.

Sponge Bob

spacetweek wrote: »

So much for Sponge Bob's usual po-faced pontificating.

LOL . I posted that story ages ago . Very handy leak with an election on .

Road-Hog

tech2 wrote: »

Hardly unexpected but I guess pension funds will be provided for this. The only question is why next autumn?

The only answer I would say is the complex shorlisting and tender analysis process.........!

spacetweek

Sponge Bob wrote: »

LOL . I posted that story ages ago . Very handy leak with an election on .

So now it's a leak. You're never wrong are you? :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

Cheery little bugger today aren't you

ardmacha

So much for Sponge Bob's usual po-faced pontificating.

The government also had a bid for replacing Mountjoy Jail with one in North Dublin, but it was so high that they aren't going ahead with it.

clon

Taken from todays irish times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2009/0527/1224247487817.html

THE NATIONAL Roads Authority (NRA) has expressed concern at the lack of money available for the maintenance of national routes next year, writes DAVID LABANYI
In documents obtained from the NRA, its board states that a reduction in its funding “leaves effectively no available money in 2010 for rehabilitation, minor works, preparatory work and land acquisition to allow for new starts in 2011 and 2012”.
Maintenance work includes fixing potholes, lining and signing of roads and paying for minor layout alternations such as removing a dangerous bend.
Responding to the issues raised in the documents, NRA chief executive Fred Barry said it was “critical that we invest enough in maintenance and rehabilitation. If not there will be a high price to pay in the coming years due to the deterioration of the assets.”
The NRA has a capital budget of €1.4 billion this year and €1 billion for 2010. Almost all of this funding has been committed under contracts for new sections of the national network, with nothing left over for maintenance.
The authority has consistently stressed the importance of investing in maintenance to ensure the quality of new motorways and dual carriageways – developed at a cost of over €7.5 billion – does not diminish quickly.
Another consequence of the funding shortfall is that the Government cannot now pay directly for the next tranche of major road projects, including the N7 at Newlands Cross, the N6 Galway city outer bypass and the N11 between Arklow and Rathnew. These were supposed to be built on an exchequer-funded basis but will now be considered for development as public-private partnerships (PPPs), according to the NRA documents.
The Galway city ring road project has an estimated cost of over €317 million, and €12 million has been spent on the project to date.
The rebuilding of the Newlands Cross junction in south Dublin will see the construction of a multi-level free-flowing interchange that will lift traffic on the R113 Fonthill/Belgard Road over the N7.
Asked about investor appetite for PPP deals, given the crisis in the financial markets, Barry said the market had moved from a situation where “funders were chasing projects to projects chasing funders”.
“We are relying on the markets to improve next year for our next PPP capital programme to be competitively funded,” he said.
The relative success of London’s M25 widening scheme in attracting PPP funding suggests that there is investor interest for certain PPP projects.
Once motorways linking Dublin with Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford are completed next year, around 25 per cent of the State’s national roads will have been upgraded.
However, with the State’s capital budget facing severe pressures for the coming years, its capacity to upgrade the remaining national routes is likely to be curtailed.

Chris_533976

Somebody needs to do their research as AFAIK, the Galway Bypass (whats been approved of it) is NOT on any PPP list, and certainly isnt on any of the five that I know of.

serfboard

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Somebody needs to do their research as AFAIK, the Galway Bypass (whats been approved of it) is NOT on any PPP list, and certainly isnt on any of the five that I know of.

But sure isn't that what the article says:

Irish Times wrote:

The Government cannot now pay directly for the next tranche of major road projects, including ... the N6 Galway city outer bypass ... These were supposed to be built on an exchequer-funded basis but will now be considered for development as public-private partnerships (PPPs), according to the NRA documents.

So GCOB et al are going to move from exchequer-funded to PPP.

Because the exchequer has no funds! So, if PPPs won't fund them either, then they just won't be delivered. Simple as that.

Sponge Bob

serfboard wrote: »

So GCOB et al are going to move from exchequer-funded to PPP.

Because the exchequer has no funds! So, if PPPs won't fund them either, then they just won't be delivered. Simple as that.

You may take it that the Longford Bypass and Cork-Midleton are gone the same way but as they are not close to Dublin they were not mentioned .

What about other planned expenditures such as archeology, geotechnical , land acquisition and fencing for the 3 PPPs that are allegedly still alive , M20+misc bits M17/18 and M11/N25 ???

Chris_533976

God only knows.

The five PPPs that I know of are still a bit unknown.

These are they ->

1) N7 Newlands Cross & N11 Arklow - Rathnew
2) M17/18 Gort to Tuam
3) N11/N25 Enniscorthy and New Ross
4) M20 North + Adare bypass (Basically Croom to Buttevant)
5) M20 South + Cork NRR Northern section (Basically Buttevant to Blarney)

Now the rules of these PPPs are thus -
- Government pays for CPO
- PPP company pays for Construction etc

I dont know about all the silly little contracts like fencing/tests/etc.

M20 will be hit by the CPO problems, as that will be a BIG CPO. Tho with land prices lower, it wont be as much of a hit.

NRAs budget is 1.4billion this year, 1billion in 2010. I assume that does not include CPOs. 95% of that budget is going on the Interurbans (N6/7/8/9).

N7/11 is already CPOed, so the NRA have very little else to pay. All I've heard is that that one will be pushed to the top (and quite rightly so). Earliest that will go to construction is Autumn 2010.

M17/18 is planned to go to construction in Q4 2010 earliest. Gort to Athenry is already CPOed. Athenry to Tuam is not CPOed I dont think. Tuam bypass is approved as S2, there is an amendment in front of ABP to get it reapproved as 2+2. That isnt CPOed. THe tender that was on Etenders was a PreQualification Tender and got 6 bits of interest from Irish and European companies. I know for a fact that these dont have to be PPP funded by Irish banks either, they can go through European banks if needed. That could be a way round the awful credit rating of the Irish banks currently, but I dont know that. 95% sure that the GCOB will NOT be included, as the M17/18 scheme is currently almost as long as the M3 and is actually longer than the Galway - Ballinasloe one.

Neither M20 scheme is CPOed. Both will go to construction Q3 2011 earliest. However, I've heard that this will be pushed back to 2012 due to a rerouting around Croom due to the Adare bypass. This shouldnt effect the Southern Section though, so that might start in Q3 2011 as planned. The M20 scheme WILL have an MSA somewhere along its length.

N11/N25 scheme I dont know about, I dont think it has been CPOed, although I know the whole lot has been approved by ABP. Q2 2011 earliest for construction here.


We know the NRAs budget up till end 2010. We know nothing for 2011. Therefore, it is POSSIBLE that these CPOs can be done in 2011, on the 2011 budget (whatever that is). Even if it was reduced by 50% to €500mil, it would probably pay for all the CPOs on this list.

Hope all that helps, or at least makes things more confusing.


Edit: Spongey I wouldnt 100% write off Longford or Cork-Midleton. These are the cheapest schemes on the list that are ready to go (although Cork - Midleton isnt CPOed, I dont know about Longford). Longford especially would be a token "oh look recession but we're still funding major transport projects" from the government. But thats just guesswork. Also Amgen still own the land near Carrigtwohill, and if they ever (unlikey) announced "We're coming back" then money would magically be found from somewhere for the Cork - Midleton upgrade.

Sponge Bob

Chris_533976 wrote: »

God only knows.

The five PPPs that I know of are still a bit unknown.

These are they ->

1) N7 Newlands Cross & N11 Arklow - Rathnew

<snip>

I hadn't spotted that announcement 2 weeks back so I had to do some googling to see what you were on about

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0505/1224245943682.html

Wow that is some admission isn't it . Not even having money for a nationally critical job like Newlands Cross certainly sets things in perspective ... even for some of the slow learners around here .

If they cannot afford that then what can they afford ????

One other item in that article

This will be the third time the Wicklow road has gone to tender in recent years

Two full tendering processes discarded, millions spend by the tendering parties . Permatenders are cheap for the government not for the poor bastards spending time and money preparing them and make it look like you are doing something Dempsey style

PPP permatenders are even better , each 'round ' for a single road project will last at least a full year , then you can say they were not 'advantageous' and launch another permatender next time there is an election .

Nothing gets done, of course