Harsh treatment in the Emergency Services forum

Johnny Utah

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, so I apologise if I'm posting in the wrong forum.

I have to say that some (non-ES) posters receive some very harsh treatment over in the Emergency Services forum. For example, in a recent thread, concerning an allegation of assault by a Garda in Galway, a number of posters were banned from the Emergency Services forum:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055499672&page=5



In one particular case, McCrack, I think that this ban was unwarranted. McCrack had merely objected to a number of remarks made by metman - a regular poster in the ES forum. McCrack is a genuine poster and has provided a very worthwhile contribution to the legal discussion forum. Accordingly, I think that it is worth bearing this in mind when deciding whether a certain poster is trolling or else providing genuine, honest criticism. It is also worth pointing out that it was metman who dragged the thread way off-topic in the first instance, yet he didn't receive a ban or even a warning for this type of posting. This leads me to believe that the mods of Emergency Services are employing double standards when dealing with non-ES posters.


Aside from that, I have also noticed that there have been some nasty, snide remarks made about lawyers, and a general feeling of resentment towards the legal profession, by certain ES regulars. If a non-ES poster made similar comments in relation to Gardai, then I have no doubt that person would receive a lengthy ban from the Emergency Services forum.


Lastly, I think that regular ES posters should adopt a more open approach to constructive criticism in the Emergency Services forum. At present, any criticism of Gardai is met with a very, very defensive attitude by the ES posters (who claim to be Gardai). It's got to the stage that Emergency Services may as well be a private board for members and wannabees because any time someone else submits a contrary view, they are treated with hostility and derision. The back-slapping and the endless supply of thanked posts is nauseating at times. This sort of behaviour has fostered an environment which very much gives the impression that it's us v them in the emergency services forum- the sheep mentality that is often displayed by AGS. I really hope that there will be a more open-minded approach displayed in the ES forum from now on because non-ES posters do have a meaningful contribution to make.

I appreciate that they shouldn't have to put up with malicious posts, but at the same time, it would be much better for all concerned if genuine, honest criticism was dealt with in a mature, civilised manner, rather than just locking a thread and labelling someone as a troll.

Trojan911

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, so I apologise if I'm posting in the wrong forum.

I have to say that some (non-ES) posters receive some very harsh treatment over in the Emergency Services forum. For example, in a recent thread, concerning an allegation of assault by a Garda in Galway, a number of posters were banned from the Emergency Services forum:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055499672&page=5



In one particular case, McCrack, I think that this ban was unwarranted. McCrack had merely objected to a number of remarks made by metman - a regular poster in the ES forum. McCrack is a genuine poster and has provided a very worthwhile contribution to the legal discussion forum. Accordingly, I think that it is worth bearing this in mind when deciding whether a certain poster is trolling or else providing genuine, honest criticism. It is also worth pointing out that it was metman who dragged the thread way off-topic in the first instance, yet he didn't receive a ban or even a warning for this type of posting. This leads me to believe that the mods of Emergency Services are employing double standards when dealing with non-ES posters.


Aside from that, I have also noticed that there have been some nasty, snide remarks made about lawyers, and a general feeling of resentment towards the legal profession, by certain ES regulars. If a non-ES poster made similar comments in relation to Gardai, then I have no doubt that person would receive a lengthy ban from the Emergency Services forum.


Lastly, I think that regular ES posters should adopt a more open approach to constructive criticism in the Emergency Services forum. At present, any criticism of Gardai is met with a very, very defensive attitude by the ES posters (who claim to be Gardai). It's got to the stage that Emergency Services may as well be a private board for members and wannabees because any time someone else submits a contrary view, they are treated with hostility and derision. The back-slapping and the endless supply of thanked posts is nauseating at times. This sort of behaviour has fostered an environment which very much gives the impression that it's us v them in the emergency services forum- the sheep mentality that is often displayed by AGS. I really hope that there will be a more open-minded approach displayed in the ES forum from now on because non-ES posters do have a meaningful contribution to make.

I appreciate that they shouldn't have to put up with malicious posts, but at the same time, it would be much better for all concerned if genuine, honest criticism was dealt with in a mature, civilised manner, rather than just locking a thread and labelling someone as a troll.

Well said & I agree. It's like a cartel in there & I also feel the poster McCrack was unfairly treated in that particular post. I have read McCracks posts in Legal Discussion & he has contributed greatly to the Legal Forum & attempted to contribute positively to the ES General Forum.

The poster Metman disappointed & surprised me with his flippant non constructive remarks. He normally comes across as sensible with a level head for his tender years in the Met.

I have said it before in a PM to TheNog & in public that I am rarely posting in the ES General Forum nowdays due to the downward spiral I have seen it take.

One criticism mentioned and the shutters go down. Rudeness, arrogance & blinkered comments come back & then the wannabes chip in with their "Thanks" button & very little, if any, action taken against their regular posters.

The ES Genaral forum is not a place I would recommend to non members or those who have no knowledge of the legal system while there is a closed shop in place, which is a terrible shame. It could be better for the community.

(I spent 11yrs in the Met in many different posts as a Police Officer).

seamus

Guys, I've moved this into a new feedback thread. I've no idea why you posted it in that other thread.

Johnny Utah

seamus wrote: »

Guys, I've moved this into a new feedback thread. I've no idea why you posted it in that other thread.

Sorry, as I said above, I wasn't sure where was the most appropriate place to post. Thanks for sorting it out.

TheNog

Guys,

You are right in saying the ES forum has become a sort of closed shop. I have noticed this for sometime and tried everything from PM, public warnings, editing posts etc to little or no effect. So from now on any aggressive posting will be dealt with by infraction and then banning if need be. No more warnings for regular posters again whether they be ES or non ES. New posters will of course be given the benefit of the doubt and given a warning first to desist. I foresee a difficult but short time ahead until everyone begins to toe the line but the forum will come out the better for it.

As for McCrack well I have seen many of his posts in Legal Discussion and as I said in my post he came across as a level headed individual but I still believe my ban was warranted. I warned him first but he lashed back. I explained my reasons on that thread for banning him. It is unfortunate and certainly dont wield my banhammer very often but he went too far on his last post.

My 2 cent

Micky Dolenz

I read the thread and have to say, I agree with the two lads above. Its a bit "boys club" in there. I also found metman to be rude and offensive and added nothing to the argument. Atleast McCrack had thoughtful input.

Beruthiel

TheNog wrote: »

You are right in saying the ES forum has become a sort of closed shop.

I've always thought that since my first run in with metman.
I told him then that he was not a cop I'd ever want to have dealings with.
He's arrogant and condescending.
A man who has become bitter because of the job he does. He's forgotten that not everyone is an criminal and deserves to be talked down to.

Overheal

I thought Eru was needlessly rude in there as well: "Youre dumb, go learn stuff!" I thought it was always much more polite to say "No, this is how it is" and teach the poster youre replying to something new that hightens their understanding and also adds content to the thread.

Otacon

metman has thanked the post where you banned McCrack. I actually think that is the height of cheek. Really poor show.

TheNog

The Blue Nun wrote: »

A man who has become bitter because of the job he does.

As you all probably know by now I respect other peoples opinions (at least try to) but I think that assumption is unfair perhaps a little presumptuious (sp??)

Metman and Eru and I will include myself in this too along with many police officers in the world, have a very low tolerance for bullshit. It is nature of our job. Mods would have or should have developed that sense too as we kinda police boards.ie too. Ask any serving or retired officer and they will tell you the same.

The problem as I see it is they come straight out and say its bullshit rather than manipulating the poster into a position to out himself as a bull****ter.

You may call me a dreamer but this is one direction I want the ES forum to head towards. I want an open forum for anyone to post in but those who wish to cause hassle will be outed in the proper manner and dealt with accordingly.

Does that make sense to anyone?

tallaght01

I remember once starting a thread in emergency services about how badly our paramedics are trained in emergency paediatrics.

The abuse I got for expressing an opinion just made me think it wasn't worth an opinion.

Karlitosway is also, in my opinion, quite possibly the rudest normal user on boards.

Trojan911

TheNog wrote: »

Does that make sense to anyone?

Not really. However, from what I have observed, is the Forum appears to have slipped from the Moderators grip.

Too much aggression, rudeness etc is dished out by regular posters who claim to be serving members of a police service, very little discipline shown in return.

Closed shop, needs to be more open & fair to others who are not in the know.

Posters whether they are regular or not need to understand when & where they are overstepping the mark, if they can't see this then Mods should act in accordance with the Charter rules. If abuse continues, then out the door they go. No "Boys Club" back slaps.


You may choose to ignore this or take it onboard if you wish, just my outside observations.

parsi

Sometmes the ES forum reminds me of a meeting I once had in Garda HQ. The meeting was going fine and our crowd was getting things sorted with two inspectors in civvies. General co-operation.

Next came in the lads Super in full regalia and attitude to match. He wanted a p***ing competition and very nearly undid the work of the meeting.

The ES forum is like this - folk come in, express opinion, have a query, as outsiders suggest that maybe there is another way, general discussion ensues, folk realise that maybe there isn't another way, then the guys come in in full regalia and tell everyone to go away, they know nothing because they didn''t go to Templemore and therefore should not in any way express an opinion. Hostility then breeds more hostility and we see what happens.

This is life. Everyone has an opinion.

Beruthiel

TheNog wrote: »

As you all probably know by now I respect other peoples opinions (at least try to) but I think that assumption is unfair perhaps a little presumptuious (sp??)

Perhaps it is TheNog, I'm just giving my opinion on the vibe I got from reading his comments. It is how he comes across to me.
I can quite understand how difficult it is to hold on to your empathy while dealing with scum on a daily basis.
However, it is what the public require you do and it is the difference between a good cop and a bad one.

tallaght01 wrote:

Karlitosway is also, in my opinion, quite possibly the rudest normal user on boards

This is quite possibly the first time I have ever agreed with you on anything tallaght!

Otacon

TheNog wrote: »

As you all probably know by now I respect other peoples opinions (at least try to) but I think that assumption is unfair perhaps a little presumptuious (sp??)

Metman and Eru and I will include myself in this too along with many police officers in the world, have a very low tolerance for bullshit. It is nature of our job. Mods would have or should have developed that sense too as we kinda police boards.ie too. Ask any serving or retired officer and they will tell you the same.

The problem as I see it is they come straight out and say its bullshit rather than manipulating the poster into a position to out himself as a bull****ter.

You may call me a dreamer but this is one direction I want the ES forum to head towards. I want an open forum for anyone to post in but those who wish to cause hassle will be outed in the proper manner and dealt with accordingly.

Does that make sense to anyone?

How does this relate to the way McCrack was treated? If it doesn't, then why did you bring it up here?

Sparks

TheNog wrote: »

Does that make sense to anyone?

In theory yes.
In practise, see the comments directed at Rew at the end of the handgun ban thread.

TheNog

Otacon wrote: »

How does this relate to the way McCrack was treated? If it doesn't, then why did you bring it up here?

First line of the second paragraph from the OP

Micky Dolenz

TheNog wrote: »

The problem as I see it is they come straight out and say its bullshit rather than manipulating the poster into a position to out himself as a bull****ter.

But there is a big differance between being direct and being aggresive,obnoxious and condescending.

There are many other forums here where these attitudes would not fly no matter what your post count is.

Boards is a community built up of many different opinions and expertise. A poster should be respected regardless of post count.

That whole thread lacked respect and there was an injustice done.

Otacon

TheNog wrote: »

First line of the second paragraph from the OP

I apologise. I got so pissed off with the McCrack incident that I assumed you were referring to him when you were mentioning bullsh*ters. My mistake.

I still believe that McCrack was unfairly treated. metman appears to have joined the thread to antagonise and troll. When McCrack was banned (harsh but deserved really) he then had the gall to thank your post, as if it was a victory for him.

I am not even a regular lurker on that forum but that got on my tits tbh.

TheNog

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

But there is a big differance between being direct and being aggresive,obnoxious and condescending.

There are many other forums here where these attitudes would not fly no matter what your post count is.

Boards is a community built up of many different opinions and expertise. A poster should be respected regardless of post count.

That whole thread lacked respect and there was an injustice done.

We can all agree the thread got seriously out of hand. Problem was there was no Mod watching it. I only got to see it after it went tits up.

There was no injustice. McCrack got a warning as well as everyone else but he chose to ignore it.

Micky Dolenz

TheNog wrote: »

We can all agree the thread got seriously out of hand. Problem was there was no Mod watching it. I only got to see it after it went tits up.

There was no injustice. McCrack got a warning as well as everyone else but he chose to ignore it.

Fair enough.

I just saw this thread in passing and don't know the history of any of the posters. Here is what I observed.

You said:

"will leave this thread open for now in case someone has a valid question to ask but if anyone posts anything aggressive or even seem like they are trolling I will deal with it harshly."

metman had made no contribution up to this time and then he says this:

McCrack your posts bore me. You have no interest in the ES other than to try antagonise. You're not fooling anyone on here my pedigree chum.

Closely followed by this:

"Bluebottle minds? Is that a legal term?

Rather than waste anymore of my precious time, I'll simply refer you both to my previous post (and place both of you on my ignore list). Trojan, that's my opinion.

Now I'm done with this thread".

These were the only comments he made. He made these comments after you clearly warned against such a thing.
The only contribution he made was unconstructive and an attempt to provoke a reaction.

is this not trolling?

Otacon

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Fair enough.

I just saw this thread in passing and don't know the history of any of the posters. Here is what I observed.

You said:

"will leave this thread open for now in case someone has a valid question to ask but if anyone posts anything aggressive or even seem like they are trolling I will deal with it harshly."

metman had made no contribution up to this time and then he says this:

McCrack your posts bore me. You have no interest in the ES other than to try antagonise. You're not fooling anyone on here my pedigree chum.

Closely followed by this:

"Bluebottle minds? Is that a legal term?

Rather than waste anymore of my precious time, I'll simply refer you both to my previous post (and place both of you on my ignore list). Trojan, that's my opinion.

Now I'm done with this thread".

These were the only comments he made. He made these comments after you clearly warned against such a thing.
The only contribution he made was unconstructive and an attempt to provoke a reaction.

is this not trolling?

Exactly. As they say, what's good for the goose, is good for the Garda...

/hangs head in shame :pac:

Boston

Metman was trolling. McCrack may have been but with metman its pretty blatant.

_blank_

Beruthiel wrote: »

I've always thought that since my first run in with metman.
I told him then that he was not a cop I'd ever want to have dealings with.
He's arrogant and condescending.
A man who has become bitter because of the job he does. He's forgotten that not everyone is an criminal and deserves to be talked down to.

I think we may be remembering the same incident.

I went in to the ES forum to ask a question on behalf of a friend.

It was a genuine question about the behaviour of some Gardaí toward my friend, who was not a member of Boards.ie.

I was met with derision and left with a feeling that I was being talked down to by some country bumkin of a Garda with a chip on his shoulder about his job.

You know.

A lot of the people in that forum could do with remembering that not everyone is a "Garda Basher" and just take questions at face value.

TheNog wrote: »

As you all probably know by now I respect other peoples opinions (at least try to) but I think that assumption is unfair perhaps a little presumptuious (sp??)

You may respect other people's opinions, but you would do well to impart that respect to the members for the forum you moderate.

There are various forums on Boards.ie that I simply will not use because of the attitudes of the regular posters.

Emergency Services is one of them.

Closed Shop?

You seem more than a little proud of this.

It is the very antithesis of Boards.ie imo.

No forum should be a closed shop, and if you want it to be, then make it Private, not giving the illusion of a welcoming forum for all to use, because at the moment, it simply isn't that.

Overheal

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Boards is a community built up of many different opinions and expertise. A poster should be respected regardless of post count.

That whole thread lacked respect and there was an injustice done.

Are we talking about respect for McCrack the OP or respect for the Supposed Gardai posters?

Unless it had been pointed out to me here it never would have occurred to me that Eru or Metman claimed to be Cops. Those posts were rude and uncalled for. They were also my first impression of them. Why should I respect those so-called Experts? 'Experts' post in the Tech forums all the time to help Novice and Beginer users all day every day without the kind of crap that went on in that thread happening. They don't go "Wow you really suck, go take a Night Class Grandma", They walk her through her CD-ROM and Start Menu...painful though it sometimes may be :pac:

If you want to make it a Closed Shop make it Private.

Micky Dolenz

Overheal wrote: »

Are we talking about respect for McCrack the OP or respect for the Supposed Gardai posters?

The comments I highlighted in an earlier post gave explains of the lack of respect.

I too, did not realise he was a "Guardian of the peace". I expect more from our law enforcers.

Kirnsy

from what i read in des' thread above and in the opening post and the occasional lurking in it, ES certainly has a closed shop/members only feel to it.

are any of the mods not gardai/ members of ES?

im asking not because of any 'poor modding' complaints but IMO a non ES member mod would have absolutely no connections or personal bias towards or against any sort of criticism or otherwise. like ZaphWibbs in TLL, a non-member mod might have a different perspective on certain comments such as metman's in the afore mentioned thread.

Micky Dolenz

Kirnsy wrote: »

from what i read in des' thread above and in the opening post and the occasional lurking in it, ES certainly has a closed shop/members only feel to it.

are any of the mods not gardai/ members of ES?

im asking not because of any 'poor modding' complaints but IMO a non ES member mod would have absolutely no connections or personal bias towards or against any sort of criticism or otherwise. like ZaphWibbs in TLL, a non-member mod might have a different perspective on certain comments such as metman's in the afore mentioned thread.

To be fair to the guy, he did apologize later on. however I suspect had it been 90% of our boards commuinity they would have received a ban of some lenght. Although this is nether here nor there.

Sully

I have an interest in the topics covered in the forum and its a little closer to home then other forums so I read it a fair but and sometimes post. I have found metman to be a rude individual and when I reported one post from him in the past it was quickly dealt with and I have to hand it to TheNog for that. metman calls a lot of people in the forum trolls and in the past has been very rude and arrogant towards people.

In general though, I feel that sometimes its very much a local club and outsiders are sometimes not treated with the respect and friendly behaviour they deserve. I think TheNog does a good job and trys to be fair but the forum has what looks like its own gang and own way of operating - go outside of that and watch out.

Kirnsy

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

To be fair to the guy, he did apologize later on. however I suspect had it been 90% of our boards commuinity they would have received a ban of some lenght. Although this is nether here nor there.

fair point micky but in fairness after calling des a troll, an infraction at least should have been merited after "backseat modding" - one of the reasons McCrack was banned in the OP.



ironically i seem to be backseat modding myself now.:o

EKRIUQ

Des wrote: »

I think we may be remembering the same incident.

I went in to the ES forum to ask a question on behalf of a friend.

It was a genuine question about the behaviour of some Gardaí toward my friend, who was not a member of Boards.ie.

I'm after reading that thread and am shocked at the level of ignorant responses, talk about trying to fit a stereotype :eek: But Emergency services seems to be always like that, I don't post there as I know I wouldn't last to long. I think it should be just made a private forum as looking for help there is just a joke.