Harsh treatment in the Emergency Services forum

Boston

That's a disgrace.

Des

Des wrote: »

I think we may be remembering the same incident.

I went in to the ES forum to ask a question on behalf of a friend.

It was a genuine question about the behaviour of some Gardaí toward my friend, who was not a member of Boards.ie.

I was met with derision and left with a feeling that I was being talked down to by some country bumkin of a Garda with a chip on his shoulder about his job.

i remember seeing that thread before and it was disgraceful.. then, and now i've had to hold myself back from laying into metman ina message.


as for this thread, McCrack was treated harshly.. I rarely go near that forum and am even happier now that i don't.



edit: if we all got away with apologising for such horrible behaviour like metman did.. there'd be no bannings on boards. if i land on afterhours drunk and insult someone like that, i get banned straight off. no apology will get me back in the good books.

chalad07

I was involved in a discussion about the Guards a while back, and it descended into the usual 'us versus them' crap, with accusations flying back and forth. In fairness to TheNog he was the one cop that wanted to facilitate discussion, going as far as too PM me saying not to be put off, and that genuine discussion can take place,

Apart from theNog, most of the other members did come accross as arrogant and rude,

parsi

I think in the ES Forum the attitude that prevails is that if you're not a member (or a wannabe) then you have sweet all to contribute and every question is viewed through the dark visor of suspicion.

As a forum it doesn't do any credit to AGS and perhaps there is merit in making it private or indeed hiving it off to somewhere else seeing as it doesn't comply with the traditional boards.ie ethos of facilitating helpful , polite and unbullying interaction.

It must be a pain to Moderate.

Blazer

Overheal wrote: »

I thought Eru was needlessly rude in there as well: "Youre dumb, go learn stuff!" I thought it was always much more polite to say "No, this is how it is" and teach the poster youre replying to something new that hightens their understanding and also adds content to the thread.

+ 1..I even pointed out in that thread how bitter he came across.

Mr Quiet

metman is amazing. lol @ "Jog on"

Anyone else hear that in a Nodrie accent in their noggin?

My 2 Cent btw IMO

jhegarty

Change it to a private forum tbh. It may as well be the way it is.

DeVore

Metman is back seat modding and sniping too. Way ott. If anyone is going to challenge someone for trolling or baiting then it should be the mod. Otherwise we DO have a civility rule and tbh Nog, it should be applied accross the board (from both sides).

If PM's and "hints" arent getting though, take out the ban stick.


DeV.

TheNog

Des wrote: »

You may respect other people's opinions, but you would do well to impart that respect to the members for the forum you moderate.

Point taken and working on it.

There are various forums on Boards.ie that I simply will not use because of the attitudes of the regular posters.

Emergency Services is one of them.

Closed Shop?

You seem more than a little proud of this.

I dont know how you came to that conclusion. I have already said I dont want it to be a closed shop. I would rather hang up my ban hat than have that happen.

DeVore wrote: »

Metman is back seat modding and sniping too. Way ott. If anyone is going to challenge someone for trolling or baiting then it should be the mod. Otherwise we DO have a civility rule and tbh Nog, it should be applied accross the board (from both sides).

If PM's and "hints" arent getting though, take out the ban stick.


DeV.

again point taken, I tried to everything else bar use infractions and banning which obviously hasnt worked so will move on to harsher sentences on the ES side. Trial and error I suppose on my part.

Anyways Ive already handed out 3 infractions to ES posters in the last 24 hrs

DeVore

Ironically you would think they would have some respect for our rule of law

Thanks Noggie, if you need to bring the hard rain, let me know

DeV.

civdef

It must be a pain to Moderate.

That's for damn sure. The forum was originally intended to be for all emergency services, but the policing end of things has and continues to dominate. For those of us from other services, this can be a bit disillusioning - it seems the fire service, ambulance, coastguard, voluntaries etc are just too boring.

Be that as it may, is anyone at all surprised that a forum where people can interact with police officers anonymously is going to be a tense place at times?

TheNog

Des wrote: »

I went in to the ES forum to ask a question on behalf of a friend.

It was a genuine question about the behaviour of some Gardaí toward my friend, who was not a member of Boards.ie.

I was met with derision and left with a feeling that I was being talked down to by some country bumkin of a Garda with a chip on his shoulder about his job.

You know.

A lot of the people in that forum could do with remembering that not everyone is a "Garda Basher" and just take questions at face value.

Metmans posts were unacceptable and in all fairness Metman did apologise you on post 36 and explained he was drunk at the time of posting. He was also infracted for his 1st 2 posts by PSNI. This was before my time as Mod so dont know why he wasnt banned.

Also Metman is not a serving Garda, he serves with the London Met Police

K-9

TheNog wrote: »

Also Metman is not a serving Garda, he serves with the London Met Police

Does it matter?

TheNog

TheNog wrote: »

Metmans posts were unacceptable and in all fairness Metman did apologise you on post 36 and explained he was drunk at the time of posting. He was also infracted for his 1st 2 posts by PSNI. This was before my time as Mod so dont know why he wasnt banned.

Also Metman is not a serving Garda, he serves with the London Met Police

is he still a regular poster in the forum and has he ever been banned from it do you know?

TheNog

K-9 wrote: »

Does it matter?

Just replying to Des as he thought/thinks he is a guard is all

Offy

Interesting topic. I have to agree with the OP. I am presently banned from ES for my one and only post there. I read a thread in there and felt strongly about what someone has said so I posted a reply which IS based on personal experience. I was accused of talking gibberish with no evidence to back up my claim and banned, no PM's, warnings, etc. before the ban. Banned and then told I posted because I wanted to make a complaint, I was not making a complaint I was expressing an opinion based on personal experience. The mod didnt like my opinion so I got banned. I offered to provide evidence thus proving I was not talking gibberish but that offer was dismissed.
To TheNog, if you like I will provide evidence to prove what I said. As the chap from Donegal was jailed for a number of years and then cleared I feel no need to provide evidence for this incident but I can and will provide you (privately if you like) with a dozen examples of the Garda I was referring to. He is a rouge element in your organisation and does the rest of the force no credit.
To the Mods (all Mods), make ES private, its does not promote the Gardi in a positive light as it is and theres enough bad pr for an absolutely essential service without adding to it. ES does not allow debate of ideas IMO.

DeVore

What is the purpose of the forum? If its to service complaints about the copper who smacked your mate down the road, then we have set it up wrong.

I thought its purpose was to allow interaction between members and recruits and potential recruits. I dont believe we should be a complaints department for the cops. No one here is authorised to speak for them and its always going to descend into trouble, plus its strangling the other voluntary services talking there it seems.

Thoughts?

Should we give non-police their own forum? Split it out by service?

DeV.

TheNog

Offy wrote: »

Interesting topic. I have to agree with the OP. I am presently banned from ES for my one and only post there. I read a thread in there and felt strongly about what someone has said so I posted a reply which IS based on personal experience. I was accused of talking gibberish with no evidence to back up my claim and banned, no PM's, warnings, etc. before the ban. Banned and then told I posted because I wanted to make a complaint, I was not making a complaint I was expressing an opinion based on personal experience. The mod didnt like my opinion so I got banned. I offered to provide evidence thus proving I was not talking gibberish but that offer was dismissed.
To TheNog, if you like I will provide evidence to prove what I said. As the chap from Donegal was jailed for a number of years and then cleared I feel no need to provide evidence for this incident but I can and will provide you (privately if you like) with a dozen examples of the Garda I was referring to. He is a rouge element in your organisation and does the rest of the force no credit.
To the Mods (all Mods), make ES private, its does not promote the Gardi in a positive light as it is and theres enough bad pr for an absolutely essential service without adding to it. ES does not allow debate of ideas IMO.

LIke I said to you, the reason for your ban was for trolling. Its also stated in the Charter that if you have a complaint to make then do so through the proper channels not on boards.

DeVore wrote: »

What is the purpose of the forum? If its to service complaints about the copper who smacked your mate down the road, then we have set it up wrong.

Absolutely not.

I thought its purpose was to allow interaction between members and recruits and potential recruits. I dont believe we should be a complaints department for the cops. No one here is authorised to speak for them and its always going to descend into trouble, plus its strangling the other voluntary services talking there it seems.

Thoughts?

The forum was setup for ES and like minded ES people to discuss their roles and for us all to learn from each other. We have also tried to facilitate non ES people with questions they have regarding practices/procedures as much as we can. In essence showing people what we do and why we do it.

Should we give non-police their own forum? Split it out by service?

DeV.

You could but I feel that no ES member would post there as enivitably it would turned into a Garda bashing forum where disinformation would be rife. The only people that would benefit are genuine trollers who want nothing more than to disrupt threads etc etc and influence peoples opinions on the ES services.

Eru

I really dont understand. Im being attacked in a snide manner by people because instead of going behind other users backs and moaning about them I say what I feel. Well personally I call that being honest and upfront. Its certainly how I would prefer to be treated than find myself being mentioned in here. Especially considering none of you have ever approached me via PM about any of this.

I also completely fail to understand why non ES users are so upset about the ES forum. Guys, its a forum for serving, ex or possible future es staff to chat and throw idea around.

Its not a bitching section nor is it a Q&A section to get free legal advise. In all honesty, I fail to understand why any of you want to post there. why not try posting in the Military section or after hours? Why do you all feel such a dire need to post in a section that designed for an occupation your not in?

And besides, theres far more occasions where questions recieve honest and good answers than smart ones but if your going to ignore the 5 users that have explained something to you and instead insist on making an incorrect and snide allegation against Gardai in the ES forum of all places, dont except a hug. Would you go to a Garda station to bitch about Gardai? Of course not so why go to the es forum with your complaints and expect us to welcome you with open arms? You dont see me in the motors section giving out about drivers on our roads do you? Or giving out about students from a specific college in that colleges sub forum? It makes no sense and appears to be a unique view held only for es

wouldn't it be better to make it private. such a small % of boards users fall into the "serving, have served or want to serve" category that it would be easy to deal with requests for access..

Eru

Deleted User wrote: »

wouldn't it be better to make it private. such a small % of boards users fall into the "serving, have served or want to serve" category that it would be easy to deal with requests for access..

Why though? were not lepers you know. We can have a public section just like Military does, or Motors. We just ask that you threat the section for what it is. A section for and about the subject, not a place to moan and complain about the subject then complain when we dont worship you for it.

Have a look at the es forum now. Most of the threads are against es not about it and looking for legal advise, Gardai are actually not allowed give advise nor is it a desire of ours to help someone avoid prosecution. Curious about some aspect? Ask away by all means but seriously, theres no logic in entering an es forum and posting accusations. You yourself have posted back to me about the body in the canal section where you are putting words in my mouth. At no stage did I accuse the OP of anything. He asked, I answered, simple but you took my answer as an accusation. Why?

TheNog

No need for it to be private as it would essentially be hidden from the general view. It would quickly become an old and stale forum with the same posters and nothing new coming into the forum.

Boston

DeVore wrote: »

What is the purpose of the forum? If its to service complaints about the copper who smacked your mate down the road, then we have set it up wrong.

I thought its purpose was to allow interaction between members and recruits and potential recruits. I dont believe we should be a complaints department for the cops. No one here is authorised to speak for them and its always going to descend into trouble, plus its strangling the other voluntary services talking there it seems.

Thoughts?

Should we give non-police their own forum? Split it out by service?

DeV.

The nog: Have a look at the LGB Forum and how its run. Here's another forum which is tightly controlled and potentially subject to alot of abuse from the wider boards.ie community, however we manage to see very little trolling or un -owards behaviour simply because of a long established way of dealing with things. You say the ES forum isn't a complaint forum, yet you tolerate complaints. They may all be genuine but a lot are presented very offensively which in turn irritates the natives to such a degree that when people like Des come along they get abused. You need to make it clear that the forum isn't for complaints but you'll tolerate a level of debate. That level of debate will eventually be arrived at in the form of a natural balance.

Offy

Deleted User wrote: »

wouldn't it be better to make it private. such a small % of boards users fall into the "serving, have served or want to serve" category that it would be easy to deal with requests for access..

I agree Dev, I did not read the charter (to be honest I dont read every charter, simply dont that that much time to spare, sry) so I thought ES was about issues to do with ES, my apologies to all for breaking the rules. If its private that sort of mistake wont happen again to any member of boards.
Maybe one forum for members working in ES about their working life/conditions/etc. and another for non-ES professionals about issues concerning ES and the public?

Eru

Eru wrote: »

Have a look at the es forum now. Most of the threads are against es not about it and looking for legal advise, Gardai are actually not allowed give advise nor is it a desire of ours to help someone avoid prosecution.

well i have one story where we were broken into while in the house and i'd like to ask some questions about it. but i'd probably get banned for being "against es".. the forum just seems like a closed shop.

TheNog wrote: »

No need for it to be private as it would essentially be hidden from the general view. It would quickly become an old and stale forum with the same posters and nothing new coming into the forum.

that's true also..

Offy

Offy wrote: »

I agree Dev, I did not read the charter (to be honest I dont read every charter, simply dont that that much time to spare, sry) so I thought ES was about issues to do with ES

i pretty much thought the very same thing till very recently... most boardsies would.

tallaght01

It seems that people are not allowed to post about their personal situations. That makes sense.

People should be allowed to post their negative opinions about the emergency services, if it's done civilly. Similarly, people don't have to reply to those threads. If they do, they should reply civilly.

I don't see why that's such an issue.

A lot of people perceive the gardai to be rude (I know it's not a garda forum, but that's really all that posts in there nowadays). But used in the right way, this could be good PR for the cops.

Civil responses to questions, with no nastiness tolerated on either side of the fence could foster better relations between the gardai and the public.

It's a bit cheesy to say, but the ES forum shouldn't be seen as a headache. It should be seen as something potentially very positive.
At the moment, it probably perpetuates the public's negative view of the gardai, but there's signs that things could be improving

Eru

Deleted User wrote: »

well i have one story where we were broken into while in the house and i'd like to ask some questions about it. but i'd probably get banned for being "against es".. the forum just seems like a closed shop.

I can guarantee that if you ask your question in a clear non confrontation manner it will get answered in the same manner but if your the victim of crime your going to have questions. Ask away but if the questions are accusations then yes, we will get thick as its not a complaints forum nor am I employed as a PR man for AGS. This is what I do off duty, which clearly makes me insane. :P

well, if you against es then you shouldnt be posting in the es section. that would seem obvious enough. Im betting homophobic dicks wouldnt last 5 seconds in the lbs section

Eru

tallaght01 wrote: »

It seems that people are not allowed to post about their personal situations. That makes sense.

People should be allowed to post their negative opinions about the emergency services, if it's done civilly. Similarly, people don't have to reply to those threads. If they do, they should reply civilly.

I don't see why that's such an issue.

A lot of people perceive the gardai to be rude (I know it's not a garda forum, but that's really all that posts in there nowadays). But used in the right way, this could be good PR for the cops.

Civil responses to questions, with no nastiness tolerated on either side of the fence could foster better relations between the gardai and the public.

It's a bit cheesy to say, but the ES forum shouldn't be seen as a headache. It should be seen as something potentially very positive.
At the moment, it probably perpetuates the public's negative view of the gardai, but there's signs that things could be improving

But thats not what the es section is for at all. Its nothing to do with complaints or pr for the Gardai.

Im off duty for gods sake, I go to es to chat with colleagues not foster relations, answer questions or give free legal lectures.
thats not the purpose at all. Simple reality, if your not es staff you have little reason to be on the es section other than maybe to clarify something.

Again, if your not military or interested in the military dont be in the military section. If your homophobic stay out of lbs section. Dont have a car? Why be in motors then. The list goes on and on. Want to complain about Gardai? Take it to a suitable area because it has nothing to do with the es forum

Boston

tallaght01 wrote: »

People should be allowed to post their negative opinions about the emergency services, if it's done civilly. Similarly, people don't have to reply to those threads. If they do, they should reply civilly.

Thats far from a given. You can't express outright negative views towards Muslims on the Islam forum or Gays on the LGBT forum ect. The principle is simple, the posters shouldn't have to defend themselves in their own back yard.

That said if someone shows a genuine interest in debating the negative view points then they should be allowed some freedom to do so.

It's a bit cheesy to say, but the ES forum shouldn't be seen as a headache. It should be seen as something potentially very positive.
At the moment, it probably perpetuates the public's negative view of the gardai, but there's signs that things could be improving

Very dangerous road to go down. The ES has no official link to any service and is not representative on any service. You start creating those links it won't be long before outsider start exerting influence over parts of boards.ie.