Training for a Cork '09 Sub 3

kennyb3

when are you planning on steppingup the distance of some of your runs? you dont seem to be doing any long ones and surely your shorter ones need to be bit faster if you want sub 3?

like i would run 8 miles @ 7.30 pace, its a big effort for me tho, and are probt tanking along doing that. im only a beginner tho and hope for about 3:40 in the DCM

not trying to put a dampner on things and suggesting your not on schedule just interested in your thought process/plan.

Gringo78

I'm not sure I neccessarily am on schedule but I'm coming from a period in Jan/Feb when I was barely able to run on the road at all. I am being very careful about what pace I run at the moment as I am stepping up the overall weekly mileage so want to be sure I am injury fere and not push it too hard. My last 'long' run would have been in early March, 14 mile @ 7:45 pace. I did a 10 miler the day after that at 7:30 pace and was very sore (shouldn't have done either run as I was injured)

After Ballycotton I decided I'd look after myself and up the mileage without any very long runs or speed work/intervals etc for about 3 weeks. I've gone over that 3 weeks now so will try to do a 16miler next week. My pace at the moment is deliberately held back but at the moment I am definetly not in sub 3hr shape - I feel though i'm running very strong at the moment and the morning runs at 7:30-7:45 pace are feeling really easy and relaxed. Sent in my entry for Cork marathon during the week and was a bit worried though when I realised the marathon is less than 9 weeks away!

Gringo78

40:00 for the UCC 10k today so very pleased with that. 7 miles today with warmups.

Gringo78

5.4 miles @7:35 pace this morning. No niggles from yesterdays race so great that I really do seem to be over the calf problems.

Gringo78

Week 14 Miles Summary (March 30th to April 5th 2009)
M – 8.75 T – 6.85 W – 6.8 T – 0 F – 6.85 S - 0 S – 7
36.3 miles

Killerz

Hi Gringo 78,

It seems like you've been getting through a fair amount of miles alright, but there really is nothing like getting up to the mid to late teens in terms of mileage on a single run, as thats where the body starts asking the questions! I think if you're feeling injuries coming up to these totals at the moment maybe you're pushing a bit too hard. worry less about the pace and more about getting in miles at this stage - its only 7 or 8 weeks to go, and 2 of those weeks will likely be lower mileage "taper" weeks.

I'm also doing the Cork Marathon this year (my second marathon after Dublin - time 3:48, last year), so am trying to get in the miles myself at the moment. Would love to get somewhere in between 3:30 - 3:40 for this one. However, I am away in Italy for a wedding the week before, but hopefully the hard work will be done by then, and I'll be tapering! Tapering with some fine Italian cuisine and wine!

Well done on the 40 min 10k - I'm looking to break that barrier myself - got 40:24 in Great Ireland Run on same day as your UCC.

Best of luck in the run up and indeed in the Marathon itself.

Gringo78

Great time on the 10k Run Killerz, I'd say it was hard to post a fast time at that race also with the crowds, lots of traffic to get through at the start.

Agree totally on the long runs, I really have to start to find the time now to do longer runs otherwise it'll be a painful learning experience on June 1st. Just back from holidays so have to get back on track now.

Best of luck in Cork and best of luck with the training until then

Gringo78

8 miles this morning @ 7:35 pace. Have been away on holidays so hadn't run in over a week and was happy with the run, not too many ill effects of the week off. Did plenty of swimming during the week which helped.

kevinkilbane

hi gringo 78.
i just read the whole thread. you are a good runner, excellent pace for 10k, and your training is done very good times, especially today, 8miles @7.35, fair play to ya. even though you are doing well, i really dont see how you will break 3hours for a marathon. if you do, congrats, and will you coach me please????? ha
but 179.59/26.2= 6:51 minutes per mile on average. it doesnt sound easy.

i am 24, i did cork last year, it was my 6th marathon. ive done belfast and dublin too, but cork is the hardest. first off, cork city centre is very hilly, a mile in the marathon is in the jack lynch tunnel, and also, its the bank holiday in june, too warm. i got 3.58, just made the 4hour. ill be happy with 3.59 this year. hopefully get a bit of rain too, then ill be laughing.

keep up the good training, best of luck in the first marathon.

--amadeus--

Please treat this post as a reality check - I'm not trying to take a cheap pop at you, knock you down or belittle you or your efforts. But I do think you need to stop and have a hard think about your targets and ambitions.

Sub 3 in a marathon is a big ask. Sub 3 in Cork (a relatively hilly race on a potentially hot day) is even harder. Sub 3 in your début marathon in Cork is even tougher. Sub 3 on your début in Cork off no long runs is virtually impossible.

For example I have run 9 marathons, I did 3*20 milers and 2*21 milers and clocked a 38:41 10k a couple of weeks before my last marathon. I ran 3:06. Slogger Jogger averaged 90kms per week for 16 weeks and ran 3:36 (though his PB is 3:06). Peckham and Sungod are two very talented and experienced runners who put in an average of 50+ miles per week before running 3:00 and 3:01. Road Runner - who runs sub 3 pretty easily - considers 6:30 min/miles to be pretty easy.

You have 6 or 7 weeks of proper training left before the taper for Cork and it looks like you have peaked at around 10 miles. With all due respect I think you need to sit down and have a read though some of the other logs on here and see the volumes of work that runners at the 3 hour mark put in and teh speeds they average. Compare it to your own log and maybe re-think your goals. Maybe aim at Dublin rather than Cork and build the mileage between now and then? Or set a more conservative target for Cork?

Like I said I don't want to be a huge negative and feel free to ignore this. But I know what it's like to run a marathon unprepared and it is very, very painful. Good luck with it regardless and if you want any advice on what you should be doing between now and Cork feel free to yell, either here or on the main forum.

kevinkilbane

good point amadeus.
if you wanna race long distance, youve just gotta train long distance.
and since its your first marathon, you do not know how your legs/feet/hips/back/arms etc will feel at 19miles+. and ya dont know what would be going through your head towards the end of a marathon either, i tell ya, it aint all rainbows and butterflies, especially in cork.

Gringo78

Agree with all of the above. However, I have said in an earlier post that I will decide my pace 2 weeks before the marathon. My goal is still sub 3 but I have a very good idea of what I am capable of any given week and I'm not capable of that right now and I probably won't be capable of it come June 1st, but I will pace myself for what I am capable of then whether that be 3:00 or 3:30. I'll get a few long runs in over the next few weeks and see where I'm at. This won't be my last marathon as I consider myself at the start of my running life so I'm not caught up on time although I have to set myself a tough target to motivate myself to keep training. If I ever achieve that (and I'm sure I will at some point, maybe just not this year) I will continue to set further time targets.

Gringo78

Ran 4 mile race yesterday evening. Had done 8 miles in the morning and a 2 mile warmup before the race so considering I already had 10 miles done before the race I was very happy with 25:35 as I had a lot left in the tank at the end. Did a further 2 mile cooldown so 16 miles yesterday. no ill effects today so thats good. No running this morning as will do a long slow run this afternoon.

Gringo78

13.5 miles yesterday evening at 7:40 pace. Hadn't intended going out running but as I was late at work on Friday never got to go running as intended on friday. Normally don't go running at the weekend but will try to make time for it over the next few weeks.
The run yesterday evening felt very easy and no ill effects today so will pace a little better on the shorter 8 mile runs now at maybe 7:15 pace and see how that goes.

Gringo78

11.75 miles @7:45 pace this morning. Felt a bit tired starting out but a few miles in and i felt fine. Forgot to drink anything when i got up in the morning (I never eat anything before the morning runs but always have a few glasses of water when i get up) so was thinking I might fade after 10 but I was fine

MCOS

What benefit do you see in doing 13+m and 12m runs at the same pace on consecutive days?

Have you re-evaluated your sub 3 goal yet?

Not having a poke here, I admire the courageous goal you have set yourself (given that you once showed the pace necessary)... just wondering when reality is going to set in for you Gringo78

Gringo78

The 2 runs were actually not on consecutive days - they were Sunday & Tuesday. They both fall into the category of Endurance training - Easy Run and are I think the type of run I should be doing the most of i.e 80-90% of my weekly mileage should be this type of run. I will do a race this week which will count as a tempo run. I will also do a Long Run either Friday or the weekend if work rules out friday. From here to the marathon, I have to continue with my base endurance miles and get in the Long Runs. I will do one speed session a week if at all.

Sub 3 is still my target....however, I'll need a big improvement and more consitency in my training between now and June and also some key races for me will tell me if I've improved enough to aim for it on the day. The John Treacy 10 mile is on May 17th and I will probably base my target time for Cork on my performance in that race. A 63min 10 mile and I will definetly aim for Sub 3, anything higher than 64min and i will not go for it.

heffsarmy

Miracle if you go sub 3! but with 6 weeks left you really should know your marathon pace, setting your marathon pace 2 weeks before your marathon not a good idea, since this is your first. You will find it very tough to do a 63min 10mile based on your UCC 10k time. This will take alot out off you, 3 to 4 weeks should be the taper for the marathon not racing hard. You will get caught out at around the 17mile as you have'nt got enough Endurance runs, 13.5 seems to be your longest, which in fairness for marathon training would'nt do much for your endurance. With 3 weeks left for proper training and the other 3weeks for taper, I would do a 17mile run this wk, 19mile next wk and a 20mile week after and forget about 10mile race, and with this plan you might break 3.15. Good luck in anyway!

Gringo78

Will go for those long runs over the next 3 weeks but may not be able to resist the temptation of racing the 10 miler. Only doing a 2 week taper so 4 weeks training left and then I'll know what shape I'm in. The long runs will tell me a lot (i.e should have done more and earlier). I will likely continue on with marathon training though over the summer and do Dublin Marathon so if Sub 3 is not to be this time, I will still have the goal.

SUNGOD

hi gringo best of luck in cork
its great to have goals and if they were easy to accomplish where would the the satisfaction and glory be.
you know you havent done enough so far in regards long runs etc but in the remaining weeks you can inhance your chances of a better finishing time by putting in some good sessions.
apart from elite runners i think its very hard to go sub 3 in your first marathon regardless of training.
my only worry would be starting too fast and suffering in the second half but if you do the 10 mile race you will have a much better idea of marathon pace.
as you said yourself you always have dublin to improve on your cork time.
looking forward to seeing how you progress
best of luck with it

Gringo78

SUNGOD wrote: »

as you said yourself you always have dublin to improve on your cork time.
looking forward to seeing how you progress
best of luck with it

Thanks Sungod. I should point out I intend to continue running marathons every year, this is not a one off fullfillment of a dream to run a marathon. It being my first marathon of course affords me the luxury of being assured a PB so long as I finish! I will err on the side of caution in selecting my race pace. I went out far too fast in a 15mile race before (prob 20sec a mile too fast) and learnt a valuable and painful lesson about pacing that day.

Gringo78

7 miles this morning @ 7:45 pace overall.

Gringo78

5 mile road race yesterday evening with a 4 mile warmup/cooldown. Ran 33:05 for the 5 mile on what was a very tough course, 1 mle laps of a course with a tough hill each time. Peoples times were a 1.5-2 min off a flatter course times. Twas really like a hill interval training session so twas good.

Gringo78

17 miles @avg 7:55 pace today. Didn't run by pace but ran by HR keeping it at 160 throughout. Was surprised at how much I had to slow down on hills to keep the HR @160 and was surprised looking afterwards at the splits...pace varied from avg 7:20 for 1 mile to 8:40 for another (which was probably mostly uphill). Felt tough after 15 I have to say and I was glad to be done but I felt it was a comfortable pace which was good considering I ran a pretty tough race less than 24hrs ago. Was able to get a drink of water after 7 miles and after 13miles and again after 16 miles. i have to say I was pretty thirsty by 13.

Killerz

Good man Gringo78 - seems like you're building up the mileage. Make sure you get plenty of fluids in as you go. As Heff's Army was saying, it would be wise to get in a 19 and 20 over the next two weeks to get yourself set.

Gringo78

Thanks killerz. Taking heffs good advice and getting a 19 in next week and 21 week after. Will base my marathon race target on HR. Will pace at 168bpm for last 5 miles of 21 miler and that average pace will be my target. Reckon its 7:15 a mile

Gringo78

April 26th

5.35 miles @ 7:40 pace. Avg HR 154. Easy Recovery run, good to be able to get out at the weekend.

April 27th

10.66 miles @7:40 pace Avg HR 152. Easy Run again this morning, felt good and rested and no ill effects after my first >50mile week the previous week.

Gringo78

Week 15 Miles Summary (April 6th to April 12th 2009)
M – 5.4 T – 0 W – 0 T – 0 F – 0 S - 0 S – 0
5.4 miles (Away on holidays for the week so swimming instead each day)

Week 16 Miles Summary (April 13th to April 19th 2009)
M – 0 T – 0 W – 0 T – 16 F – 0 S - 0 S – 13.5
29.5 miles (Holidays ate into this week also but some swimming again)

Week 17 Miles Summary (April 13th to April 19th 2009)
M – 0 T – 11.75 W – 7 T – 9 F – 17 S - 0 S – 5.35
50.1 miles

Gringo78

April 28th

7 miles @ 7:35 pace, Avg HR 156.

April 29th

Swimming this morning, calves felt a little sore this morning so decided to swim today, instead of run, and go for a soak in the Jacuzzi. The right decision I think now as the legs feel a lot better. Will run easy tomorrow morning and go for 19 mile run on friday.

--amadeus--

Gringo78 wrote: »

Thanks killerz. Taking heffs good advice and getting a 19 in next week and 21 week after. Will base my marathon race target on HR. Will pace at 168bpm for last 5 miles of 21 miler and that average pace will be my target. Reckon its 7:15 a mile

My pace drops by between 10 and 30 secs a mile for a constant HR over the last 10k of a marathon - it called HR Drift and is something you'll need to watch if you are pacing by HR on the day.