Need some advice (Power City Laptop Issue)

Tusky

My mother got a laptop for Christmas (it was only actually purchased at the start of January, so is roughly 2 months old). The thing has barely been used...very few programs installed on it, minimal usage all round.

The other day, it was giving errors when we tried to start it up. It was saying that the C disc was corrupted and to run the checkdisc program. When we ran that, it stalled half way through. I tried to start it up in safe mode but it just freezes and automatically restarts itself.

Now, I could probably find a solution and fix the thing, but seeing as the laptop is so fresh, and it seems like a hard drive problem, Id rather get it replaced. Otherwise we might have problems with it in the future.

So my mother brought it back to power city. The guy there told her that they dont take returns on laptops and apparently no retailers do. This I found hard to believe....surely hes talking bollix ? She asked to speak to a manager and he said that there were no managers there. Again, a shop that big has to have a manager or supervisor surely ? He gave her the number of Acer customer support.

I rang Acer and the guy said that we can send it back to their repair center in Northern Ireland but it may take a few weeks and if it turns out to be a software issue, we will have to pay the postage and the repair fee. I told him I didnt want to do this as she couldnt be without her laptop for that long. He said that we have a warranty with the retailer as well as the manufacturer and that Power City should replace the laptop...

So, what do I do ? We have a receipt and the thing is only two months old. I would have thought we were well within our rights to have Power City refund or exchange the laptop. I'm going to go up tomorrow but I want to get my facts straight first.

Sorry for the long post, all help appreciated.

johnciall

Guy int he shop is talking crap, plenty of retailers accept returns on faulty laptops, especially when it's hardware

Tusky

Ive just taken a look here : http://www.consumerassociation.ie/

Interesting bit :

Possible retailers response - Get it fixed under the manufacturer's guarantee

You do not have to accept this advice. Remind the retailer that your contract is with him, not the manufacturer. A guarantee is an added protection. It gives you the choice of having the goods fixed by the manufacturer under the guarantee or taking up the dispute with the retailer. A guarantee does not replace your legal rights in any way.

In some cases, using your guarantee may be the best option for convenience. For example, if you buy a hi-fi system and one switch is faulty, it might be easier to get the manufacturer to repair the switch under the guarantee, rather than expect the retailer to give you all your money back. If you decide to have the product repaired under the manufacturer's guarantee, ask the shop to lend you a replacement while yours is being repaired. The shop does not have to agree, but it may do it out of goodwill. Also, tell the shop (in writing) that you have decided to use the manufacturer's guarantee, but you reserve your statutory rights to a refund from the shop if the problem is not settled satisfactorily by the manufacturer

Guy:Incognito

The guy is badly rewording what manufacturers are telling them to do.

Sony for instance dont deal with the shops (or at least didnt before, I'm not in that line of work anymore) for laptop issues. They preferred if the customer contacted them themselves. They arranged with the customer to have it collected , sorted and delivered back.

Insisting on dealing with the shop in that instance is just adding a needless cog in an otherwise smooth running machine. All it serves to do is take longer for the issue to get sorted.

Tusky

Stekelly wrote: »

The guy is badly rewording what manufacturers are telling them to do.

Sony for instance dont deal with the shops (or at least didnt before, I'm not in that line of work anymore) for laptop issues. They preferred if the customer contacted them themselves. They arranged with the customer to have it collected , sorted and delivered back.

Insisting on dealing with the shop in that instance is just adding a needless cog in an otherwise smooth running machine. All it serves to do is take longer for the issue to get sorted.

But I'm within my rights to a refund or exchange from Power City surely ?

Komplett: Aaron

See http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Guides-to-Consumer-Law/Shopping/faults.html

They're obliged to take it back if it's faulty, and at least attempt a repair (if it is indeed the HDD that's faulty... It could be a software issue? I dunno.) Anyways, know your rights and wave them around: You're not automatically entitled to a replacement/refund (they're allowed give a repair); and if you have to ship anything anywhere, agree a price for shipping with them (acer or whoever) and keep the receipt, you're entitled to a refund.

In reality, sometimes it's far quicker and easier to deal with the manufacturer/their repair partner, as you cut out the retailer middle man. But if you pushed, the Power City guys should handle the return/repair etc.

Tusky

If its a software issue am I still within my rights to have Power City refund/repair/exchange it ? The only software that we installed on it was a legal bought copy of Microsoft Word and AVG antivirus.

Komplett: Aaron

Tusky wrote: »

If its a software issue am I still within my rights to have Power City refund/repair/exchange it ? The only software that we installed on it was a legal bought copy of Microsoft Word and AVG antivirus.

It sounds like a HDD (AKA hardware) fault, I agree. I'm just saying that if it were a software issue, it becomes more complex (let's say, for the sake of complete pie in the sky argument, that you caught a virus on the net... Then it's shadier.)

How and ever, whatever happens down the line, you're entitled to return it to Power City and demand they get it looked at before anything else happens; but in many cases as I say, it's simply handier to go straight through the manufacturer (which is what Power City would end up doing for you anyways.)

Tusky

Komplett_AMK wrote: »

It sounds like a HDD (AKA hardware) fault, I agree. I'm just saying that if it were a software issue, it becomes more complex (let's say, for the sake of complete pie in the sky argument, that you caught a virus on the net... Then it's shadier.)

How and ever, whatever happens down the line, you're entitled to return it to Power City and demand they get it looked at before anything else happens; but in many cases as I say, it's simply handier to go straight through the manufacturer (which is what Power City would end up doing for you anyways.)

Hmm - maybe my best option is to being it back to Power City and try to argue my way to a refund or exchange. If that doesnt work, I'll just send it back to Acer rather than have Power City try to repair it as it would be quicker.

Komplett: Aaron

Tusky wrote: »

Hmm - maybe my best option is to being it back to Power City and try to argue my way to a refund or exchange. If that doesnt work, I'll just send it back to Acer rather than have Power City try to repair it as it would be quicker.

Sure - but I doubt you'll get a refund or exchange straight up, because then Power City is out of pocket through no fault of their own (the fault developing in the laptop, as manufactured by Acer.) And, on behalf of all brother retailers, don't start screaming, the guy at the counter wants to help you, even if just to stop the noise that'll keep him awake at night

subway

komplett, perhaps you should stick to selling gear, rather than giving consumer advice.
its iirelevant whether the shop is out of pocket, the consumer in ireland has rights.

there are no managers in power city shops, just sales staff.
i learned this after 2 sales guys pretended to be managers in order to fob me off
i have had huge issues with them in the past not having a clue about consumer rights and have got my refunds via SCC as power city wouldnt help.


i would suggest calling the head office, followed by a letter, but from my experieince they wont be much help
i dont know what you can do if they wont attempt a repair, other than going to scc.

Komplett: Aaron

subway wrote: »

komplett, perhaps you should stick to selling gear, rather than giving consumer advice.
its iirelevant whether the shop is out of pocket, the consumer in ireland has rights.

And I'm telling him what they are, having somewhat in-depth experience of it... Look at the link above, in the event of a faulty product a straight-up replacement/refund is not always the first recourse if a repair is possible.

Tusky

subway wrote: »

komplett, perhaps you should stick to selling gear, rather than giving consumer advice.
its iirelevant whether the shop is out of pocket, the consumer in ireland has rights.

there are no managers in power city shops, just sales staff.
i learned this after 2 sales guys pretended to be managers in order to fob me off
i have had huge issues with them in the past not having a clue about consumer rights and have got my refunds via SCC as power city wouldnt help.


i would suggest calling the head office, followed by a letter, but from my experieince they wont be much help
i dont know what you can do if they wont attempt a repair, other than going to scc.

I find it seriously hard to believe that stores that large are run without a manager. Who is telling everyone what to do ? Who is running the place ? It makes no sense that they wouldnt have a manager.

What is SCC ?

Komplett_AMK wrote: »

Sure - but I doubt you'll get a refund or exchange straight up, because then Power City is out of pocket through no fault of their own

This has nothing to do with me though. Surely thats the risk you take as a retailer ? Their beef should be with Acer for supplying them with a dodgy laptop.

MarkR

To save your self any hassle, it would be best to verify if it is a hardware fault or not. Easiest way to do this is to save off any files you want to keep onto an external drive. (You should do this anyway if you think you may be sending it for repair / replacement)

Once that's done use the installation discs that came with the drive to format the hard drive and reinstall windows. It is very easy to do.

If it fails at any stage during the re-installation, you've ruled out software as a problem. Once that's done you can contact the manufacturer / shop to arrange a repair. After two months it's unlikely that you can get a replacement.

subway

SCC = small claims court

i visited power city around 10 times in total and was told the only way to speak with a manager is over the phone.
except twice when someone pretended to be a manager (his colleagues and head office confirmed he wasnt)

swingking

I had an issue with a laptop bought in Powercity. Here's what I did, although I'm not sure if this will work for you.

I went to the shop about 10 mins from closing time and there I confronted the staff. I could see that they were dying to get home and not having to deal with a return. In the end they rang up head office and processed an exchange.

The best advice I can give anyone when approaching customer services is to be polite and friendly. Let the sales staff see that you are not gonna be an angry bastard and that you are a genuine case.

try to find someone who looks older too. Going to one of the young staff workers is not gonna work in your favour as they are likely to be inexperienced.

Lastly, make sure you go in armed with knowledge of your consumer rights but don't use them if you get pissed off. Get the names of the staff members you dealt with and note the course of action taken by the staff.

Best of luck

Kensington

@OP:
Which branch of powercity did you return the laptop to? And what is displayed on the screen when you try to start up the laptop? Do any messages or screens come up?

---

As regards returns - since the laptop is two months old, it was bought new but has developed a fault. Powercity are within their rights to insist on a Repair, which is what they will do. If the laptop was purchased with the fault, then absolutely you could argue Refund or immediate Replacement.

Secondly, the reason Acer support is there, and why people are directed toward it is because Acer like to troubleshoot over the phone prior to having a repair case done. I'd easily say over half the time people return things, there's nothing wrong with the product at all. Sure, legally your contract is with Powercity when a fault occurs and you can insist away that they deal with it, but it's a hell of a lot quicker and easier doing it over the phone with the manufacturer direct. Acer will pick up the laptop from your house and drop it back once repaired. It won't take "weeks" either. Saves you having to go to the store, drop it in, wait for it to come back and then go up to the store to pick it up again. Obviously, if the problem with the laptop is not hardware and is instead software configuration or is down to something the user did, then they will charge you for it.

Thirdly, returns in Powercity are authorised through their head office. While there are store managers in Powercity branches, they are still going through head office when processing returns, particularly those of this value.

Tusky

Kensington wrote: »

@OP:
Which branch of powercity did you return the laptop to? And what is displayed on the screen when you try to start up the laptop? Do any messages or screens come up?

---

As regards returns - since the laptop is two months old, it was bought new but has developed a fault. Powercity are within their rights to insist on a Repair, which is what they will do. If the laptop was purchased with the fault, then absolutely you could argue Refund or immediate Replacement.

Secondly, the reason Acer support is there, and why people are directed toward it is because Acer like to troubleshoot over the phone prior to having a repair case done. I'd easily say over half the time people return things, there's nothing wrong with the product at all. Sure, legally your contract is with Powercity when a fault occurs and you can insist away that they deal with it, but it's a hell of a lot quicker and easier doing it over the phone with the manufacturer direct. Acer will pick up the laptop from your house and drop it back once repaired. It won't take "weeks" either. Saves you having to go to the store, drop it in, wait for it to come back and then go up to the store to pick it up again. Obviously, if the problem with the laptop is not hardware and is instead software configuration or is down to something the user did, then they will charge you for it.

Thirdly, returns in Powercity are authorised through their head office. While there are store managers in Powercity branches, they are still going through head office when processing returns, particularly those of this value.

Do you have no warranty coverage with Power City in regards to software faults ?

rameire

you can bring it back to powercity, they have the option to send it off to acer to be checked, and repaired if required, they dont have to give a replacement or refund without repair.
if it is a hardward fault they will fic it and return it
if it is a software fault they will fix it and charge you 120 euro and delivery costs.
youll then go to power city to pick it up and they will charge you the fee and you will most likely flip out, i know i would.

the easiest option of course would be go straight to acer yourself, and takeout power****y altogether, i know its what i would do.

the first option i would try would be to restart the laptop until it actually starts up, trust me it eventually will.
try not to start in safe mode, try normal mode.
when it does eventually start up.
do a disk cleanup, a disk defragment.
do a virus scan
and try if you can to do a restore, to a previous restore point.
when you do do a disk cleanup and defrag and virus scan again.

Kensington

No shop gives you a warranty as such, with software faults. If you get a virus or if you completely shag up installing a program, or pull the power while the laptop is installing updates, then that's down to the user and not the shop

Tusky

rameire wrote: »

you can bring it back to powercity, they have the option to send it off to acer to be checked, and repaired if required, they dont have to give a replacement or refund without repair.
if it is a hardward fault they will fic it and return it
if it is a software fault they will fix it and charge you 120 euro and delivery costs.
youll then go to power city to pick it up and they will charge you the fee and you will most likely flip out, i know i would.

the easiest option of course would be go straight to acer yourself, and takeout power****y altogether, i know its what i would do.

the first option i would try would be to restart the laptop until it actually starts up, trust me it eventually will.
try not to start in safe mode, try normal mode.
when it does eventually start up.
do a disk cleanup, a disk defragment.
do a virus scan
and try if you can to do a restore, to a previous restore point.
when you do do a disk cleanup and defrag and virus scan again.

Nah - I'm pretty sure it wont start up, Ive tried about 10 times at this stage.

foggy_lad

Tusky wrote: »

Nah - I'm pretty sure it wont start up, Ive tried about 10 times at this stage.

you should plug out the laptop and remove the battery then press the power button for about 20 seconds then try to start up the laptop again and let it try to start up for at least 5 minutes,

if that fails then power it off by pressing and holding the power button for 4seconds. as you said there was very little stored on the laptop you would probably not mind losing it? if you dont mind then try turning it on again and as soon as the acer screen appears press ctrl and F10 together to use the recovery partition to restore to factory settings

if this works(should take 1-2hours) then your sorted or if not it is most likely a hardware issue which you must give power city the opportunity to fix before you can ask for a replacement or refund!

BrookieD

Hi
As the Head of Support for Brother we actively tell Powercity to refer all customers back to Brother Support for investigation/repair or possibly replacement. Powercity are only used as a through port as they are the dealer. They have no power to act on our behalf so i would imagine other manufactures could well ask that you be referenced back to there own support desks.

There is NO WAY that you should be asked to pay for a repair on a 2 month old product. They should pick up and deliver for free and also repair or replace the unit for you at no cost. If i was to invoke a repair charge for a product that has a 2 year warranty and failed after 2 months i would be shot.

overexcitedaj

Before any refund or replacement could be given surely it must be tested first to see if it is a hardware fault. No doubting you but someone could just change their mind after a month and want their money back, go into A retailer and list off faults attempting to get their money back.
Just saying this cos ive seen it first hand :rolleyes:

overexcitedaj

BrookieD wrote: »

Hi
As the Head of Support for Brother we actively tell Powercity to refer all customers back to Brother Support for investigation/repair or possibly replacement. Powercity are only used as a through port as they are the dealer. They have no power to act on our behalf so i would imagine other manufactures could well ask that you be referenced back to there own support desks.

There is NO WAY that you should be asked to pay for a repair on a 2 month old product. They should pick up and deliver for free and also repair or replace the unit for you at no cost. If i was to invoke a repair charge for a product that has a 2 year warranty and failed after 2 months i would be shot.

Well if a problem is due to software loaded by the user it is not the covered in the warranty so they would certainly charge for repair and delivery fees no?

BrookieD

True thats were an investigation kicks in, we operate on a free collection and delivery for investigations. If the fault in our case is caused through 3rd party inks bing used the customer would be invoiced for the repair but we would still collect and deliver FOC.

If the customer refuses to pay then we keep return the machine unfixed.

same would apply. in a laptop. Investigate the error - If 3rd party software caused the issue then a charge could be levied. Only right IMHO

subway

BrookieD wrote: »

Hi
As the Head of Support for Brother we actively tell Powercity to refer all customers back to Brother Support for investigation/repair or possibly replacement. Powercity are only used as a through port as they are the dealer. They have no power to act on our behalf so i would imagine other manufactures could well ask that you be referenced back to there own support desks.

There is NO WAY that you should be asked to pay for a repair on a 2 month old product. They should pick up and deliver for free and also repair or replace the unit for you at no cost. If i was to invoke a repair charge for a product that has a 2 year warranty and failed after 2 months i would be shot.

the consumers is in contract with powercity and cannot be told to contact the manufacturer.
consumer returns item to power city for repair, power city deal with manufacturer.
if not dealt with in reasonable time or repair is not satisfactory then the customer can ask for a refund or replacement.

when you say they have no power to act in your behalf, thats 100% irrelevant, as you are not a party to a contract between the customer and the store.

BrookieD

Your quite right about the contract of sale between the customer and dealer but the manufacture needs an eliment of control in all possible returns.

We have a Returns policy that all dealers whom deal with Brother Ireland must follow.
Any dealer signs up to this and acts accordingly. Thats not to say that on odd occasions they can decide to refund a customer IF a machine is faulty within 30 days of purchase then it can be refunded or replaced no question.

The problem arises when a dealer tries to claim credit for a machine that is older than 30 days past purchase and not been authorized as a replacement. Credit can be refused as we have not has a chance to investigate the machine in question.

This stops dealers just throwing machine back left , right and center for credit where machines have no fault in the, Which quite often is the case.

We get advised by many dealers of no power in the machine and the machine when back to us is in perfect working order. The machine is therefore sent back to the dealer to give back to the customer.

In the case of this laptop it is quite right that they have been referred back to Acer but the dealer can also act on behalf of the customer to contact Acer to arrange collection for investigation.
We have a direct line with all dealers stores where if it is difficult for the customer to contact the Customer helpline,Then they have a dealer helpline where we can speak with what ever dealer to again arrange a collection.

This saves the customer time and also gives the store the chance to correct the fault before the customer leaves.

This model of support has been so successful for Brother that we have very little issues with returns for repairs, In fact due to this support model Brothers sales increased as all dealers had a back up line and proper service and support in place.

Any customer that has issues with our product has full back up support and is very happy with the way our support is now run.

Komplett: Aaron

This has nothing to do with me though. Surely thats the risk you take as a retailer ? Their beef should be with Acer for supplying them with a dodgy laptop.

I'm just telling you what the law says...

subway

BrookieD wrote: »

Your quite right about the contract of sale between the customer and dealer but the manufacture needs an eliment of control in all possible returns.

We have a Returns policy that all dealers whom deal with Brother Ireland must follow.
Any dealer signs up to this and acts accordingly. Thats not to say that on odd occasions they can decide to refund a customer IF a machine is faulty within 30 days of purchase then it can be refunded or replaced no question.

The problem arises when a dealer tries to claim credit for a machine that is older than 30 days past purchase and not been authorized as a replacement. Credit can be refused as we have not has a chance to investigate the machine in question.

This stops dealers just throwing machine back left , right and center for credit where machines have no fault in the, Which quite often is the case.

We get advised by many dealers of no power in the machine and the machine when back to us is in perfect working order. The machine is therefore sent back to the dealer to give back to the customer.

In the case of this laptop it is quite right that they have been referred back to Acer but the dealer can also act on behalf of the customer to contact Acer to arrange collection for investigation.
We have a direct line with all dealers stores where if it is difficult for the customer to contact the Customer helpline,Then they have a dealer helpline where we can speak with what ever dealer to again arrange a collection.

This saves the customer time and also gives the store the chance to correct the fault before the customer leaves.

This model of support has been so successful for Brother that we have very little issues with returns for repairs, In fact due to this support model Brothers sales increased as all dealers had a back up line and proper service and support in place.

Any customer that has issues with our product has full back up support and is very happy with the way our support is now run.

i have to say, i agree with everything you've said in your post.
without adequate controls, there would be refunds given to customers everytime they had an issue.

the control, in this instance, is that the retailer is allowed a reasonable amount of time to liaise with the manufacturer and determine the source of the fault.

this works well where the customer gives the machine to the supplier and waits for a repsonse.
there are cases where it works better for the customer to contact the manufacturer (yours for example, although i take your statements of satisfaction with a large pinch of salt since;)) but in this case, where the customer is expected to pay shipping costs and repair fees it makes more sense to bring it to power city and ask them to deal with it.

power city sell laptops so they should be in aposition to provide customers assistance with them.
the same way they sell washing machines and have to deal with failures there too.
they dont have washing machine technicians but they do have mechanisms in place to resolve warranty issues.

Kensington

subway wrote: »

but in this case, where the customer is expected to pay shipping costs and repair fees it makes more sense to bring it to power city and ask them to deal with it.

But they're not being expected to pay shipping costs or repair fees . The only mention of the customer possibly being charged for transport/labour costs is if the "fault" with the laptop is not actually a fault with the hardware itself, but a software one. If the fault with the unit is actually a defect in hardware, then Acer will fully cover the cost of shipping the unit between the customer and their service centre, and shipping it back from the service centre to the customer.

subway wrote: »

power city sell laptops so they should be in aposition to provide customers assistance with them.
the same way they sell washing machines and have to deal with failures there too.
they dont have washing machine technicians but they do have mechanisms in place to resolve warranty issues.

Powercity have service agents for laptops just the way they do with washing machines. It just so happens that the service agent for Acer laptops, is Acer themselves. The same is the case with HP machines.