Whats is the current status of threatened strikes at Dublin Bus

rokz

The big question is how will it all end..?

AlekSmart

The big question is how will it all end..?

In tears,I suspect......

AlekSmart

There may well be just a little glimmer of sanity starting to appear in this appallingly mishandled farce.

As it currently stands the Labour Court Recommendation,in itself something a Jesuit might delight in,might have the right amount of compromise needed to swing an acceptance.

With the NBRU membership meeting on Monday we may have by then some idea of whether the Company is prepared to embrace reality in the same manner as it is asking it`s workforce to do.

One of the remaining core issues is the continuing presence of the large amount of new schedules (bills) which,if we are to believe the Company,are ready for implimentation immediately.

However,as of the 2nd of April,the company assured the NBRU by letter that it would engage with the Unions as per the current schedule draughting rules up to and including the Independent Schedules Tribunal (Whose decision is Binding).

If the company withdraw the mass-alteration programme and agree to proceed with a somewhat more reasoned approach to the issue then I would think many of the marked-in staff would have to consider their position.

The entire Stage-Managed disaster really has allowed the MInister for Transport and the Government to side step what should be some serious questioning as to its credibility and its responsibility towards the 290 staff who are threatened with redundancy (Voluntary or otherwise).

We still do not have any adequate explanation for the Government`s abandonment of a core plank of its Sustainable Transport Initiative at a time when the Country faces yet more pressure on its Carbon Emissions reduction strategy.

There are also serious questions as to the Minister for Transport having a conflicting Dual Mandate by which he expects to act in the best interests of the States Public Transport Company AND ITS CUSTOMERS whilst coincedentally presiding over major PPP Toll Road schemes,the success of which depend on maintaining a level of PRIVATE Car usage over and above the current norm.

I,for one,would like to see some intrepid investigative journalist pull at this very obvious conflict of interest thread to see what might unravel.... :rolleyes:

shltter

AlekSmart wrote: »

There may well be just a little glimmer of sanity starting to appear in this appallingly mishandled farce.

As it currently stands the Labour Court Recommendation,in itself something a Jesuit might delight in,might have the right amount of compromise needed to swing an acceptance.

With the NBRU membership meeting on Monday we may have by then some idea of whether the Company is prepared to embrace reality in the same manner as it is asking it`s workforce to do.

One of the remaining core issues is the continuing presence of the large amount of new schedules (bills) which,if we are to believe the Company,are ready for implimentation immediately.

However,as of the 2nd of April,the company assured the NBRU by letter that it would engage with the Unions as per the current schedule draughting rules up to and including the Independent Schedules Tribunal (Whose decision is Binding).

If the company withdraw the mass-alteration programme and agree to proceed with a somewhat more reasoned approach to the issue then I would think many of the marked-in staff would have to consider their position.

The entire Stage-Managed disaster really has allowed the MInister for Transport and the Government to side step what should be some serious questioning as to its credibility and its responsibility towards the 290 staff who are threatened with redundancy (Voluntary or otherwise).

We still do not have any adequate explanation for the Government`s abandonment of a core plank of its Sustainable Transport Initiative at a time when the Country faces yet more pressure on its Carbon Emissions reduction strategy.

There are also serious questions as to the Minister for Transport having a conflicting Dual Mandate by which he expects to act in the best interests of the States Public Transport Company AND ITS CUSTOMERS whilst coincedentally presiding over major PPP Toll Road schemes,the success of which depend on maintaining a level of PRIVATE Car usage over and above the current norm.

I,for one,would like to see some intrepid investigative journalist pull at this very obvious conflict of interest thread to see what might unravel.... :rolleyes:

Difficult to see how all these schedules can be processed in the normal agreed manner and the company remove 120 buses by the 26th of this month.




They can't remove buses till they have a bill to replace the current one.

rokz

AlekSmart wrote: »

There may well be just a little glimmer of sanity starting to appear in this appallingly mishandled farce.

As it currently stands the Labour Court Recommendation,in itself something a Jesuit might delight in,might have the right amount of compromise needed to swing an acceptance.

With the NBRU membership meeting on Monday we may have by then some idea of whether the Company is prepared to embrace reality in the same manner as it is asking it`s workforce to do.

One of the remaining core issues is the continuing presence of the large amount of new schedules (bills) which,if we are to believe the Company,are ready for implimentation immediately.

However,as of the 2nd of April,the company assured the NBRU by letter that it would engage with the Unions as per the current schedule draughting rules up to and including the Independent Schedules Tribunal (Whose decision is Binding).

If the company withdraw the mass-alteration programme and agree to proceed with a somewhat more reasoned approach to the issue then I would think many of the marked-in staff would have to consider their position.

The entire Stage-Managed disaster really has allowed the MInister for Transport and the Government to side step what should be some serious questioning as to its credibility and its responsibility towards the 290 staff who are threatened with redundancy (Voluntary or otherwise).

We still do not have any adequate explanation for the Government`s abandonment of a core plank of its Sustainable Transport Initiative at a time when the Country faces yet more pressure on its Carbon Emissions reduction strategy.

There are also serious questions as to the Minister for Transport having a conflicting Dual Mandate by which he expects to act in the best interests of the States Public Transport Company AND ITS CUSTOMERS whilst coincedentally presiding over major PPP Toll Road schemes,the success of which depend on maintaining a level of PRIVATE Car usage over and above the current norm.

I,for one,would like to see some intrepid investigative journalist pull at this very obvious conflict of interest thread to see what might unravel.... :rolleyes:

Wish you the best of luck if you are willing to forward your comments onto the media..I have endevoured to express my comments by contacting Noel Dempsey.But sadly his reply was..
" Dear Dave,

I wish to acknowledge receipt of your e-mail dated 10th February 2009 regarding previous correspondence to you.

A further reply will issue to you as soon as possible.


Yours sincerely,





___________________
Noel Dempsey T.D.
Minister for Transport

Dear Dave

I refer again to your e-mail regarding Dublin Bus.

I wish to advise you that the matter you have raised is a human resources issue for Dublin Bus and not one in which I have any role.

Yours sincerely





________________
Noel Dempsey, T.D.
Minister for Transport


I feel you have hit the nail right on the head regarding his policies....As for the media ..i have also sent them a letter. but failing to add your conflict of interest point......nice one
[/FONT]

AlekSmart

I wish to advise you that the matter you have raised is a human resources issue for Dublin Bus and not one in which I have any role.

And that,Dear Dave,elequently sums up the Ministers position on the matter,however it is NOT an accurate statement and esssentially preserves the age old Political dictat of "If you don`t ask me the right questions,I wont give U the relevant answers"

This situation is TOTALLY of the Ministers making ....100%.
It has caught Bus Atha Cliath Management as much by surprise as it has the Staff.
However bith the Minister and Dr John Lynch (Chairman of CIE) would appear to have other issues which merit their attention.

rokz

Hi ALEK
Well the wheels are truly in motion now.It is so sad. how naive the general public are.!
Why is this..? ..I believe they are controlled by the media.and the media is controlled by the government.
http://www.politics.ie/media/22462-rte-investigative-journalism-stymied-government-censors.html
and what a winning combination.So how on earth can all this disception and corruption be exposed...?.I have even sent e mails to the opposition parties with no avail.So my conclusion is. we are sarrounded by a huge population of death,blind and fearfull sheep.

rokz

could that be a triple mandate...considering it's obligation towards c02...?

confused-dazed

from what i've been told bus drivers are holding a ballot today to accept or reject the labour court recommendations.

KC61

From The Irish Times today:

Dublin Bus management warns against any further concessions
MARTIN WALL, Industry Correspondent

MANAGEMENT AT Dublin Bus has warned trade unions that the industrial relations process over a controversial cost-containment plan has reached the end of the road and that no further concessions are possible.

The results of ballots of drivers at Dublin Bus, who are members of Siptu and the National Bus and Rail Union, on compromise proposals drawn up by the Labour Court last week will be known today.

There have been suggestions in recent days that these settlement terms may be rejected by drivers.

In a letter to the two unions yesterday, the company said it had accepted the Labour Court’s recommendation and that given its current serious financial position, it had to implement the cost-containment plan from this Sunday.

In the letter to the unions, the company’s human resources manager Gerry Maguire said: “Given that we are at the end of the line in as far as the industrial relations machinery is concerned, and with no more concessions possible by the company, rejection of the proposals would mean a lot of hardship on our customers and indeed will also create financial hardship for the staff in the event of a dispute occurring.”

“In this regard, I would urge your offices to impress on staff that the Labour Court recommendation is as much as can be accepted from a company’s point of view,” he said.

Dublin Bus said it was available for meetings “to deal with any issues relating to the documents and its implementation between now and Sunday next”.

In its settlement proposals, the Labour Court said Dublin Bus could go ahead without delay with plans to take 120 buses from its fleet. However it also proposed that weekend overtime earning potential for drivers be increased.

It also said that there should be no dilution of current shift pay arrangements.

However it proposed changes to current paid meal break arrangements for drivers which the company believes could generate about €350,000 in savings.

Dublin Bus is seeking to implement new cost-saving measures in a bid to address a potential €31 million deficit this year.

MiniD

KC61 wrote: »

In a letter to the two unions yesterday, the company said it had accepted the Labour Court’s recommendation and that given its current serious financial position, it had to implement the cost-containment plan from this Sunday.

Surely less than a week's notice to passengers is not acceptable. If the company plans to take 120 buses off the road this week, they should at least explain to passengers how this will affect them. From what we have heard, this is not a simple timetable change which normally gets posted on the Dublin Bus website on a Friday afternoon before a weekend change. These changes will affect a lot of people.

markpb

rokz wrote: »

"
Dear Dave

I refer again to your e-mail regarding Dublin Bus.

I wish to advise you that the matter you have raised is a human resources issue for Dublin Bus and not one in which I have any role.

Yours sincerely
_______________
Noel Dempsey, T.D.
Minister for No Transport

You should mail him back and ask him what directly elected person is responsible for the bus services in Dublin which are funded by your taxes.

AlekSmart

I have a deal of sympathy for the position Gerry Maguire and his management team now find themselves in as they attempt to satisfy a Political Master who has "Gone Native".

It is now becoming ever clearer that Minister Noel Dempsey is deeply embedded in a turgid mess which has little to do with facilitating or improving Public Transport Services which WILL be needed to a far greater degree than most admit to now.

The Minister has presided over a very recent situation whereby he and his Department effectively abdicated their responsibilities in relation to the CIE Road Passenger companies by requiring the companies to accquire EXTRA vehicles and ADDITIONAL Staff to meet the NDP and Transport21 Public Transport targets.

Left to their own devices neither of the companies would have embarked upon such an expansion in that time-frame.

The situation today will I believe be a very close-run result as the wages-grade workforce are not in a particularly co-operative frame of mind.

This mindset has not been helped by recent examples of Rushes-of-Blood to the heads of several senior Supervisory Figures who,in what COULD be taken as a display of self-preserving panic,have embarked on crusades of Discipline to rival the best Sergeant Major our Defence Forces might have.

These displays,usually carried out from concealed positions or from the comfort of a well positioned Staff-Car have thus far been directed 100% at Staff Discipline issues.

Garages themselves are choc-a-bloc with clean-cut managerial grades,each with a new and VERY important task,usually revolving around the generation of yet another paper mountain.

However,out on the streets,the REAL issues go ignored with Customer Information,when present,either poorly presented or downright incorrect.
Route Information appearing on wrong stops.
No route information at all.
No Stops at all.
Total refusal to even so much as acknowledge serious and long running safety issues with many strategic Stop and Termini locations.

And always....a total inability of the SAME senior supervisory grade to respond to assistance calls when Fare Evasion or Passenger Behavious issues are occuring.

Drivers and even Controllers are left to cobble together rersponses to the daily run of the mill stuff,which usually ensures that these "Issues" remain unaddressed and eventually become reasons for the Company to lose yet another regular fare-paying passenger as they become fed-up with having to tolerate nonsensical anti-social behaviour from the SIZEABLE numbers who now have free reign on our services.

MinsD is absolutely correct,One Weeks notice is NOT sufficient,however that`s not going to happen because there is NO notice planned at all.

Individual Garages have displays of new schedules which are in the main so full of errata as to be meaningless.

Yet the core issue remains unaddressed...The withdrawal of the 120 Buses.

This represents Noel Dempsey`s "Fight to the Death" instructions to the Management teams of the CIE companies.

Quite why the Minister for Transport wishes to abrogate his responsibilities towards sustainable public transport is another matter,but conjecture points us in the direction of some VERY serious funding problems,even irregularities,in the NRA`s flagship PPP Toll Road schemes.

However in this instance Minister Dempsey has prevailed and has certainly availed himself of some seriously effective PR advice......which should buy him some time at least.

However,mark my words markpb,this entire sordid event will return to haunt Minister Dempsey and one or two of his advisors.....

dub_commuter

The latest management spin is now out:
Given that we are at the end of the line in as far as the industrial relations machinery is concerned, and with no more concessions possible by the company, rejection of the proposals would mean a lot of hardship on our customers and indeed will also create financial hardship for the staff in the event of a dispute occurring

Isn't that so nice of them standing up for their customers and wanting to protect their interests. I mean, they're always done there very best for them and put them first and would never do anything to create them hassle.

And look at those big bad drivers, actually daring to stand up for taking 120 buses off the road, which DB seem to constantly be getting away from, and seem to be making this row to be about the greedy drivers, and the media are more interested in reporting this then about the scandalous route cuts that will happen.

Dub13

I hear this got rejected by less than 30 votes in both unions,they are having a re count now.

Cleopatra12

Rejected by a margin of just over one per cent... Heard there were 6 votes in it. Will get confirmation soon tho

Cleopatra12

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyauojidgbgb/

and there will be a ballot held for strike action this week now as the mandate for previous strike action has run out.

liger

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyauojidgbgb/

and there will be a ballot held for strike action this week now as the mandate for previous strike action has run out.

NBRU confirmed at their meeting yesterday that mandate still valid for strike.

Cleopatra12

Well the SIPTU one is not

the boss of me

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyauojidgbgb/

and there will be a ballot held for strike action this week now as the mandate for previous strike action has run out.

So what will happen if members vote against industrial action ? Will the companies' original proposals be implemented on Sunday ?

Cleopatra12

Well according to the HR manager who was quoted in the IT today, all avenues of resolution had been investigated. There is no more that can be done re the LRC. The LRC document said this (am almost sure on this). So the origianl cost cutting plan will be brought in.

There will be another ballot for industrial action by SIPTU. If passed, there will be a strike. Cant imagine that a ballot for industrial action would be rejected as 2 amendments, negotiated and agreed on by both unions and the comany, to the origianl cost cutting plan have been rejected.

See below for what was said by management...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0407/breaking78.htm

Cleopatra12

the boss of me wrote: »

So what will happen if members vote against industrial action ? Will the companies' original proposals be implemented on Sunday ?

Irrespective of an industrial action ballot, the cost cutting plan will now come into effect. (or so thats the plan)

the boss of me

Cleopatra12 wrote: »

Irrespective of an industrial action ballot, the cost cutting plan will now come into effect. (or so thats the plan)

And as I understand it the drivers will not work the new bills so the strike seems unavoidable at this stage.

dub_commuter

I just called Dublin Bus in relation to new timetables, and they said that they will be released on Sunday morning, and will be active that day. they told me that if I had any questions I should contact the garage when they come out, obviously they will leave the garages out to dry in the safe knowledge that head office is closed to avoid taking the flack themselves.

I bloody hope there is an all out strike, I really do because the incompetence of management is amazing and there really needs to be a clean sweep.

markpb

dub_commuter wrote: »

I just called Dublin Bus in relation to new timetables, and they said that they will be released on Sunday morning, and will be active that day. they told me that if I had any questions I should contact the garage when they come out

You mean to say the timetables will change with zero notice? That's insane.

dub_commuter

My other half phoned my local garage just after , and she was told that it was more likely to be Friday or Saturday as they reckon nobody will be working on Sunday!

Also told her that nobody in Harristown was behind some of the route cuts that were happening, but they couldn't give me full details, but there would be major changes to areas that didn't warrant such changes, and areas not being cut that they feel there should be according to their ticket machine information.

meanmachine3

markpb wrote: »

You mean to say the timetables will change with zero notice? That's insane.

well not exactly, new timetables are going up and being taken down in garages as things were coming and going over the L.R.C. and the labour court. the drivers had an idea of what the changes were, but to you the general public your quote markpb is accurate and quite correct.
i personally voted no for a number of reasons. first being route identity. i have my own route, it's handy but the bill is absolute ****e. these new changes meant that because i run late all the time i could be instructed to to another route that might have slightly less running time. no way am i doing something like that.
second and most important.
120 is alot of buses to be taking out of the dublin area. more and more people are loosing their jobs everyday,more and more people are loosing their source of getting around i.e. their cars and whatever other means they have. and yet this shower want to deprive you of the cheapest and in some cases the only means of getting around. again no thanks.

oh by the way this is the start of major changes to come if these cost cutting plans are introduced, dont forget the government is also taking away €11m from C.I.E. of that i dont know how much is from dublin bus but i'm sure cleo would be able to enlighten us as shes very well up in things.in fact as i'm typing this and reading it's coming across as a privates gold mine, this is exactly the type of thing the privates would be screaming to get their hands on.

the way new timetables are supposed to be done is as follows.
(A)a copy given to both unions.
(B)unions gives copies to drivers
(C)drivers report back to unions in writing
(D)unions meet management with the problems
(E)management sort out problems within reason and give new copy to unions
(F)unions give copies to drivers who then vote to accept or reject new schedule.
(G)then within a matter of weeks new shcedules if accepted are introduced.
in most cases from start to finish it takes 2-3 months.
none of the above was ever done for this round of changes.
bringing out these new schedules is complete and utter suicide.

in most garages you have between 3-4 managers in each garage just looking after drivers. now if thats not a waste of money i dont know what is.
by the way cleo you still haven't told us whether your head office or garage.

dub_commuter

To further my original post, the person in Harristown that was phoned (I'm not going to name them as I know management read this board...) did say that in relation to the changes that are about to happen, and in reference to the 40D that has been mentioned a few times in the past, there will be "Major Changes" to this route which in their opinion did not warrant such changes,

Overall he said that areas are being cut that should not be, and also areas are not being cut that they feel there should be cut and that nobody in Harristown was behind such route cuts where they will cause issues for their customers.

It is getting very clear to me that there is now a clear division between HQ and garages, and perhaps even local management. This cannot be good for the bus company as a whole. The local management have much better knowledge than the central management.

spoonface

>I just called Dublin Bus in relation to new timetables, and they said that they will be released on Sunday morning, and will be active that day. they told me that if I had any questions I should contact the garage when they come out, obviously they will leave the garages out to dry in the safe knowledge that head office is closed to avoid taking the flack themselves.

I've heard it's not gonna happen for another 2 weeks yet.

liger

meanmachine3 wrote: »

dont forget the government is also taking away €11m from C.I.E. of that i dont know how much is from dublin bus but i'm sure cleo would be able to enlighten us as shes very well up in things.i

Add to that €9million of a fine for cutting across the private company in lucan. Plus €1million for a corporate box in the new lansdowne rd and you see that of the 31mil losses this year around 70% of that is actually management and government caused.

I think its a cop out by dublin bus to force in changes on the back of the recession just like a load of other companies are doing.


for the record i'm a driver.