Does anyone not like Tool?

Ostrom

I like tool in theory

All the pieces are in the right place, excellent bass, fantastic drummer, great singer but....

The production grates on me every time - every tool track I have heard sounds completely predictable and sterile. They end up sounding like Muse (with that one pacing of danger/panic/crap), only in a far more rigid way.

Their negatives are compounded by the pretension of most of their 'hardcore' fans - the implication that the above are rendered moot by the fact that the listener 'doesnt get it' or 'hasnt appreciated in the right way', which unfortunately, when pushed, usually comes down to some technical merit I cant relate to (such as timing).

Which is a shame, because in isolation, the parts are obviously brilliant, it just doesnt fit for me on any level.

Patricide

nij wrote: »

Exactly. Like the sound of a dishwasher in the background.



Well, everyone has an opinion.

I think they are talentless for the aforementioned 'dishwasher' reason, the fact that their lyrics and painfully unimaginative and whiny, and the fact that it's hard to tell one song from the next.

You know, I seem to recall and interview with Maynard where he said something like, "Most of the other bands from when we started out have disappeared and have failed to last." He went on to list a few bands. I hate people who try and big themselves up by bitching about OTHER bands.

This is what I say to him: Just because Tool hasn't f*cked off yet, it doesn't mean they have some great 'lasting power' and that you are better than those mentioned. (One of which was Nirvana - newsflash - Nirvana didn't split up or 'fail to last'. Cobain DIED. Idiot.

Well technically hes still a good musician. Im not saying your opinion doesnt matter, you can chose not to like his singing style, you can chose to hate his voice. But what you cant chose to do is say that himself and all the musicians in tool are terrible musicians.

Like me personally, i cant stand a load of rap music, i dont go claiming they dont have tallent i state the fact that it isnt my thing. It pushes no buttons for me personally but they obviously have some rapping tallent that i dont have so im not gonna go wailing on em for that.

SirLemonhead

Don't be silly, there's no talent in rap :pac:

geuro

good musicians. pop philosophy pants.

IronMan

Not a fan of Tool to be honest. Cold, sterile, slightly pretentious arty muck. I have seen them live twice, and been bored silly each time. But each to their own.

nacho libre

IronMan wrote: »

Not a fan of Tool to be honest. Cold, sterile, slightly pretentious arty muck. I have seen them live twice, and been bored silly each time. But each to their own.

Snap.

Spunge

lord lucan wrote: »

not my cup of tea tbph,was bored senseless by them at ozzfest in 2002.

I just got into them before going to that concert, and had listened to lateralus a few times. Loved that gig, was crazy into them afterwards.

nij

A lot of people seem to say that they although they make bad music, they are good musicians. Sorry folks, but I thought "good musicians" were people who made good music.

Playing an instrument with a level of relative competence, in time with other people, does NOT, IMO, equate to being a good musician. Anyone can do that after a certain amount of practise.

Ostrom

nij wrote: »

A lot of people seem to say that they although they make bad music, they are good musicians. Sorry folks, but I thought "good musicians" were people who made good music.

Playing an instrument with a level of relative competence, in time with other people, does NOT, IMO, equate to being a good musician. Anyone can do that after a certain amount of practise.

Absolutely it doesnt, which is exactly the problem I seem to encounter with many tool fans.

There seems to something significant in the connection between timing/meaning/performance/arrangement that sets them apart, which is complete nonsense.

It is impossible to argue with a tool fan on the basis of subjective taste because they always seems to have some technical merit to fall back on

jim o doom

I've listened to a good bit of their stuff, and I like a few songs but I'm not really pushed on them myself. And I think Keenan is an utterly pretentious twát.

Davei141

nij wrote: »

A lot of people seem to say that they although they make bad music, they are good musicians. Sorry folks, but I thought "good musicians" were people who made good music.

LOL. *obligatory good music is a matter of opinion post*

Some of the post's are ridiculous. You dont like tool? Congratulations im happy for you. Some of the reason's are laughable though, just say you don't like their music and be done with it.

"maynard is a twat" Yeah he is, hardly relevant to the music they put out.
"Pretentious tool fans" Once again.
"Danny carey aint got **** on neil pert" Pointless.
"Cold and sterile" Brilliant.

When you actually read all the criticism's beyond "I just don't like the music" it's pretty much a load of meaningless waffle. Cold and Sterile. slightly pretentious arty muck. pop philosophy pants. I like tool in theory. Dishwater music. Elevator music.

Even the bloke efla going on about pretension, jesus mate read over your post's for an overdose.

That's a whole lot of nothing.

Patricide hit the nail on the head.

nyarlothothep

efla wrote: »

Absolutely it doesnt, which is exactly the problem I seem to encounter with many tool fans.

There seems to something significant in the connection between timing/meaning/performance/arrangement that sets them apart, which is complete nonsense.

It is impossible to argue with a tool fan on the basis of subjective taste because they always seems to have some technical merit to fall back on

I'd qualify that in saying that Tool are good performers but for me not as creative musicians. You can have brilliant musicians who are performers but crap musicians as songwriters and vice versa. Some of the criticisms are funny, some I'm in agreement with, cold and sterile/elevator music I can identify with.

jim o doom

Davei141 wrote: »

"maynard is a twát" Yeah he is, hardly relevant to the music they put out.
"Pretentious tool fans" Once again.

well I for one tend to dislike at least in essence a lot of stuff a band does if the members a patently douche bags. Loved Metallica. they turned into a massive back of cócks. after this I no longer digged them, this compounded by their progressively turning out crapper and crapper tunes = I can't listen to anything after black & feel guilty whilst listening to the old stuff.

It's not relevant to the music but I don't really like the music regardless of the twát fronting the band. and when you don't like something - theres nothing wrong with taking a sly dig at it - especially when it annoys someone; like a pretentious tool fan for instance! - but that's because I'm just a petty fecker

damonjewel

Davei141 wrote: »

. You dont like tool? Congratulations im happy for you.

Equally if you like Tool? Then I'm ecstatic for you :pac:

The guys are just giving their opinion nothing wrong with that I think, The OP I believe was looking for reasons why Tool are deemed to be so great.

Personally I think they are a good band with good tunes and a good sound, but not brilliant and certainly not progressive rock. I think some of the quieter shorter passages are really good e.g. Eon, Mantra on lateralus and maybe they should expand on that, rather than the longer metal sludge riffs tracks that get very samey as you progress through the album. Why do you like them?

phatkev

wats up with all the people hating tool

• great songs
• great lyrics
• great production
• great live shows
• great band

wat more do u need:D

jim o doom

phatkev wrote: »

wats up with all the people hating tool

• great songs
• great lyrics
• great production
• great live shows
• great band

wat more do u need:D

like all the stuff you said there - that's stuff about them you like! I find the music, in some of the songs to be pretty good & he is a pretty good vocalist.. BUT I just don't like it anyways :P can't help how ya feel about it

Ostrom

Davei141 wrote: »

Even the bloke efla going on about pretension, jesus mate read over your post's for an overdose

No need for that, we're just debating.

Davei141

jim o doom wrote: »

well I for one tend to dislike at least in essence a lot of stuff a band does if the members a patently douche bags. Loved Metallica. they turned into a massive back of cócks. after this I no longer digged them, this compounded by their progressively turning out crapper and crapper tunes = I can't listen to anything after black & feel guilty whilst listening to the old stuff.

They were always a bag of cocks though. Didn't bother people when they were releasing good albums. It's easy to use that as a criticism when it all turns to shit though, like you have with metallica.

It's not relevant to the music but I don't really like the music regardless of the twát fronting the band. and when you don't like something - theres nothing wrong with taking a sly dig at it - especially when it annoys someone; like a pretentious tool fan for instance! - but that's because I'm just a petty fecker

Ain't you the clever one jim. At least you can admit 90% of the bullshit above is meaningless petty shit though. Mad props.

Equally if you like Tool? Then I'm ecstatic for you

Appreciated boss.

Patricide

nij wrote: »

A lot of people seem to say that they although they make bad music, they are good musicians. Sorry folks, but I thought "good musicians" were people who made good music.

Playing an instrument with a level of relative competence, in time with other people, does NOT, IMO, equate to being a good musician. Anyone can do that after a certain amount of practise.

Good musician = person who can play there instrument well.

Good songwriter = person who can write good music and songs

Good overall musician = Both.

Now you can call tool terrible song writers, you can say there music sucks but like i said you cannot call them bad musicians. From a technical standpoint there all pretty damm good.

nij

Patricide wrote: »

Good musician = person who can play there instrument well.

Good songwriter = person who can write good music and songs

Good overall musician = Both.

Now you can call tool terrible song writers, you can say there music sucks but like i said you cannot call them bad musicians. From a technical standpoint there all pretty damm good.

Well, if a band's music sucks, I think that's symptomatic of them being bad musicians. It doesn't even sound like they write their songs. It sounds like they hit record and lay down to first random noodle the comes out, and they stick with it. If the are GOOD musicians, then the only explanation can be that they are lazy and don't give a damn because they know a certain demographic will buy it anyway. It's a bit like modern art, and the whole "red square on a canvas" thing. It's easy, it's lazy, it takes no skill, but it sells.

(IMHO)

Patricide

nij wrote: »

Well, if a band's music sucks, I think that's symptomatic of them being bad musicians. It doesn't even sound like they write their songs. It sounds like they hit record and lay down to first random noodle the comes out, and they stick with it. If the are GOOD musicians, then the only explanation can be that they are lazy and don't give a damn because they know a certain demographic will buy it anyway. It's a bit like modern art, and the whole "red square on a canvas" thing. It's easy, it's lazy, it takes no skill, but it sells.

(IMHO)

That is probrably the most ignorant statement I have ever heard in my life. You calling tool bad musicians based on your distaste for them is the same as those people who call Rock and Metal nothing but "noise" because they dont like that style of music.

Its also similar to people calling death metal musicians rubbish cause there playing so fast and loud. Lets see em try to play frantic disembowlment by cannable corpse, the song is incredibly technically difficult on all instruments and requires a lot of ability to play.

So to reiterate my point. If you dont like there music, say you think there music is crap. That is YOUR OPINION, noone can take it away from you or ever tell you that your wrong, different strokes for different folks like. But calling them bad musicians based on the fact that you dont like there music is just plain ignorance.

nij

Patricide wrote: »

That is probrably the most ignorant statement I have ever heard in my life. You calling tool bad musicians based on your distaste for them is the same as those people who call Rock and Metal nothing but "noise" because they dont like that style of music.

Its also similar to people calling death metal musicians rubbish cause there playing so fast and loud. Lets see em try to play frantic disembowlment by cannable corpse, the song is incredibly technically difficult on all instruments and requires a lot of ability to play.

So to reiterate my point. If you dont like there music, say you think there music is crap. That is YOUR OPINION, noone can take it away from you or ever tell you that your wrong, different strokes for different folks like. But calling them bad musicians based on the fact that you dont like there music is just plain ignorance.

Yeah we can keep calling each other ignorant all day long if we like. Am I also ignorant for saying N-Sync make bad music? Or is it just "different strokes" again? If everything has to be dismissed as subjective taste, then what's the point of having ANY debate?

I happen to think Tool's songs have little in the way of structure. It's enough to put anyone to sleep. I've heard lots of their songs, and most of them sound exactly the same. But like I said, and like YOU said, it's my opinion.

But my point, a few posts ago, was not about my own opinion. It was about people saying that THEY dislike their music, but they defend Tool's technical skill. In other words, why say, "their music bores me to tears...but they are good musicians"? It's like saying that they play crap music really well. Or they are extremely good at failing. It's a viewpoint expressed by others in this thread that I don't understand.

I have to say I don't know how you can compare garbage like Tool to the genius of Cannibal Corpse.

Patricide

No you wouldnt be ignorant making the nsync statement. Youd just be telling me you dont like there music. Your not making n argument on there musicmanship which is what your doing to tool with obviously no idea of there ability on there instrumens.

Davei141

nij wrote: »

Yeah we can keep calling each other ignorant all day long if we like. Am I also ignorant for saying N-Sync make bad music? Or is it just "different strokes" again? If everything has to be dismissed as subjective taste, then what's the point of having ANY debate?

I happen to think Tool's songs have little in the way of structure. It's enough to put anyone to sleep. I've heard lots of their songs, and most of them sound exactly the same. But like I said, and like YOU said, it's my opinion.

But my point, a few posts ago, was not about my own opinion. It was about people saying that THEY dislike their music, but they defend Tool's technical skill. In other words, why say, "their music bores me to tears...but they are good musicians"? It's like saying that they play crap music really well. Or they are extremely good at failing. It's a viewpoint expressed by others in this thread that I don't understand.

I have to say I don't know how you can compare garbage like Tool to the genius of Cannibal Corpse.

Guess what genius? That's still YOUR opinion. When your opinion magically be come's fact, then you will make sense.

Sephiroth_dude

off topic but theres a deftones song on white pony called passanger is the singer from tool singing on that song?

ADTR

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

off topic but theres a deftones song on white pony called passanger is the singer from tool singing on that song?

Yes.

I don't like Tool.

nij

Davei141 wrote: »

Guess what genius? That's still YOUR opinion. When your opinion magically be come's fact, then you will make sense.

Amazing. You completely fail to grasp what I was talking about, despite highlighting my text in bold and no doubt reading it more than once. Aren't you the guy from the "I like moshing but I don't like watching and listening" thread? Surprise surprise. Your posts have a nasty edge of hostility about them. Grow up and talk to me like an adult.

nix

Tool are without a doubt my fav band, i have been to two of their gigs and they are by far the best live performances i have seen in terms of sound quality.

Perfectly replicating sound from album, not like most bands i see where the songs sounds more distorted or muffled and of poor quality.

And Maynards voice hitting ever note every time without fail, never struggling or sounding horse.

Now in saying that i understand some people not liking them, but i think your just being too quick to judge. When i started listening to them i wasnt blown away, first album i got was AEnima and i only liked Stinkfist, AEnima and Hooker with a penis at first. But after time i fell in love with the rest of the tracks on the album, and now hold those in more high regard than the previous mentioned (Eulogy, H, Pu****, 46 and 2 and Third eye). It was only after a few listens they grew on me, and soon after they gave us Lateralus which just blew me away as i listened to it over and over, it was in my cd player for weeks before i took it out.

I think the majority of you guys should give them another go tbh

fugazied

Tool is an astonishly good live band, probably the best progressive meta band around now.

Tool does take a few listens to get into, they have quite a few 7-10 minute songs, so it's not your standard cliched music, it has great ambitions generally.

The best progressive rock/fusion at the moment is the mars volta imo.

fcleere

i like tool.