Puggle Wanted or Maltese/Poodle cross

suraheg

Before you go mental at me for wanting a 'designer pup'... please DONT!

I'm looking for a puggle, maltese cross pup. Anyone have a clue where I can get one?

andreac

Please just read this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055481639

suraheg

Not looking for advice thanks, just someone who can help!
Am a vet nurse so i'm aware of all complication etc..

Thanks for that!

dolly13

Hey suraheg keep an eye on done deal.ie they crop up quite often.. I think I say a poodle / maltese cross up their recently. Make sure you select all dogs as sometimes they are advertised in different categories..

Good Luck!

andreac

Can i ask why you want a cross? would you not be best to go to a pound/shelter to get one of these crosses?

I really hope you wouldnt pay money for a cross like this as you are just fuelling puppy farmers with these designer breeds, who are making money from giving cross breeds, cool names to make them sell better and sound nicer.

If you are vet nurse then you should be aware of the amount of crosses in rescue and health problems and so on, so i really urge you not to actively go looking for a so-called breeder and buy of one of these crosses.

dolly13

andreac wrote: »

Can i ask why you want a cross? would you not be best to go to a pound/shelter to get one of these crosses?

I really hope you wouldnt pay money for a cross like this as you are just fuelling puppy farmers with these designer breeds, who are making money from giving cross breeds, cool names to make them sell better and sound nicer.

If you are vet nurse then you should be aware of the amount of crosses in rescue and health problems and so on, so i really urge you not to actively go looking for a so-called breeder and buy of one of these crosses.

Suraheg wasn't asking people for their opinion on cross breeds. There are genuine people out there who breed these dogs they are not all puppy farmers. Cross bred dogs do have health problems however, highly bred pure breed dogs tend to have more...

andreac

Sorry, but anyone who cross breeds pedigree dogs purposely, and gives them a fancy name ARE NOT DECENT BREEDERS!! they are only looking to make a quick buck, ie puppy farmer, not breeding for the good of the breed.

Any decent breeder will breed for health and not to make money, most decent breeders will tell you they barely break even if the mating and breeding is done right.

End of!

dolly13

andreac wrote: »

Sorry, but anyone who cross breeds pedigree dogs purposely, and gives them a fancy name ARE NOT DECENT BREEDERS!! they are only looking to make a quick buck, ie puppy farmer, not breeding for the good of the breed.

Any decent breeder will breed for health and not to make money, most decent breeders will tell you they barely break even if the mating and breeding is done right.

Did I say they were decent breeders Andrea??? No, I didn't - I would agree with your definition of decent breeders.. My point is there are some people out there who have cross bred puppies who are not puppy farmers.. and again I'm sure you will agree cross bred dogs tend to have less health problems than pure breds...

And again.. this thread wasn't started to ask people's opinions on cross breed dogs.

andreac

Yes but cross breeds also inherit the health problems of both breeds, hence twice the health problems, not less problems.

dolly13

Not necessarily perhaps you should post a seperate thread on this topic as it doesnt really have anything to do with the original thread

suraheg

If I'm going to invest MOST of my time in a pet, I would want to actually pick a pet that is suitable with my life. the reason I'm not going to a pound is because most pets there are big dogs, or generally bigger dogs (than pugs or maltese) and i dont have the space/time for a bigger dog hence me looking for a smaller one. And yes i know there are smaller dogs in pounds, mostly jack russells which i havent had the best experiences with.. i have been checking pounds as well as looking for crosses of the dogs i would like to own.

So thank you for your opinion andrea but its really not needed here.
I would never ever buy from a puppy farm, only a reputable breeder/family etc. I would insist on going to see their home etc and their parents..

Go post your opinion elsewhere thanks.

If anyone can help me, let me know. Thanks

dolly13

Hi

Here are some links to donedeal that might have some that will interest you!

http://www.donedeal.ie/find/dogs/for-sale/Ireland/Maltese


http://www.donedeal.ie/find/dogs/for-sale/Ireland/Poodles

There are some real cuties under both

Good Luck!

cloudy day

well handled.

it's not good enouhg to retaliate with opinions without any knowledge.
they are not designer dogs, but F1 hybrids. first crosses of two breeds. this is actually a better thing as far as the actual dogs are concerned. it's known to break the disease / heriditary problems.

what's wrong with that. the original pug looks nothing like the one we see today and it's no secret about the health problems plaguing dog breeds today. KC reg doesn't really stand for much. I've seen a lot of KC reg dogs over the years which have been very poor examples of the breed.

genuine breeders have genuine standards.

not every one is a puppy farmer or a bad breeder. and some genuine breeders have more than one breed because they love a variety of dogs. and they take proper care of all their dogs.

not everyone is a book learned animal lover, some have worked all their lives with a variety of animals and have a lot of experience in animal husbandry.

andreac

Genuine breeders will not intentionally cross 2 breeds and give them a so called name ie Puggle etc.

Why not just go for either a maltese or a pug? at least then you are going to a reputable breeder who breeds either of the breed and is doing so for the good and health of the breed who will health test for relevent problems that can arise in your chosen breed.

Paying big money or any money for a cross breed is madness when there are cross breeds in the pounds for free.

These cross breeds can never be registered with the kennel club as they are not a pedigree dog. I would just advise if you are interested in one or both of these breeds to at least get a full pedigree one and at least you will know what you are getting then, but its up to you what you chose to do at the end of the day.

If you contact the IKC there are clubs for both of these breeds and will put you in contact with secretaries of these clubs and will know good breeders with litters coming up or that are due.

andreac

Can i suggest checking out this forum.

www.irishdogs.ie/forum

Theres a section for people looking for dogs and if you post what you are looking for, even the cross, there are people based all over ireland who are in the pounds etc every week and would see a lot of dogs coming in for rescue, big and small.

andreac

cloudy day wrote: »

well handled.

it's not good enouhg to retaliate with opinions without any knowledge.
they are not designer dogs, but F1 hybrids. first crosses of two breeds. this is actually a better thing as far as the actual dogs are concerned. it's known to break the disease / heriditary problems.

what's wrong with that. QUOTE]

Nothing wrong with crossing breeds at all, but its the people that cross them and try pass them off as these new so called breeds just to make money from is my only problem, thats all. Its horrible seeing people being ripped off by these people and thats the point im trying to get across.

cloudy day

It's okay to have a personal opinion about a subject but it's not really a good thing to try and force one's own thoughts on others. Freedom of choice is the thing here.

Is breeding a pug -known to be suceptible to a multitude of hereditary health problems, because of the way they are designed, as a pure bred dog - really better than crossing the breed with another breed to get a cute looking healthy dog with a lot of the pug features, but which is unlikely to have breathing problems, hip problems and spinal problems and hind leg deformities. As well as the fact some of them have to have c-sections. Now I love Pug's, adore them.

Have you done your research. Have you any hands on experience of breeding pugs, or any of the breeds. Even boxer's have been pllagued with health problems, hip eye and heart. Labradors the same, Cavaliers, Shi-tzu's, Alsations. to name but a few, there are so many.

what you don't hear about are the deformities of the pups at birth of some of these breeds, pups which suffer and have to be destroyed. or which live, then when they go to their new owners, get very sick and cost the new owner a fortune in vet bills and heartache. Because a lot of these hereditary factors do not surface until later on.

So knowing all the info, as a buyer, should someone spend up to € 1,000 for a pug or € 500 for a hybrid. Or € 1,000 for a maltese or € 1,000 for a siberian husky. which is the madder price.


Plus take into account unless your very good friends with someone who breeds them, you cannot say who is a good breeder.

People who breed dogs make money. some only care about money and have no morals. some care about their dogs and are genuine, which is why they don't drop the prices of the pups as it costs too much to produce them. It's a lucky dip, how can you tell them apart.

Did you see the BBC documentary Pedigree dogs under fire. If not I suggest you do some research.

KC reg dogs with KNOWN hereditary problems, that means they get passed on with breeding. Being used as stud dogs and winning shows.
In breeding. etc. That is why crufts lost so much of their sponsorship this year, that is why the BBC wouldn't televise it. the RSPCA is appalled.

The KC make money from registering dogs. Serious amounts of money.

So who then are the genuine breeders. If your handing € 1,000 to a breeder they are going to be so sweet and nice you will think they are the bestest, till something goes wrong.

Labradoodles provide a great service as dogs for disabled, good temperaments, intelligent, but the hair gene from the poodle makes them good for people with allergies.

The resaon for the combined name puggle, pugalier, labradoodle, is to inform people they are an F1 cross, it's a form of identity, so they know what they are getting.

Crossbreeds are mongrels, a mixed bag of genetics and you've no idea how they are going to turn out or what their temperament will be like, they could have breeding from dogs that are not suitable to have in a house with small children, they may be inherently vicious as gaurd dogs, if there is certain type of terrier blood in them they will destroy your garden digging. if there is patterdale in them they will kill every hen they see, rabbit, and cat. if they have beagle in them the will break your heart wandering.

As far as I can see there are more favourable reasons for Hybrids than there are against. and Hybrids are cheaper as a rule than pure.

There are some very nice genuine breeders that advertise on done deal, I know one woman and her dogs are house pets and always done well, with no signs of health problems in either the adults or the pups.

Isn't irish dogs a subsidary of done deal ?

The buyer has a responsibilty to do their homework when selecting a dog. that has been pointed out time and time again to people but yet they still manage to buy from the wrong people.

That is my own personal opinion based on years of research. Would I pay € 1,000 for a pug ..... yes I would.

andreac

Trust me i have done my homework and a lot of it. I own a pedigree dog and paid good money for it too, because i did my homework and made sure i went about it the right way and got a good recommended breeder and knew what i was getting. If you want to get a pedigree dog, start by contacting the IKC and doing some research and get some recommended breeders from them and talk and get to know your breeder. More often than not people are in so much of a rush to get a cute puppy, they get ripped off, buying pups off people and never get papers etc, its happening every week.

Im involved in dog showing and know a lot of breeders in all diff breeds and if someone was to ask me to recommend a breeder i know i would be able to point them in the right direction.

I did see the bbc documentary and theres always 2 sides to stories. Of course there are breeders breeding dogs that arent healthy and hip scored etc, and its totally wrong and i 100% disagree with breeding un healthy dogs but this is where the kennel club need to be more strict on breeders. But this is how the puppy farmers are getting away with it.

I own a breed that suffers from hip dysplacia, and my dog is nearly a champion, if i ever want to use him for stud i wanted to ensure he has a good hip score, so got him done and he got a good score. Now this doesnt mean im going to rush into using him for stud. If or when i ever use him, i would ensure the bitch is hip scored too with a low score.

I never said there is anything wrong with cross breeding, you arent getting what im trying to say.
My problem is people who are purposely cross breeding dogs and only have making cash out if it as a priority. Cross breeds, ie monrgrels, are usually tougher and yes do usually suffer less with health problems and often live a lot longer, im not disputing that fact at all. We had a family pet who was a mongrel and she lived to 16 and was hardly sick in her whole life.

There are plenty of good reliable breeders on there, again, i know a few people who advertise who are very decent people breeding fabulous dogs. Im just hoping people will do a little bit of homework before getting puppies as i hate hearing about people that get ripped off and bringing home lovely puppies only to be struck down with parvo a few days later and dying, from these puppy farmers.

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I was never trying to cause an argument here, just trying to make people aware of whats going on out there, thats all.

cloudy day

True there are always two sides to a story, but when the facts are presented and they cannot be argued against i then think the next step is accountabiliy, redress and change.

They cannot be defended for what was highlighted in that program.

Don't get me wrong i've not having a go at you as i think Healthy debate serves a good purose.

20 years ago i would of held a lot of stock on show lines i used to be a fan of showing. but now there are many i wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

Not too many months ago there was an article in a magazine about the puggle debate. Photo's from old records actually showed that the modern pug looks nothing like it predecessor, and the same can be said for a lot of the breeds.

Why should we get on our moral high horse over Hybrids.

As you say you breed / show a pedigree dog / dogs and that is your choice. Some people want Hybrids and that is their choice.

The KC breeders make money too, lets not forget that. There are some of them that have 20 dogs.
Usually when a pedigree pup is bought it gets a reg cert with it but not a generation pedigree to show if there has been any inbreeding, these certs cost extra money to provide.

Yes there are problems with puppy farmers. These have been highlighted and it's a disgrace. But that's a fact of life, it happens, we don't like it. All we can do is be careful when buying a dog.

If I was a person breeding Hybrid pups, I would take offence that It would be then insinuated that i'd then be a puppy farmer. that would be a libelous statement.

Yes people do get ripped off. But equally there are a lot of genuine people out there breeding dogs, pure and hybrid, that are doing things right and care for their dogs. And it costs just as much in time and care and money to to breed a Hybrid as it does a pedigree, except it appears hybrids are cheaper.

Are we as a people getting fed up of the animal rights, puppy farming activists shoving it down our throats at every opportunity. when it infringes on our rights to choose what we want for whatever reason and we get shouted down and makes ' breeding dogs ' a dirty word, yes i think we are.