Protesting taxi drivers: do you support them?

Cookie_Monster

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Many drivers have left said firm as business is not increasing despite the advertising and they are waiting just as long for a job and for less money so as predicted they are worse off than they were before. Cake and eat it, I think not

Well it's pretty clear then the the public think that 20% off the maximum fare is not enough.

I'm inclined to agree, why would you bother to get a taxi when they are so expensive? Every other industry out there is going through huge competition to try to get customers, are taxi's?....

murphaph

Taxipete29 wrote: »

There business gets wound up and they will get state assistance eventually. Taxi drivers would not get anything if they voluntarily wound up their business.

This is not true. Failed taximen are entitled to the same levels of benefits as any other failed businessmen. It has to do with your contributions to the PRSI sytem. You opted out of the PRSI system when you became self employed of course. This is just another risk of self employment/business. It all gets back to the same thing.....you entered a business area which you believed would make you money. You took on the risks and startup costs knowing full well it might not work and it hasn't. It's tough luck in business.

I'm in favour of better regulation for the sake of the public.

oppiuy

A couple of quid on the nite link or 22 in a taxi??

Cookie_Monster

oppiuy wrote: »

A fiver on the nite link or 30 in a taxi??

I ask myself that anytime I'm in town and funnily enough the nitelink always wins:D

Taxipete29

murphaph wrote: »

This is not true. Failed taximen are entitled to the same levels of benefits as any other failed businessmen. It has to do with your contributions to the PRSI sytem. You opted out of the PRSI system when you became self employed of course. This is just another risk of self employment/business. It all gets back to the same thing.....you entered a business area which you believed would make you money. You took on the risks and startup costs knowing full well it might not work and it hasn't. It's tough luck in business.

I'm in favour of better regulation for the sake of the public.

But F*** the drivers yes??? The public wont get a better service unless the drivers get better condition. The two go hand in hand

oppiuy

Taxipete29 wrote: »

But F*** the drivers yes??? The public wont get a better service unless the drivers get better condition. The two go hand in hand

But you still wont make any money, because your far too expensive.I remember 2002 and having to wait hours for a taxi to get home. more taxis please more

ntlbell

Taxipete29 wrote: »

No they are not an elite group, but if you know anything about statistical analysis you should know that without proper profiling the poll only indicates lack of support from posters on boards. It is not a proper public poll. This is basic statistics ffs.

The people voting are the general public it's not like the poll is on some anti taxi driver website..

boards - public website - public users = general public.

regardless the results so far are astounding

Cookie_Monster

Taxipete29 wrote: »

We'll make sure The public wont get a better service unless we drivers get better conditions.

FYP

What better condition do you want ffs? less licences has nothing to do with conditions, its just a way of removing competition, to the customer's detrement. bigger cleaner cars are better conditions. Ensuring no-one works over the legally allowed number of hours are better conditions.

Taxipete29

seamus wrote: »

No it doesn't. But you're running a business. And if you can't get a good turnover, you pack up. I would also dispute that "no driver is making anything close" assertion because if they were earning that little they would have given up the game a long time ago.
This has been the case for a while now and believe me drivers are trying to get out

That's a matter for your business. If you need to turn a profit nearly 50% then you need to reduce your cost of sales. Some fancy accounting tricks and you could write off a whole pile of expenses as "cost of sales" - whereas Joe PAYE has to pay his insurance, motor tax, petrol, phone bills & service costs out of his net income, you get to write them all off as expenses.
You cant reduce costs in the Taxi industry, with the exception of lower insurance cost. Our accountants are tricky enough as it is

That is, let's say Joe Paye earns 20k a year. Out of that he pays his €500 insurance, €200 motor tax, €100/month petrol, €50/month phone bill and €300 vehicle service. That's €2,800 you don't have to earn as profit because it's taken out of your turnover - i.e. you only have to earn €17,200 per year profit to be in the same situation as Joe.
I paid €15 for a 5-minute taxi drive two weeks ago. I paid nearly €20 for a 15 minute drive last week. Now I'm not saying that drivers are going to have someone in their cab every minute of the day, but if a normal fare is say, 10 minutes at €10*, then you only need a 30% occupancy rate to meet your minimum profit. Which means that in a 40 hour week, you only need spend 12 of those hours with someone actually in your vehicle. And a lower occupancy rate should mean lower costs, at least in theory.
The great thing about theorys are you can use them to prove almost anything. In reality many of them fail.

What also baffles me is that some taxi drivers go on about things being very slow and awful quiet, and then on the same day in a similar part of the country, another taxi driver will tell you that he hasn't stopped all day.
Now either one of them is lying, or one of them is shrewd. I go for the latter. You should be out chasing business, not sitting at taxi ranks having a good old natter with your buddies. You don't make a successful business sitting around talking about how much money you're not earning. Because that's what you're running - a business. And good businesses chase sales, they don't wait for sales to come to them.
Its not that one is more shrewd, its usually that one has been lucky. We all have our good days, but they are vastly outweighed by the bad ones.

Driving around all day looking for fares is not practical with the cost of fuel, especially when earlier you were advocating cutting costs.

*Considering that we pay €4.10 before the taxi even moves, and assuming a rate of 40km/h, you will cover 6.7km in 10 mins. So 5.7km * €1.03/km = €5.87

These are the realities, not theorys

Taxipete29

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

FYP

What better condition do you want ffs? less licences has nothing to do with conditions, its just a way of removing competition, to the customer detrement. bigger cleaner cars are better conditions. Ensuring no-one works over the legally allowed number of hours are better conditions.

Thats not what i said. Ensuring no one has to work over the legally allowed amount of hours would be a good start.

oppiuy

"No it doesn't. But you're running a business. And if you can't get a good turnover, you pack up. I would also dispute that "no driver is making anything close" assertion because if they were earning that little they would have given up the game a long time ago.
This has been the case for a while now and believe me drivers are trying to get out"

Whats the problem then. if lots wanna get out then let them, other guys come in, work harder. the public get a better service

Cookie_Monster

Taxipete29 wrote: »

That's a matter for your business. If you need to turn a profit nearly 50% then you need to reduce your cost of sales. Some fancy accounting tricks and you could write off a whole pile of expenses as "cost of sales" - whereas Joe PAYE has to pay his insurance, motor tax, petrol, phone bills & service costs out of his net income, you get to write them all off as expenses.
You cant reduce costs in the Taxi industry, with the exception of lower insurance cost. Our accountants are tricky enough as it is

Of course you can.

1. you can invest in a more fuel efficient car.
2. you can perform services and cleaning yourself rather than paying high labour rates of garages.
3. you can drive more efficiently, saving more fuel and keep windows up, a/c off etc
4. you can track your time/ useage patterns to find areas or time where you are more likely to get more work hence earning more and spending less time driving around/idleing doing nothing.
5. you can spend less on newspapers/ coffee/ lunches / other trivial expenses etc etc

Taxipete29

oppiuy wrote: »

"No it doesn't. But you're running a business. And if you can't get a good turnover, you pack up. I would also dispute that "no driver is making anything close" assertion because if they were earning that little they would have given up the game a long time ago.
This has been the case for a while now and believe me drivers are trying to get out"

Whats the problem then. if lots wanna get out then let them, other guys come in, work harder. the public get a better service

If they find jobs they would get out, but incase you havent noticed we are in a recession and jobs are at a premium.

Nobody could possibly work harder than the crop of drivers that are out there at the moment. And how does drivers working harder equate to a better service??? Quite the opposite infact, a driver who works 12-14 hrs 7 days a week is probably driving very tired and unsafely. How is that better for the public??

paulm17781

Taxipete29 wrote: »

These are the realities, not theorys

Aye, just like the public support, the media support and how you're owed all of this. :rolleyes:

Taxipete29

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Of course you can.

1. you can invest in a more fuel efficient car.
2. you can perform services and cleaning yourself rather than paying high labour rates of garages.
3. you can drive more efficiently, saving more fuel and keep windows up, a/c off etc
4. you can track your time/ useage patterns to find areas or time where you are more likely to get more work hence earning more and spending less time driving around/idleing doing nothing.
5. you can spend less on newspapers/ coffee/ lunches / other trivial expenses etc etc

1, Yes but newer more efficent cars cost money and most banks/financial institutions are unwilling to lend to taxi drivers in the current climate.

2, I always clean my own car and do basic servicing myself already, still costs money though.

3, Windows are always up, but ac needs to be to keep windows clear when you have several people in the car.

4, I work with a localised firm and stay in the same general area in order to get work from the radio, if im not ranked I cant get work form the radio.

5, Bring my own lunch everyday, and I use the internet for my news. I usually use my downtime for study if Im not having a chat with some of the other drivers.

Cookie_Monster

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Nobody could possibly work harder than the crop of drivers that are out there at the moment.

ROLF, that the funniest thing I've read all day.:D:D

Taxipete29

oppiuy wrote: »

But you still wont make any money, because your far too expensive.I remember 2002 and having to wait hours for a taxi to get home. more taxis please more

2002= past 2009=present.

Taxipete29

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ROLF, that the funniest thing I've read all day.:D:D

So you think current drivers could work longer hours which is really the only way you could work harder in this industry?????

ntlbell

Taxipete29 wrote: »

I usually use my downtime for study if Im not having a chat with some of the other drivers.

I hope it's not economics you're studying.

Taxipete29

paulm17781 wrote: »

Aye, just like the public support, the media support and how you're owed all of this. :rolleyes:

Your trying to drag this into a slanging match. Point to where I said IM OWED A LIVING?????

Cookie_Monster

Taxipete29 wrote: »

So you think current drivers could work longer hours which is really the only way you could work harder in this industry?????

I think it's more about working smarter than harder at the moment.

The smartest will see it's a dying industry and move on to wherever they can.

Capt'n Midnight

I heard an ad on the radio that said you could make €1,000 a week as a driving instructor, mar dheá.

How many taxi drivers would consider that ?

Taxipete29

ntlbell wrote: »

I hope it's not economics you're studying.

I understand the concepts of economics, but by its nature its not an exact science and there will always be exceptions to any basic economic theory, is it so hard to believe that the taxi industry might be one of them????

Taxipete29

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I heard an ad on the radio that said you could make €1,000 a week as a driving instructor, mar dheá.

How many taxi drivers would consider that ?

Personally I wouldnt because I dont feel I would have the patience to be any sort of teacher.

Cue all the smart answers now about the roads are bad enough without letting taxi drivers teach people to drive. SOOOO predictable

Taxipete29

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I think it's more about working smarter than harder at the moment.

The smartest will see it's a dying industry and move on to wherever they can.

We do and we are trying believe me

lostexpectation

to vague a question i think people are treating it as, do you support them unconditionally which most don't.

ntlbell

Taxipete29 wrote: »

So you think current drivers could work longer hours which is really the only way you could work harder in this industry?????

#

Sitting down, talking it's a real physical battle...

Taxipete29

ntlbell wrote: »

#

Sitting down, talking it's a real physical battle...

You wouldnt be able to do my job for one week and come back and say its not tiring. If your not going to be constructive, just dont bother. Being a smart ass never suits anyone

Cookie_Monster

Taxipete29 wrote: »

You wouldnt be able to do my job for one week and come back and say its not tiring. If your not going to be constructive, just dont bother. Being a smart ass never suits anyone

+1 I reckon I'd totally lose it if I had to sit in Dublin traffic all day dealing with the amount of 'tards who simply can't drive and make stupid mistakes.

Currently I have to drive into town one day a week at rush hour and it wrecks my head, the sheer voloume of incapable idiots:mad:

ntlbell

Taxipete29 wrote: »

You wouldnt be able to do my job for one week and come back and say its not tiring. If your not going to be constructive, just dont bother. Being a smart ass never suits anyone

Don't make silly assumptions.

I drove a bike for sometimes 15 hours a day in dublin traffic in the lashings of rain etc.

It can be mentally draining because of the standard of driving in this country but to say sitting in a car is what you regard as hard work just proves you have never done a real days work in your life.

Stonypockets

I don't support the taxi drivers. They provide a service. When business was good they cleaned up. I can empathise with why they want a cap on the number of taxis in the country. But industries with a limited numbers result in reduced competition, prices sky-rocket, access to service becomes near-on impossible and so on and so forth. Times are hard now, but as we all know taxi drivers are not the only group being affected by the recession.

Spook_ie

Jip wrote: »

Hang on, the penny has just dropped on what the real problem is, it's the regulator !!!

How silly of us to think there's any sort of personal responsibility, just like everywhere else in the real world, in the taxi industry.
Good point, where would we be without the brickie, plumber, programmer, receptionist etc regulators. The world would be in chaos !

Isn't it, I thought we were as a world in an economic meltdown, because in Ireland it seems that the financial regulator ( like the taxi regulator ) wasn't doing the job

Spook_ie

paulm17781 wrote: »

Yapiddy yappiddy yap yap.

The public do not support you, keep living in dream land. The media don't either, like I said. Perhaps it's time for a new tactic, one that doesn't annoy you're whole customer base. That'd probably be more work than striking though wouldn't it? Bless.

Interesting question that no ones put yet................


Do we actualy need the publics support, I personaly don't think we do, the only support I need, is the conviction ( which I have ) that we are trying to achieve is in the best interests of Me, My Family, My Customers, My Profession if you don't see it that way then I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.........

and before anybody complains ( as I'm sure you will anyway ) they are no particular order

ntlbell

Spook_ie wrote: »

Interesting question that no ones put yet................


Do we actualy need the publics support, I personaly don't think we do, the only support I need, is the conviction ( which I have ) that we are trying to achieve is in the best interests of Me, My Family, My Customers, My Profession if you don't see it that way then I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.........

and before anybody complains ( as I'm sure you will anyway ) they are no particular order

can you explain how bringing dublin city to a stand still will help in the above?

godtabh

Spook_ie wrote: »

Interesting question that no ones put yet................


Do we actualy need the publics support, I personaly don't think we do, the only support I need, is the conviction ( which I have ) that we are trying to achieve is in the best interests of Me, My Family, My Customers, My Profession if you don't see it that way then I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.........

and before anybody complains ( as I'm sure you will anyway ) they are no particular order

Its hardly in the best interest to your customer. Just your best interest

Taxipete29

ntlbell wrote: »

Don't make silly assumptions.

I drove a bike for sometimes 15 hours a day in dublin traffic in the lashings of rain etc.

It can be mentally draining because of the standard of driving in this country but to say sitting in a car is what you regard as hard work just proves you have never done a real days work in your life.

Now whos making assumptions, I have worked in really tough and stressfull jobs so dont ever say I have not done a hard days work.

Mezcita

Spook_ie wrote: »

Interesting question that no ones put yet................


Do we actualy need the publics support, I personaly don't think we do, the only support I need, is the conviction ( which I have ) that we are trying to achieve is in the best interests of Me, My Family, My Customers, My Profession if you don't see it that way then I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.........

and before anybody complains ( as I'm sure you will anyway ) they are no particular order

It is this aspect of the current Taxi situation which interests me the most. I can't think of any other self-employed group of people who are willing to ignore the reaction to their own customers so blatantly. By behaving in a way which disrupts their own paying customer's daily lives but not really appearing bothered, the drivers are doing themselves no favours in the general public's eyes.

The customer is King, regardless of which industry you work in. Pi.ss them off and you are clutching at straws in the long run.

caff

I don't support the cap on licences but would support other barriers to entery such as standard cars, akin to london black cabs.
I work shift in work and they cover the cost of my taxis at night so probably get taxis more than most people who have posted here ( granted I dont have to pay for them )
Big issue I have is the massive differences between prices on the meter in a taxi and then the cost of the same journey with a hackney. Hackney will always work out cheaper in my experience. Dont understand how they seem to make a living out of it on their prices but the taxi fare is much higher?

Spook_ie

oppiuy wrote: »

The laws a of good business sense apply to the taxi sector as well.

I think i could make a go of this taxi business, where does one get a licence

You're more than welcome to try ( as at the moment there's no restrictions on plates ) and when you've finished your search for this philosphers stone , do report back..... I won't be holding my breath though

Spook_ie

murphaph wrote: »

This is not true. Failed taximen are entitled to the same levels of benefits as any other failed businessmen. It has to do with your contributions to the PRSI sytem. You opted out of the PRSI system when you became self employed of course. This is just another risk of self employment/business. It all gets back to the same thing.....you entered a business area which you believed would make you money. You took on the risks and startup costs knowing full well it might not work and it hasn't. It's tough luck in business.

I'm in favour of better regulation for the sake of the public.

Odd that, I wonder why whenever I do my tax returns on ROS it adds a PRSI levy and now you tell me taxidrivers opted out of it.......must ask them for a refund on it then. As they say there is ignorance and then there is lack of knowledge I wonder what catagory the majority fit..

Spook_ie

ntlbell wrote: »

can you explain how bringing dublin city to a stand still will help in the above?

kearnsr wrote: »

Its hardly in the best interest to your customer. Just your best interest

Mezcita wrote: »

It is this aspect of the current Taxi situation which interests me the most. I can't think of any other self-employed group of people who are willing to ignore the reaction to their own customers so blatantly. By behaving in a way which disrupts their own paying customer's daily lives but not really appearing bothered, the drivers are doing themselves no favours in the general public's eyes.

The customer is King, regardless of which industry you work in. Pi.ss them off and you are clutching at straws in the long run.

Interesting to see the lack of reaction from this thread to a deliberately provocative post, now here's a take on it so far....please feel free to comment..


The industry is in such turmoil at the moment that personaly I don't care if we have public support for the protests or not, because your perception of why these protests are on going is ill informed ( as I've said before you're hearing us but you're not listening ) because at the end of the day I have nothing to lose, as it is all but gone already.

Desperate affairs require desperate remedies. Horatio Nelson

jimmycrackcorm

No for me but I've a certain amount of sympathy for taxi drivers as I reckon they are trying to make a living like the rest of us and it's getting harder. However the only answer is the that the fittest survive, and that means conditions like the quality of the car, training and knowledge and the licence fee being too cheap.

While the industry should be dictated by market supply and demand, nothing is improved for the consumer by a constant flux of new drivers who don't have the necessary knowledge trying it out for a while whilst more knowledgeable drivers are having to give up. The consumer isn't winning anything here. We might not have to walk for miles on a Saturday night to pick up an incoming taxi now but that's about it.

Taxipete29

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

No for me but I've a certain amount of sympathy for taxi drivers as I reckon they are trying to make a living like the rest of us and it's getting harder. However the only answer is the that the fittest survive, and that means conditions like the quality of the car, training and knowledge and the licence fee being too cheap.

While the industry should be dictated by market supply and demand, nothing is improved for the consumer by a constant flux of new drivers who don't have the necessary knowledge trying it out for a while whilst more knowledgeable drivers are having to give up. The consumer isn't winning anything here. We might not have to walk for miles on a Saturday night to pick up an incoming taxi now but that's about it.

Very good post. Good to see that someone can see the negative aspects of the situation from the consumers point of view.

paulm17781

Spook_ie wrote: »

The industry is in such turmoil at the moment that personaly I don't care if we have public support for the protests or not, because your perception of why these protests are on going is ill informed ( as I've said before you're hearing us but you're not listening ) because at the end of the day I have nothing to lose, as it is all but gone already.

And yet, while we're "ill informed", taxi drivers make no effort to appeal to the public. Keep up the good work. :rolleyes:

3 times since Wednesday, I have gotten a bus when a taxi would have been faaaar quicker. I hope more people stop using taxis because of these protests.

paulm17781

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

While the industry should be dictated by market supply and demand, nothing is improved for the consumer by a constant flux of new drivers who don't have the necessary knowledge trying it out for a while whilst more knowledgeable drivers are having to give up. The consumer isn't winning anything here. We might not have to walk for miles on a Saturday night to pick up an incoming taxi now but that's about it.

That's why a test, uniform and better standards should be introduced. I'm all for this rather Liverpool stickers. The thing is, there's no need for a cap. Just bring in a knowledge test that ALL drivers must do, perhaps repeat every 5 years.

anladmór

will1977 wrote: »

Whats the story with a lot of them now having signs on their car saying " Irish Driver "

my dad told me about this(taxi driver himself) cool when i see this i can go about avoiding them like the plague.

scorpioishere

To be honest i dnt really support the taxi drivers protesting.
I had quite a few bad experiences with them before and some of my friends too. Their problems is new license being given to foreigners which they hate.
They like to sit in their cars and get job easily. You have to go and look for jobs, drive around etc. Also some of them, especially the irish one's, they better go and study a dublin map before going on the road. Also their union should also offered them a good customer service. About tip, they doesn't deserve it at all. I've talked to many drivers and most of them have second house in spain, france, thailand and goes on holidays 5 times a year. so where are we going? They are not poor at all and if they doesn't like the way the job is, they better quit and find something else.:mad:
Stop robbing the poor innocent people with excuses that your meter is not working. Stop charging extras when a foreign people enter your car or by going different roads to get to the destination. I know all your tricks.

scorpioishere

I can say that the one in the Uk are more professional, competent and couteous than the one's we have here:D

Spook_ie

paulm17781 wrote: »

And yet, while we're "ill informed", taxi drivers make no effort to appeal to the public. Keep up the good work. :rolleyes:

3 times since Wednesday, I have gotten a bus when a taxi would have been faaaar quicker. I hope more people stop using taxis because of these protests.

You are ill informed because you don't want to be informed, you can't educate someone who refuses to be educated, you ask questions on here and elsewhere you get given answers and you automaticly close your mind to the answers and say "Ah they just want a cap on licenses to make the licenses worth more" or similar, TBH I could educate Kathleen easier than some. You keep taking the bus, I'll keep on protesting....and educating those that want to be educated!!!!

Jip

Spook_ie wrote: »

You are ill informed because you don't want to be informed, you can't educate someone who refuses to be educated, you ask questions on here and elsewhere you get given answers and you automaticly close your mind to the answers and say "Ah they just want a cap on licenses to make the licenses worth more" or similar, TBH I could educate Kathleen easier than some. You keep taking the bus, I'll keep on protesting....and educating those that want to be educated!!!!

That's a joke coming from someone who doesn't want to take any notice of the Goodbody report as it doesn't suit your agenda.