Looking For Landscape / Garden Design

hardly work'n

We have been trying to find the right Landscape Designer / Garden Designer. We tried onlinetradesman and pick a pro without much joy. Have rung around locally but they start at €200 for a site consultation that is before they even sit down at the computer to design anything. Then the drawings are between €500-€800 plus your vat! So a €1000, for some drawings. That's before we even plant a plant. We looked at quite a few portfolios & they all looked the same with little veriation from designer to designer.

So we were thinking maybe a student would be the way to go. That brings us too. Does anyone know a student of landscape design / arctiture or garden design? It's a fairly large garden & we want something a bit different & funky so there is a lot of freedom.

Kashkai

We've a half acre of garden to landscape too and we've been trying to get a landscaper for the past 12 months but no joy. Most of the landscapers we rang never bother to show up (75% or so), and the majority of those who do actually show up are not true landscapers, i.e. they ask you what you have in mind and then price accordingly without even offering alternative ideas/suggestions - imo these guys are just pavers who'll lay your patio without taking the planting aspect into account. This is ok if you are sure of what you want but if you want someone to give you fresh ideas and draft a design that encompasses the paving, planting, water feature, lighting etc and tie it in to your house/garden's size/scale and orientation, then a true landscaper is the only way to go. I suppose its like building a house, you can either get an architect designed home (i.e. landscaper) or you can pick a plan out of a book and hand it to a builder to follow (i.e. paver).

We've only managed to actually meet one true landscaper and while we liked his ideas, he was just outside what we could afford and so we are still searching for someone who'll give us what we want while being within our budget. Remember you'll probably be looking at this paving/planting for a good few years and if you try to cut corners now, you'll be annoyed every time you look at it over the coming years while wondering what could have been. BTW, our neighbour paid €1,000 to a garden designer to draft a plan for the whole garden and then brought in a paver to do the hard landscaping only. She wants to do the planting herself.

Sonnenblumen

hardly work'n wrote: »

We have been trying to find the right Landscape Designer / Garden Designer. We tried onlinetradesman and pick a pro without much joy. Have rung around locally but they start at €200 for a site consultation that is before they even sit down at the computer to design anything. Then the drawings are between €500-€800 plus your vat! So a €1000, for some drawings. That's before we even plant a plant. We looked at quite a few portfolios & they all looked the same with little veriation from designer to designer.

So we were thinking maybe a student would be the way to go. That brings us too. Does anyone know a student of landscape design / arctiture or garden design? It's a fairly large garden & we want something a bit different & funky so there is a lot of freedom.

I think your research is flawed, hence your disappointment. You should probably try google to identify better sources ie professional sites.

€ 1,000 for a garden design would in my estimates good value, but not if you don't like it. Onus on you is to do your homework, I would be very surprised to learn of anyone claiming to be a professional willing to do speculative design.

Aspirations and affordability are frequently in conflict, reducing professional levels to drive costs downs will have implications for project scope and quality of end results.

hardly work'n

I have googled & googled looked at "professional" sites. And I have done my research. Looked at portfolios, which all look very similar. I still do think €1000 is dear for just your drawings. I could understand if that included the site visit/survey & costings. One thing that I have noticed when you say you are doing the work yourself & are not looking for them to "project manage" your garden, again the price can jump!

We were thinking of a student for a couple of reasons, fresh ideas is the major one, cost is another. Plus, to give someone a chance. We have already picked out certian design ideas that we like & ones we do not like. And yes we are looking into years down the line for a garden that we can enjoy & use. But if your not happy with who designs it, then you will never be happy with it. Plus I don't want to waste my time or anyone elses on designs that I don't like.

hardly work'n

[quote=Sonnenblumen;59318957

Aspirations and affordability are frequently in conflict, reducing professional levels to drive costs downs will have implications for project scope and quality of end results.[/quote]

Aspirations & Affordability are not in conflict here. Finding a Decent landscape designer is what we are looking to do! Wether it be student or professional. All I was saying is for €1000 we were not getting value for money.

Sonnenblumen

hardly work'n wrote: »

I have googled & googled looked at "professional" sites. And I have done my research. Looked at portfolios, which all look very similar. I still do think €1000 is dear for just your drawings. I could understand if that included the site visit/survey & costings. One thing that I have noticed when you say you are doing the work yourself & are not looking for them to "project manage" your garden, again the price can jump!

We were thinking of a student for a couple of reasons, fresh ideas is the major one, cost is another. Plus, to give someone a chance. We have already picked out certian design ideas that we like & ones we do not like. And yes we are looking into years down the line for a garden that we can enjoy & use. But if your not happy with who designs it, then you will never be happy with it. Plus I don't want to waste my time or anyone elses on designs that I don't like.

You make very valid points and one in particular is an old chestnut, whereby clients are not overly happy with paying one person for the design (many garden designers do not build) but paying someone else to build and managing all the various elements therein or sometimes retaining the original designer on a retainer to provide client with a project management service. The latter approach involves the client paying more and projects potentially taking longer to complete. The design stage will most likely involve producing working drawings which is also expensive but required in order for a Third Party to implement according to plan. The extra costs which burden the client are generated in order to facilitate additional PM discussions etc.

A much more cost effective and time efficient approach would be to consult with a company which offers both design & build services and during the design stage it should be possible to determine what level of detail is required for implementation and simultaneously identify cost savings which may be better spent on implementation than producing over engineered drawings?

In your instance as you wish to do some/most of the build, I would still recommend you talk with a company who has good experience of both designing and building. You may believe that a student might offer fresh thinking (I would largely disagree) but the same student more likely has little experience and first hand knowledge of implementation. There are many testimonies around of poor design but probably more of poor execution.

An experienced designer/landscaper ensures that at least from an industry standard perspective the final design can be implemented and at the very least taht there will be no 'design' surprises/shocks during the implementation stages(s).

Finally, without knowledge of site, conditions and probable design direction, it is difficult to say whether a design fee of a € 1,000 is expensive. One could expect little below €500 +, so you might have to review your design fee expectations? Finally, I agree there is absolutely no reason why design fees should increase simply because the client is prepared to do build without any PM input. I would be very suspicious of any designers seeking extra costs from client simply because the project is 'ring fenced' for design only. Such individuals are not being professional.

More research!!

Zack21

Il be honest snice i turned 16 i've been working with the owner of model garden centre, which is also does landscaping. Over the year's while working with him he's done some really great designs on gardens. At the moment we've put together a small website with some basic information, but at the moment im hoping to put more pictures of landscaping jobs that we've done in the past. As i said thow the man that i work for has great ideas for gardens and especially gardens the suit the need of the owner.

If you want some information look at snippity, but as i said we've only got the website up and running so there's hardly any information about landscaping until i get set up and finished college for the summer

well worth a call thow and for any other queries don't hesitate to ask

The Sweeper

Zack, please be aware that self promotion and advertising are against the rules on boards.ie. You cannot promote your business through this site. Hence I've snipped the website - feel free to continue to contribute to the forum, but less of the business name-dropping please.

old boy

take a look at the b.b.c. gardening website, you can do a design on your p.c. then look at other gardening websites that offer similar services. then you can design your own, buy your plants, plant your own, its away more satisfying, a hell of a lot cheaper too. also why not visit some gardens, take their ideas home with you. the garden should be an expression of you, not some bland thing someone put togeather to take your money.

Sonnenblumen

old boy wrote: »

take a look at the b.b.c. gardening website, you can do a design on your p.c. then look at other gardening websites that offer similar services. then you can design your own, buy your plants, plant your own, its away more satisfying, a hell of a lot cheaper too. also why not visit some gardens, take their ideas home with you. the garden should be an expression of you, not some bland thing someone put togeather to take your money.

Do you need a torchlamp?

hardly work'n

old boy wrote: »

take a look at the b.b.c. gardening website, you can do a design on your p.c. then look at other gardening websites that offer similar services. then you can design your own, buy your plants, plant your own, its away more satisfying, a hell of a lot cheaper too. also why not visit some gardens, take their ideas home with you. the garden should be an expression of you, not some bland thing someone put togeather to take your money.

Had a look at that. It's good fun. Did a really rough mock up so far & called into our local garden centre & got some really great advice on different plants we could use. We have already got the outdoor kitchen layed out with string & are fiddling around with that & have started picking out plants & patterns to put them in.

Ellechim

One of the Irish gardening magazines (not the Dermot O'Neill one) has a write in and ask for a design service - where you write in with photos and state what you're looking for and they come back with a design and planting schemes.

Also, shows like Bloom have design forums where you can come with sketches/photos and they will give you advice on how good it is.....at least they did the last two years, but you had to book in advance.

Diarmuid Gavin's book on garden design is really good to.

The thing about having a funky design is that at the end of the day you want to create an extension of your house where you can sit have a glass of wine, eat breakfast/lunch/dinner/read a book, etc.

Think about a seating/dining area where it gets the morning sun, and where it gets the evening sun.

Think about structures you like: a fountain, pond, a pergola, windbreaks, maybe you want to erect a hammock or a playhouse. Perhaps a mirrored wall, a fake wall, gating, fencing, a mosaic feature, sundial.......

In terms of planting schemes, the crocus and bakker websites give you suggestions of borders for spring/summer etc....

Think about planting some trees: creating a small orchard (buy one of each of self pollinating apple and pear, etc): make sure to put in some evergreens otherwise you will have a barren landscape.

Get some good gardening books and scour them.....

Also, visit the NAtional Garden Exhibition centre - it has lots of fab gardens and will give you the ideas (they also give you a brochure with plans of all the gardens) it's in Kilquade just off the N11, http://www.gardenexhibition.ie/ - I just had a look, they have a 'meet the designers' day on 4th April......

Do you know anyone who has a 'good eye' - sometimes these people can come up with unusual ideas......

I do find it's much more fun planning and trying these ideas yourself.......

Best of luck and enjoy....

Ellechim

Moderator - I'm not affiliated to any of these things by the way! Just things I've found useful..........

monke

hi
how are you, i am currently studying landscape design and done a few gardens and the clients have been very happy. if you are still looking you can [PM me for my email address] .

old boy

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Do you need a torchlamp?

elaborate please.

old boy

hardly work'n wrote: »

Had a look at that. It's good fun. Did a really rough mock up so far & called into our local garden centre & got some really great advice on different plants we could use. We have already got the outdoor kitchen layed out with string & are fiddling around with that & have started picking out plants & patterns to put them in.

plus if you are not happy with the placement of plants you can move them in the autumn or next spring
also the markets and car boot car boot sales are usually cheaper for plants, also fetes etc always have plants not readily advailable, and the expert knowlage of the stall owner is always free,
cottage garden plants are only euro 3.50 in my neck of the woods, make a border with them they flower year after year, and fill out really well.
amazon .co.uk has many easy to read gardening books for beginers from about euro 2.00 upwards.
look up a edwardian gardener, a ms jekyll her first name escapes me.

monke

whats with the torchlamp?

Sonnenblumen

monke wrote: »

whats with the torchlamp?

You're studying landscape design and wondering 'what's with the torchlamp'?
Are you still looking?

monke

yes i am studying design,finished in july. have no idea what you are on about though?
maybe you could elaborate

aka_Ciaran

hardly work'n wrote: »

We have been trying to find the right Landscape Designer / Garden Designer. We tried onlinetradesman and pick a pro without much joy. Have rung around locally but they start at €200 for a site consultation that is before they even sit down at the computer to design anything. Then the drawings are between €500-€800 plus your vat! So a €1000, for some drawings. That's before we even plant a plant. We looked at quite a few portfolios & they all looked the same with little veriation from designer to designer.

So we were thinking maybe a student would be the way to go. That brings us too. Does anyone know a student of landscape design / arctiture or garden design? It's a fairly large garden & we want something a bit different & funky so there is a lot of freedom.

Hi OP, I'm in the same boat. Want to get the garden sorted but it seems to be costly to get a landscape gardener and then builders/pavers etc in. If you find anyone good or an alternative way of doing things I'd be interested in finding out some details....cheers

Sonnenblumen

aka_Ciaran wrote: »

Hi OP, I'm in the same boat. Want to get the garden sorted but it seems to be costly to get a landscape gardener and then builders/pavers etc in. If you find anyone good or an alternative way of doing things I'd be interested in finding out some details....cheers

A more cost effective way would be to hire a landscape designer who also provides construction services, ie a specialist deisgn & build co. At this point you'll probably have difficulty finding a suitable landscaper with any spare capacity before the summer.

Sonnenblumen

Itsmepaulo wrote: »

Try these guys, they are very helpful, and if they cant do what you want they will make sure you are sorted. They designed my garden. they do great work and it only cost me 300 euro for a 3d design. Ask for paul
www.outdoor_living.ie
regards

According to the info on that website, they are 'retailers' and no references whatsoever to landscape design.

If anyone is seeking professional garden design & construction, there is really only one site providing details of relevant professionals throughout Ireland and that is: www.alci.ie

All ALCI (Association of Landscape Contractors of Ireland) members are vetted, professional service providers, legitimate business operators with all the necessary Employer & Public Liability insurances in place (all checked annually).

There is no reason why anyone should have any problems trying to locate a professional landscaper within their local area.

We are also alci members but are not available for any new projects.

aka_Ciaran

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

There is no reason why anyone should have any problems trying to locate a professional landscaper within their local area.

We are also alci members but are not available for any new projects.

Of course there's no problem getting a professional landscaper, but you're missing the point. The gist of this thread and one I also posted in a similar vein is that professional landscapers are too expensive. What we want is someone that will do a job for a reasonable price i.e. maybe a student / trainee etc. If you look back at the first message in this thread you'll see what the OP was quoted and that all the quotes they got were too expensive.

Sonnenblumen

aka_Ciaran wrote: »

Of course there's no problem getting a professional landscaper, but you're missing the point. The gist of this thread and one I also posted in a similar vein is that professional landscapers are too expensive. What we want is someone that will do a job for a reasonable price i.e. maybe a student / trainee etc. If you look back at the first message in this thread you'll see what the OP was quoted and that all the quotes they got were too expensive.

Hold your horses there a minute, this thread was well developed on a number of points before you entered the discussion. So sorry, I am aware from the outset what the points are and there are several, including cost of design/drawings, landscaping costs, using a student for 'fresh thinking' (whatever that means) etc etc . You think 'landscaping' is expensive, well so what, landscaping is not for everyone, most people accept that professional services cost more and you would certainly expect to get more from a professional service provider. Your case is another angle, you're looking for a reasonable price, and implicit in your analysis is that professional landscapers are not reasonable! Which is a different point entirely on 'the value for money' or 'affordability. So are you looking for a 'reasonable' job but not done by a landscaper?


Finally how will you know a good job from a bad job, if your only criteria is what it might cost? Be better to just grow a lawn.

aka_Ciaran

The thread was started on one point, the OP getting quotes from various landscape designers that were too expensive, close to 1000 euro just for drawings, and I happen to agree. You stating that 'There is no reason why anyone should have any problems trying to locate a professional landscaper within their local area' is irrelevant and misses the point completely. I'm thinking a good designer should come up with a design in one full day, so a grand for a days work?? You also told the OP that his research was flawed and he needed to do more, but he has done quite a lot from what I can see.

You seem to think a student would be incapable of fresh thinking and unable to do a good job...I'm sure there are quite a few that would disagree. Students in all disciplines are usually at the forefront of their chosen field so 'fresh thinking' means exactly that...coming up with new ideas and new ways of doing things. Someone that has been in the game for a long period of time might be unwilling or unable to adapt to new techniques and ideas.

So if landscaping isn't for everyone, is it just for the rich? If it were cheaper then maybe more people would avail of it. You're right, I don't think professional landscapers are reasonable...1000 euro for some drawings is very unreasonable in my opinion, and the opinion of friends and others I have discussed the high costs of landscapers with. It's not different to 'value for money' - 1000 euro for a days work isn't value for money in my book. I'm looking for a good job done for a good price, whether that be a seasoned professional or a student starting off their career.

I think it's important to help students and those starting out on their careers, especially the way the economy is now, and in return I would hope to get a good job done for a lower cost than those expensive professionals who seem to charge huge amounts for very little.

Sonnenblumen

If you're right you'll have no problem finding a solution? A design costing €1,000.00 might appear expensive, I've no idea of the site and reqs. Do a design in 1 day, yes very possible. But are you confusing drawing time with production.?An experienced designer might define the design in a 'few hours'
but is going to charge more than the 'few hours' input. There is nothing wrong in charging for experience and ability, and to look at the clock only is wrong.

But many professionals have charge outs > € 1,000.00/day. Bob the Plaster would be €500.00+ /day, PR consultants charge € 165.00+/hour, and on and on....

Many gardens can be designed for < € 1,000.00 but looking for value in 'Mickey Mouse' sites is what I meant by a flawed approach.

You have a very narrow interpretation of what is value and relating creativity to age/lack of experience is simply silly and naieve.

That's why many gardens are so poorly, people have failed to grasp the difference between value and cost. In a way your comments remind me of dentistry, every dentist aspires to eliminate tooth decay. But you will hear people whingeing about dental costs, some vote with their feet, and are happy to bear witness with missing teeth etc, many fortunately realise the value of dental hygiene, maintenance etc and increasingly orthodontics is no longer beyond the reach of people who might not consider themselves 'rich' but are happy to make the investment.

So perhaps Sir, might I interest you in "a set of false teeth?" Much more affordable than ...........

hardly work'n

I have been following the post I started with a lot of interest. Well I did find myself a designer and guess what the price was for the drawings €250. Yes €250 and I have to say I am over the moon with them. Our site is quite large at over an acre. Not only did we get a great set of drawings but on the drawings it has the name of each plant, a photo plus what the long term care for each plant is. ie what time of year to trim.

He came out to us for his first visit and we talked for about 2 1/2 hours about what we wanted for our garden and what we expected. Then he took several samples of soil around the site. He had a small ph test kit and we where delighted to find out we have great soil and will not have to be adding a lot of supplements to it. He did not do the drawings after the first visit becouse we were in the middle of building a wood burning outdoor oven and outdoor kitchen & sitting area (mad in ireland I know).

So he came back a second time when the outdoor kitchen and seating area where finished & that's when he started doing the measurments of the garden and the drawings in earnest. We walked thru the garden together and he took notes the whole time we spoke. That took another two hours. By the end of the week he had dropped off the drawings and I handed over the €250. It was an excellent service at an excellent price.

And what impressed me the most was that on the drawings there were a list of the local nursierys and who had the best prices!! Now that is service. So as Sonnehblumen seems to think paddy the plaster getting €500 per day. I know a lot of paddy the plasters and none of them ever ever got €500 per day!!

And the main reason that we wanted a landscape designer is becouse I don't like lawns and grass some people love them But I don't!

Sonnenblumen

Good for you, the designer must enjoy bananas!

aka_Ciaran

hardly work'n wrote: »

I have been following the post I started with a lot of interest. Well I did find myself a designer and guess what the price was for the drawings €250. Yes €250 and I have to say I am over the moon with them.

250 is a lot more realistic well done, goes to show what can be done if people shop around. Good luck to those who pay it, but 1000 euro for drawings is complete nonsense.

PC

hardly work'n wrote: »

I have been following the post I started with a lot of interest. Well I did find myself a designer and guess what the price was for the drawings €250. Yes €250 and I have to say I am over the moon with them. Our site is quite large at over an acre. Not only did we get a great set of drawings but on the drawings it has the name of each plant, a photo plus what the long term care for each plant is. ie what time of year to trim.

He came out to us for his first visit and we talked for about 2 1/2 hours about what we wanted for our garden and what we expected. Then he took several samples of soil around the site. He had a small ph test kit and we where delighted to find out we have great soil and will not have to be adding a lot of supplements to it. He did not do the drawings after the first visit becouse we were in the middle of building a wood burning outdoor oven and outdoor kitchen & sitting area (mad in ireland I know).
So he came back a second time when the outdoor kitchen and seating area where finished & that's when he started doing the measurments of the garden and the drawings in earnest. We walked thru the garden together and he took notes the whole time we spoke. That took another two hours. By the end of the week he had dropped off the drawings and I handed over the €250. It was an excellent service at an excellent price.

And what impressed me the most was that on the drawings there were a list of the local nursierys and who had the best prices!! Now that is service. So as Sonnehblumen seems to think paddy the plaster getting €500 per day. I know a lot of paddy the plasters and none of them ever ever got €500 per day!!

And the main reason that we wanted a landscape designer is becouse I don't like lawns and grass some people love them But I don't!

Well done hardly work'n...I've been watching this thread with great interest as I'm in the same boat.
Is there any way I can get the name of this 'Designer' as I would love him to have a look at my 'jungle' and hopefully make some sense of it.
Cheers...pc

old boy

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Good for you, the designer must enjoy bananas!

why do you keep matching expensive with quality