Memes or God - where do you get philosophy for living

CDfm

pH wrote: »

But (and once again you ignore the question) you still seem happy to praise and attribute "stopping killing babies" to Christianity?

Let me get this clear, are you say:

"You cant blame Christianity for individuals actions"

so are you actually saying:

"Christianity is not responsible for any individuals actions (good or bad), you can't blame it or praise it for people's behaviour - Christianity in no way affects peoples actions"

Or are you really saying something as stupid as:

"When people exposed to Christianity do good things (in my opinion) that's Christianity working (I CAN JUST TELL!) but any bad things they do that's just because that part of Christianity hasn't been accepted yet."

You know what I've changed my mind about what I said earlier about Pol Pot and atheists. All atheists are now by definition supremely moral people, anyone who isn't, isn't really an atheist, but secretly believes in God. This proves that Pol Pot couldn't possibly have been an atheist (he did some awful things) therefore he must have been religious.

pH I think you are determined to get into a creationist style argument and have no interest in where morals and ethics originate from.

Christianity gives an ethical framework but its an ideal but its not law.

Thou shalt not shag your neighbours missus- is a commandment but its not law. In Ireland its not a crime.

The reasons you might not do so is because of your religion or because your missus wouldnt like it or because you already are shagging her husband or because of a religious moral value.

So a Christian as an individual can choose to do so or not. Some would say "she is Hot -lets do it"

You have caught up on the Rome and babies thing- I think you misunderstand me. It was not concidered immoral in ancient Rome to kill handicapped babies but it wasnt obigatory. THe Emporor Claudius was physically handicapped.The Christianification of Rome influenced a change in practice and a cultural change followed.

But the cultural belief that evolved may have been :-
Nomadic Tribe - killing handicapped babies practical for mobility reasons Ancient Rome -continue tradition Christian Rome - Prohibit it publically replaced by smothering or neglect .......19th Century Institutionalise Handicapped Children .......Modern Rome Integrate into Mainstream Society or Abort "Non Normal" Foetus

You could have a different one for motherhood in agrarian societies and technology.A child can be neglected because the mother is harvesting grain or doing faemwork 14 hours a day to eat. So the value might exist but she may not have the opportunity to exercise it.

THats what I am talking about and the cultural value may evolve or change. I imagine memetics conciders those values on a macro basis and my criticism of it is that it is finite in what it considers not that it is worthless but does it add to what we already know. Does it add value?

So Christianity is not the only issue and does not exist in isolation to society. Labeling a society Christian does not account qualitively to their adherence to its belief system or to cultural values or norms that proceed it.

I think the debate you are looking for is for a different time and I dont know enough about Rwanda and its culture to help you.

robindch

CDfm wrote: »

I havent read Blackmore and have no plans to as what I have read doesnt convince me enough.

Well, I'm confussed now because while you've got the basic idea of memes down pat (and that's a good start), you don't seem to be aware of what the relevant authors are saying about them or of what the implications are and say that you don't want to read anything to correct these.

Seems a bit like trying to watch the telly with the power turned off.

CDfm

robindch wrote: »

Well, I'm confussed now because while you've got the basic idea of memes down pat (and that's a good start), you don't seem to be aware of what the relevant authors are saying about them or of what the implications are and say that you don't want to read anything to correct these.

Seems a bit like trying to watch the telly with the power turned off.

Thanks -well I did read up on it- but I dont know enough to write on comparative memetics:pac:

I can see the logic - and if I came across something by Blackmore I would give it the once over.To understand the different authors well......

CDfm

Wicknight wrote: »

Plus any believer has to reconcile the two testaments, something that may well be possible for someone who spends a long time trying to find an answer (the best people around here seem to come up with is that the Old Testament treatment of slaves, sex slaves, and other cultures was that a) it was better than anyone else or b) they deserved it, neither of which are lend themselves particularly well to high moral teaching.

The letters of the apostles attempt something like that - that might even be one of the earlest recorded use of memetics

Robinch -whatcha think?

CDfm

CerebralCortex wrote: »

What?

CC - you seem in some shock here.

Only a % of those baptised attend church services

only a % of those adhere to beliefs

wonder about the percentage that baptise children for school places though:)