Do you ever question why we have to go through so much pain?

midlandsmissus

I have moments where I rage at the world for all the unnecessary suffering women have to go through. It just seems so unfair.Does anybody else ever think about this?

To list:

*Pain during first sex. It was like being stabbed for at least the first five times for me. My best friend hinted that she suffered for a long time aswell with this. It was agony. Why? Why build a woman that she has to go through that?

*Breast pain and tenderness

*Period pain

*PMS

-Agony during childbirth (What is the point of this, why not just feel the need to push?)

-Suffering during menopause. I saw my poor mother go through this and she said it was absolute hell for her. Why does our reproductive system have to stop and men's don't?

And finally - not pain, but it's unfair: men can come during actual sex and most women cant or find it extrememely hard. Again why design women like this?


I just feel so angry sometimes because there seems so much unnecessary suffering and pain directed at us for no reason.

Anyone else ever get down about this?:(

allandanyways

Yup, it's crap... but think of what the men have to go through... sometimes they can't get it up, or they can get a kick in the balls and we all know that's more painful than childbirth :rolleyes:

coffee_cake

Who says anything "designed" us

And no I don't sit around moping about how unfair life may or may not be. Things are how they are, either you can change them or not.
Why not complain that people suffer pain at all?

It seems a very bizarre PoV tbh

Lockstep

Clearly someone has never been kneed in the nuts before.

midlandsmissus

bluewolf wrote: »

Who says anything "designed" us

And no I don't sit around moping about how unfair life may or may not be. Things are how they are, either you can change them or not.
Why not complain that people suffer pain at all?

It seems a very bizarre PoV tbh

Right so how exactly can I change it?

It's not like I sit around moping all the time about it, just sometimes. Because I hate things that are unfair that I cant control.

Its more that I can't figure out why there are two sexes and ONE has to go through so many indignites while the other doesn't.

DonkeyStyle \o/

I agree with the OP, I think the world needs to pay. *shakes fist*

coffee_cake

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Right so how exactly can I change it?

Change what?

Its more that I can't figure out why there are two sexes and ONE has to go through so many indignites while the other doesn't.

Mlm, I honestly hope you are not sitting there claiming that men don't have to go through any "indignities", etc.
It's a bit of a self absorbed pity party

Professey Chin

According to the bible its cause you ate the apple 1st
We got the fields

Terodil

Women have no natural limit to climaxing. Unfair :P

(I can see your point though, in principle, although griping over what fortune has awarded us with or withheld from us isn't a recipe for happiness.)

midlandsmissus

bluewolf wrote: »

Change what?


Mlm, I honestly hope you are not sitting there claiming that men don't have to go through any "indignities", etc.
It's a bit of a self absorbed pity party

Obviously you don't agree with me, but calling it a self absorbed pity party is a bit strong!

They don't have to go through HALF as much as us and any man I know agrees with me, in fact not even agrees with me, but BRINGS UP the subject with me, usually by saying "Thank god i'm a man".

Some-one saying that to me today actually made me think to post this thread!

Macha

Look at it this way: you get to experience a whole lotta things than men can never experience. Then again, men will experience a whole lotta things that women can never experience. Unless you plan on undergoing a sex operation, the coin had to come down on one side or the other.

Ok pain yeah but life is about experiences and women get to experience pregnancy! That's pretty cool imo. Breastfeeding? It may be painful but I imagine you have this amazing connection with your child when you're doing it... So I guess you're just going to have to look at things in a more positive light.

Barracudaincork

Like everything in life there is balance and womens pain relating to all womens parts are all part of that balance. No man could ever feel the amazing feeling of having your own baby grow inside you and the connection that you have as a result. Sometimes men missing out is there pain.

There are so many things a womens hormones etc brings to the world that it makes up for alot of the heartache caused by those who hurt them. Without women who would look out for each other and care about the important things in life. Men live a lonely existence in comparsion to the bond women have with there friends and family. Women enrich the world (as do men, but differently) in so many positive ways.

As for pain during first time sex, yeah that does stink i cant agrue with that!

I wont try and tell you how to feel, but maybe think about the good stuff about being a woman, when you think of the bad and think of the balance

Faith

Your post is very subjective.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

*Pain during first sex. It was like being stabbed for at least the first five times for me. My best friend hinted that she suffered for a long time aswell with this. It was agony. Why? Why build a woman that she has to go through that?

As far as I remember, I felt nothing but pleasure during my first time, and subsequent times. The only time I've ever had pain is being sore from having too much sex.

*Breast pain and tenderness

Not a problem for me.

*Period pain

Largely solved by the pill and ibuprofen.

*PMS

As above

-Agony during childbirth (What is the point of this, why not just feel the need to push?)

Fair enough, that's pretty sore.

-Suffering during menopause. I saw my poor mother go through this and she said it was absolute hell for her. Why does our reproductive system have to stop and men's don't?

I can't say I noticed my mum going through much suffering. Also, you've just been complaining about period pains and PMS - either you want periods or you don't?

And finally - not pain, but it's unfair: men can come during actual sex and most women cant or find it extrememely hard. Again why design women like this?

For some. Some 30% of women can orgasm from penetration. I'm one of the lucky ones.

I just feel so angry sometimes because there seems so much unnecessary suffering and pain directed at us for no reason.

Anyone else ever get down about this?:(

Oh, woe is us! How terrible that we feel occasional pain! You really think middle-class Western women are the victims of "unnecessary pain and suffering"? I think some women in the developing world would beg to differ. And if your post is just a men -vs- women one, men feel plenty of pain too. We don't have external genitalia that can easily be squashed/hit. We don't have foreskins that fail to retract properly, banjo strings that can snap, etc etc etc.

johnnyskeleton

Faith wrote: »

Oh, woe is us! How terrible that we feel occasional pain! You really think middle-class Western women are the victims of "unnecessary pain and suffering"? I think some women in the developing world would beg to differ.

+1.

OP, if you travel the world a bit more, you will see that "fair" has nothing to do with it.

allandanyways

The OP is addressing the negative bodily issues that many (if not most) women experience at some point in their lifetimes, it's not like she's just moaning about how she's feeling a bit crampy at the moment, alot of what she's said is experienced by women on a daily basis...

Faith wrote: »

As far as I remember, I felt nothing but pleasure during my first time, and subsequent times. The only time I've ever had pain is being sore from having too much sex.

That's great for you, but do you think that there would be so much concern amongst young adults today about how much sex can hurt if it didn't affect a large majority of people? Even if it's not hymen-related pain (ie already broken from tampon use etc), nerves and other factors can make the first (and subsequent)times very very painful. I myself haven't experienced subsequent pain (although first time hurt like hell) but I know several girls who have and have even been to the doc to try and figure out why sex hurts them so much. I don't think sex can cause as much agony to a man, although correct me if I'm wrong.

And in relation to how you're not affected by breast pain and how cramps are easily solved by the pill- not necessarily. I've changed pills 3 times and I still get breast tenderness and cramps, it's part of the menses, it's not possible to completley obliterate every symptom that you are menstruating. To say it's as easy as to pop a neurofen and be grand is insulting to women who suffer from very heavy and painful periods regardless of pill/whatever contraception they're on or indeed those suffering from endometriosis.

Faith wrote: »

I can't say I noticed my mum going through much suffering.

Again, do you think so much attention would be devoted to methods of making the transition through the menopause easier if it was such a breeze for everyone? My own mother is currently going through it and it's absolute hell for her.

Faith wrote: »

Some 30% of women can orgasm from penetration. I'm one of the lucky ones.

Congratulations, you seem to have the perfect life- easy periods, never experiencing any pain and you orgasm all the time. Your post is more subjective than the OP's.

Faith wrote: »

Oh, woe is us! How terrible that we feel occasional pain! You really think middle-class Western women are the victims of "unnecessary pain and suffering"? I think some women in the developing world would beg to differ.

The one point of yours that I agree with- what you've said is true, there's always someone worse off, we're lucky we have access to medical services to help us unfortunate ones who do experience pain. We are lucky that we don't have to go through what women in developing countries do.

Faith wrote: »

And if your post is just a men -vs- women one, men feel plenty of pain too. We don't have external genitalia that can easily be squashed/hit. We don't have foreskins that fail to retract properly, banjo strings that can snap, etc etc etc.

Foreskin probs and getting a kick in the balls vs pushing a 8lb child out of your vagina/eptopic pregnancies/ovarian cysts/the complete bodily overhaul that is pregnancy... Sorry I don't see how it's harder for men AT ALL.

I'm sorry to be such a b1tch- time of the month and all..

LivingDeadGirl

Tbh I think people are being a tad unfair towards the OP, I don't think her post was intended to be taken as seriously as its being taken. I don't think she's pitying herself, maybe just having a bit of a bad day or has been thinking about this a lot recently, as its come up a few times in conversation as she mentioned? I agree, sometimes it does seem a bit unfair to have to go through the stuff we do, but I'd much rather be a girl than a guy, so I think I'll stay this way.

MJOR

I like being a woman but the old timeof the month sucks alright:D

midlandsmissus

Faith wrote: »

As far as I remember, I felt nothing but pleasure during my first time, and subsequent times. The only time I've ever had pain is being sore from having too much sex.

Lucky


Not a problem for me.

Lucky



I can't say I noticed my mum going through much suffering. Also, you've just been complaining about period pains and PMS - either you want periods or you don't?

Em how about a reproductive sytem that isn't painful, and no painful end to it either.



For some. Some 30% of women can orgasm from penetration. I'm one of the lucky ones.

Lucky again


Oh, woe is us! How terrible that we feel occasional pain! You really think middle-class Western women are the victims of "unnecessary pain and suffering"? I think some women in the developing world would beg to differ. And if your post is just a men -vs- women one, men feel plenty of pain too. We don't have external genitalia that can easily be squashed/hit. We don't have foreskins that fail to retract properly, banjo strings that can snap, etc etc etc.[/quote]

For a start middle class has absolutely nothing to do with anything. And if you think every woman in the western world is 'middle class' that is very ignorant of you. I, myself come from a deprived background.

Back on topic, em seeing as you don't go through half the things I'm talking about who are you to judge me who goes through all of them? For you to describe it as 'occasional pain' is very condescending when I'd say there is about one week of the month I am NOT in pain what with breasts, periods etc.
Painkillers take the edge off it (prescribed ones) but thats it. I live round it.

And I know girls who go through the same as me.

Just because you have it easy don't look down your nose at me.

Faith

midlandsmissus wrote: »

For a start middle class has absolutely nothing to do with anything. And if you think every woman in the western world is 'middle class' that is very ignorant of you. I, myself come from a deprived background.

Back on topic, em seeing as you don't go through half the things I'm talking about who are you to judge me who goes through all of them? For you to describe it as 'occasional pain' is very condescending when I'd say there is about one week of the month I am NOT in pain what with breasts, periods etc.
Painkillers take the edge off it (prescribed ones) but thats it. I live round it.

And I know girls who go through the same as me.

Just because you have it easy don't look down your nose at me.

I'm not looking down my nose at you at all, I'm simply pointing out that your post is not representative of the majority of women in the world. Your post is in fact a moan about all the suffering you go through, not women in general. Sucks that you're in so much pain from your periods, but I can't think of any women I know offhand who go through even a fraction of that. You sound very unfortunate, but when you start to get angry at the injustice of it, why don't you put it in context and think of those worse off than you? Maybe that's how you can change it.

allandanyways

Faith wrote: »

I'm not looking down my nose at you at all, I'm simply pointing out that your post is not representative of the majority of women in the world. Your post is in fact a moan about all the suffering you go through, not women in general. Sucks that you're in so much pain from your periods, but I can't think of any women I know offhand who go through even a fraction of that. You sound very unfortunate, but when you start to get angry at the injustice of it, why don't you put it in context and think of those worse off than you? Maybe that's how you can change it.

I'll think you'll find that the majority of women are in a similar position to the OP, not the other way around. You and your friends must be on some magic pill that makes life a breeze because I can't even count on both hands the number of women I know who go through agony for up to and over a week every month, some every day of the month because of their menstrual cycle.

Banrion

What were the original ailments of the op? I've forgotten but I've often thought about that....the pain and all. Yes we dont have genital mutilation and all and we have it great really compared to 200 years ago but come on lets face it, its all relative. My pain is my pain. I dont sit through period pain thinking I have it lucky cos I could be in a gutter in Somalia with one leg....
I often think about childbirth and why it has to be painful. Isnt nature very cruel really? Like those nature programmes....when you see wolves and the way they kill their prey (Im on a tangent here but Ill be back) but its so cruel the way wolves chase their prey until theyre so tired they cant run anymore and then they basically bite them to death. Its so cruel. Nature is a bitch really. Poor deers.

GirlInterrupted

allandanyways wrote: »

I'll think you'll find that the majority of women are in a similar position to the OP, not the other way around. You and your friends must be on some magic pill that makes life a breeze because I can't even count on both hands the number of women I know who go through agony for up to and over a week every month, some every day of the month because of their menstrual cycle.

And I'm very sorry they do, but the pill and painkillers should surely help allieviate the worst of these symptoms, surely?

I had a detailed response composed to the OP, but it timed out and I can't be bothered to do it again, but I would like to say that sometimes its how you look at things that colour your experiences.

I've had painful menstruation, tender breasts and PMS, but I consider those things a small price to pay for my fertility.

Childbirth may be painful, but I'll pay the price for the experience of pregnancy and motherhood, which I know many experience as a magically wonderful thing, not a series of trials and horrors.

The menopause may be difficult in the extreme for some, but I'll try to focus on the final freedom from the trials of fertility, and the new phase of my life that it will herald.

I may not orgasm every time from pure penetration, but I don't consider a non-penetrative orgasm as a lesser experience. And I'm capable, like all women, of multiple orgasms...men, not so much!

Painful first sex? It was fleeting, and quickly forgotten. That might just make me lucky, or maybe I was lucky to be with someone who was mindful of me, but either way, in the long run, I'd prefer to focus on what I gained, not what price I paid.

JC 2K3

Male suicide rates are much higher than female ones.

Be happy that the reasons for your suffering are understood and discussed openly.

Otis Driftwood

OK,Im not going to start a debate on who has it harder,God knows it has been done to death countless times but there are a few things that I would like to mention that show its not all rosey being a bloke.

Sex
Ok,we all know its generally easier for men to orgasm during sex however women do not have the worry of not being able to get an erection.There is no such thing (in my experience) as coming too soon for a woman plus most women can have multiple orgasms in a very short space of time.Every bloke I know,myself included have in the back of our minds concerns about the size of our penis.Seriously,how many men on here or men you know wouldnt like an extra inch or 2?(awaits comment from someone claiming to be John Holmes reincarnated :P )There are performance anxiety issues.Tell a man and a woman they are crap in bed,who do you think it would effect/hurt the most?Finally,casual sex.Most women that fancy a shag can go out and get one if they so choose,how many men can say the same?
Also,generally men are expected to ask the girl out,do the chatting up etc.
Thats a trauma and a half.

Clothes/appearance
Take any city in the world.They will more than likely have 8 or 9 out of every 10 clothes stores speficifically for women.If a guy is working in a job that requires a suit and tie,then realistically a decent suit,couple of shirts and ties,pair of decent shoes is going to run to 4-600 quid yet a woman can go get a skirt,pair of trousers,couple of blouses(or whatever),pair of shoes for less than 200 quid and still look a million dollars yet a bloke in a cheap suit looks like a bloke in a cheap suit.Women have handbags to hold all their possessions in yet a guy is expected to keep his entire identity in his wallet and or pockets.Dont get me wrong,I dont want or need a handbag/manbag,Im just making a point.Women can wear mens clothes and no remarks are passed.To the lads reading this,how often have you seen a girlfriend wear one of your shirts for example while mooching around the house.Maybe its just me but there have been a couple of past partners that have done this and they looked so adorable in an oversized shirt or hoody or whatever.I can firmly say if I had tried on one of their dresses then the result would have been,bad.
On the appearance side of things,with the majority of men,what you see is what you get.With the fairer sex however there is make up,push up bras,hold all in knickers,fake tan and high heels.Holy frick,ye are in disguise half the time!!
With most women the only hair they have to worry about is underarm,legs and bikini line.Men can have hairy arms,hairy hands,hairy chests,hairy backs,hairy arses and worst of all the very real possibility of going bald!Plus we have to shave our faces every day.As someone with a sensitive face this is traumatic and I bleed every single time.:mad:

Shopping
Nearly every single woman I know loves shopping and can happily spend 5 or 6 hours wandering around clothes shops.Every bloke I know hates going shopping.We know what we want,get in,get it and get out.You can spot the blokes on shopping trips with their other half.They wander around following the female,head down like a child with a smacked arse.I know,Ive been that bloke.Believe me,3 hours walking around Dundrum shopping centre is enough to make you want to be single.

Life
I know its 2009,we are an enlightened and modern society but there is still a ridiculous amount of pressure on men to be the hunter-gatherer.Alot of the time the onus is on the man to be the major bread winner/provider for married couples.Now Im sure some people are going to jump on this and say that they are modern women and dont need a man to take care of them-as it should be IMO-however how many can honestly say this isnt the case not all,but alot of the time.
Men are (mostly)expected to be a protector.Say if someone makes a comment/does something to your female friend/GF/sister then the man is expected to square up to the perpetrator and get an apology.
Men are expected to hold doors,pull out chairs,hold the umbrella,go to the bar when the pub is crowded,change tires,kill bugs,carry the shopping,unblock sinks,tune in the tv,unscrew lids and countless other little things.


The above may sound like Im bitching but believe me,Ive happily done all of the above in the past(except the marriage thing)and will have no problem doing them in the future,again,Im just making a point.

Women Specific Issues
Period pain - ye can have that one,we have no comeback
Menopause - baldness,impotence and mid life crises
Childbirth - epidural


Ok,think Im done.All of the above is in no way written to downplay what alot of women go through,Im just trying to give a more balanced view as to the rigours men have to go through.


******puts on blindfold and awaits firing squad******

The_Minister

As mentioned above multiple orgasms!!

midlandsmissus wrote: »

-Suffering during menopause. I saw my poor mother go through this and she said it was absolute hell for her. Why does our reproductive system have to stop and men's don't?

Ours does actually, you're all just too busy moaning to notice:pac:

No, but seriously, male menopause exists, but it occurs about at a much later stage in life for us.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

And finally - not pain, but it's unfair: men can come during actual sex and most women cant or find it extrememely hard. Again why design women like this?

The scientific explanation that I have heard is that achieving orgasm indicates a superior male specimin (stamina etc.). When orgasm occurs, apparently a convulsion happens that sucks in some of the male fluid, increasing the chances of fertilisation.

I'm not sure if you were really asking or not, but thats one theory.

embee

midlandsmissus wrote: »

-Agony during childbirth (What is the point of this, why not just feel the need to push?)

You do feel the urge to push, generally once you are fully dilated. I found that urge pretty overwhelming - your whole body is telling you to push and it's fairly intense.

Your abdominal contractions are there to push your baby's head down onto the cervix, encouraging it to open and thin out. They're muscles, and they're going to be worked hard as they are working in an expulsive way. Of course it's going to hurt.

The actual "business" end of childbirth, ie pushing the baby out, doesn't "hurt" as such, there is a lot of pressure which can be overwhelming, but there isn't "pain", not really. The "pain" of childbirth are the contractions. Yes they're sore, but they're not unbearable and they don't go on for ever.

nedtheshed wrote:

Childbirth - epidural

Doesn't always work. Can sometimes freeze you only partially, down one half of the body. Doesn't take away the feeling of pressure completely. Leaves you bed-bound and therefore restricts delivery positions. Can cause severe headache. Woman is more likely to need an episiotomy and/or assisted delivery. Longer labours. Some evidence that there is an increased risk of requiring a C-section.

No matter how you deliver, with or without pain relief, you are sore for some days afterwards. And very, very tired. Epidurals in a lot of cases mean catheterisation. Epidurals are not the wonder-drug some people believe them to be

watna

I sometimes do wonder why we go through so much pain - but only when I'm in pain, if I stub my toe or stand on a plug (don't you just hate that?) for the minute I'm in pain with it I always think the world is futile and wonder why we feel pain - then the pain stops and I don't think about that until the next time. That's not gender specific though, it my pain filled minute I wonder why anyone has to feel pain.

As for the men/women thing. I don't suffer pain, really from any of the things the OP mentioned so I can't really empathise. Yes, women do have it a bit harder but I'm still glad I am one. Were far better equipped to deal with emotional pain for starters.

Macha

Sorry I just had to take you up on a few things *loads gun*

Sex
Body worries - it's been proven that women have more body anxieties than men, in general and starting from a very young age. Care to worry about cellulite, breast size/perkiness, length of legs, slimness of thighs..??
Performance anxiety & doing the chatting up - you're right there.
Casual sex - anyone can go out and get a shag if they want to, it just depends how much you're willing to lower your standards.

Clothes/appearance
You can look at this from the other point of view and argue that the focus on women to look good is the root of why there are more women's clothes choices. As for price - I'd have to disagree with you there. My boyf got a great quality suit in M&S in the sales and looks lovely in it.

Handbags - so true!

Women wearing men's clothes - I have heard the argument that this is down to the concept that a man wearing a woman's clothes is degrading because they think that being a woman is degrading. But it's OK for women to wear men's clothes because being a man is good. I'll try and find article I read.

Fairer sex (argh-I hate that phrase) - most of those "tricks" are expensive, polluting, wasteful, time-consuming and marketed to take full advantage of any body hang-ups we may have (as well as promoting said body-hang ups to the max). Be thankful you're allowed to be closer to your natural selves.

Hair - Women can have facial hair and hair all over their bodies. BUT we are only expected to have hair on our heads and a neat bikini line. Off with the rest. Cue more expensive, uncomfortable, time-consuming treatments. Again, be happy your natural hairy selves are more acceptable (ever arrived at the gym and cursed because you forgot to shave your underarms??)-although of course, there is starting to be more pressure on back hair, etc. (Anyone remember Julia Robertsgate when she turned up with unshaven armpits at a premiere? World news the next day.)

Shopping
That's up to individuals - I hate shopping and would never force a boyfriend to traipse around the shops after me. I know many women who hate shopping.

Life
True - hopefully this will start changing.

Women Specific Issues

Childbirth - epidural

Um...there's so much more to child birth than just the pain. Stitches afterwards, wearing a pad for 6 weeks. Stretchmarks all over. Many friends of mine had searing back-pain from 5 months onwards.
We haven't even gone into the potential medical complications...

OK I'm done - ready for return fire :pac:

Agent Smith

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Clearly someone has never been kneed in the nuts before.

i read the first post and the first think that came to mind was
"someone hasnt been kicked directly in the testicles...."

kapama

Amen to allandanyways.

The worst thing I experience as a woman is to work during pms. My moods change a hundred times during the day and my job requiers me to be friendly ALL THE TIME.

minidazzler

kapama wrote: »

Amen to allandanyways.

The worst thing I experience as a woman is to work during pms. My moods change a hundred times during the day and my job requiers me to be friendly ALL THE TIME.

I can beat that in an hour given the wrong company.