Whatawaster vs. Wardie

Bubs101 · 06-03-2009 10:15pm #1

whatawaster wrote: »

Team Discovery Channel

Planning

I began by trawling through wikipedia pages, club websites and various other sources, compiling an excel database of around 500 players from virtually every club who have played in the premier league. I then went through every name quickly and rated them all out of ten (there were 27 tens) and sorted them by position. Two things became clear: 1. I was only going to get one or two world class players into my team, and i had to make them count, and 2. There was a real shortage of top-class attacking players beyond the elite few. So my strategy was a no-brainer. Build from the front. Apart from the fact that there are fewer quality attacking players, I believe that it would be possible to build a solid defence around 5 average players (as it turns out I wasn't left with 5 average defenders), but it would be far more difficult to score goals and create chances with a mediocre attack.

My picks (in order chosen)

1. Thierry Henry - Centre Forward - 254 premier league appearances
My talisman and my captain. Phenomenal goal-scoring and goal creation record, and for me he's hands down the best attacking player the premier league has seen.

2. Steve McManaman - Right Wing / Free Role - 240 premier league appearances
He has it all - pace, engine, workrate, ego, dribbling and most importantly - delivery. Only David Beckham has a better assists to games ratio in premier league history, and no other Liverpool player has created as many goals as Macca.

3. Damien Duff - Left Wing / Second Striker - 320 premier league appearances
Damo will bring tremendous pace, the ability to beat players with ease, excellent workrate and tremendous versatility. Also a discount on Lucozade.

4. Dietmar Hamann - Defensive Midfielder - 268 premier league appearances
Rock solid, reliable, hugely experienced in the PL. He'll protect my back four by breaking up play and set off attacks with his accurate passing. Also strikes an excellent dead ball.

5. Robbie Keane - Centre Forward - 292 premier league appearances
I brought in Robbie because i think he'll complement Henry perfectly. Has wonderful movement, vision and works tirelessly for the team. Also has an excellent eye for goal.

6. Thomas Gravesen - Central Midfielder - 156 premier league appearances
Again brought in as he'll complement Didi beautifully. Will bring much needed aggression, fight and determination to the engine room and he is much under-rated in an attacking sense. He'll create chances, support the attacks and chip in with the odd vital goal.

7. Rob Jones - Right Back - 155 premier league appearances
Was my first choice right back from the start. Excellent all-round full-back. A very good defender and he loves to get forward and is good on the ball. He has also played a lot with McManaman so they should have plenty of chemistry on the right flank.

8. Stephane Henchoz – Centre Back – 233 premier league appearances
One of the best tacklers I’ve seen in the premiership, Henchoz was a key member of Liverpool’s treble winning side in 2001. He boasts decent pace, he’s good in the air and has an invaluable knack of getting away with handballs in big matches.

9. John Beresford – Left Back – 179 premier league appearances
Like Jones, Beresford is a fine all round player. Solid in defence and classy in attack he made his name as a pivotal member of Newcastle’s “entertainers.”

10. Alan Stubbs – Centre Back – 204 premier league appearances
A tough battling centre-half, who showed his leadership skills in leading Bolton to a league cup final in the mid ninties. Can be relied on to organize the defense well and is excellent in the air.

11. Thomas Sorensen – Goalkeeper – 265 premier league appearances
Hugely experienced premiership goalkeeper. Wonderful shot-stopper and good in all other areas. I couldn’t believe I got him in the 11th round.

The Formation(s)
Sorensen

Jones
Stubbs
Henchoz
Beresford

McManaman
Hamann
Gravesen
Duff
Keane
Henry (c)

On paper it looks like your standard 442, but I see it slightly differently. The goalkeeper and back four are obvious, and Hamann will sit in front of them, only venturing forward on rare occasions. Gravesen will be the aggressor in midfield and will play box to box. These 7 will provide the team with excellent shape and solidity in defense.
The front 4 will line up as they are in the formation above, but I will try and base our attacks fluency of movement, making good use of the versatility of all four players. So you could see us line up as above, or:
Duff
McManaman
Henry----
Keane

Or countless other variations. The opposition won’t know what to expect!

Defense

It is said that all great teams are built on a great defense. Built from the back. Not mine. But overall I’m absolutely delighted with how my back 5 panned out. I think I got great value from my last 5 picks. I honestly don’t see my team shipping too many goals.
- My team is equipped to defend from the front. Keane, Duff, McManaman and Gravesen all have good engines and attitudes and will hassle and harass opponents on the ball high up the pitch. This, hopefully, will limit onslaughts against my defense.
- All my attacking players are good on the ball. I’d expect to spend plenty of time in the opposition areas, again easing the pressure on my defense.
- Didi Hamann. He has shown through his career, though particularly at Liverpool, that he is a super solid holding midfielder. He’ll sit, break up attacks, limit the space for the opposition’s creative players and play simple passes to start attacks.
- Full backs. I think I have two of the most under-rated full-backs the premiership has seen. Both have good recovery pace to help the centre backs
- Both centre-backs have lots of PL experience, both good readers of the game, good in the air and strong in the tackle. Neither is blessed with extraordinary pace, but make up for it with their strong positional sense.

Midfield

I’m very happy with my balance in this area. Hamann will have a calming influence on the whole team. Slowing the pace down when we are under pressure, laying it off to another player when we are starting attacks. Gravesen will be the opposite. Full of energy, making tackles and getting up and down the pitch. He will be vital both defensively and offensively to my team. Both midfielders are adept at winning back and maintaining possession and I feel confident that they won’t be over-run or dominated by even the stronger midfields they will come up against. Robbie will, of course, drop back to lend a helping hand when needed.

Attack

This is the area of the team I’m most pleased about.
- Jones and Beresford both have the will and the ability to get forward whenever they see the opportunity. Both are strong crossing on their respective flanks when they get past their winger. Both have the legs to beat their opposite player. Both are classy enough on the ball to pick out a player further infield when there is nothing else on ahead of them.
- McManaman I see as the main creative force in my team. He is an assist machine. His starting position will always be the right flank, but I envisage him often roaming infield with the ball, swapping flanks with Duff, or even playing through the middle behind Keane, with Henry drifting wide.
- Duff. Another versatile attacking threat. Experience on both flanks and up front for his country. I won’t shackle him the way Mourinho did at Chelsea. He’ll be allowed to express himself, hopefully showing the kind of devastating form that saw him light up the 2002 world cup.
- Keane. An important link man between defense and attack. His vision will hopefully see him set up Henry for countless chances, and his movement is excellent so he’ll make himself space for the wingers to find him in. He’ll play a pivotal role in my side. I expect him to lead the line on occasions (don’t worry, there’ll be no long balls up to him), but more often to drop deep, link up with the wingers, play one twos with Gravesen when he advances forward. And of course, chip in with some goals.
- Henry. My brother. My captain. My king. Undoubtedly my most important player. As an attacker he has everything. He has the movement to wait up top for a through ball, the intelligence to find space out wide and terrify full-backs and most importantly, he loves scoring goals. I expect chances to be many in my side. I think he’ll relish the attacking system I’ll play. As attacking as Arsenal were, but hopefully more clinical and direct. Like my other attacking players he’ll have the freedom to use his versatility. Dropping deep, drifting wide etc . . .

Overall

All in all, I couldn’t be happier with the way the draft has gone. At the start of this process, I set out what my dream side would be. Once I had decided on Henry as a first pick I tweaked this side, omitting obviously unrealistic players like Keane, Viera etc. In the end I managed to get three of them (Henry, McManaman and Jones). All of the players I picked were fairly high on my shortlists, and many of them became first choices after a couple of rounds. I’ll finish by analyzing my teams main strengths and potential weaknesses (and more importantly how I’ll overcome them):

Strengths –
- I believe I have the best attacking options out of all the teams in the draft. I love the balance of my attack. Two wingers, two overlapping attacking fullbacks. An intelligent linking striker and the best forward in premier league history.
- Experience. When I saw other teams including players with 40 or so appearances I knew I’d have an edge in this department. All my players have more than 150 premier league appearances between them. On average each of them has played 233 times in the league. I believe this is very important and I doubt many teams are as experienced.

Weaknesses
- My central defenders could be said to lack pace. There were certainly quicker full backs out there for me to choose, but I’m happy with Henchoz and Stubbs. The fullbacks both have the pace to help them out, Hamann will work tirelessly to protect them and they are both intelligent enough to position themselves in the right areas to snuff out threats.
- There have been doubts expressed over Henry’s captaincy in the past, but to defend him I think he is the right choice for my team. He will lead by terrific example and unlike at Arsenal he won’t be leading a team of kids, rather a side full of experienced premier league players.

Team Name:Team Discovery Channel
Captain: Thierry Henry
Free Kicks: Thierry Henry, Didi Hamann
Corners: Duffer, Macca
Penalties: Thierry Henry

Finally, I’d like to thank Lloyd for all his effort in putting all of this together. It really has been great fun.

vs.

Agbonlahor----Cantona
Merson----Ince----Sherwood----Solano
Silviniho

Albert

Keown

Bardsley

Martyn

whatawaster · 06-03-2009 10:59pm

Wardie

Definitely my toughest match so far, but i think my team will have more than enough to beat Wardie's side.

1. Up front. There's no doubting the class of Cantona, but Agbonlahor is in my opinion an average player who only has one thing - pace. Nowhere near good enough for this draft imo.
Between the two of them they have 95 goals in 245 appearances. My duo have 547 appearances and 284 goals. Over twice as many appearances, and over three times as many goals. That is a greater impact on the premiership in anyone's book.

2. Wingers

McManaman and Duff are imo a cut above Merson and Solano. Merson was a classy, creative player. The problem is he's supplying Agbonlahor, who will fluff more chances than he scores (even ask Villa fans!). Likewise, Solano was a fantastic premiership player, but i feel my duo have had a greater impact.
All four had great longevity in the premiership, but McManaman is second only to Beckham in the premier league's all time assists to games table.
I think he's easily the pick of the four wide players.
And imho Duff has had the second greatest premier league impact. Yes, more so than Merson. And it seems i'm not alone. I picked Duff in round three, in the midst of heated debate over who was better (him or Robben) and it seemed Duffer was in other people's minds for that pick. Merson was not picked till round 5 (and brings with him many many off field problems) and Solano till round 6.
My duo can both play as out and out wingers, can both switch wings and are supplying a far more potent forward line. (see point one above)

3. Midfield will be a tremendous battle. Both midfields are very balanced and i can't see either Midfield dominating.

4. I think i have easily the better fullbacks. Rob Jones is imo in the top 3 right backs in premier league history, a class Bardsley just doesn't come near.
Silvinho has played a paltry 55 premier league games, having nowhere near the impact Beresford did. He also can't defend.

In conclusion, while i believe Wardie's team has ample creativity with Cantona, Sherwood and Merson, i think that - 1. It lacks a goalscorer up front to make the most of this (Gabby has only 31 premier league goals).
I think it is also comparitively weak in the full back areas, and i think i have the strongest wing duo in this draft.
I also don't believe that, solid a defender as he was, Keown will be able to handle Henry's pace and movement, Duff's pace and movement, McManaman's pace and movement and Keane's movement and intelligence. And when all four of them start changing positions (Henry against Bardsley on the left wing?!)

Imo there is one embarrassing mismatch on the field. It's Silvinho with his very poor relative impact on the premier league, against McManaman, who lit it up for many years and gave even quality fullbacks tortuous times.

eagle eye · 09-03-2009 5:07pm

This is one very tight affair, I'm finding it hard to choose a winner. It would be helpful if Wardie put up a post about how he intends to play this.

whatawaster · 09-03-2009 5:48pm

Wardie

I think it'll be tight in Midfield, but that's about it.

My forward line has significantly more goals in it - twice as many appearances and three times as many goals. That speaks for itself.

I think i have the strongest wing-duo in the draft, and he has possibly the weakest full backs.

I think i have very, very strong full backs and a solid DM in Hamann who will stifle much of his creativity.

I think, over the course of a season, i'd win easily.

wardie · 10-03-2009 12:26am

Finally got some time to reply so here goes...

wardie wrote: »

Goalkeeper

Nigel Martyn

Solid dependable keeper. Martyn had a grest career, especially at Leeds where he was an important part of their success during his time there. He only had 23 Caps for England as he was stuck behind Seaman. Loved by Leeds fans and got into their all time XI and also a popular player at Palace and Everton.

Mr Dependable and will prove a tough barrier to pass

Full Backs

Silviniho & David Bardsley

Silviniho was a great left full. He was only here 2 years before a combination of ashley cole and Passport problems saw him leave. He was one of the best attacking full backs I have seen and will cause teams no end of problems when coming forward.
Solid defensively too as he had to be to follow winterburn

David Bardsley will be a solid right full who will balance out Silvinihos attacking instincts on the other side. A previous winger and great crosser so when getting forward will be comfortable on the ball

Centre Halfs

Martin Keown & Phillipe albert

Martin Keown is a winner and the type of dominant centre half you need in your team. Very quick for such a big attacking centre half, he wont let anything by him easily

Albert on the other hand is more of a ball playing centre half. Memories of his lob in Newcastles rout of utd spring to mind but he will be a good ball player alongside Keown

Centre Midfield

Paul Ince & Tim Sherwood

Ince can be a driving force in the middle of the park and is a real box to box player. Great stamina, strength and pace he is a really tough competitor and will drive the team on

Sherwood beside him will prove an excellent foil. A very under rated player he won the title with blackburn and went on to prove himself a dependable midfielder and will hold onto possession well

Wingers

Nolberto Solano & Paul Merson

2 excellent footballers on either wing. Solano technically was one of the best players to grace the premiership. a great dead ball specialist. A firm fan favourite, he is pacy enough to attack full backs and can deliver a great final ball

Paul Merson is one of my all time favourite players. Full of invention he will cut inside all day letting silvinho go outside him and exploit the space behind. Merson with the ball was a genius and with Cantona up top can create bundles of chances.

Strikers

Eric Cantona & Gabby Aghbonlahor

Agbonlahor is all about pace. He has added a bit more strength this year but it is mainly about his pace. With players like Cantona, Merson and Solano threading balls inside for him, his pace could destroy teams.

Whats can you say about Cantona. He arrived in time to lead Utd to 4 premiership titles. Man u player of the decade he can prove an inspiration up top. With the talent around him he would be in heaven (as opposed to playing with Cole every week ) and the team would have goals around the park

Overall

I feel this team is very solid and has a good spine through the team and pace and goals everywhere. A solid centre half partnership with a good goalie has a good base to attack from and Sherwood and Ince will provide a good buffer there too.

Going forward there is goals all over the pitch although the fights over who takes the free kicks might get a bit heated

Now onto comparing the 2 sides.

I feel I have a much stronger keeper to start of. Martyn was a top notch keeper for his entire career and is a huge step up from Sorenson. Sorenson would prove a liabilty during the season and after he makes a few mistakes he confidence would go and he would really struggle as he did with villa.

I dont agree with saying that I have weak full backs. Silviniho may have only played 55 premiership games but he was widely admired and was a real threat going forward. He would have the pace to match up with mc manaman and would keep him on the back foot. You dont get in at a club like arsenal and replace a legend like winterburn if you cant defend.

David Bardsley was a quality full back but will never get the recognition he deserves ass he was at unfashionable clubs. Again he would have Duff on the back foot as he likes to go forward but was a super defender.

Over the course of the season you need good attacking full backs and that is what I have.

Henry and Keane would keep any centre half pairing busy but Keown and albert at least have pace to help them out. With Sherwood sitting deep to restrict the space for Keane the main danger would be henry. On his day he can destroy any team so you can just limit his influence.
Keane and Henry will cause loads of problems but if they are dominated in the middle of the park it will severly limit their chances.

I think I have a big edge in midfield with Ince especially being the difference. Hamman and Sherwood would be similar type players to hold in front of the back 4 but Ince is a huge step up from Gravensen and would run the show in the middle of the park.

Going forward I think I have 2 great wingers too and in Cantona the man to bring it all together. Agbonahlor will grow into his role and though he has gone off the boil in the league currently he is a streaky striker and will score lots and lots of goals.

Overall

I think both these sides will score buckets of goals in the league and the strength of both sides is certainly going forward.

I just feel my back 5 especially the keeper will turn out to be that bit stronger and that my attacking players will hold on to the ball better and thus keep pressure of the defence.

I for one would pay good money to see this match up

whatawaster · 10-03-2009 12:48am

Wardie

wardie wrote: »

Finally got some time to reply so here goes...

Now onto comparing the 2 sides.

I feel I have a much stronger keeper to start of. Martyn was a top notch keeper for his entire career and is a huge step up from Sorenson. Sorenson would prove a liabilty during the season and after he makes a few mistakes he confidence would go and he would really struggle as he did with villa.

I dont agree with saying that I have weak full backs. Silviniho may have only played 55 premiership games but he was widely admired and was a real threat going forward. He would have the pace to match up with mc manaman and would keep him on the back foot. You dont get in at a club like arsenal and replace a legend like winterburn if you cant defend.

David Bardsley was a quality full back but will never get the recognition he deserves ass he was at unfashionable clubs. Again he would have Duff on the back foot as he likes to go forward but was a super defender.

Over the course of the season you need good attacking full backs and that is what I have.

Henry and Keane would keep any centre half pairing busy but Keown and albert at least have pace to help them out. With Sherwood sitting deep to restrict the space for Keane the main danger would be henry. On his day he can destroy any team so you can just limit his influence.
Keane and Henry will cause loads of problems but if they are dominated in the middle of the park it will severly limit their chances.

I think I have a big edge in midfield with Ince especially being the difference. Hamman and Sherwood would be similar type players to hold in front of the back 4 but Ince is a huge step up from Gravensen and would run the show in the middle of the park.

Going forward I think I have 2 great wingers too and in Cantona the man to bring it all together. Agbonahlor will grow into his role and though he has gone off the boil in the league currently he is a streaky striker and will score lots and lots of goals.

Overall

I think both these sides will score buckets of goals in the league and the strength of both sides is certainly going forward.

I just feel my back 5 especially the keeper will turn out to be that bit stronger and that my attacking players will hold on to the ball better and thus keep pressure of the defence.

I for one would pay good money to see this match up

The key point we have to go back to is impact on the premiership

Martyn beats Sorensen in this regard. I agree with you on that.

Rob Jones was one of the best Right Back's the premier league has seen, great in defence and attack. Far bigger impact than Bardsley.

Beresford's impact dwarfs that of Silvinho also. His lack of premier league experience does matter. He is good going forward, but McManaman would destroy him, dragging him all over the pitch as he does so well.

The Centre back pairings - Keown had the greatest impact of the four. Henchoz next. Then Stubbs. Then Albert. I've no doubt in my mind about this. So in terms of impact, i think the pairings are similar.

Central midfield. I think there are four quality players here, and it will indeed be a battle. I think you're under-rating Gravesen seriously, though i'd agree Ince is better than him. I do, however, prefer Hamann to Sherwood, but that's personal opinion. I think the midfields are close. You may think you shade it, but you certainly won't get dominace when i have such great balance in there - Hamann's discipline and Gravesen's aggression.

Wings. I think this is where i set up my victory. McManaman's impact on the premier league is way ahead of the other 3. He's an assists machine, a roving, pacy athlethe who just keeps going and always finds the killer pass. In impact terms, i think Duff comes next. Firstly for his contribution to Blackburn for many years and secondly for his key contribution to Chelsea's league titles. I do like Solano and Merson, but my duo offer more pace and versatility than your two.

Up front is where i win the match. Henry and Cantona are clearly a class above here, but for me Henry is the best attacking force the premier league has seen. His goal record is infinitely better than Cantona's, and he has a far far bigger sample size.
Keane has had ten times the impact on the premier league Gabby has had.
Overall, as i've said before, my strikers have played twice as many games, and scored three times as many goals as yours.
Over the course of a season, i'd be very confident of winning out.

In conclusion, i think i've shown that i'm competitive in centre midfield and at centre back, but am far better in the fullback areas. I don't think this can be reasonably argued with, unless we ignore the notion of impact on the premier league altogether. My wingers are more versatile, pacy and direct. A nightmare for your weak fullbacks. And my strikers compliment each other well and offer a much greater goalthreat, to go with the superior supply line they'll enjoy from the wings.

I do agree it'd be a great game though. My toughest task yet.

Whatawaster vs. Wardie

Waster vs. Wardie 15 votes

Comments