ASTI and TUI vote for Industrial Action

Lady_North

Matthew712 wrote: »

Spending money on SNA's at the expense of qualified teachers, worsens the PTR across the board. Which impacts on the performance of the students who are meant to eventually complete on a world forum to generate wealth which can then be used to provide an enhanced service for all. SNA's were a cheap solution to the problem the Synott case caused Bertie

It's not a competition you know. If you think that teachers jobs will be saved by getting rid of sna's then you are sadly mistaken. They should be looking at all the crap teachers out there who should not be in schools and get rid of them. (And yes I know what I'm talking about, I work with several of them)

nesf

ytareh wrote: »

Dont you realise that this was barely , if even , keeping up with inflation (running at 5% pa).Besides which private sector salaries were leagues ahead of the public sector.Come on !You know how far behind we were left during the Celtic Tiger years .I had a similarly (or lower ) qualified friend who works in construction .When I was on about 20k he was on 45k ,when I was on about 37k he was on 100k and of course 'bonuses' sometimes went into five figures .(We used get 27 euro at Christmas but that seems to have gone by the wayside along the way !)Benchmarking was a farce again barely,if even, keeping up with inflation .
And before you ask , YES he's still got his job!!!

Out lack of wage restraint is precisely what has gotten us into this mess. Construction workers were horribly overpaid in the last decade. There have been mass layoffs in the industry because of the correction and yet you complain about not getting the same salary being a public sector worker with no prospect of job losses for most staff?

Matthew712

In the 80's Teachers were denied a Labour court Pay Award by Fitzgerald Coalition, on the grounds that we all needed to make sacrafices for the good of the Country. Public servants did. Many of the wealthy in the private sector hide their wealth. When the boom can teachers were told they didn't create boom, they didn't take risks, they have it good in the bad times. Not so! 2000 teaching jobs lost. 2 yrs Pay freeze, pay cuts. In action by government -- giving wealthy time to hide money again

Matthew712

Public sector pay increases always followed after inflation. Pay inflation was caused by greed in the private sector.

Powerhouse

ateam wrote: »

Doesn't that money come from the private sector, sort of different?

You must be the only person in the country not to have heard that this particular part of the private sector has been propped up by a public money guarantee for some months now, so bank bonuses are indeed a public matter.

ateam

Powerhouse wrote: »

You must be the only person in the country not to have heard that this particular part of the private sector has been propped up by a public money guarantee for some months now, so bank bonuses are indeed a public matter.

Ah jesus, I'm referring to bonuses prior to the guarantee. In relation to the bonus to the Nationwide person, they're looking for that money back.

Powerhouse

ateam wrote: »

Ah jesus, I'm referring to bonuses prior to the guarantee. In relation to the bonus to the Nationwide person, they're looking for that money back.

"Doesn't that money come from the private sector, sort of different?"


Sorry, your use of the present tense threw me. I should have known.

ateam

Powerhouse wrote: »

"Doesn't that money come from the private sector, sort of different?"


Sorry, your use of the present tense threw me. I should have known.

The bonus isn't techniquely coming from the tax payer though. Anyway, let's not get caught up in minor details that are unrelated to the topic.

This whole well they can bail out the bankers argument is just tiring at this stage.

dolliemix

ateam wrote: »

The bonus isn't techniquely coming from the tax payer though. Anyway, let's not get caught up in minor details that are unrelated to the topic.

This whole well they can bail out the bankers argument is just tiring at this stage.

Ateam - it seems to be ok when you use minor details to prove a point.

I'm referring to you basing your arguments on what you claim you've seen in 'plenty' of schools. How is it that you have such diverse experience? Your experience as a teacher, from what I read, is nothing like mine.

You show no respect towards SNAs and their role within our education system. Also, you claim that teachers are selfish and that permanent teachers don't care about anything except their fortnightly wages.

I really find it hard to believe that you are working as a teacher. If you were you would know, only to well, that no school could be run in such a way.

My guess is, that either you're not actually a teacher or you're very new to the system and haven't fully realised what goes on in the background and how a school is truly run. Essentially a school will not survive without the goodwill and extra commitment that staff members put in.

We have every right to feel angry, that we as educators, and our students are being used as pawns in a badly run campaign to readdress the economic situation. We've every right to express that. We are speaking up for students who don't have a voice. I have never heard of a school with more SNAs than teachers. But if that is the case in certain schools, there is obviously a reason why. Why do you, as an educator have a problem with that?

E.T.

ateam wrote: »

Secondly, the growth of SNAs in schools has led to teachers getting lazier and almost imposing the duty of teaching upon the SNA.

Thirdly, to fund SNAs for every child with special educational needs in the country would cost an enormous amount - are you prepared to pay higher taxes for more SNAs? Get real.

Fourthly, I do see a place for SNAs in Irish schools. I'm making the point that there's too many nowadays and in many staff rooms around the country, SNAs outnumber the teachers.

You have already indicated to me on a previous post that in some way I am unqualified to give an opinion on educational matters. What makes you qualified or better to contribute to the discussion than other people.

I haven't said anything in any of my posts about being "better" - I would never claim that I'm "better" than anyone else, so please don't post false information like this. What I did post was a response to your misinformed view that
(Originally posted by ateam)
"There are far too many special needs assistants going about now in schools, that is an area that has got out of control in the past few years." I think my post in response clearly pointed out how untrue this is.

What makes me "qualified" is that I am a teacher who has a lot of experience working with children with special needs, and with their SNAs, without whom they would not be capable of taking part in mainstream schooling. This is why I'm contributing to the discussion, I'm not saying "I'm a teacher, my opinion is more valuable than others", but I am saying that I'm a teacher, my opinion is coming from first hand, present day experience, and I'm trying to share this with other people, who haven't been in the school system for a long time, and don't know the changes that have taken place.

I completely agree with the post above from dolliemix, who also seems to have some actual experience as a teacher. Saying that teachers have gotten lazy and are almost imposing the duty of teaching on SNAs is just rubbish - I don't know of anyone who'd do this - my job is to teach - that's what I do, and I can't see any SNA taking on the responsibility of teaching while the teacher sits back and watches! Your remark about "many staff rooms" where SNAs outnumber the teachers is also absolute rubbish, and I hope that even the most anti-teacher posters on boards.ie can see how untrue this is.

Yes, I would be prepared to pay higher taxes if it would guarantee that every child who needs one would get an SNA, and if it would be guaranteed that none of the money would be squandered on helicopters for ministers to travel around the country etc!

On your point about SNAs isolating a child in the classroom, and all your other "facts", I'd love if you could post links to prove your arguments.

Powerhouse

This an interesting one from the RTÉ website for those here who claimed that going on strike achieves nothing. It seems that even the mere threat of it might be enough.

______________________________________________________________
ICTU considering Govt invitation to talks

[URL="javascript:showPlayer('partnership_av.html')"] [/URL]
The executive council of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions will meet today to consider an invitation from the Government to return to talks on an economic recovery plan.

If the Government invitation is accepted, it is expected that discussions could get under way by the weekend and the national strike planned for next Monday would be called off.

The action had threatened serious disruption, particularly to transport services, and in health and education.


But in recent days, the campaign received a significant setback, when members of IMPACT, the largest public sector union, voted against industrial action.

Last night, the Association of Higher Civil and Public Servants also voted 60-40 against taking part.

The invitation for talks from Taoiseach Brian Cowen has been welcomed by both unions and the employers' body IBEC.

The unions have consistently complained that the Government strategy to tackle the economic crisis has disproportionately hit working people and lower earners.

ateam

Dolliemix and E.T. can reject my comments all you like. I do think I may have exaggerated my views on teachers a bit but my underlying point remains the same. While I don't dispute (as I already mentioned) that there are many decent hard working selfless teachers in Ireland, I still strongly maintain that for a majority of teachers, the number one priority is their wages. NB..There is nothing wrong with that, 99% of people are the exact same.

dolliemix wrote: »

We are speaking up for students who don't have a voice

Coming out with this nonsense is frankly insulting at this stage.

In relation to E.T. you are not qualified to make a comment on SEN. You have a right to your opinion just like everybody else, you are no better or worse than anyone else. In fact, one could argue that you are completely biased.

dolliemix wrote: »

My guess is, that either you're not actually a teacher or you're very new to the system and haven't fully realised what goes on in the background and how a school is truly run. Essentially a school will not survive without the goodwill and extra commitment that staff members put in.

Dolliemix has cheaply decided to personalise this debate by making incorrect assumptions about me. Low, very low. I'm glad I've touched a nerve, maybe now you'll consider that not every teacher is a saint.

Edit..The strike has been called off.

Trotter

ateam wrote: »

I still strongly maintain that for a majority of teachers, the number one priority is their wages. NB..There is nothing wrong with that, 99% of people are the exact same.

What research are you basing this on? To make a statement like that then you must have read research, spoken to the majority of teachers, seen the majority of teachers teach?

Otherwise your argument is just silly. If you want people to take what you say seriously then why make such outlandish statements about the majority of anything??

ateam

Trotter wrote: »

What research are you basing this on? To make a statement like that then you must have read research, spoken to the majority of teachers, seen the majority of teachers teach?

Otherwise your argument is just silly. If you want people to take what you say seriously then why make such outlandish statements about the majority of anything??

Outlandish and silly? That people only care about money? What sort of world do you live in? There's a reason they came up with the saying "money makes the world go around". What is outlandish about it? Explain that for me.

This is an opinion based website, I don't think I or anyone else has to back up every point with statistical or scientific proof for heaven's sake. It's pretty much common knowledge, people care about money! Absolutely outrageous comment Trotter.

Trotter

ateam wrote: »

Outlandish and silly? That people only care about money?

No, that you can make statements about the majority of teachers which are insulting and unfounded.

I'm not biting on this one. For you to say that the majority of teachers only care about money is absurd because you have no basis for that.

Yes some people only care about money. Absolutely.

The majority? I dont know because I havent met them all.

ateam

Trotter wrote: »

I'm not biting on this one. For you to say that the majority of teachers only care about money is absurd because you have no basis for that.

Yes some people only care about money. Absolutely.

The majority? I dont know because I havent met them all.

Common knowledge dictates and shows that a lot of people only get motivated when their pay packets are going to be affected. The removal of the medical card is a recent case in point. I'm not going to be bullied into retracting my comments, I feel they are relevant and quite accurate.

Trotter

ateam wrote: »

Common knowledge dictates and shows that a lot of people only get motivated when their pay packets are going to be affected. The removal of the medical card is a recent case in point. I'm not going to be bullied into retracting my comments, I feel they are relevant and quite accurate.

You're not being bullied. You are being disagreed with for making statements about the majority of teachers which are unfounded.

You have stated that the majority of teachers only care about money, and you want that comment to be accepted as valid. It is not. That statement is offensive to me as a teacher who is not in it for the money. You have no way to validate the comment that the majority of teachers only care about money.

ateam

Trotter wrote: »

You're not being bullied. You are being disagreed with for making statements about the majority of teachers which are unfounded.

You have stated that the majority of teachers only care about money, and you want that comment to be accepted as valid. It is not. That statement is offensive to me as a teacher who is not in it for the money. You have no way to validate the comment that the majority of teachers only care about money.

Again making it personal for no reason. I already said twice that I am sure that there are plenty of well intentioned, decent teachers.

Trotter

ateam wrote: »

Again making it personal for no reason. I already said twice that I am sure that there are plenty of well intentioned, decent teachers.

I'm disagreeing with the statement you posted. Its nothing personal, I just think what you posted about the majority of teachers was absurd.

There may well be plenty of teachers who are well intentioned and decent, but I refute your opinion that the majority are in it for the money.

Nothing has been made personal here. You are entitled to your opinions. I'm entitled to say one of those opinions is unfounded.

You seem to thing that having an opinion challenged is bullying.

Conor108

So the strike is off is it?

Toto Wolfcastle

Yes the strike is off, which means there is no need for this thread any more.

Accusing mods (or anyone) of bullying you into changing your opinion is not acceptable. Stick to the topic in all further threads. Thank you.

/end