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Heuston South Quarter

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  • 06-03-2009 11:43pm
    #1
    JAMM222
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭


    just wondering if anyone on here has done this seems like a nice area kinda tempted to be honest i have read a bit about rent 2 purchase schemes and i am aware of the inflated rent and purchase but i am thinking i am paying dead money now and i see this as a way to get on the ladder
    www.rent2purchase.ie


«1345

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    #2
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    JAMM222 wrote: »
    just wondering if anyone on here has done this seems like a nice area kinda tempted to be honest i have read a bit about rent 2 purchase schemes and i am aware of the inflated rent and purchase but i am thinking i am paying dead money now and i see this as a way to get on the ladder
    www.rent2purchase.ie

    What ladder and where does this ladder lead to?


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    #3
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Over 420k for a two bedroom apartment? :eek:

    It's a great location and fair play if they achieve that price. It's a lotta money though


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    #4
    von Neumann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭von Neumann


    From what I know they've only built phase 1 so far, with phase two being stalled, so just be aware this could be a building site for years to come....and there are more apartments to be built.


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    #5
    JAMM222
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭JAMM222


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    What ladder and where does this ladder lead to?

    the property ladder! the way i see it is that i will pay roughly 50k rent over the next 3 years therefore the purchase price will be 370k in 3 years time if the market goes down more than 10% they will take another 10% off the original purchase price therefore the price will then be 420-50-42=328k which seems like a fair price for a 2 bed apartment that is smack bang in the city centre then the market turns around in 2015 and i sell it for 450k and i buy a house!


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    #6
    spockety
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭spockety


    JAMM222 wrote: »
    the property ladder! the way i see it is that i will pay roughly 50k rent over the next 3 years therefore the purchase price will be 370k in 3 years time if the market goes down more than 10% they will take another 10% off the original purchase price therefore the price will then be 420-50-42=328k which seems like a fair price for a 2 bed apartment that is smack bang in the city centre then the market turns around in 2015 and i sell it for 450k and i buy a house!

    Please post regular updates on how that goes for you. It will make for fascinating reading.

    :eek:


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    #7
    JAMM222
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭JAMM222


    spockety wrote: »
    Please post regular updates on how that goes for you. It will make for fascinating reading.

    :eek:

    do u think its a bad idea?


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    #8
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    2015 is a lifetime away
    Nobody can guess what's going to happen and you are quoting percentages.

    50k rent over three years is over 1300 a month.
    You can easily rent 2 beds in Dublin for less then that, look around if you are paying that kind of rent.

    I go past it every day, well most days. I agree it's a fantastic location.
    But it'll be a building site for years, probably over 2 years at a minimum. There is so much left to do and office buildings to be built yet. Want to live on a building site?


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    #9
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Um, the "property ladder" metaphor depends on prices going up. Like, you know, a ladder.

    P.


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    #10
    JAMM222
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭JAMM222


    mikemac wrote: »
    2015 is a lifetime away
    Nobody can guess what's going to happen and you are quoting percentages.

    50k rent over three years is over 1300 a month.
    You can easily rent 2 beds in Dublin for less then that, look around if you are paying that kind of rent.

    I go past it every day, well most days. I agree it's a fantastic location.
    But it'll be a building site for years, probably over 2 years at a minimum. There is so much left to do and office buildings to be built yet. Want to live on a building site?

    fair point the building site problem wouldnt bother me too much and i know 1300 is a bit steep probably 200 too much per month but the money will be coming off the purchase price so its not a complete waste. they also give u a 3k ikea voucher which isnt much but its a start


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    #11
    LightningBolt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭LightningBolt


    JAMM222 wrote: »
    the property ladder! the way i see it is that i will pay roughly 50k rent over the next 3 years therefore the purchase price will be 370k in 3 years time if the market goes down more than 10% they will take another 10% off the original purchase price therefore the price will then be 420-50-42=328k which seems like a fair price for a 2 bed apartment that is smack bang in the city centre then the market turns around in 2015 and i sell it for 450k and i buy a house!

    Please say you're trolling. You think between 2012 and 2015 prices for those apartments are going to jump 25%-30%. Mmm, me thinks you missed the boat for the Celtic Tiger about 5 years ago.


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    #12
    ParkRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,026 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    JAMM222 wrote: »
    fair point the building site problem wouldnt bother me too much and i know 1300 is a bit steep probably 200 too much per month but the money will be coming off the purchase price so its not a complete waste. they also give u a 3k ikea voucher which isnt much but its a start

    I think you would be completely insane to go for this option. There are plenty of 2 bed apartments going for well under €250k in a commutable distance of Dublin city, and these prices are only going to go one way for a long time. If you are happy to live in a 2 bed apartment for the rest of your life near the city, by all means go ahead but schemes like this have a hint of desperation from property developers in my opinion. Hang on just a few months even and the prices will be forced down by 50%


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    #13
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    JAMM222 wrote: »
    the property ladder!
    The way the property ladder used to work is that you bought a house, and later on sold it, and bought a bigger house.

    Due to the recession, you now have lots of people trying to sell their big expensive house, and get off the property ladder. Why? Because they've woken up, and found that the property ladder is bullsh|t.
    JAMM222 wrote: »
    i will pay roughly 50k rent over the next 3 years
    That works out at about €1388 a month or €320 a week :eek:
    JAMM222 wrote: »
    which seems like a fair price for a 2 bed apartment that is smack bang in the city centre then the market turns around in 2015 and i sell it for 450k and i buy a house!
    IF the market turns around in 2015, your apartment may be worth €200k. You see, most places have dropped by a good sum of money in the last few months. In the next few years, this may shrink a bit more.

    Eh... I just looked at the plans. You're getting a 2 bed apartment on the out skirts of the city centre?

    Watching the video now. 15 minute walk to Henry Street? And I think a few of the bus routes it mentions have been axed.

    Because there is not many people willing to spend stupid amounts of money on houses, I'd say the blocks will either be empty for a while to come, or they'll drop the price, and you'll be kicking yourself. Remember: they say on the website you'll be buying at today's prices.

    =-=

    http://www.daft.ie/1428684
    For €269 you'll get a 2 bed apartment in Dublin 1. About 5 minutes away from Connolly Train Station.

    http://www.daft.ie/1382850
    Very near the one above, another 2 bed, for €250k

    Both of these places are built. The one you linked to... there is a lot of computer imagery used. If lots of those apartments stayed empty, I wouldn't see many shops moving in.

    Me, personally, would go for a house outside Dublin. If you want to stay within Dublin, that's up to you. I know a few people who lived in Dublin, and see this as a continuation of life. I grew up in an estate with miles of green fields nearby, so couldn't live in an apartment block long term. The two places I linked above are near to Connolly Station, and near to the shops, etc. The place you linked to is far far away from Dublin city centre. It may be god for €200k, but not for the price you got quoted.


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    #14
    dazberry
    Registered Users Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭dazberry


    the_syco wrote: »
    http://www.daft.ie/1382850
    Very near the one above, another 2 bed, for €250k

    I have infront of me the Launch Price List from November 2005 for Castleforbes Sq., which quotes 1 beds from €290k (to €330k), 2 beds from €370k (to €450k) and 3 beds from €455k (to €550k) - crazy money.

    OP, that's a crazy price, if you want to live in the area there are far cheaper properties near by.

    D.


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    #15
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,304 ✭✭✭markpb


    JAMM222 wrote: »
    fair point the building site problem wouldnt bother me too much

    Don't underestimate this problem. You'll be putting up with loud noise all day long, some evenings and some weekends. If you work 9-5, that's not a problem but if you're off sick or change to shift work, it will bug you.

    You'll also put up with roads and car parks not being surfaced and damaging your tires and the underside of your car. You'll have entrances blocked as builders need access to somewhere or have to dig up a road to put down new ducting.

    But most of all, if you move in before the place is filled, there will be huge problems with you management company and service charge. Unless the builder is more honest that the rest, they won't contribute to the service charge, there won't be enough money to pay for services, the service charge will skyrocket and things will go rapidly downhill from there. This is the reality for many people who have bought apartments that aren't completed.


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    #16
    JAMM222
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭JAMM222


    went to have a look and i have to say i am impressed they are quite big and the one that we are interested in is 410k and i reckon we could get it for 390ish which i admit is a bit high but by the time we get round to buying it we will be paying around 340k which isnt too bad and we can get a valuer to go in before we by it and if it has dropped the developer will give us up to 10% off which would leave it at around 300k and worst case we can break the lease after 18 months and walk away! has anyone anything positive to say?


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    #17
    JAMM222
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭JAMM222


    markpb wrote: »
    Don't underestimate this problem. You'll be putting up with loud noise all day long, some evenings and some weekends. If you work 9-5, that's not a problem but if you're off sick or change to shift work, it will bug you.

    You'll also put up with roads and car parks not being surfaced and damaging your tires and the underside of your car. You'll have entrances blocked as builders need access to somewhere or have to dig up a road to put down new ducting.

    But most of all, if you move in before the place is filled, there will be huge problems with you management company and service charge. Unless the builder is more honest that the rest, they won't contribute to the service charge, there won't be enough money to pay for services, the service charge will skyrocket and things will go rapidly downhill from there. This is the reality for many people who have bought apartments that aren't completed.

    to your first point i do work 9-6 so the noise shouldnt bother me

    to your second point i was in the car park today and there are no problems there, besides i hardly think making such a decision will some down to wear and tear of car tires:eek:

    to your third point i reckon the management company will bend over backwards for me as at the end of the 3 years the want me to buy the place and if i have had difficulties i will think about walking away which isnt in their best interests!

    thanks for your thoughts, i do appreciate your feedback but i dont think those reasons are enough to put me off.


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    #18
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,304 ✭✭✭markpb


    JAMM222 wrote: »
    to your third point i reckon the management company will bend over backwards for me as at the end of the 3 years the want me to buy the place and if i have had difficulties i will think about walking away which isnt in their best interests!

    The management company is made up of the owners, not the developer. They won't be bending over backward to do anything - if the money isn't there, services won't be provided. Simple as. If you're planning on buying an apartment, you need to educate yourself on management companies, lease agreements and service charges or you'll get stung.

    At the end of the day, this is your choice. It could go well, it could go badly. You're not listening to anyone's points, you seem to want someone here to validate your decision for you so I'm going to do that for you. I bought my apartment in late 2005 when prices were just below the pinnacle. I paid 248k which was 50k below the market for a 2 bed apartment in Dublin. Between renting one room to a friend, interest rate decreases and TRS deductions, I now pay 720 a month for an apartment I love, in an area I love. We have huge management company problems and it no longer suits for getting to work (a problem you're less likely to have) but I still love it. The price doesn't matter, the market value doesn't matter, it's my place and I'm happy there. If the same happens you, that's all that matters.


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    #19
    JAMM222
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭JAMM222


    markpb wrote: »
    The management company is made up of the owners, not the developer. They won't be bending over backward to do anything - if the money isn't there, services won't be provided. Simple as. If you're planning on buying an apartment, you need to educate yourself on management companies, lease agreements and service charges or you'll get stung.

    At the end of the day, this is your choice. It could go well, it could go badly. You're not listening to anyone's points, you seem to want someone here to validate your decision for you so I'm going to do that for you. I bought my apartment in late 2005 when prices were just below the pinnacle. I paid 248k which was 50k below the market for a 2 bed apartment in Dublin. Between renting one room to a friend, interest rate decreases and TRS deductions, I now pay 720 a month for an apartment I love, in an area I love. We have huge management company problems and it no longer suits for getting to work (a problem you're less likely to have) but I still love it. The price doesn't matter, the market value doesn't matter, it's my place and I'm happy there. If the same happens you, that's all that matters.


    i agree with u i reckon this place is right for me and mrs jamm just a bit skeptical thats why i started the thread to get peoples opinions and i really appreciate your input and your last line is what i am trying to achieve by doing this

    cheers

    jamm


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    #20
    bobbbb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 507 ✭✭✭bobbbb


    Nobody knows what will happen a few years down the line. And anyone who thinks they do should just be ignored as they couldnt possibly know.
    Some think prices will fall forever and others think we are near the bottom of the cycle now. It was the same at the top of the market. Nobody really knew when it would turn.

    This could be worth a gamble and pay off, but you dont know for sure.
    Would you rent that apartment at the price advertised if you werent buying?
    Or would you look for somewhere with cheaper prices.


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    #21
    JAMM222
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭JAMM222


    bobbbb wrote: »
    Nobody knows what will happen a few years down the line. And anyone who thinks they do should just be ignored as they couldnt possibly know.
    Some think prices will fall forever and others think we are near the bottom of the cycle now. It was the same at the top of the market. Nobody really knew when it would turn.

    This could be worth a gamble and pay off, but you dont know for sure.
    Would you rent that apartment at the price advertised if you werent buying?
    Or would you look for somewhere with cheaper prices.

    true... but unfortunately the whole property game is a gamble i see this a a big gamble that i have an option not to take in 3 years time iif the market goes against me. The place we are going for has a rent of 1400 per month i think 1200 is probably what it should be but its so close to work that we will be able to get rid of 1 of our cars which will save 650 insurance plus 400 in tax plus another few quid in petrol parking wear and tear etc...


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    #22
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    The price doesn't matter, the market value doesn't matter, it's my place and I'm happy there. If the same happens you, that's all that matters.

    I'm just curious how many people who said this are now those who are clamouring for mortgage write downs because of negative equity:

    http://www.politics.ie/current-affairs/48587-mortgage-write-down.html

    P.


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    #23
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    JAMM222 wrote: »
    has anyone anything positive to say?

    Well, you haven't lost your job and you still still have a chance of feeding yourself and your family over the next few years.


    I don't give you any advice. Do whatever you want to do. I only ask you do me this one favour - research everything before you buy. You do that and I'll be a happy man.


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    #24
    ZYX
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ZYX


    JAM222, this property is totally overvalued. The area is nice but the price is not. According to myhome.ie there are 24 3 bedroomed houses in Inchicore/Kilmainham area for less than the asking price for this flat.
    http://www.myhome.ie/residential/search/results.asp
    These are asking prices and you would probably get them a lot cheaper


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    #25
    JAMM222
    Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭JAMM222


    well its time i came clean went back there to have another look today and figured out that if u want a parking space its 100 euro per month to rent none of which comes off the purchase price in 3 years and then its a whopping 35k to buy so thats a deal breaker for me im afraid. thanks for all the feed back looks likes the boardsies were right again!


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    #26
    Smurffan
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Smurffan


    Jamm, been following your posts with interest as also considering taking a 1 bed in this development.....car space not an issue for me, but am still
    looking for another catch? Suppose it's all a question of having deposit now vs paying over 3 years in order to get better value......
    Agree there is better value in market but without deposit all properties may as well all be over the 1 million mark!!!

    Anyone else considering these, or already put pen to paper?


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    #27
    peter83
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭peter83


    Smurffan, I am considering a place here too and I totally agree with you it does seem a little too good to be true but the only "catch" I can find is that the properties are a little over valued. The developers know that the rent to purchase deal is going to really attract people and so they know they are in a position to rip them off a little.
    Personally I think the development is great, it has great potential and the apartments are beautiful and finished to a very high standard.
    I completely agree with you about the deposit thing. There are plenty of properties near by that are cheaper but they require a minimum of a 10% deposit on the mortgage which a lot of people might not currently have, me included and so without that and without well off family or friends to help get it, the cheaper properties may as well cost over €1million! Yes you could save for three years while renting somewhere else but after the three years you'll still have a very small deposit, only be able to secure a small mortgage and have to live somewhere that you're not that happy and only buying for the sake of buying. The market could slump further by then but it could also stay as it is now or climb again. I'd rather risk the market slumping further and be happy there for the rest of my life (I know I will be because I don't want a house, I want an apartment near the city centre and I know that will never change).
    No matter how you look at it these apartments are in a good area in relation to city centre, transport etc. I know so many people who bought houses on the outskirts of the city or in different counties thinking that in the long run they would sell them at a huge profit and move to the city and now they are in negative equity or bordering on it and they are stuck in the middle of nowhere being miserable for a long time! I would rather put myself in to this debt and be happy, I won't care if I end up in negative equity, this is not just an investment for me, it will be my home for a very long time to come. If it happens to climb in value, great, if it doesn't, so what, it'll be mine!


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    #28
    Smurffan
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Smurffan


    Hi Peter, great to hear I'm not the only person with no cash as deposit - or likely to have while prices this low!! Like you am happy to live in an apt and want to be as close to city as possibly can.....liked the show apt, know the area and like it and voucher to furnish it is a nice bonus.
    Am just worried that if prices slump further again it might be even more difficult to get mortgage in 3 years-especially if market value slumps below
    the agreed price (even including 10% discount agreed now) .... and as paying higher rent (even if is towards my own place) then is harder to put cash aside as "back up" should banks only lend me less than I need.....

    Possible that I'm doing too many "what ifs" and should just take offer and run and see how economy pans out in next 18 months or so.....

    Thanks for the post-don't feel so crazy to for considering it


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    #29
    catch88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 130 ✭✭catch88


    Can someone explain the 10% thing to me :o Is it: after 3 years if the price of the apartments is less than it was when you signed the contract the developer will give you 10% off the original price....or off the new lower price?


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    #30
    Smurffan
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Smurffan


    Hi - it's 10% negotiable (not garanteed....) off the original agreed price now, so at least that's something......per Hooke and McDonald they are paying the 10% into holding accounts in individual amounts....suppose as "proof" they can afford it.... They can now-just hope they always will!
    Have asked for a copy of the bank account statement for the apt I'm considering showing this, H&McD haven't confirmed when/if this will be available.


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    #31
    peter83
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭peter83


    The risk of the value decreasing by more than the 10% concerns me too but the way I see it is I'm not tied to anything except the first 18 months renting and I'm happy to pay the rent for the area and the standard of apartment. Its a little easier for me because I won't be doing it alone, it will still be tough though.
    If after the 18 months (or the three years) things have gotten significantly worse in the property market I walk away and I am no worse off than I would have been if I just rented privately.


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