Justice for all

Mr Tim Buktoo · 07-03-2009 12:13am #1

what a great feckin album. its the one album i can never get enough of. listening to it now. what say ye

Malice · 07-03-2009 2:21am

For me it's firmly in the middle as regards quality of Metallica's output. It's not their best and it's not their worst. The absence of bass and squelchy-sounding drums let it down a lot it for me. Having said that there are some cracking tracks on it - Harvester of Sorrow probably being my favourite.

nyarlothothep · 07-03-2009 2:30am

AJAF for me represents something genuinely weird but understandable in Metallica. They wanted to come up with new production techniques so they boosted all the low and high frequencies, giving a crisp clear sound. However why reduce the bass? Out of respect to Cliff I guess subconsciously, but the overall effect of these things ruined the sound of the record. Then they decided to use a trash can drum sound on St. Anger, to try something different. Fine but it sounds sh1t. And for DM they mastered it way too much, so much that there's clipping. Now this can be considered an interesting use of the over mastering dynamic and that the pops and clips metaphorically symbolize a band producing music so angry that it shorts out for split seconds in the form of popping/clipping, but it still sounds sh1t. Metallica purposefully destroy their production to be Metallica.

Mr Tim Buktoo · 07-03-2009 2:35am

come on, you always have to strain to hear the bass in most bands especially metal bands. metal band dont even need a bass. giveamanakick do fine!

Mr Tim Buktoo · 07-03-2009 2:38am

not sayin they are metal or nutin

Degag · 07-03-2009 3:01am

Their most technical album and indeed one of the most technical thrash albums ever produced... some really fantastic songs on there like one, blackened and dyers eve and some great under rated songs like the frayed ends of sanity and the shortest straw.

ShawnRaven · 07-03-2009 3:50am

Three words - Where's the bass?

It's in dire need of a remaster, and has been for several years. but it's marks the last decent album that the band came out with in my opinion. But it doesn't hold a candle to puppets. Not their best, but definitely not their worst.

Deliverance XXV · 07-03-2009 6:07am

It's by far my favourite Metallica album. Whilst it is in need of a remaster, it's my most played Metallica album and probably, album in my whole music collection.
I find it to be a strong album with no weak songs. If the album had bass who knows? It would never have been as commercially viable as Puppets, but the general public would have taken to it more.

Ps. Blackened is my favourite song on the album

Malice · 07-03-2009 12:08pm

nyarlothothep wrote: »

They wanted to come up with new production techniques so they boosted all the low and high frequencies, giving a crisp clear sound. However why reduce the bass?

Maybe I'm mis-understanding your point but how do you boost low frequencies in a sound while at the same time reduce the bass? I would have thought the bass guitar by it's nature is going to dominate the low frequencies!

Mr Tim Buktoo wrote: »

come on, you always have to strain to hear the bass in most bands especially metal bands. metal band dont even need a bass.

This is going a little off-topic but in general, no, you don't need to strain to hear the bass! The bass will often follow the root of the chord if the guitar is using power chords and in that instance will generally blend in to the overall sound. Other times it can be very percussive and locked-in tight with the drums. Trust me it is nearly always there! The bass can be a very under-appreciated instrument by non-musicians. Trust me, it's as vital to the live sound of a band as the drums, vocals or the guitar.

Back on-topic, I always find it funny when watching the video for One that Jason Newsted is periodically shown doing some runs on the bass which you just can't hear!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mqm3bO_pxA

nyarlothothep · 07-03-2009 12:28pm

It was just on James' guitars

Undergod · 07-03-2009 12:56pm

Agreed, there are only a few moments on the whole album where the bass is distinctly audible.

That aside, some great songs on it, I'm pretty fond of the album.

Sephiroth_dude · 07-03-2009 1:01pm

Its a great album one of favourites,its a great drumming album some of lars best work.

Sephiroth_dude · 07-03-2009 1:04pm

Mr Tim Buktoo wrote: »

come on, you always have to strain to hear the bass in most bands especially metal bands. metal band dont even need a bass. giveamanakick do fine!

If metal did'nt need bass anymore I would'nt listen to metal anymore,bass is a vital part any band,anyway and justice for all the song is a great song and frayed ends of sanity good song too.

waraf · 07-03-2009 1:16pm

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Its a great album one of favourites,its a great drumming album some of lars best work.

Fantastic album and I don;t like any of their earlier stuff. The drumming is superb particularly on Harvester of Sorrow but again I find the recording a bit weird in that the bass is inaudible and the kick drums click

Sephiroth_dude · 07-03-2009 1:17pm

I agree the kick drum click can get a bit annoying after a while still a great album though.

ShawnRaven · 07-03-2009 2:38pm

Mr Tim Buktoo wrote: »

come on, you always have to strain to hear the bass in most bands especially metal bands. metal band dont even need a bass. giveamanakick do fine!

Hang on a second there, are you actually trying to convince people (as well as yourself) that a metal band doesn't need half of it's rhythm section?

Crap, i've read it all now.

Malice · 07-03-2009 3:32pm

nyarlothothep wrote:

It was just on James' guitars

Ah, I understand what you mean now

. I think what they did in during recording was to scoop the mids out of the mix on all the guitars. I seem to recall that being referred to in a few interviews that I've read and watched.

Undergod wrote: »

there are only a few moments on the whole album where the bass is distinctly audible.

Where? Seriously, where can you hear the bass on that album?

seachto7 · 07-03-2009 8:12pm

listen to the start of One on headphones, and you can faintly hear the bass. YOu can also detect it on To Live Is To Die...

Malice · 07-03-2009 8:23pm

seachto7 wrote: »

listen to the start of One on headphones, and you can faintly hear the bass. YOu can also detect it on To Live Is To Die...

The start of One is gunfire and helicopters followed by the guitar playing the melody. Where am I supposed to be hearing the bass?

Also, whereabouts in To Live is To Die is the bass audible?

120_Minutes · 07-03-2009 8:39pm

malice_ wrote: »

The start of One is gunfire and helicopters followed by the guitar playing the melody. Where am I supposed to be hearing the bass?

Also, whereabouts in To Live is To Die is the bass audible?

you can hear the bass on one for a few bars before james starts singing. on tlitd its during the clean guitar part in the middle.

if you want an idea of what the album should have sounded heres my remix of blackened with jasons bass track turned up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Suqguox3dk

nyarlothothep · 07-03-2009 9:17pm

Bass really adds to the song, sounds a lot nastier and heavier

Sephiroth_dude · 07-03-2009 11:00pm

120_Minutes wrote: »

you can hear the bass on one for a few bars before james starts singing. on tlitd its during the clean guitar part in the middle.

if you want an idea of what the album should have sounded heres my remix of blackened with jasons bass track turned up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Suqguox3dk

sounds good,I can sumtimes hear snippets of bass every now and again but you have to listen very very carefully in order to hear them.

D.Q · 08-03-2009 12:19pm

The bass really improves it,

Metal bands definitely need a bass, i didnt even consider that was something up for discussion.

I think AJFA is one of metallica's worst outings. Or at least its one of my least favourite. As with death magnetic, I can hear there are some really good songs underneath the awful production.

I wouldnt be the biggest fan of James' vocal style on this album either. Dont get me wrong, there are some great tracks on the album, Harvester of sorrow, the aforemixed blackened, and frayed ends of sanity standing out for me.

Blackened was such a good opening back in 04. couldnt believe it!

Bobeagleburger · 08-03-2009 2:29pm

class album, my fav after puppets.

Sephiroth_dude · 08-03-2009 2:33pm

blackned is a great opener track im surprised they dont open with it more often

cedomination · 08-03-2009 3:55pm

120_Minutes wrote: »

you can hear the bass on one for a few bars before james starts singing. on tlitd its during the clean guitar part in the middle.

if you want an idea of what the album should have sounded heres my remix of blackened with jasons bass track turned up.

I was just about to post this

Here's another one

Malice · 08-03-2009 4:45pm

120_Minutes wrote: »

you can hear the bass on one for a few bars before james starts singing. on tlitd its during the clean guitar part in the middle.

if you want an idea of what the album should have sounded heres my remix of blackened with jasons bass track turned up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Suqguox3dk

Your ears are probably much better attuned than mine, I still can't pick it out even with the volume turned way up

.

Nice remix of Blackened too by the way!

Undergod · 08-03-2009 6:40pm

malice_ wrote: »

Where? Seriously, where can you hear the bass on that album?

As someone said, I think there are a few points in One, but I'll try make sure and look for them again. I was using a serious pair of headphones at the time, which helped, and I was trying to convince myself that it really wasn't audible throughout. I almost succeeded.

A7X · 09-03-2009 12:44pm

Smack bang in the middle of their albums for me. Some good songs on it ,(Blackened is my favourite) but overall I just don't think it's that great. IMO they just wen't for technical, with some exceptions, and that gets boring quickly.

Doctor J · 09-03-2009 1:04pm

nyarlothothep wrote: »

However why reduce the bass?

Lars insisted the bass tracks be turned down to the point of being in audible. Remastering it won't make a difference, the whole thing would need to be remixed in order to have actual bass guitar in it.

How come no-one gives out about South Of Heaven to the same extent? It was mixed with practially no bass too.

Sephiroth_dude · 09-03-2009 3:28pm

Doctor J wrote: »

Lars insisted the bass tracks be turned down to the point of being in audible. Remastering it won't make a difference, the whole thing would need to be remixed in order to have actual bass guitar in it.

How come no-one gives out about South Of Heaven to the same extent? It was mixed with practially no bass too.

I can hear bass in south of heaven

Justice for all

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