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Puppies in heat

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  • 07-03-2009 2:52pm
    #1
    Orla K
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭


    They are getting neutered but they are being let go through heat once first. How long does it last? And how can you be sure it's over. One already bled but is still acting a bit odd.


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    #2
    Munster Gal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭Munster Gal


    You can take it that the heats last 3 weeks, 1 week coming into heat, 1 week bleeding and 1 week going out of heat. There are variations so to be on the safe side keep your girls secure for a month. AFAIK alot of vets recommend waiting for a month after the bleeding stops before spaying to give the uterus a chance to go back to normal.


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    #3
    looserock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 302 ✭✭looserock


    Munster Gal wrote: »
    You can take it that the heats last 3 weeks, 1 week coming into heat, 1 week bleeding and 1 week going out of heat. There are variations so to be on the safe side keep your girls secure for a month. AFAIK alot of vets recommend waiting for a month after the bleeding stops before spaying to give the uterus a chance to go back to normal.

    What she said, except I think it is at least a month after the heat has ended and not just the bleeding.


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    #4
    JESSELVA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭JESSELVA


    Be very careful once bleeding has stopped also. Its after bleeding has stopped that she is most receptive to male.... anything up to 10 days after bleeding has stopped. We are currently trying to find homes for puppies resulting from someone who was caring for our house thinking it was ok to let pippa out into garden because she had stopped bleeding. Your vet will be your best source of information. A month from date of last blood show is the generally accepted time for consideration of neutering. Oh and prices charged by vets can vary greatly, so do check a few. I was amazed to find a 150 euro difference between our local vet and a vetinary clinic. Best of luck.


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    #5
    Gadgie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Gadgie


    All the vets I have spoken to recommend getting bitches neutered before their first heat.


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    #6
    JESSELVA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭JESSELVA


    Gadgie wrote: »
    All the vets I have spoken to recommend getting bitches neutered before their first heat.


    It would be ideal if possible, but anytime I ve asked our Vet over the years' , he has always advised against spaying before first heat. He has explained it by saying the dogs growth and development would be impaired. Have any other members any advice ? It would be great to avoid a first heat altogether if possible but one would not want to potentially harm the dog either. My Vet would not even agree to injecting a dog to prevent heat until she had achieved her first heat. What are other members' experiences?:confused:


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    #7
    looserock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 302 ✭✭looserock


    OP what breed is she?


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    #8
    Orla K
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭Orla K


    looserock wrote: »
    OP what breed is she?

    The one that went through heat is a miniture jack russel the other one one is a normal jack russel(maybe with a mix of mutt).

    The vet said that they need to go through their first heat. From what I understand is that if they are neutered before their first heat they tend to have a worse temperment than if their done after. I have also heard people say that it's better to let them have one litter 1st.


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    #9
    Sigma Force
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Sigma Force


    Why are vets saying that dogs need to go into a heat before spaying?
    I have never been told this by a vet and every single dog we've had (except one because she was 3yrs old when we got her and had her spayed straight away) has been spayed at exactly 6 months of age. Never had any problems with it either. I don't think it's wise for vets to recommend this because so many dogs are caught out by this and then owners don't realise they can spay the dog anyway even if the dog is caught out and yet they allow the dog to have pups (or cat have kittens) and then they get broody for more and just keep allowing the animal to breed (not in all cases but it does happen a lot).

    If people don't get their pups and kittens spayed/neutered as soon as is possible they tend to leave it on the long finger as well it's always one of those things they will get around to doing one day and a couple of years on, few accidental litters later and they still haven't done it.

    "The one that went through heat is a miniture jack russel the other one one is a normal jack russel(maybe with a mix of mutt).

    The vet said that they need to go through their first heat. From what I understand is that if they are neutered before their first heat they tend to have a worse temperment than if their done after. I have also heard people say that it's better to let them have one litter 1st."

    No offence but that's a load of rubbish.


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    #10
    Munster Gal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭Munster Gal


    I've never met a vet who recommended a dog to have a first heat before spaying. From the point of view of preventing mammary tumours it's better they don't come into heat at all but even if they only have one heat, the odds are very greatly reduced.
    Letting them have a litter before spaying is an old wives' tale also and agin I've never met a vet who advocated this either.


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    #11
    JESSELVA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭JESSELVA


    My Vet never mentioned anything about spaying before first heat affecting temperment, but he meant the dog would not physically mature,incidentaly, he also recommends NEVER breeding from a first heat as the young dog might not physically be at best condition for a litter.I ve never heard of it being advisable to let a dog have one litter tho.I dont think not having a litter would ever have an adverse effect on animal, but I do wonder if the first heat is nescessary from a hormonal and growth perspective. Iknow this is what my Vet is on about. I think I ll phone a few vetinary practices next week and collate opinions'. As I said earlier, it would be absolutely terrific if we could spay our females we dont wish to breed from before their first heat,it woud make life so much easier for owners and the dog population. ie EVERY puppy a planned and wanted puppy with a loving home waiting before its born.


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    #12
    Munster Gal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭Munster Gal


    So many people end up with puppies from letting their dogs have a first heat because they don't realise it lasts so long. The vets I've spoken to say it's best to have them spayed at 5 or 6 months old - I know some American clinics will spay as young as 3 months old but I wouldn't feel comfortable about that myself. The vets I'm closest to don't recommend the injection to stop the heat or the "morning-after" injection to be used more than once either. It's a tough one but another one of the 'joys' of pet ownership!!!


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    #13
    Orla K
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭Orla K


    Guineapigrescue wrote: »
    Why are vets saying that dogs need to go into a heat before spaying?
    I have never been told this by a vet and every single dog we've had (except one because she was 3yrs old when we got her and had her spayed straight away) has been spayed at exactly 6 months of age. Never had any problems with it either. I don't think it's wise for vets to recommend this because so many dogs are caught out by this and then owners don't realise they can spay the dog anyway even if the dog is caught out and yet they allow the dog to have pups (or cat have kittens) and then they get broody for more and just keep allowing the animal to breed (not in all cases but it does happen a lot).

    If people don't get their pups and kittens spayed/neutered as soon as is possible they tend to leave it on the long finger as well it's always one of those things they will get around to doing one day and a couple of years on, few accidental litters later and they still haven't done it.

    No offence but that's a load of rubbish.

    I should have been more clear, I don't know much about it(the dogs arn't even mine, I don't have any) but those are just things I've heard from more than one person at different times. The thing about the temperment might be about cats because I know with female cats they can get bad after being neutered.

    I wasn't talking to the vet but it's not saying that they need to be neutered they are saying it would be better, for what reason I can only guess.

    Also these pups aren't going to get a chance to have pups, they are either inside or out in the back garden which is fully blocked by a 7 foot wall. The little one refuses to go on walks and the other is in heat now and isn't going on walks, until after she's neutered.


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    #14
    Sigma Force
    Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Sigma Force


    "The thing about the temperment might be about cats because I know with female cats they can get bad after being neutered."

    No offence again but that's not true either. Have had many many a female cat spayed and it made no difference to their temprement.

    I rekon people are getting a bit confused as well, what people don't realise is that around the 6 month mark and sometimes a bit older dogs and cats start to grow up a bit and start growing out of their baby stage and because they get spayed/neutered around that age as well people think it's because the animal was spayed/neutered.


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    #15
    Orla K
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭Orla K


    Guineapigrescue wrote: »
    No offence again but that's not true either. Have had many many a female cat spayed and it made no difference to their temprement.

    I have had many cats some neutered some not and the ones that ones that weren't neutered were always calmer. That's female, male is different, haven't had that many male cats so I don't know.


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    #16
    ISDW
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭ISDW


    I have debated this with my vet many times, and they always recommend allowing a bitch to have one season before spaying. They do not recommend the bitch having a litter.


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    #17
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    The reason most commonly cited for letting the bitch go through one heat / letting the dog sexually mature before neutering is to do with growth hormones.

    Sexual maturity in both sexes changes hormone levels/hormone production and changes the animals' hormone levels to the "mature settings". This affects the physical growth as well as their psychological development.

    For example in male dogs that get neutered prematurely the so called "eunuch growth syndrom" can happen where their leg bones grow too long (and the dog ends up taller than normal), causing bone and joint trouble later in life.

    Vets often neuter female dogs after the first heat because the uterus is then fully formed and better to see.

    There are a multitude of reasons for early neutering as well. I don't pretend to be an expert on this , so I won't express an opinion in favour of the one or the other.


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    #18
    Top Dog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭Top Dog


    Gadgie wrote: »
    All the vets I have spoken to recommend getting bitches neutered before their first heat.
    And any vet I've spoken to has said the exact opposite - in fact one recommended letting a bitch go through 2 seasons so that her body can properly mature and settle down after all the surging hormones. With our girl it ended up that the vets recommendation didn't matter, she had to have an emergency spay. But I do know if we ever get another bitch that we'll seriously consider letting her body have 2 heat cycles before spaying (even if it is a serious headache for the 4 weeks-ish that the heat takes).

    As for the "should let the dog have a litter first" thing, its a serious myth and has long been proven to have no sound basis.


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    #19
    Beth
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭Beth


    Informative reading : http://www.doglistener.co.uk/neutering/spaying_neutering.shtml

    And The Long Term Effects of Spaying and Neutering In Dogs - gives increases and decreases of incidents of diseases depending on when a bitch or dog is neutered.

    The whole cancer thing - A small percentage of dogs suffer from the particular cancers that neutering/spaying prevents. They're not common cancers, and very low percentages get them. Neutering/spaying does not prevent all cancers - just particular ones.

    I've not ever been advised to spay a bitch before their first heat because of the effects of early spaying can have (same with neutering). Not just the physical effects but the mental and behavioural effects also.

    Delaying spaying a bitch and letting them go through one or more seasons, increases the risk that the bitch can suffer Pyometra and all bitches that have not been spayed will go through a phantom pregnancy. Some will show signs (nesting - gathering toys, lethargy, weight gain, extra hunger etc), some will show no signs.

    So my advice would be read all you can, then decide what is best for your own dog for its time of life. Generalisations of spay by or before 6 months arent applicable to living, breathing and developing dogs. Always choose what is best for your dog depending on how old, their behaviour, their physical growth, their mental growth etc.

    I'm all for spaying and neutering - at the right time, and once the owners have all the information needed to make the right choice, rather than the half truths a lot of vets push on owners.


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