Are Bret Hart, CM Punk & Rey Mysterio the only true babyfaces of recent times?

Space Mountain

every other babyface either regularly throws a barrage of punches in their matches, rakes peoples eyes, treats the ref like crap, buries their opponents on the mic, uses weapons, attacks opponents from behind and turns heel when told to etc

discussing it with a friend of mine recently after seeing sting attack angle from behind with a bat, hhh attack the world with sledgehammers and joe attack a man with a knife all in the same week i really don't think there's anyone in wwe or tna today other than punk & rey who since bret harts career actually represent being a good guy 100% to the best of their abilities.

thoughts???

Machismo Fan

Did you not notice CM Punk screw Edge unfairly out of the World title last year? Hardly face behaviour.

Hardly heel behaviour either though, as he said in interviews prior to cashing it in that he'd love to get Edge like that, to show him what it's like.

Space Mountain

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Did you not notice CM Punk screw Edge unfairly out of the World title last year? Hardly face behaviour.

have to say i thought that shouldn't have gone down that way but it was obviously a thrown together booking plan at the last minute to work out what to do with the money in the bank title shot after jeff's suspension

punk rarely punches guys, wrestles fairly, respects fans and officials and other wrestlers (even diabolical heels he's up against). behind rey i'd say he's the best face character by some distance.

ShawnRaven

Bret spent a considerable amount of time playing the heel from 85-97, he didn't turn babyface until a couple of months after Wrestlemania IV, which was in 88 and again in 97.

His wrestling style didn't change during that point either and still used a lot of closed fists for his strikes. It made for interesting TV at the time, for the likes of The Harts, Demolition and Savage who turned babyface around the same year, but continued to wrestle like heels.

And recent times? Bret hasn't been able to do a damn thing in nearly ten years, so i sure as hell wouldn't call that recent.

Rjd2

Erm you forgot Jeff Hardy

ShawnRaven

Rjd2 wrote: »

Erm you forgot Jeff Hardy

No he didn't, ladders count as weapons and Jeff tends to backjump depending on the feud.

gimmick

welcome back golfguy xbox316

callaway92

gimmick wrote: »

welcome back golfguy xbox316

was thinking the exact same thing..but this account was created before golfguy..has me wondering

CMpunked

gimmick wrote: »

welcome back golfguy xbox316

callaway92 wrote: »

was thinking the exact same thing..but this account was created before golfguy..has me wondering

Aw not this shít again :rolleyes:

To the OP,
yeah it seems you've gotten it hit fairly on the head with that one.
Kinda makes me think back to punk from yester-year, when he was a bit more aggressive.
Always thought he seemed better that way.

orestes

gimmick wrote: »

welcome back golfguy xbox316

callaway92 wrote: »

was thinking the exact same thing..but this account was created before golfguy..has me wondering

Did I miss a meeting where you guys were made mods or something?

Bubs101

orestes wrote: »

Did I miss a meeting where you guys were made mods or something?

Yeah, we made an executive decision in the other super secret mod forum.

as for the face question, CM Punk was a heel for large parts of his career, Rey is a good eternal face but he's just Steamboat 2.0. As has been pointed out Bret was a heel for ages and he wasn't the best face in recent history.

Sting and Goldberg would be my choice for best face over that time period

ShawnRaven

Bubs101 wrote: »

Yeah, we made an executive decision in the other super secret mod forum.

Oh god, could you imagine gimmick as mod?
Banned: Reason - I'm from Cark and I'm better than youuuu like!

Sting and Goldberg would be my choice for best face over that time period

I'm not so sure i'd agree with Goldberg there, Sting yes, people just instantly loved him, he also gave off the vibe that he cared about his fans, he never walked off on them. He walked on Luger to prove that very point, and the fans stood right behind him making Luger look like a whiny little b*tch.

Goldberg more shocked you into liking him, his matches lasted about a minute (initially), and fans got into him as his streak got longer and longer.

90s faces sucked donkey balls anyway and couldn't hold a candle to the ultimate face in the business, period.

His name? Ricky Steamboat!

DenMan

Right now Evan Bourne is a super face. Very squeky I have to say. Maybe a heel turn for him in the future.

At one point wasn't Rey Mysterio in the Filthy Animals in WCW! They were considered a heel group. Also didn't Bret get very upset that Sid was the champion in the WWF and called him "a fraud of a champion". Very heelish he was (except in Canada obviously), called America "a toilet".

gimmick

orestes wrote: »

Did I miss a meeting where you guys were made mods or something?

I was welcoming someone back. Nothing moddish about that.

Oh god, could you imagine gimmick as mod?

Your anti Cork agenda knows no end

On topic, Mysterio I agree with, and surely Cena ever since his face turn in 2004 would have to be included in that?

Bubs101

ShawnRaven wrote: »

His name? Ricky Steamboat!

Is that English for Bruno Sammartino?

AlphaMale 3OO

Kofi Kingston wouldn't hurt a fly either.

ShawnRaven

gimmick wrote: »

Your anti Cork agenda knows no end

Judging by your posts on soccer, it's much like your "Anti everywhere except Cark" agenda.

On topic, Mysterio I agree with, and surely Cena ever since his face turn in 2004 would have to be included in that?

Mysterio really has to fall into this category, he made one of the worst heels in history. And Cena has become the Hogan of the present generation, so it'd be insanity not to include either one really.

orestes

gimmick wrote: »

I was welcoming someone back. Nothing moddish about that.

The user in question has been sitebanned repeatedly, if you suspect a user is a re-registered account, report a post and detail your reason so that the mods/smods can look into it, don't accuse a user in thread of being a re-reg, it's not cool and is also off topic.



Shawn Raven and Gimmick, play nicely

ShawnRaven

Bubs101 wrote: »

Is that English for Bruno Sammartino?

Ooooh good call, i like your train of thinkin'

Space Mountain

ShawnRaven wrote: »

the ultimate face in the business, period.

His name? Ricky Steamboat!

completely agree :-D

the reason i wrote the post was because i recently watched bret hart's documentary wrestling with shadows and the care he had for his character and consequently fans really shone through. i just wish that all wrestlers took their roles as seriously (though not necessarily be as serious!).

watching jbl wrestle punk last night was a perfect example of a heel vs face match. the face outwrestled the bigger rougher heel before been cut off and taken a prolonged beating only to wrestle his way out of trouble and but for cheating which perfectly fit jbl's character would have won. the finish IMO was beautiful. how many times do you see guys rake their opponents eyes? i don't know if i've ever watched a ric flair / kurt angle / steve austin match where they hadn't done it. but it always looks stupid for two reasons:

1) because they do it in front of the referee

2) the other guy immediately recovers (maximum time spending selling eye rakes is i'd imagine 10 seconds. now have you ever got something poked or lodged in your eye? let me guess it completely messed your sight up and you were left defenseless for quite a while yeah? that's why the punk - jbl finish was the best i'd seen in a long while as punk lost the match because of cheating which wasn't noticed by the referee and was only done by the heel when he knew he'd lose otherwise.

off the top of my head mysterio distracting the ref to stop angle from submitting orton at mania 23(?) is the only time i can remember him doing anything that wasn't logical for his character to do since joining wwe.

regarding cena - personally i hate him as a face cause all he does is brawl from the get-go, constantly acts like a jerk to opponents and regularly beats submission wrestlers by submission despite his style which i think is something say bret hart or punk would kick up a fuss about backstage as if they were going to get beaten by cena they'd want to outwrestle him before his resiliency/power leads to them been beaten.

ShawnRaven

Space Mountain wrote: »

completely agree :-D

the reason i wrote the post was because i recently watched bret hart's documentary wrestling with shadows and the care he had for his character and consequently fans really shone through. i just wish that all wrestlers took their roles as seriously (though not necessarily be as serious!).

I utterly detest that documentary, it's so one sided and laughable and even contradicts his side of the screwjob in places (him thinking it's unreasonable that Shawn had to go over in Montreal, but yet earlier in the documentary he admits that he didn't like Dino Bravo and didn't want to put him over).

The problem with Bret was he took it almost too seriously, and that's not a knock on Bret as such as a lot of guys take their character a little too seriously to the point where they almost believe they are that character. In my honest opinion, Bret got too big for his boots in WWE, that when it was time to shove over, he couldn't handle it, and when he was placed in a company that made him do exactly that, he felt totally lost in the shuffle (which he practically admits in his second shoot interview from 2001, and in his book), only he'll phrase it as "WCW didn't know how to use me".

the finish IMO was beautiful. how many times do you see guys rake their opponents eyes? i don't know if i've ever watched a ric flair / kurt angle / steve austin match where they hadn't done it. but it always looks stupid for two reasons:

1) because they do it in front of the referee

2) the other guy immediately recovers (maximum time spending selling eye rakes is i'd imagine 10 seconds. now have you ever got something poked or lodged in your eye? let me guess it completely messed your sight up and you were left defenseless for quite a while yeah? that's why the punk - jbl finish was the best i'd seen in a long while as punk lost the match because of cheating which wasn't noticed by the referee and was only done by the heel when he knew he'd lose otherwise.

Funny you mention this... Hogan, the biggest face of the 80s and early 90s was big on back and eye rakes. Used to be a lot of fun to watch his matches because Jesse Ventura used to jump all over the referee on commentary for allowing him to do it. Ric Flair wasn't so much an eye rake guy although he did occasionally poke fingers into the eyes. Sometimes when the ref watched, sometimes when he didn't. His ballshots were always brilliant though, even when the referee saw it, he never called for the bell.

Red Sleeping Beauty

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Bret spent a considerable amount of time playing the heel from 85-97, he didn't turn babyface until a couple of months after Wrestlemania IV, which was in 88 and again in 97.

His wrestling style didn't change during that point either and still used a lot of closed fists for his strikes. It made for interesting TV at the time, for the likes of The Harts, Demolition and Savage who turned babyface around the same year, but continued to wrestle like heels.

And recent times? Bret hasn't been able to do a damn thing in nearly ten years, so i sure as hell wouldn't call that recent.

Spot on

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Oh god, could you imagine gimmick as mod?
Banned: Reason - I'm from Cark and I'm better than youuuu like!



I'm not so sure i'd agree with Goldberg there, Sting yes, people just instantly loved him, he also gave off the vibe that he cared about his fans, he never walked off on them. He walked on Luger to prove that very point, and the fans stood right behind him making Luger look like a whiny little b*tch.

Goldberg more shocked you into liking him, his matches lasted about a minute (initially), and fans got into him as his streak got longer and longer.

Bubs101 wrote: »

Yeah, we made an executive decision in the other super secret mod forum.

as for the face question, CM Punk was a heel for large parts of his career, Rey is a good eternal face but he's just Steamboat 2.0. As has been pointed out Bret was a heel for ages and he wasn't the best face in recent history.

Sting and Goldberg would be my choice for best face over that time period

Goldberg had the most briefest and most useless "take a piss and you'll miss" heel turn in WCW in Summer 2000.


I can't think really of an answer to the main question - Sting I suppose yeah. Has anyone mentioned Cena ?

Bubs101

Goldberg may not have been an eternal face but his first run as a face was the strongest face run anyone has had in my memory. The momentum was unreal