watching kurt angle in tna would be akin to watching.......

Space Mountain

robert de niro in fair city!

anyone agree?

Machismo Fan

Space Mountain wrote: »

robert de niro in fair city!

anyone agree?

Not in the slightest.

amacachi

Not at all.

Diabhal Beag

I disagree with you OP. Kurt Angle is just as poor as any of the characters on he TNA roster. But I blame the writers for that mostly

ShawnRaven

Three years ago, i probably would have agreed. Angle going to TNA was a huge deal at the time, and some of his promo stuff was funny as it reverted back to some of the goofy Angle of 2000.

Now though, he's pretty much considered a mainstay in TNA, although he speaks kindly of Vince and Co in his shoot, so if WWE hold the doors for him, don't expect him to turn his nose up at it.

Space Mountain

allow me to elaborate,

IMO Angle is one of the greatest wrestlers and performers of his generation but clearly needs a good director so to speak (i.e. good booking and good opponent) to produce bonafide classics,

on tna each week he's always the only guy worth watching amidst the endless shouting/brawling/comedy skits/interviews/throwaway matches.

unless you're a hardcore fan who can take a lot of punishment i honestly feel impact is unwatchable 95% of the time and seeing angle amongst all this crap really depresses me. i long to see him contesting classic matches like the one's he had with eddie/benoit/taker/rey/hbk etc and although i know he can have just as good matches with sting/joe/aj styles he rarely does as with the exception of three or four matches he's had out of about 20 with those guys all have been sabotaged by dire booking.

Machismo Fan

Little Shyte wrote: »

I disagree with you OP. Kurt Angle is just as poor as any of the characters on he TNA roster. But I blame the writers for that mostly

Just out of interest, how much of TNA do you watch?

Machismo Fan

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Now though, he's pretty much considered a mainstay in TNA, although he speaks kindly of Vince and Co in his shoot, so if WWE hold the doors for him, don't expect him to turn his nose up at it.

Though I'd imagine he (and any other TNA wrestler) would think twice after the recent Chris Harris and Christian Cage incidents.

ShawnRaven

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Though I'd imagine he (and any other TNA wrestler) would think twice after the recent Chris Harris and Christian Cage incidents.

There's a big difference between a multi time WWE champion, and midcard scrubs like Chris Harris and Christian. Sorry.

Jeff Hardy came back a year later after a bad stint in TNA, and remind me again what happened him? Oh yeah, WWE gave him a few title reigns!

Diabhal Beag

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Just out of interest, how much of TNA do you watch?

As little as possible. I gave up completely in February

Machismo Fan

Little Shyte wrote: »

As little as possible. I gave up completely in February

So you should have a decent knowledge of TNA, what would you change about Angle's character?

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Jeff Hardy came back a year later after a bad stint in TNA, and remind me again what happened him? Oh yeah, WWE gave him a few title reigns!

You got me there, but they did horribly use Cassidy Riley though and gave Monty Brown a stupid name. (Ran out of examples)

ShawnRaven

Machismo Fan wrote: »

You got me there, but they did horribly use Cassidy Riley though and gave Monty Brown a stupid name. (Ran out of examples)

If WWE didn't create you, they'll have little or no time for you, that's always been their way. Most people know this anyway (which is why the likes of AJ Styles was never bothered going over). It was evident at the Invasion storyline in 2001, granted all they got from WCW as a result of that storyline were midcard scrubs as all their big names were sitting on their guaranteed contracts refusing to work. So WWE got all the midcard jobbers and used them to propel their upper midcarders to the next level (Jericho, Angle to name two)

So if Angle came back tomorrow, WWE wouldn't blow it. Not with Angle.
Monty Brown, great as he was to watch in TNA blew chunks in WWE. I missed Cassidy Riley, by the sounds of things I didn't miss much.

But hey, this is the company who once fired Test while recovering from an injury sustained from working for the WWE, but still keep Chris Nowinski (hey folks, bet ya forgot about Mr Harvard, didn't you?!) on the payroll for doing jack sh*t year after year other than telling yanks to "Smackdown your vote!".

Machismo Fan

ShawnRaven wrote: »

So if Angle came back tomorrow, WWE wouldn't blow it.

A lot of people thought the same about Christian Cage but then Vince realised he didn't actually like Cage.

chopperbyrne

Machismo Fan wrote: »

A lot of people thought the same about Christian Cage but then Vince realised he didn't actually like Cage.

Christian did very little of worth in his singles career in WWE.

They don't give a toss about what he did in TNA and they've put him straight into a championship feud.

What did you expect? That he'd come back and headline Wrestlemania? :rolleyes:

Angle was a huge star in WWE. He went right to the top of the card after a year and pretty much stayed there for his whole time in WWE. If he came back, he would be used as a main event star again.

ShawnRaven

chopperbyrne has it right on the money there, and allow me to throw in my €2,000,000 worth...

Machismo Fan wrote: »

A lot of people thought the same about Christian Cage but then Vince realised he didn't actually like Cage.

No, the fanboys and the darlings of the internet thought the same about Christian, despite the fact that he did little of note in WWE prior to his leaving in 2005. Jarrett & Carter throw the NWA title on him almost immediately after he debuts in TNA in an abortion of an attempt to give him credibility as a main event player.

There were two significant flaws with that logic.

1) He beat Jarrett for the title. At that time, the jaded Florida crowd were yellining "Drop the title" week after week thanks to being absolutely bored of Jarrett's reign of Verne Gagne proportions! They could have put the belt on Shark Boy and he'd have been just as over, as long as it wasn't Jarrett winning the belt.

2) During the same time, TNA were doing everything they could to convinced the world, and themselves that they were a legit threat to Vince McMahon and his boys. No don't get me wrong, you know that from 2007 up until summer of 2008 before i stopped watching wrestling on a week to week basis, that I would be one of the first to defend TNA because I actually preferred what I was seeing rather than the John Cena show week in and week out in 2006. But Vince never saw TNA has a threat. He doesn't even see them as competition. If he snag's competition from TNA, it's to rub their noses in it. Not because he feels the WWE are under threat.

Just because TNA tell wrestling fans that Christian is a main event player, does not make it so. We're talking two completely different leagues. And for what it's worth, i enjoyed Christian's stuff in TNA, i really did. But he'll never be a main event player in WWE. After CP Munk's failed attempt at a main event push, Vince sure as hell won't listen to the internet for guidance or ideas either. Christian is entertaining to watch, but he's not the guy to carry the company, he never was and he most likely never will be.

Because if he was, Vince would have picked him over Edge years ago, stuck a rocket on his ass and shot him to the moon.

Machismo Fan

But look at the reactions he's getting on ECW (fair enough he doesn't have much competition), he is hugely over already.

Rjd2

ShawnRaven wrote: »

chopperbyrne has it right on the money there, and allow me to throw in my €2,000,000 worth...

After CP Munk's failed attempt at a main event push, Vince sure as hell won't listen to the internet for guidance or ideas either. .

It was not a failed title reign, it was merely a test run for Punk to see how he would do as champ. He done fine, he had a good Summerslam match with JBL and ratings were not down from Super Hunters reign when he was on Raw.
It was better than Ortons in 2004 and he turned out ok:P

ShawnRaven

Rjd2 wrote: »

It was not a failed title reign, it was merely a test run for Punk to see how he would do as champ. He done fine, he had a good Summerslam match with JBL and ratings were not down from Super Hunters reign when he was on Raw.
It was better than Ortons in 2004 and he turned out ok:P

You keep telling yourself that.
Punk did anything but fine, TV ratings tanked on a week by week basis (go back and look at the threads from around that time, rovert and Fozzy provided a lot of really good info from Meltzer regarding it), he got a good crowd reaction, like Christian is getting now.

But you know as well as i do, that appreciation doesn't pay the bills.
Orton's reign would have been and should have been a lot better in 2004, as should have Eddie Guerrero's, but that's a whole different story. Orton's farce of a face turn screwed that up.

ShawnRaven

Machismo Fan wrote: »

But look at the reactions he's getting on ECW (fair enough he doesn't have much competition), he is hugely over already.

I never said he wasn't over, he was always over. I said he's got no main event credibility in the big leagues, because he doesn't. Which is why they stuck him on a glorified televised developmental territory.

Rjd2

ShawnRaven wrote: »

You keep telling yourself that.
Punk did anything but fine, TV ratings tanked on a week by week basis (go back and look at the threads from around that time, rovert and Fozzy provided a lot of really good info from Meltzer regarding it), he got a good crowd reaction, like Christian is getting now.
.

2008 ratings......

2008 WWE Television Ratings

WWE RAW Ratings
- January 7: 3.2
- January 14: 3.6
- January 21: 3.5
- January 28: 3.9
- February 4: 3.6
- February 11: 3.4
- February 18: 4.0
- February 25: 3.5
- March 3: 3.5
- March 10: 3.6
- March 17: 3.6
- March 24: 3.4
- March 31: 3.9
- April 7: 3.3
- April 14: 3.2
- April 21: 3.0
- April 28: 3.3
- May 5: 3.2
- May 12: 3.3
- May 19: 3.2
- May 26: 2.9
- June 2: 3.1
- June 9: 3.0
- June 16: 3.3
- June 23: 3.4
- June 30: 3.5
- July 7: 3.5
- July 14: 3.2
- July 21: 3.3
- July 28: 3.6
- August 4: 3.4
- August 11: 3.1
- August 18: 3.3
- August 25: 2.8
- September 1: 2.9
- September 8: 3.0
- September 15: 2.6
- September 22: 3.1
- September 29: 3.1
- October 6: 3.0
- October 13: 3.1
- October 20: 2.9
- October 27: 2.9
- November 3: 3.0
- November 10: 3.1
- November 17: 2.9
- November 24: 3.3
- December 1: 3.4
- December 8: 3.2
- December 15: 3.3
- December 22: 3.2
- December 29: 3.5

I bolded the Raw episodes where punk was champ, not that dreadful, at all.:P It only slipped under 3 twice, but even Hunter and Batista had to deal with that. He had of course the NFL to deal with as well which is a ratings killer. Jericho as champ
I fear this is a bit of topic, so back to Kurt, I honestly think that since he has being so polite to Vince that he is probably angling for a final return to WWE. Punk will bury him when he gets thei;)

ShawnRaven

Rjd2 wrote: »

2008 ratings......

I bolded the Raw episodes where punk was champ, not that dreadful, at all.:P It only slipped under 3 twice, but even Hunter and Batista had to deal with that. He had of course the NFL to deal with as well which is a ratings killer. Jericho as champ

You notice anything else about that list you posted? THE STEADY DECLINE!
I do hear what you're saying, but HHH and Batista had proven track records with the title, something CP Munk didn't have, and neither does Christian.

I fear this is a bit of topic, so back to Kurt, I honestly think that since he has being so polite to Vince that he is probably angling for a final return to WWE. Punk will bury him when he gets thei;)

Seriously, with some of the stuff you've posted in the last six months, i honestly think you live in your own delusions!

callaway92

Those ratings at the end of the year prove Cena is a huge draw.

Rjd2

ShawnRaven wrote: »

You notice anything else about that list you posted? THE STEADY DECLINE!
I do hear what you're saying, but HHH and Batista had proven track records with the title, something CP Munk didn't have, and neither does Christian.



Seriously, with some of the stuff you've posted in the last six months, i honestly think you live in your own delusions!

To be fair it was solid enough, apart from the last few weeks, which did drop I admit. Their is potential to be exploited though you must admit, midcarder for life like Benjamin? I doubt that.
I think we are off topic though so the Punk talk can be put on the backburner till he cashes in MITB after killing Hunter and Orton at Mania:cool:

ShawnRaven

Rjd2 wrote: »

To be fair it was solid enough, apart from the last few weeks, which did drop I admit. Their is potential to be exploited though you must admit, midcarder for life like Benjamin? I doubt that.
I think we are off topic though so the Punk talk can be put on the backburner till he cashes in MITB after killing Hunter and Orton at Mania:cool:

You so remind me of MNG about two years ago, and look how mad he's gone since. So old buddy, old pal, stock up on the white coats and big nets, because your hopes are about to go right down the toilet, along with the careers of MVP, Matt Hardy and CP Munk!

Back on topic, I still stand by my comments that WWE would stick a rocket on his ass in terms of pushing, just on what he does for business alone. I just don't think Kurt is in any fit physical (and at times mental) condition to hack their road schedule.

pingu_girl

Space Mountain wrote: »

watching kurt angle in tna would be akin to watching.......robert de niro in fair city!

anyone agree?

I have no idea what the word akin is supposed to mean so unfortunatly your question makes no sense to me.

But Kurt Angle does have the loveliest bum in all of professional wrestling :pac:

Degag

pingu_girl wrote: »

I have no idea what the word akin is supposed to mean so unfortunatly your question makes no sense to me.

But Kurt Angle does have the loveliest bum in all of professional wrestling :pac:

akin = similar

pingu_girl

Degag wrote: »

akin = similar

Pardon me, I'm thick.

To be fair though if there was ever one man who could make those rotten shiny navy tracksuit bottoms look half day-cent........

Bubs101

Comparing Christian to Angle is stupid. Angle is one the best wrestler of his generation, a genuine athlete, good on the mic and able to generate unreal heat. Christian is a great seller and has a loyal niche following but Angle is just on another level. Always gives 100% and can get a great match out of anyone

the flananator

I think watching Robert De Niro in Fair City would be awesome. Straight up.

Machismo Fan

callaway92 wrote: »

Those ratings at the end of the year prove Cena is a huge draw.

Not judging by the Survivor Series buyrate.

flahavaj

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Back on topic, I still stand by my comments that WWE would stick a rocket on his ass in terms of pushing, just on what he does for business alone. I just don't think Kurt is in any fit physical (and at times mental) condition to hack their road schedule.

I'm not sure Kurt's ever been anything special in terms of a draw. Solid enough, maybe, but nothing worth Vince worrying about bringing him back. He did nowt for TNA's anyway. Even the Mania he main-evented with Brock didn't do the usual massive business if I remember correctly. (although I'm no great expert on ratings and I'm open to correction from those who take more notice of such things).

What isn't open for debate is that as you say, he's nuts and his neck is f*cked which are two good enough reasons for him to stay well clear of the WWE schedule.

greenman09

Wasnt his neck the reason he gave up wwe? Next thing i seen he was on TNA

EdK

Guys with dodgy necks dont do stage dives :P

ShawnRaven

flahavaj wrote: »

Even the Mania he main-evented with Brock didn't do the usual massive business if I remember correctly. (although I'm no great expert on ratings and I'm open to correction from those who take more notice of such things).

I'm not sure if it's fair to bring up Mania 19 on Kurt, considering nobody had a breeze what was going on last as it was the first Mania they had since the brand split. Also taken into consideration that RAW was still the bigger brand at that time (2003) and HHH v Booker T wasn't going to get soaring ratings.

On top of that, Mania 19 on later posters were actually using Hogan/McMahon to hype the event, they were still hyping it using the catfight girls during the event, as well as Rock/Austin. The two title matches, that should have been the more important matches ended up playing a secondary role in the entire event second to the "20 years in the making Hogan/McMahon" match and Austin's retirement match.

Planning for that entire event was all over the shop. Angle however in his first title run in 2000/01 however was a way better draw because people paid money month in and month out for him to drop the title because nobody wanted to see the goofy little sh*t with the belt in the first place.

What isn't open for debate is that as you say, he's nuts and his neck is f*cked which are two good enough reasons for him to stay well clear of the WWE schedule.

He should steer clear from the ring period. I don't want to see another Dynamite Kid for this generation.

Space Mountain

the flananator wrote: »

I think watching Robert De Niro in Fair City would be awesome. Straight up.

well it sure as hell would be a lot more entertaining than seeing angle in tna!!!

the reason i made the thread was because its obvious with someone like de niro and pacino that despite their legendary veteran status as all-time greats they often turn up in mediocre to rubbish movies and so like all performers are reliant on the script/director/advice they get.

which takes me right to angle. his promos and matches rarely make any sense yet god damn he's just so incredible at times in the ring and is always 100% on once the cameras start rolling that i'll always tune into impact if i read somewhere that he's in a ten minute plus match. the rest of impact is just torturous for me to watch. how many times can a company make themselves look stupid and deafen you with screaming, insane reactions to lame swerve turns and endless nonsensical cross the line vids?!?!?!?!?!?!

angle needs intelligent opponents & good road agents IMO to really be the best in the business otherwise he's just a mixed bag that nonetheless is the stand-out guy in tna.

(BTW i'm a huge fan of joe and styles - i just stopped bothering watching their matches a couple of years back)

mawdz

Well indeed we are all enitled to our own opinions but i must say from reading nearly every post everyone are wwe fans well i myself after 5years of watching stopped watching wwe 2 years ago as i felt it just seemed to get more and more boring after the split of the shows cos one show (usually raw) has a much stronger line up. About 3months ago i flicked on tna thinking it was another part of wwe and said i' see what i've been missing but ended up watchin the whole thing and have every week since.

I find tna much more technical, enjoyable and humourous. While wwe has gotton predictable and the quality if wrestlers (not wrestling abilities, entertainment abilities) has gone down hill. What happened to the entertaining, funny but still quality wrestlers leg. The Rock, Stone Cold, Mankind, The masked kane, the wwe hasnt produced any that would come close in the exception of cena even if i don't like him but he is still entertaining. So even though i doubt it will ever happen i'd love to see tna pass out wwe as they are fresh new brand and probably the first one to really push the boat out since WCW

ShawnRaven

First post? And a good one at that, Welcome aboard!

WWE took a big TV-PG detour last year, so if you think it sucked two years ago, i'd steer well clear now!

My problem with TNA is the amount of ex WWE guys in it. I still enjoy TNA and watch it occasionally, while with WWE, i won't make an effort to watch at all (Smackdown is on right now and i couldn't care less, for example). That said, if you enjoyed WWE in 2001, then TNA with it's roster is the one to watch at the minute.

Sadly TNA is in no financial state to even try to compete with WWE, nevermind pass it out. But TNA has been leeching off Dixie Carter's farther's company financially for several years, without that backer, TNA is as good as dead.

That said, i'd like TNA to last as long as it can. I'll probably get laughed for that (have done before)

Wait for Machismo Fan to come along to this thread, he's quite pro TNA too

mawdz

Ya i had considered the whole finacially side of tna never passing wwe but felt i was rambling too much already lol. i loved wwe back then but i just felt the roster split left one show less entertainin then over time the superstars began leaving. People are saying alot bout Christian and i no he was pretty big in tna but he'l always be and intercontinental challeneger like could you imagine him wrestling the rock or stone cold week in week out a few years ago. Not gonna happen. I wouldn't say im a tna expert but im enjoyin watching it and so hopefully i will be someday lol

ShawnRaven

mawdz wrote: »

Ya i had considered the whole finacially side of tna never passing wwe but felt i was rambling too much already lol. i loved wwe back then but i just felt the roster split left one show less entertainin then over time the superstars began leaving. People are saying alot bout Christian and i no he was pretty big in tna but he'l always be and intercontinental challeneger like could you imagine him wrestling the rock or stone cold week in week out a few years ago. Not gonna happen. I wouldn't say im a tna expert but im enjoyin watching it and so hopefully i will be someday lol

Heh, i like this guy. He reminds me of me!
At the same time though i'm gonna try and place this one back on topic before it goes back to Christian.

Whatcha make of Angle's stint in TNA from 06 to present day?

Machismo Fan

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Sadly TNA is in no financial state to even try to compete with WWE, nevermind pass it out. But TNA has been leeching off Dixie Carter's farther's company financially for several years, without that backer, TNA is as good as dead.

That said, i'd like TNA to last as long as it can. I'll probably get laughed for that (have done before)

Wait for Machismo Fan to come along to this thread, he's quite pro TNA too

Dammit am I that predictable!:) Isn't TNA near breaking even and making profit these days aren't they?

http://www.minyanville.com/articles/index/a/21368

Pro wrestling is enjoying some surprising success, with one upstart organization leading the way.

While the New York Yankees are having trouble selling $600,000 luxury boxes in their new stadium, the big-money world of professional sports is seeing fans find their way back to one of its guiltiest pleasures. That’s right, pro wrestling is back and it’s ready to run wild over you, brother. Ohhh, yeah!

“Wrestling is kind of a dirty word to a lot of people,” says Dixie Carter, the president of Total Nonstop Action (or TNA) Wrestling. “Here I am, a young woman not [originally] from the industry. I don’t represent the perception of wrestling.”

That she doesn't. A Dallas marketing and publicity veteran, the self-confessed wrestling philistine has built TNA into an entity whose numbers have absolutely defied prevailing economic trends. The league’s revenue has doubled every year since 2006, while their broadcast viewership on Viacom's (VIA) Spike TV has doubled in the past year.

TNA’s merchandise sales in December 2008 alone surpassed 2006's full-year sales - and at a time when salary caps in the National Hockey League and National Basketball Association were poised to drop.

Carter scoffs at the idea that wrestling is blue-collar, although TNA has positioned itself as an affordable sporting alternative. Its Family Plan ticket package for two adults and two children costs less than a night at the movies.

“At a time when people can’t buy expensive items, wrestling is a good way of suspending disbelief for just a minute,” says Carter. “It can be perceived as blue collar but if you look at our audience you have guys who work at a bank and grandmas and kids and guys getting their masters degree. It’s so much more diverse than people perceive it to be.”

While TNA has grown, industry leader World Wrestling Entertainment's (WWE) fourth-quarter net revenue dropped more than 5% -- to a still-impressive $125.4 million -- from the same period in 2007. Chalk this up, at least in part, to growing competition: UFC’s mixed-martial-arts showcase consistently breaks its own pay-per-view records with every broadcast. These figures, along with the success of The Wrestler, have even created a bizarre industry trickle-down phenomenon.

Despite reportedly marginal attendance figures, a wrestling organization called Ring of Honor recently announced a national TV deal through HDNet - and the Iron Shiek, a former wrestler whose career high happened more than 20 years ago, just signed a 3-year licensing deal for iPhone (AAPL) applications.

It all adds up to an industry growing despite an economy that's suffered more than its share of pile-drivers.

Despite Angle not carrying TNA to huge new heights, he has been key to TNA getting many TV deals across the world. He has been the focal point of TNA storylines for the last two years and for good reason, his match quality has been second to very few.

ShawnRaven

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Dammit am I that predictable!:) Isn't TNA near breaking even and making profit these days aren't they?

Wasn't aware, but TNA are going about it the right way. Took them several years to do it, but if they keep it up, they'll be around for years to reap the benefits.

Despite Angle not carrying TNA to huge new heights, he has been key to TNA getting many TV deals across the world. He has been the focal point of TNA storylines for the last two years and for good reason, his match quality has been second to very few.

Can't disagree there, Angle doesn't get the credit he deserves for what he does for that company, in and out of the ring. I'd hate to see him leave for WWE at this stage, WWE wouldn't be able to use his skills properly in the crappy direction they're in at the minute.

Machismo Fan

Angle's intensity in TNA is fascinating, his series of matches with Jarrett have been the best in recent times (that haven't been watered down by having too many consecutive PPV matches like Angle/Joe and HBK/Jericho. Angle and Jarrett have had two very different matches in 5-6 months and they still aren't finished).

mawdz

I think Angle's storylines are even better than what he had in wwe and his mic skills have benefited. He always shouts rather than talks but at least in tna his shoutin is makin sense. Long live tna i say. All it needs now is Dwayne Johnson to hang up his acting am.... what do actors hang up when they retire?? Their mouths??? lol anyway Get him to tna and get the rock and sock connection back together. Of course the name will be changed slightly due to copyrights...... Im thinking "Between a sock nd a hardplace"?????:D

ShawnRaven

Can we please keep this on topic regarding Angle in TNA, if people would care to talk about TNA discussion in general, feel free to start a new thread.