Shooting in NI army base

Erin Go Brath

Wheely wrote: »

I'd ask you not to be so flippant about the whole thing. Two young men were murdered, I have a brother the same age in the Irish army. Stop sticking your tongue out and have some bloody respect.

Respect for an occupying army, no thanks. I will not offer my respect for Crown forces while they remain on Irish soil. If you live by the sword you die by the sword!

jimmmy

Its sad that there are still people who condone the likes of the murders at the weekend. Whoever indoctrinated the people concerned have a lot to answer for.

Rock Climber

Wheely wrote: »

SO what!? Ignore any British infractions?

I just reprimanded him for using this sort of simplistic justification and you go and do the same thing. You can't fight ignorance with hypocrisy. The existence of IRA atrocities within the pages of AI reports is no way to answer an allegation that the British are guilty of the same. One doesnt excuse the other. As I've already said-its not a race to the bottom.

I was doing the same as you ie pointing out the futility of using that as you have to use it the other way aswell,it cuts both ways.
I wasn't advocating selective use.

As for Erin go brath's posts...they're away with the faeries to be honest.
No point arguing with closed stuck in the past minds.

Erin Go Brath

Rock Climber wrote: »

I was doing the same as you ie pointing out the futility of using that as you have to use it the other way aswell,it cuts both ways.
I wasn't advocating selective use.

As for Erin go brath's posts...they're away with the faeries to be honest.
No point arguing with closed stuck in the past minds.

Point out what i've written thats away with the faeries?

Liam Byrne

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Respect for an occupying army, no thanks. I will not offer my respect for Crown forces while they remain on Irish soil. If you live by the sword you die the sword!

Amazing! If you said "I will not offer my respect for Crown forces while they are killing people in Iraq", I might actually agree with you; I wouldn't respect them for that (but mind you I wouldn't go out and murder one either).

If a soldier of any sort attacked me for no reason while I was going about my own LEGAL, UNTHREATENING and NORMAL DAILY business, I would defend myself and attack them back.

But like I said, these 2 people were ordering pizza......what they did as their job actually has no relevance, and I've actually started thinking that having this crime highlighted in a politics forum is actually giving it a level of perverse "credibility" that it should NEVER have.

If this were posted in a "crime" forum, would those excusing/defending/condoning it (and those supposedly "condemning" it, yet trotting out that "but don't look at / examine / dissect what we did, look at what the other side did" chestnut that should have been consigned to the history books) be as quick to condone it. Others seem to "condemn" it as "counterproductive", instead of for condemning a murder, as most sane people would do.

Imagine - for a second - that the media hadn't reported who it was that was murdered, or who had done it. And THEN react accordingly.

Yes, there's an argument that the troops shouldn't have been there, or that they signed up for something; but as long as they weren't doing anything to innocent people, the fact is that they were there, with the backing of the people of both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland - NI is part of the UK until a majority of its "natives" say otherwise.

And thugs with guns and intent to kill shouldn't be there either. So the soldiers had FAR more right to be there than their murderers.

Saying otherwise is like saying that someone was "in the wrong place" when they're mugged or murdered in a dodgy part of town; there should be no "wrong place", because no-one should be mugging or murdering.

So anyone not taking a humanity view of this is excusing or trying to dilute the sickening aspect of this crime.

yoshytoshy

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Point out what i've written thats away with the faeries?

You are as much a part of Irelands future ,as George bush is of Iraq's future.
The actions in antrim will cost this country dearly ,thanks very much.

This guy is a blood relation of my family and I can clearly see the difference in his frame of mind and that of the killers in antrim.

There is absolutely no comparison.

Liam Byrne

Rock Climber wrote: »

pointing out the futility of using that as you have to use it the other way aswell,it cuts both ways.

Not in the so-called "republican" mindset, it doesn't.

British troops kill civilians on Bloody Sunday = conspiracy theories, deliberate murderous act, orders from the top, etc, etc.

IRA/PIRA/RIRA members kill civilians in Omagh, etc = British agent collusion, "accident", "unauthorised", British forces inaction after warning, busy traffic.

No such thing as treating like with like in any shape or form; trying to point that out is like pissing against the wind in a hurricane.

Wheely

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

As long as British rule in Ireland continues there will be people out there who will strike against it. Every generation since the 1790s has struck out against it, and it will continue until reunification. The partition of our state has sowed the seeds of the current problemis. When this problem is sorted normality will finally be given a chance.

I was going to attempt another reply......

Oh well, here goes.

Crown forces as you refer to them, are still human beings. Quite young ones in fact in this sad case. Respect, simple respect for the death of two young human beings is a fairly basic human faculty. A failure to exhibit such, implies some subhuman tendencies.

Live by the sword, die by the sword?

Nobody in this State, or the State of Northern Ireland wants or cares for more bloodshed. They voted against it. Those forces aren't "occupying" at least not in the conventional sence. They're presence has a democratic mandate, unlike the murder carried out on Saturday evening.

The fact that you think "as long as British rule in Ireland continues (which it doesn't I'm afraid) there will be people out there who will strike against it" is some form of justification is absolutely pathetic. There will always be people who think that the African race are inferior-slavery is still abhorrent. The vast majority of Germany in 1939 followed the Nazis-antisemitism is still morally wrong. So what if there will always be a minority of people who use violence and murder to express their views?

They're wrong.

You're wrong.

Serenity Now!

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

As long as British rule in Ireland continues there will be people out there who will strike against it. Every generation since the 1790s has struck out against it, and it will continue until reunification. The partition of our state has sowed the seeds of the current problemis. When this problem is sorted normality will finally be given a chance.

What part of "a HUGE majority of people on this island do not support this idiocy" do people (I use this word in its broadest relevance) like you not understand?

Do us all a favour. Point the gun at who it should be pointing at: the piece of **** using it or making excuses for it to be used.

Sadarse plastic republicans/loyalists are the reason there is a problem. Every other bugger is trying to make what was voted for overwhelmingly in 1998 work.

Wheely

Rock Climber wrote: »

I was doing the same as you ie pointing out the futility of using that as you have to use it the other way aswell,it cuts both ways.
I wasn't advocating selective use.

As for Erin go brath's posts...they're away with the faeries to be honest.
No point arguing with closed stuck in the past minds.

Sorry, maybe Im just going over the top to remain impartial!

Erin Go Brath

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Amazing! If you said "I will not offer my respect for Crown forces while they are killing people in Iraq", I might actually agree with you; I wouldn't respect them for that (but mind you I wouldn't go out and murder one either).

If a soldier of any sort attacked me for no reason while I was going about my own LEGAL, UNTHREATENING and NORMAL DAILY business, I would defend myself and attack them back.

But like I said, these 2 people were ordering pizza......what they did as their job actually has no relevance, and I've actually started thinking that having this crime highlighted in a politics forum is actually giving it a level of perverse "credibility" that it should NEVER have.

If this were posted in a "crime" forum, would those excusing/defending/condoning it (and those supposedly "condemning" it, yet trotting out that "but don't look at / examine / dissect what we did, look at what the other side did" chestnut that should have been consigned to the history books) be as quick to condone it. Others seem to "condemn" it as "counterproductive", instead of for condemning a murder, as most sane people would do.

Imagine - for a second - that the media hadn't reported who it was that was murdered, or who had done it. And THEN react accordingly.

Yes, there's an argument that the troops shouldn't have been there, or that they signed up for something; but as long as they weren't doing anything to innocent people, the fact is that they were there, with the backing of the people of both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland - NI is part of the UK until a majority of its "natives" say otherwise.

And thugs with guns and intent to kill shouldn't be there either. So the soldiers had FAR more right to be there than their murderers.

Saying otherwise is like saying that someone was "in the wrong place" when they're mugged or murdered in a dodgy part of town; there should be no "wrong place", because no-one should be mugging or murdering.

So anyone not taking a humanity view of this is excusing or trying to dilute the sickening aspect of this crime.

So you don't support British soldiers killing people in Iraq but you are ok about them killing people in the north of Ireland? Are you of the impression that British soldiers are in Ireland for all our benefit or something?

The British soldiers that are here are upholding British sovereignty in Ireland, which is obviously going to be anathema to the wishes of nationalist Ireland. They have commited countless murders in the north of Ireland, not to mention all the 'black ops' jobs they have organised causing huge amounts of deaths and mayhem. Saying they are innocents is completely wrong. You'd swear they were a bunch of Mary Poppins type dogooders the way you are going on.

gandalf

Well they are not the criminal scum that you are hero worshipping like some lovestruck teenage girl.

To be honest, the IRA (in all its recent guises), INLA, UVF, UFF and all the other pathetic fools that use labels and tribalism to tart up their criminal activities are all the same. They are all criminals. Most of us on this island know this, its just the gullible few who have the lack of sense who follow them who don't. As I said thankfully these people of limited sight are a diminishing bunch and hopefully we will not see what happened repeated because of their short sightedness.

This is my last post on this thread because as normally happens with a thread on NI those who cheer lead for criminals continue to spout the same regressive backward propaganda.

GuanYin

I'm beginning to think that these threads are pointless and that they aren't so much about discussion and debate as propaganda and soapboxing.

Championing murder doesn't sit well with me and I'm closing this thread and imposing a moratorium on similar threads until I discuss this with the other mods.

This may take some hours so if you REALLY can't wait til then to spew that hate (and I'm talking both sides here), got to helpdesk. Otherwise I suggest a walk... or visiting a loved one.....