Shooting in NI army base

Erin Go Brath

Offy wrote: »

Does the ceasefire agreement say anything about the British army spying on anyone (regardless of what group the supposedly belong to) as regards weather or not its acceptable during the ceasefire? Does anyone know? It seems like a silly thing to do if you really want peace.

The British Army don't want peace! Throughout their history they have broken many agreements, and will continue with their dirty tricks as long as they remain in Ireland.

yoshytoshy

fitz0 wrote: »

Over on politics.ie it was said that a RIRA codeword was phoned into the tribune.

First time to visit that politics.ie site ,I'd be reluctant to say the least ,to go by what people are saying there.
Not diplomatic in the slightest:(

fitz0

Its not a bad site. Its no boards.ie but give it a chance.

yoshytoshy

fitz0 wrote: »

Its not a bad site. Its no boards.ie but give it a chance.

When people have bias like that ,it's impossible to discuss things properly:(

SEPT 23 1989

what brave brave people these gunman are true heroes of Ireland its a terrible pity the British soldiers were not armed to the teeth when collecting their food

fitz0

yoshytoshy wrote: »

When people have bias like that ,it's impossible to discuss things properly:(

I guess so. Thats the sort a politics site will attract though. Just look at this one thread and all the sorts that showed up to it.

bmaxi

Offy wrote: »

Does the ceasefire agreement say anything about the British army spying on anyone (regardless of what group the supposedly belong to) as regards weather or not its acceptable during the ceasefire? Does anyone know? It seems like a silly thing to do if you really want peace.

I would imagine the British authorities would use surveillance in an effort to prevent an attack such as last night's. The peace has to come from both sides and if one side is determined to attack ( the so-called dissidents have never agreed a ceasefire) the other side must feel justified in trying to stop them.

Denerick

Sigh. Here we go again.

mike65

yoshytoshy wrote: »

First time to visit that politics.ie site ,I'd be reluctant to say the least ,to go by what people are saying there.
Not diplomatic in the slightest:(

Merle Haggard and Risteard would curdle your milk wouldn't they?

Anyway, we have a declaration, the perpetual loosers that are the "Real IRA".

I doubt the NI office/UK gov are going to allow themselves to be bounced into
an costly conflict at the behest of these tossers. So they may be dissapointed.

Poccington

Offy wrote: »

Does the ceasefire agreement say anything about the British army spying on anyone (regardless of what group the supposedly belong to) as regards weather or not its acceptable during the ceasefire? Does anyone know? It seems like a silly thing to do if you really want peace.

Spying? Every modern Army in the world has Recce and Intel elements, for you to imply that it's somehow wrong to use those elements is unbelievable.

Offy

Poccington wrote: »

Spying? Every modern Army in the world has Recce and Intel elements, for you to imply that it's somehow wrong to use those elements is unbelievable.

Im not suggesting its wrong, Im suggesting that getting caught has a tendency to provoke matters. Kinda like the American spy plane getting shot down over China a few years ago. Theres no media coverage of American spy planes flying over China unless one gets downed. To spy on a country/organisation/person is one thing but to get caught spying provokes a responce.

OhNoYouDidn't

Poccington wrote: »

Spying? Every modern Army in the world has Recce and Intel elements, for you to imply that it's somehow wrong to use those elements is unbelievable.

When they are treaty bound to demilitarise, yes it is.

Using the 6 counties as a 'soft' testing ground for other theatres is provocotive.

Lord Trollington

im not one for conspiracy theories i have to admit, but there is something not right about this.
Why attack 2 british army personnel, why not a group protestants in a bar rather than couple of young army fella's??

Richard

Offy wrote: »

Does the ceasefire agreement say anything about the British army spying on anyone (regardless of what group the supposedly belong to) as regards weather or not its acceptable during the ceasefire? Does anyone know? It seems like a silly thing to do if you really want peace.

Eh? The IRA called a ceasefire (actually they've gone a lot further than that now, as we know) and so did the loyalists. But neither was 'at war' with the British Army. The IRA/UFF etc are terrorist organizations, the Army is not. That isn't to say it hasn't made errors (and more) along the way but it is the Army of the UK of which Northern Ireland is a part. It wasn't at war with anyone, so it had no ceasefire to call, but Operation Banner finished when it was not required. Then there's all the demilitarisation.

But for an army not to use Intelligence to thwart the terrorist to others and itself would be silly.

Denerick

whycliff wrote: »

im not one for conspiracy theories i have to admit, but there is something not right about this.
Why attack 2 british army personnel, why not a group protestants in a bar rather than couple of young army fella's??

'group protestants in a bar' Honestly. The Republican dissidents may be barbarians, but they're not stupid. Whatever about killing British soldiers, tying their cause into a sectarian one would be completely disastrous.

I see a lot of parallels with 1919 here, at least with the way they look at it. Dan breen and Sean hogan got a lot of abuse after killing those two policemen at Soloheadbeg for a while, Mulcahy even later labelling it 'outright murder' (This was during the height of the Tan War) Not sympathising with them but if you read the Republican Sinn Féin press release today you'll see the emphasis they put on history. They honestly believe they can kick start a new 'war of independence'. I'd love to line them up against a wall and smack them in the face, though they deserve a lot lot worse.

Grudaire

whycliff wrote: »

im not one for conspiracy theories i have to admit, but there is something not right about this.
Why attack 2 british army personnel, why not a group protestants in a bar rather than couple of young army fella's??

Because the (insert letter)IRA are fighting the British presence in Ireland - enforced by the British Army. The thinking is that this is a war with the UK, and that they must be beaten out. In fact the Military and UVF are the only 'legit' targets

turgon

Erm, dont know if this has been said, but the Real IRA have claimed it.

Reuters

The same crew that did the Omagh bomb, of course.

Wreaking Bar

mike65 wrote: »

Looking forward to Sinn Feins response, it'll tell us a bit about where they are.

How did you find it and where do you think they are?

dlofnep

I think this will do more damage than good. I'm not going to shed a tear over the death of a British soldier; but for the greater cause, I think this will just reset the North back into a bad place with tit for tat killings. The greater Republican movement, and indeed the majority of the Irish people north and south are trying to embrace a peaceful solution to the problems that exist on this Island. If the Brits started attacking and shooting civilians in the North, then I'd be the first to justify this attack; but we have relative peace right now and we should make the most of it.

For me, the British army have always been legitimate targets in the North. But that doesn't neccessarily mean that it's right to do so, even from a strategic standpoint.

I'm up in the air about this attack. On one hand, I couldn't give a monkeys about the life of a British soldier. They have done their fair share of slaughtering of innocent people, and assisted in the occupation of foreign land. But on the other hand, I just feel that this is going to do more worse than good.

Offy

Richard wrote: »

Eh? The IRA called a ceasefire (actually they've gone a lot further than that now, as we know) and so did the loyalists. But neither was 'at war' with the British Army. The IRA/UFF etc are terrorist organizations, the Army is not. That isn't to say it hasn't made errors (and more) along the way but it is the Army of the UK of which Northern Ireland is a part. It wasn't at war with anyone, so it had no ceasefire to call, but Operation Banner finished when it was not required. Then there's all the demilitarisation.

But for an army not to use Intelligence to thwart the terrorist to others and itself would be silly.

I prefer not to use the word terrorist, its like evil. Both are a matter of perspective. My perspective is simple. Anyone whos a part of a military organisation, that kills a civilian is a terrorist to me. Im expect the families of the civilians that are killed by military personnel would agree with my definition.

Wreaking Bar

dlofnep wrote: »

I think this will do more damage than good. I'm not going to shed a tear over the death of a British soldier; but for the greater cause, I think this will just reset the North back into a bad place with tit for tat killings. The greater Republican movement, and indeed the majority of the Irish people north and south are trying to embrace a peaceful solution to the problems that exist on this Island. If the Brits started attacking and shooting civilians in the North, then I'd be the first to justify this attack; but we have relative peace right now and we should make the most of it.

For me, the British army have always been legitimate targets in the North. But that doesn't neccessarily mean that it's right to do so, even from a strategic standpoint.

I'm up in the air about this attack. On one hand, I couldn't give a monkeys about the life of a British soldier. They have done their fair share of slaughtering of innocent people, and assisted in the occupation of foreign land. But on the other hand, I just feel that this is going to do more worse than good.

I admire your honesty.

Wreaking Bar

Offy wrote: »

I prefer not to use the word terrorist, its like evil. Both are a matter of perspective. My perspective is simple. Anyone whos a part of a military organisation, that kills a civilian is a terrorist to me. Im expect the families of the civilians that are killed by military personnel would agree with my definition.

Have you heard of the US of A? :pac:

Offy

Wreaking Bar wrote: »

Have you heard of the US of A? :pac:

Had they something to do with it? Have they joined up with the RIRA?

gandalf

What staggers me is these criminals claim they are doing this for Ireland. Well what do you expect from the scum that were responsible for Omagh.

My sympathies go out to the dead soldiers families. I hope the others who were injured especially the poor lads delivering pizza trying to earn a living make a swift and complete recovery.

These days should be over and those that are spouting armchair republican rubbish should really take a close look at themselves as human beings and Irish people. In my opinion they deserved to be called neither.

Rock Climber

dlofnep wrote: »

I think this will do more damage than good. I'm not going to shed a tear over the death of a British soldier; but for the greater cause, I think this will just reset the North back into a bad place with tit for tat killings. The greater Republican movement, and indeed the majority of the Irish people north and south are trying to embrace a peaceful solution to the problems that exist on this Island. If the Brits started attacking and shooting civilians in the North, then I'd be the first to justify this attack; but we have relative peace right now and we should make the most of it.

For me, the British army have always been legitimate targets in the North. But that doesn't neccessarily mean that it's right to do so, even from a strategic standpoint.

I'm up in the air about this attack. On one hand, I couldn't give a monkeys about the life of a British soldier. They have done their fair share of slaughtering of innocent people, and assisted in the occupation of foreign land. But on the other hand, I just feel that this is going to do more worse than good.

You do realise though that this is the army of our nearest neighbour that you are talking about.
To carry that logic through in government , you'd be breaking off diplomatic relations,recalling our embassador etc etc.
It's also an attitude that would cause outrage in America,the country that used bankroll Noraid/Sinnfein and the IRA over the decades but doesn't anymore thanks to Alqueda spoiling that party.

Your post betrays an attitude still from SF activists that underpins the reason why I always make my voice heard as to the inherent undemocratic and dangerous nature of that party.

meathstevie

Denerick wrote: »

'group protestants in a bar' Honestly. The Republican dissidents may be barbarians, but they're not stupid. Whatever about killing British soldiers, tying their cause into a sectarian one would be completely disastrous.

I see a lot of parallels with 1919 here, at least with the way they look at it. Dan breen and Sean hogan got a lot of abuse after killing those two policemen at Soloheadbeg for a while, Mulcahy even later labelling it 'outright murder' (This was during the height of the Tan War) Not sympathising with them but if you read the Republican Sinn Féin press release today you'll see the emphasis they put on history. They honestly believe they can kick start a new 'war of independence'. I'd love to line them up against a wall and smack them in the face, though they deserve a lot lot worse.

It looks like Republican Sinn Fein is conveniently forgetting the fact that the War of Independence was de facto sanctioned by the people as they had in overwhelming numbers voted for candidates not wishing to take up seats in the-pardon me if I make a mistake in dates-1918 Westminster general election. This lead to the establishment of the First Dail which reaffirmed Irelands claim to indepence. The Irish People, North and South, have taken an equally fundamental political decission in 1998. They voted for acceptance of the Good Friday Agreement in overwhelming numbers, defacto taking away any mandate for armed action.

Serenity Now!

Denerick wrote: »

'group protestants in a bar' Honestly. The Republican dissidents may be barbarians, but they're not stupid

Given that they blatantly ignore an island-wide referendum where an huge overwhelming majority of its inhabitants chose compromise and peace, blew up Omagh centre and now this, I'd say they're extremely stupid, not to mention deluded.

amacachi

Denerick wrote: »

'group protestants in a bar' Honestly. The Republican dissidents may be barbarians, but they're not stupid.

They're not stupid? Parking a car in the wrong place and not telling anyone, leading to 29 deaths sounds pretty stupid to me.

I don't see how anyone can justify these attacks. Using terms like "Occupying force" and so on is a cop-out, either you think it's justified or not.

Thoughts are with the families of the dead and injured, lads probably tryin to chill out for their last few days before headin out to a bloody warzone. Some people just leave me mystified at times.

Dannyboy83

Perestroika wrote: »

Who? What drugs?
We have very little facts at the moment and this is all very fishy, so I wouldn't be throwing any sort of crap together just to call it a post.

The who = anyone trying to re-ignite a war
The drugs and the bank robberies = ways that criminals get money

It called taking a stance.
You should try it some time.

Panimaesh shto ja skazal Perestoika?

OhNoYouDidn't

amacachi wrote: »

Thoughts are with the families of the dead and injured, lads probably tryin to chill out for their last few days before headin out to a bloody warzone. Some people just leave me mystified at times.

While I don't condone the attacks or support the dissidents, I also couldn't give a rashers for these soldiers or have any sympathy for them.

Call centre worker answers phone, chef cooks meal, occupying soldier gets a bullet. Thats life.