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Shooting in NI army base

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    #182
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    History is ALSO littered with people who don't respect others' views and make claims like they should be "ashamed of themselves" for thinking for themselves and not taking sides or living down to what SOME people THINK should make an "irish man"......partly the reason that we don't have 100% peace on this island.

    TomRooney, if I said that any Irishman should be ashamed to support murder, would you accept that my view of what an Irishman should be was somehow better than yours, or that you should be ashamed ?

    I doubt it, but until you're capable of doing that you have no right to project YOUR views of what makes an Irishman onto others, or question their Irishness.

    firstly he did take sides by wishing these irish men get caught and by calling them scum and criminals, this is clearly the british standpoint, as it was against the hunger strikers the ongoing attempt at criminalisation of Republicans.

    you see i dont think any sane man supports murder nor do I.
    but there is a difference between murder and attacking a Foriegn military presence occupying your land, these men where soldiers, british soldiers on irish soil. you seem to gloss over this fact.

    i have every right as an irish to express my views as to what is a patriotic act and what is not.


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    #183
    fitz0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭fitz0


    No and Ive stated before I dont condone it but i feel no sympathy for them either.


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    #184
    andrewdeerpark
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭andrewdeerpark


    Unbelieable the way this thread has gone this was cold blooded murder of innocent soliders in reduced awareness peacetime mode, plus shooting the min. wage pizza delivery men on top of it.

    I guess its hard for IRA (great freedom fighters) to earn a living in the normal peacetime economy they need war, fear and intimidation to rebuild their gangster network. Why do a nine to five suburbia life like the rest of us.

    Remember the IRA's top men all made millions out of the last conflict, Irish freedom my arse, these are gangsters shamefully wrapping themselves in the tri-color.


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    #185
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    Ronan|Raven wrote: »
    Do you condone the Murder of these two soliders?

    it was not murder it was an act of war. there is a difference, get educated.
    these british troops where about to leave for afghanistan to commit murder. i am not a supporter of the taliban, but by yolur logic if the brits where murdered then they also are murderers.


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    #186
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    TomRooney wrote: »
    as for seeing conflict, you dont me, you dont know what i have or have not done

    Been watchin a lot of films lately?

    And where did I insult you? Was it when I pointed out that you weren't using capital letters? Are you saying you were, if so, look back, the truth is there to refute it!


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    #187
    Ronan|Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 8,146 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    Plenty of dissidents are finding work in the current great struggle in the south... the drugs trade.


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    #188
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »

    I guess its hard for IRA (great freedom fighters) to earn a living in the normal peacetime economy they need war, fear and intimidation to rebuild their gangster network. Why do a nine to five suburbia life like the rest of us.

    Don't compare those involved in what happened last night to the men who were involved years ago. There's a huge difference.


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    #189
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    TomRooney wrote: »
    firstly he did take sides by wishing these irish men get caught and by calling them scum and criminals

    That's not taking sides; that's recognising that murder is murder. If someone murdered an Irish person in cold blood it would equally be murder.

    Taking sides is claiming that one would be murder while the other isn't.

    So he didn't take sides.
    TomRooney wrote: »
    i have every right as an irish to express my views as to what is a patriotic act and what is not.

    You have; you do NOT, however, have the right to question someone else's "irishness" because they have different standards to yours.

    Because I'm 100% behind the gist of what was posted - what you seem to be objecting to - and I can tell you for a fact that you cannot question my irishness, because you'd be 100% wrong.


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    #190
    Grudaire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    Unbelieable the way this thread has gone this was cold blooded murder of innocent soliders in reduced awareness peacetime mode, plus shooting the min. wage pizza delivery men on top of it.

    I guess its hard for IRA (great freedom fighters) to earn a living in the normal peacetime economy they need war, fear and intimidation to rebuild their gangster network. Why do a nine to five suburbia life like the rest of us.

    Remember the IRA's top men all made millions out of the last conflict, Irish freedom my arse, these are gangsters shamefully wrapping themselves in the tri-color.

    Please don't tarnish the reputation of the IRA with the Óglach na hÉireann impostors.

    (P/R/O)IRA != IRA


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    #191
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    Unbelieable the way this thread has gone this was cold blooded murder of innocent soliders in reduced awareness peacetime mode, plus shooting the min. wage pizza delivery men on top of it.

    I guess its hard for IRA (great freedom fighters) to earn a living in the normal peacetime economy they need war, fear and intimidation to rebuild their gangster network. Why do a nine to five suburbia life like the rest of us.

    Remember the IRA's top men all made millions out of the last conflict, Irish freedom my arse, these are gangsters shamefully wrapping themselves in the tri-color.

    your comments are so deprived of logic its hardly worth replying but here goes.

    "innocent soldiers" is there such a thing...? they where on there way to afghanistan where they would have no doubt killed people, so there lifes as brits is more valuable than an afghans just because they are british.....there is nothing innocent about being a british soldier in uniform on irish soil.


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    #192
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    Ok, so you were sorry for the death of representatives and guardians of the Republic.

    But you have no compassion for the death of representatives and guardians of the Unionists.

    Your statemet, as written.
    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    No it would not.

    I do not see the equivalence of a policeman getting killed during a robbery and an occupying soldier being shot by a guerilla ??????, no matter how much I disagree with their actions.

    Are you 9?

    Are you a bigot?
    What you are basically saying is being an Irish nationalist/patriot/republican and wanting an end to the British military occupation of Ireland (and Iraq etc) makes someone a bigot.

    Never did I state that.
    Never will I state that.
    It would dishonour the memory of my granfathers and granduncles, of a large portion of my family tree.

    And I hope I will see a united Ireland, within my lifetime
    If you are asking me am I sympathetic to the synthetic sectarian statelet the Unionists need thousands of troops to prop up, the answer is no.

    To the political entity, nor am I.

    However, we will never reach peace as long as we don't speak with each other, have compassion for other.

    To the people, completely.

    Expressions of bigotry and lack of compassion simply push the ideal of a United Ireland further and further away from my lifespan.

    I can't support it, and I can't support bigotry.


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    #193
    Ronan|Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 8,146 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    TomRooney wrote: »
    it was not murder it was an act of war. there is a difference, get educated.
    these british troops where about to leave for afghanistan to commit murder. i am not a supporter of the taliban, but by yolur logic if the brits where murdered then they also are murderers.

    God bless you :) Those lads were about to go and shoot unarmed Afghans? You see the whole generalisation act can work both ways. As for the lads who killed them and shot Innocent bystanders.. an act of war by the brave SCUM attempting to drag us all back to the dark ages. The last acts of a dying ANIMAL.


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    #194
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Could someone please translate that for me? I don't speak 'youth'.

    I would translate, but for fear of one being inhumane and bigoted, I would prefer such an individual if they existed, to say less, as opposed to more.l

    People such as those, would do far more damage to the peace and ambition of the civilised, if they existed.


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    #195
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    TomRooney wrote: »
    it was not murder it was an act of war. there is a difference, get educated.

    I, and others, voted for the end of that "war", and had to stomach the release of some serious criminals on the understanding that they would hold up their side of that agreement.

    So it was murder; the war is over.
    TomRooney wrote: »
    these british troops where about to leave for afghanistan to commit murder.

    Have you seen their assignments roster or something ? Last time I saw crime prevention/prediction like that it was in "Vanilla Sky".....

    Mind you - bearing in mind your objection to taking sides - you'll obviously be 100% OK with some British or Irish authorities shooting the next "dissident republican" they see, because he's probably on the way to rob a bank or shoot someone in the course of his "fundraising"......


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    #196
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    That's not taking sides; that's recognising that murder is murder. If someone murdered an Irish person in cold blood it would equally be murder.

    Taking sides is claiming that one would be murder while the other isn't.

    So he didn't take sides.



    You have; you do NOT, however, have the right to question someone else's "irishness" because they have different standards to yours.

    Because I'm 100% behind the gist of what was posted - what you seem to be objecting to - and I can tell you for a fact that you cannot question my irishness, because you'd be 100% wrong.


    i never questioned anybodys irishness as many a time an irish man has been bought by the crown the name gerry adams springs to mind but there are many more.

    so by your standard, two soldiers in uniform being shot DEAD by two volunteers of the IRA, is murder.....? sounds more like an act of war to me.

    do you also consider the killing of IRA volunteers to be murder...?


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    #197
    Ronan|Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 8,146 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    I am thankfully from the side who sees tit for tat murders as a futile exercise. it achieves nothing except to further narrow minded views on all sides. With Murder there are no winners. One can dress it up under guises of an act of war or an act of defence on behalf of the british forces but at the end of the day it does nothing to progress either side except drag them down to the level of animals.


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    #198
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    amacachi wrote: »
    Been watchin a lot of films lately?

    And where did I insult you? Was it when I pointed out that you weren't using capital letters? Are you saying you were, if so, look back, the truth is there to refute it!

    yeah films thats it, the only place you seen combat was on your X-BOX.


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    #199
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    Ronan|Raven wrote: »
    I am thankfully from the side who sees tit for tat murders as a futile exercise. it achieves nothing except to further narrow minded views on all sides. With Murder there are no winners.

    Thank God some of us have evolved.

    Hopefully the bigoted will turn on each other within their OWN armies and solve the problem for us.


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    #200
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    TomRooney wrote: »
    yeah films thats it, the only place you seen combat was on your X-BOX.

    Have you seen combat then?


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    #201
    Ronan|Raven
    Registered Users Posts: 8,146 ✭✭✭Ronan|Raven


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    Thank God some of us have evolved.

    Hopefully the bigoted will turn on each other within their OWN armies and solve the problem for us.

    Ah but you see I am one of the weak minded ones :)


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    #202
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    TomRooney wrote: »
    yeah films thats it, the only place you seen combat was on your X-BOX.

    DAD?! :eek:

    You're right actually, it was the XBox I recognised that line from, films have moved away from the sinister guy who no-one knows anything about but who acts superior to all others without revealing a reason why he should.


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    #203
    fitz0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭fitz0


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    Thank God some of us have evolved.

    Hopefully the bigoted will turn on each other within their OWN armies and solve the problem for us.
    Do you even know the definition of bigotry?



    Now read through those. You are just as guilty as everyone of bigotry. Being incompassionate does not make one a bigot. Refusing to accept that a person doesnt have to care about those soldiers does make one a bigot.


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    #204
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    Ronan|Raven wrote: »
    God bless you :) Those lads were about to go and shoot unarmed Afghans? You see the whole generalisation act can work both ways. As for the lads who killed them and shot Innocent bystanders.. an act of war by the brave SCUM attempting to drag us all back to the dark ages. The last acts of a dying ANIMAL.

    last acts of a dying animal, i think i heard the head of the RUC say that a while back. funny you using that as a quote...?

    im sure they said that 800 years ago aswell but there you go.


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    #205
    andrewdeerpark
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭andrewdeerpark


    TomRooney wrote: »
    your comments are so deprived of logic its hardly worth replying but here goes.

    "innocent soldiers" is there such a thing...? they where on there way to afghanistan where they would have no doubt killed people, so there lifes as brits is more valuable than an afghans just because they are british.....there is nothing innocent about being a british soldier in uniform on irish soil.

    Afghanistan is another matter entirely I understand the British army's involvement their under the global threat of Sharia Arabic law and its spread throughout the world, I would like to continue to live in a democracy where we can engage debate not an Arab regime of veiled women and total dictotarship. Another topic.

    I do note you not addressing the latter part of my post.

    Please don't tarnish the reputation of the IRA with the Óglach na hÉireann impostors.

    The truth is that during war and conflict a gangster black economy thrives and certain elements of the new scumbag Republican movement (not the current SF leadership) miss the income generation (or else see conflict as a road to riches for a new generation) plus top IRA men from the last conflict made serious money. FACT!


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    #206
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    TomRooney wrote: »
    so by your standard, two soldiers in uniform being shot DEAD by two volunteers of the IRA, is murder.....?

    Before the declaration of an end to the cease fire, clearly.
    sounds more like an act of war to me.
    precisely, so you do understand.
    do you also consider the killing of IRA volunteers to be murder...?

    In peace time, unquestionably.


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    #207
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    Ronan|Raven wrote: »
    Plenty of dissidents are finding work in the current great struggle in the south... the drugs trade.

    care to show us any proof that the IRA are involved in the drugs trade......or will we just take that your talking crap and you have zero credibility.


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    #208
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    fitz0 wrote: »
    Do you even know the definition of bigotry?



    Now read through those. You are just as guilty as everyone of bigotry. Being incompassionate does not make one a bigot. Refusing to accept that a person doesnt have to care about those soldiers does make one a bigot.

    I feel embarrassed for you.
    blindly and obstinately attached to some creed or opinion and intolerant toward others; "a bigoted person"; "an outrageously bigoted point of view"

    Your definition.


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    #209
    fitz0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭fitz0


    andrewdeerpark wrote: »
    The truth is that during war and conflict a gangster black economy thrives and certain elements of the new scumbag Republican movement (not the current SF leadership) miss the income generation (or else see conflict as a road to riches for a new generation) plus top IRA men from the last conflict made serious money. FACT!
    Please do not claim something to be fact without linking to your source. Proof is never a bad thing.


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    #210
    Dannyboy83
    Registered Users Posts: 4,236 ✭✭✭Dannyboy83


    TomRooney wrote: »
    care to show us any proof that the IRA are involved in the drugs trade......or will we just take that your talking crap and you have zero credibility.

    Do you support the murder of soldiers, British or Irish, during peace time?


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    #211
    fitz0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭fitz0


    Dannyboy83 wrote: »
    I feel embarrassed for you.



    Your definition.

    Why do you feel embarrassed?

    Princetons definition to be precise.


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