Shooting in NI army base

dosman

Yet again some poor bassas lives have been extinguished by the exploits of nationalism. Is it something that folks in the South want??? Really?

OhNoYouDidn't

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I feel embarrassed for you.

Danny, you have on more than one occasion called me a bigot. His point is that abhorrent as my opinion on the dead squaddies may be to you, it is not bigoted.

You have made a complete plank of yourself here.

TomRooney

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Before the declaration of an end to the cease fire, clearly.


precisely, so you do understand.



In peace time, unquestionably.

the R.I.R.A are not on a ceasfire, all the security forces know this, so you agree it was an act of war not murder.

there is no peace time in ireland.....you believe so because the media have spread this myth at the order of the staus quo.

as long as there is british troops in ireland you can bet there will be people opposing them.

Liam Byrne

TomRooney wrote: »

i never questioned anybodys irishness

Really :

TomRooney wrote: »

If as you claim you are an irish man, and you live in a town that has suffered first hand at the british occupation. then you as an irish man should be ashamed of yourself.

"Revisionism" already ?

TomRooney wrote: »

so by your standard, two soldiers in uniform being shot DEAD by two volunteers of the IRA, is murder.....? sounds more like an act of war to me.

Oddly enough, I would have previously said that at least they're "more of" a "legitimate" target than completely innocent people. But having voted for the release of scum in good faith, and in recognition of the fact that it was a murder in cold blood, yes - it was murder.

TomRooney wrote: »

do you also consider the killing of IRA volunteers to be murder...?

In isolation, on the side of the streeat, for no reason ? Yes.
On their way to commit a crime or in the process of planting a bomb ? Absolutely not.

TomRooney

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Danny, you have on more than one occasion called me a bigot. His point is that abhorrent as my opinion on the dead squaddies may be to you, it is not bigoted.

You have made a complete plank of yourself here.

you are clearly not a bigot, this a tactic these people use when they realise they have no sound basis or valid argument.

gandalf

TomRooney wrote: »

last acts of a dying animal, i think i heard the head of the RUC say that a while back. funny you using that as a quote...?

im sure they said that 800 years ago aswell but there you go.

Well all the clichés have come out now. 800 Years, blah blah blah.......

You are condoning murder. The basic fact is the people that perpetrated this crime cannot live in society like normal human beings, they are incapable of functioning in a normal society and like it or not Northern Ireland is moving in this direction. We may get a united Ireland but it will be from open dialogue and compromise not butchering a few lads getting a pizza in.

Calling these people dissidents is wrong, they are criminals. They mask their criminal activity by pretending to be heroes but we all know what they are we have seen what they have done in the past. They are murderers.

At least you are in a minority and day by day the cheerleaders for butchery like you are diminishing. Your Ireland of blind hatred is coming to an end and these acts are its pathetic and bloody death throws.

Ronan|Raven

TomRooney wrote: »

last acts of a dying animal, i think i heard the head of the RUC say that a while back. funny you using that as a quote...?

im sure they said that 800 years ago aswell but there you go.

What do they hope to achieve? They cannot affect an outcome to suit their goals. It has been done ove the years we can all go on blowing the living **** out of each other but it will achieve absoleutly nothing. (and yes I missplelled that)
It is a quagmire that has slowly taken pace to move on politically.

On can argue about "bombing themselves to the table" But lets get real here (and before anyone questions anything I am well aware of the crimes caried out by HMF and they were crimes and the collusion between the RUC and the Loyalist gangs invovled in the Murder of Cathloics should be fully exposed and brought to justice) For me (and we all are entitled to our views as much as you are Tom no matter how much I disagree with them) this act that was carried out will do nothing positive for the furtherment of the six counties. What do they want an escalation of more troops back on the street? The old bases being rebuilt, the watchtowers being reinstalled.... sadly I fell this is what some are after and give all "a valid excuse and target"

We cannot and we must not go back to the bull**** that ruined lives on every side no matter how much either side feels it is wise to.

Dannyboy83

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Danny, you have on more than one occasion called me a bigot. His point is that abhorrent as my opinion on the dead squaddies may be to you, it is not bigoted.

You have made a complete plank of yourself here.

I have never called you a bigot, and I was very careful not to.
Read back through my posts and show me where I called you a bigot.

I have asked you if you were, given that you satisfied the criteria, by your own admission.

What I will say outright however, is that you are not compassionate for the murder of human beings or their families.

And your words do more damage to the peace process, with every post you make in this thread.

Is the last part an insult?
And from the perspective of whom?

Of the Irish who want peace?
Or the British who want peace?


May I have your permission to post a link to this thread on other forums, to determine if they think I am bigoted?

Ronan|Raven

TomRooney wrote: »

care to show us any proof that the IRA are involved in the drugs trade......or will we just take that your talking crap and you have zero credibility.

You see that can be aligned with the "fact" that those british soldiers were off to kill Innocent Afghans.

This is a fun game is it not..

Oh and who said anything about the IRA directly, there are many dissedents some under whatever banner of convenience suits.

Liam Byrne

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

You see that can be aligned with the "fact" that those british soldiers were off to kill Innocent Afhans.

This is a fun game is it not..

Oh and who said anything about the IRA?

You're being far too nice, Ronan....you only pulled him up on one "back it up" issue ? :rolleyes:

He's already failed to answer the discrepancy between "seventy-something" and "over 90" and the claim that 2006 is "recent"......

TomRooney

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Do you support the murder of soldiers, British or Irish, during peace time?

firstly from my understanding of the situation. the RIRA are not on ceasfire and the security forces are aware of this.

i dont support murder of anyone.

i do however understand why the british army personel where attacked, and in my opinion it was not a murder as they are british soldiers on irish soil.

it was an act of war, and if during the attack one of the volunteers had been shot and killed i doubt you would be saying that was murder.

soldiers know what they are signing up for. the brits got lax because the status quo are spreading the myth there is peace in ireland, but history shows us, although there is lulls in activity as long as there is a british presence in any part of ireland then there will be those who oppose them.

it is going on 800 and odd years now, you would think they would get the message.

fitz0

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

What I will say outright however, is that you are not compassionate for the murder of human beings or their families.

I believe thats the point he has been trying to make for about 6 pages now in regards to those soldiers.

Erin Go Brath

The British Army presence is not wanted in Ireland. Its time for them to leave before any more young soldiers needlessly lose their lives.

Dannyboy83

fitz0 wrote: »

I believe thats the point he has been trying to make for about 6 pages now in regards to those soldiers.

Incorrect.

Do I need to quote again, or should you upgrade your comphrensive abilities first?

He is compassionate for the murder of representative and guardians of the Irish Republic.

His is not compassionate for the murder of representative and guardians of the British Citizens in Northern Ireland

These are his OWN admissions, not some inference by me.

And now, to quote you yourself:

blindly and obstinately attached to some creed or opinion and intolerant toward others; "a bigoted person"; "an outrageously bigoted point of view"

TomRooney

gandalf wrote: »

Well all the clichés have come out now. 800 Years, blah blah blah.......

You are condoning murder. The basic fact is the people that perpetrated this crime cannot live in society like normal human beings, they are incapable of functioning in a normal society and like it or not Northern Ireland is moving in this direction. We may get a united Ireland but it will be from open dialogue and compromise not butchering a few lads getting a pizza in.

Calling these people dissidents is wrong, they are criminals. They mask their criminal activity by pretending to be heroes but we all know what they are we have seen what they have done in the past. They are murderers.

At least you are in a minority and day by day the cheerleaders for butchery like you are diminishing. Your Ireland of blind hatred is coming to an end and these acts are its pathetic and bloody death throws.

you make alot of presumtions gandalf, firstly it is not murder it is an act of war.

i take it you agree with the presence of foriegn troops on irish soil.
so i think it is you who is in the minority here.

the only dissident Republicans are the ones sitting in leinster house and the ones sitting in stormont. namely fianna fail and provisional sinn fein. the inheritors of a sell out. greedy corrupt money hungry slags the lot of them.

the Republicans who have stayed true to Republican principles are alive and thriving.

also i do not hate anybody, i find hate to be a useless emotion.
i am however aware that there is still an illegal occupation of a part of Ireland by the british government.

amacachi

TomRooney wrote: »

i am however aware that there is still an illegal occupation of a part of Ireland by the british government.

Link?

Liam Byrne

TomRooney wrote: »

in my opinion it was not a murder as they are british soldiers on irish soil.

Murder: The pre-planned killing anyone who isn't a direct threat to you

TomRooney wrote: »

if during the attack one of the volunteers had been shot and killed i doubt you would be saying that was murder.

Personally, I would say that if they were committing a crime or planning to kill someone, then it wouldn't be; live by the sword = die by the sword.

Mind you, the law could view it as manslaughter; if someone threatened my life at work and I responded by killing them instead (which I would view as my right), I would not automatically get off.....in my view, I should, but the law's the law and I would be at the mercy of the courts.

Question for you, TomRooney......if "acts of war" are OK, would you be OK if the British soldiers had tracked down an IRA member and shot them without warning ? Would you be on here complaining about those scummy Brits ?

I mean, reversing your logic (without bias) don't the "volunteers" "know what they're signing up to" too ?

TomRooney

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

You see that can be aligned with the "fact" that those british soldiers were off to kill Innocent Afghans.

This is a fun game is it not..

Oh and who said anything about the IRA directly, there are many dissedents some under whatever banner of convenience suits.

it may be a game for you, but the fact you can not provide proof leaves it clear for all to see, you are lying and you have zero credibility.

Dannyboy83

TomRooney wrote: »

firstly from my understanding of the situation. the RIRA are not on ceasfire and the security forces are aware of this.

I wasn't aware of this but your next point

i dont support murder of anyone.

Nor do I.
And I am sorry for their death.
And the damage to the peace process.

Sinn Fein themselves have said its despicable and inexcusable.

i do however understand why the british army personel where attacked, and in my opinion it was not a murder as they are british soldiers on irish soil.

I don't.
Its not self defense.
And, despite their wishes, intentions, ambitions or aims............its not Irish soil.

Can you not understand it?

I wish it was, but its not. Not legally or by any other means.
Its part of the United Kingdom.

These acts ensure it will NEVER be Irish soil.

Governments will NEVER submit to terrorisim, look at Afganistan/Iraq/Pakistan!!

Do you agree with me here?

it was an act of war, and if during the attack one of the volunteers had been shot and killed i doubt you would be saying that was murder.

Yes, it WAS an act of war.
An a cowardly act at that.

No matter WHO was murdered, I would be saying this.

soldiers know what they are signing up for. the brits got lax because the status quo are spreading the myth there is peace in ireland, but history shows us, although there is lulls in activity as long as there is a british presence in any part of ireland then there will be those who oppose them.

I am opposed to the British presence here!!!
Who said I am not?

I don't support murdering scum tho.

There is a politicial process.

Anyone who disagrees should do everyone a favour and turn their guns on themselves!

gandalf

You are a very skilled and dedicated apologist Tom. There is no more war, there is a period of reconciliation. The extreme minority cannot accept this so they become heroes by shooting people ordering a pepperoni.

This is murder, there is no other way to colour it. You are not worthy and do not deserve to be called Irish.

Another useless armchair republican ejaculating bile and hatred.

Liam Byrne

TomRooney wrote: »

the fact you can not provide proof leaves it clear for all to see, you are lying and you have zero credibility.

Since you're demanding facts, would you PLEASE provide proof of your earlier claims re 90% ??

Or do we quote your own quote above back to you ?

the_syco

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

The British Army presence is not wanted in Ireland. Its time for them to leave before any more young soldiers needlessly lose their lives.

Neither are the terrorists. Where will they go?

TomRooney

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Murder: The pre-planned killing anyone who isn't a direct threat to you



Personally, I would say that if they were committing a crime or planning to kill someone, then it wouldn't be; live by the sword = die by the sword.

Mind you, the law could view it as manslaughter; if someone threatened my life at work and I responded by killing them instead (which I would view as my right), I would not automatically get off.....in my view, I should, but the law's the law and I would be at the mercy of the courts.

Question for you, TomRooney......if "acts of war" are OK, would you be OK if the British soldiers had tracked down an IRA member and shot them without warning ? Would you be on here complaining about those scummy Brits ?

I mean, reversing your logic (without bias) don't the "volunteers" "know what they're signing up to" too ?

i cant speak directly for any volunteers,

but i am sure they are well aware of what the consequences of engaging british troops are. the IRA after all is an army.
if a volunteer was killed in action it would be sad and unfortunate, and he would be a martyr for ireland.

my personal view is if a vol is killed on active duty, then it is an act of war. that said the british troops have no right to be in ireland and the IRA will always hold the moral highground, regardless of the brit and 26 county media propaganda machine.

TomRooney

the_syco wrote: »

Neither are the terrorists. Where will they go?

define terorist.....or do you just go by what the british term to be terrorist/criminal.

the british are the only terrorists in ireland.

Dannyboy83

TomRooney wrote: »

that said the british troops have no right to be in ireland and the IRA will always hold the moral highground, regardless of the brit and 26 county media propaganda machine.

Back that up with legal proof please, otherwise you are lying and have ZERO credibility.

Erin Go Brath

the_syco wrote: »

Neither are the terrorists. Where will they go?

If the British Army soldiers went home the "terrorists" would no longer have a Raison d'être. Problem solved!

TomRooney

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Since you're demanding facts, would you PLEASE provide proof of your earlier claims re 90% ??

Or do we quote your own quote above back to you ?

i made a mistake on that i meant 80 percent instead of 90, not a major difference.. stop clutching at straws. its pathetic on your behalf.

Dannyboy83

TomRooney wrote: »

define terorist.....or do you just go by what the british term to be terrorist/criminal.

the british are the only terrorists in ireland.

How about the two lads who got injured then?
Are they fair game?

Dannyboy83

TomRooney wrote: »

i made a mistake on that i meant 80 percent instead of 90, not a major difference.. stop clutching at straws. its pathetic on your behalf.

Your failure to show proof and your constant dodging of questions and facts does not lend itself to your cause.

You have totally ruined the credibility or support of those who may have supported you before.

Tom,

I don't want to attack you. You've agreed its murder.

Can you just agree that its wrong and the objectives should be achieved via political means?

C'mon, your an intelligent fella, don't support cowards.

Liam Byrne

TomRooney wrote: »

he would be a martyr for ireland.

I'd prefer to view Gerry McCabe as a martyr for Ireland; plus (ironically) if the 2 British soldiers finally get the British and Irish Governments to say "Right, we've had enough" and take decisive action to ensure peace on this island, it could well turn out that those soliders could end up as "martyrs for Ireland".

TomRooney wrote: »

my personal view is if a vol is killed on active duty, then it is an act of war.

Define "active duty". What I asked was if a "volunteer" was killed, would you complain.......I didn't mention "active duty". What if - let's say - they were simply out ordering a pizza ? Would you complain about inappropriate action then ?

TomRooney wrote: »

that said the british troops have no right to be in ireland and the IRA will always hold the moral highground, regardless of the brit and 26 county media propaganda machine.

Yeah, right.....simply being in the "wrong" place is SO much less the "high moral ground" than going out and shooting someone....... :rolleyes: