Random Testing in the Defence Forces

norrie_1001

Hi all,

First time posting on this forum, normally stay on the ES forum.
Anyway I was wondering about random testing in the Defence Forces.
Is it done for alcohol and drugs? If so how is it done, any details?
What are the consequences of failing a test?

Thanks,
norrie_1001

minidazzler

Only random testing for Drugs, a failure means Dismissal.

However, if you show up on Parade pissed, (read: Unfit for Duty), you can also be charged, AFAIK.

For the Compulsory Random Drug Test, the testers come to the camp in question, ask to see a list of personnel who are in that day. Select who they will test, (By letter is how I was told it is done), then they round those people up, no matter what they are doing they must come to be tested. Then they get piss-tested, urinalisis. A few weeks later the test come's back for each person. The OC of the Barracks recieves the list. Any failures, get the boot.

Rew

Dazzler your a bit off the mark towards the end there. I've been tested. Process is simple enough. They land in unannounced to location selected at random. They get the CO to lock down the faculity. They have a numbe rof letters of the alphabet (I think they had 3 or 4 night I was tested). Everyone who's name begins with one of those letters has to be tested. They require a recipt from the testing panal to be allowed to leave.

Process is easy enough everything is explained in detail. You then fill in a form with the military members of the team. You then move over to the civvie members for the actual testing. They are a company who is contracted to do the tests. Some more paperwork and the test its self is explained in detail. At this point you asked to consent to the test. If you don't then your instantly binned. Your asked to declare any medication your on and it's important to be very through and clear at this stage. You select a testing kit at random, open it and inspect it to see that its ok. Remember to check its expiry date. Your are escourted to the toilets and they make sure that you don't do anything dodgy. Its not as bad as it sounds.

Once you have done the biz you firmly seal up the unit and head back inside with the civvies. They ask you to activate the kit using a plastic key thats part of the kit. This allows the urine to mise with chemicals in the kit and a test card on the back starts to appear with differant colours. Lots of them are supposed to appear so dojn't panic as they come up. After a minute or two they check the colours on the back against a card and that indicates whats in the urine. If its normal then thats it your done and dusted and your get a nice bit of paper to give to the lads on the gate to get out of the place!

If not then the sample is sent off to a lab to be looked at, you still haven't failed at this point. You get your bit of paper and your able to go. The sample you gave is split in to two. The A is sent to the lab and they test the sample against the list of stuff that you have supplied ealier (any medication etc your on). If your sample matches the list you supplied then your ok. If not then the problems start. They can tell by the concentrations and mix of chemicals if your popping pain killers to try cover up something or anything like that so you can't bull**** them. Its worth noting that they sample is only tested for what ever the orignal test indicated is in the urine (the colours that appear on the testing kit). If it comes back for somthing then the report comes back to the unit and your binned. You have the opportunity to have the B sample tested at your own expense at one of a selected set of labs. You can't use any old lab so no Dr Nick Rivera ****. If that comes back neg then your clear, pos and your binned.

Hope I haven't missed anything and that its all clear. People should know they details so that there is no confusion or panic if you are being tested.

Reg'stoy

I seem to remember a guy got off after he claimed that his pizza had been tampered with. Somebody added an extra topping .

martinr5232

Thats exactly it Rew.

Was tested myself a while back its no big deal.

As long as you have no reason to worry about it and if you do you shouldnt be in the DF.

steyr fan

I was tested twice in 6 weeks last year. My surname is M - the military authorites at the test told me that M always comes up: more people in the DF have surnames that end with M than with any other letter.

So all us M's are snookered every time.:(

minidazzler

steyr fan wrote: »

I was tested twice in 6 weeks last year. My surname is M - the military authorites at the test told me that M always comes up: more people in the DF have surnames that end with M than with any other letter.

So all us M's are snookered every time.:(

8 weeks camp just last year, and I have never been tested!!!:D My surname is also M!!!


Just lucky I guess!!! Not that I need to be, never even smoked! But, I would still get nervous because, maybe I just don't remember that one night I was snorting Coke off a hookers ass, or Chasing the Dragon for 3 days straight!!!

concussion

They've changed the process slightly, they now only take a list of recent medications if the screening indicates proscribed substances. This is so they can speed up the testing process. Tip of the day - don't take medication which contains codeine too close to the test (ie if you're RDF don't take it before or on camp) as you can get an indication for opiates which means no armed duties and a few paranoid weeks while the confirmatory analysis is performed. Codeine (in the form of codeine phosphate) is present in some cough bottles and analgesics such as Nurofen Plus and Solpadeine.

Thargor

Just to clarify, do you get binned for weed and hash if those are the only things you do?

concussion

No, if you get caught for cannabis you have buy weed for your whole unit as punshment for being caught.

For more information see the General Service Booklet
http://www.military.ie/careers/booklets/genservice-eng.pdf

or DFR A7 Chapter 3

From the annual report for 2007 (the most recent one published)

It is Defence Forces’ policy to test a minimum of 10% of all ranks annually. In 2007, a total of 1,905 Defence Forces personnel were tested under the Compulsory Random Drug Testing Programme. This represented a 57% increase on the 2006 figure of 1,213 tests and is reflective of the complete rollout of the programme that now incorporates overseas units and a more effective mechanism for randomly selecting units. There were six positive tests in 2007 representing 0.31% of the total tests completed. This compares favourably with 0.58% of tests proving positive in 2006. Administrative procedures for discharge were instigated against those who tested positive. This programme has proven to be a significant contributor to achieving a drug free society within the Defence Forces. The Defence Forces, having completed five years of random drug testing, continue to be at the forefront with regard to work place drug testing in Ireland.

There are plenty of Dail Debates on the subject of appeals, go to oireachteas.ie and run a search.

Thargor

Do you get kicked out for hash and weed though?

concussion

Thargor wrote: »

Do you get kicked out for hash and weed though?

Yes you can. Like I said

concussion wrote: »

There are plenty of Dail Debates on the subject of appeals, go to oireachteas.ie and run a search.

Thargor

concussion wrote: »

Yes you can. Like I said

No, its not like you said, in fact its the exact polar opposite of what you said:

No, if you get caught for cannabis you have buy weed for your whole unit as punshment for being caught.

See?

Local-womanizer

concussion wrote: »

They've changed the process slightly, they now only take a list of recent medications if the screening indicates proscribed substances. This is so they can speed up the testing process. Tip of the day - don't take medication which contains codeine too close to the test (ie if you're RDF don't take it before or on camp) as you can get an indication for opiates which means no armed duties and a few paranoid weeks while the confirmatory analysis is performed. Codeine (in the form of codeine phosphate) is present in some cough bottles and analgesics such as Nurofen Plus and Solpadeine.

Thanks for that Concussion!I was taking Nurofen on my camp for my shoulder!Wont happen again though!

iceage

you don't need the weed, cos you don't feel the need, cos training gives you the speed to don't need the weed......get it?

Don't do it, cos you want blah blah blah.;)

Drugs don't make stupid people, stupid people do!

Local-womanizer

iceage wrote: »

you don't need the weed, cos you don't feel the need, cos training gives you the speed to don't need the weed......get it?

Don't do it, cos you want blah blah blah.;)

Drugs don't make stupid people, stupid people do!

Done it once years ago,dont see the attraction

Plus in todays current economic climate how could you afford it

But now we are getting off topic!

concussion

Thargor wrote: »

No, its not like you said, in fact its the exact polar opposite of what you said

I'm so sorry to have mislead you :rolleyes:

Local womaniser - if you do have a painful injury I wouldn't advise avoiding codeine if you think you need it but it is something to be considered when on training.
As for armed duties, having reread Ch 3, you are removed from armed duties only after the confirmatory report and, in the majority of cases, removed from the DF soon afterwards

greenarrow

CRDT- I am not sure if they are allowed to test people in the RDF anymore on training nights.
Something about it happening once and people missing buses and the like, going home pretty late on a school night etc. on account of the training night running over.

Don't quote me on whether or not that happened on a training night or not, but as far as I know they don't test RDF personnel on training nights because of the time it takes/can take.
From what I hear, it takes a fair amount of time. At least 2-3 hours.

And it is done by the first letter of your surname not the last:rolleyes:

Rew

greenarrow wrote: »

CRDT- I am not sure if they are allowed to test people in the RDF anymore on training nights.
Something about it happening once and people missing buses and the like, going home pretty late on a school night etc. on account of the training night running over.

Don't quote me on whether or not that happened on a training night or not, but as far as I know they don't test RDF personnel on training nights because of the time it takes/can take.
From what I hear, it takes a fair amount of time. At least 2-3 hours.

And it is done by the first letter of your surname not the last:rolleyes:

I was tested on a training night late last year so sounds like bull**** to me. There were issues in CBB where test went on in to the very late hours but thats what you have duty drivers for.

concussion

It's a tricky one anyway - every document I've seen regarding testing of RDF says they are liable when "on paid training." I'd prefer if they could test at unpaid training however as otherwise there isn't much of a deterrent. It does completely ruin about 3 hours training though

pmg58

I was tested on a training night last week. I asked one of the civvies carrying out the test, he said it actually happens quite a lot.

Borneo Fnctn

An officer in my unit asked for my unit to be tested on a training night twice. He's an arsehole. I was there until 12:30 one night. I had better things to be doing than pi**ing in a jar.

pmg58

jackpalance wrote: »

An officer in my unit asked for my unit to be tested on a training night twice. He's an arsehole. I was there until 12:30 one night. I had better things to be doing than pi**ing in a jar.

Kind of does away with the whole random aspect of Compulsory Random Drug Testing, if its being done on request.

Rew

jackpalance wrote: »

An officer in my unit asked for my unit to be tested on a training night twice. He's an arsehole. I was there until 12:30 one night. I had better things to be doing than pi**ing in a jar.

Sounds like bull**** rumours to me. The CRDT team explain how locations and indvidules are selected and the CO asking for testing doesn't fit into that process anywhere.

Borneo Fnctn

Rew wrote: »

Sounds like bull**** rumours to me. The CRDT team explain how locations and indvidules are selected and the CO asking for testing doesn't fit into that process anywhere.

Well I know for a fact it was requested on at least one occasion very close to when testing occurred. I heard the explanation of how units are selected twice btw. It wasn't the CO. It was an officer who had reason to suspect that soldiers were on pills. Obviously it was a "coincidence".

pmg58

You're implying that an officer went outside the chain of command and conspired to break regulations to influence the CRDT team. Knowing how the army works, I wouldn't be too surprised if it happened but you'd want to be very sure about it if you're going around telling people.

Rew

Im pretty sure that the CRDT team actually mentioned rumours like that and rubished them.

twinytwo

norrie_1001 wrote: »

Hi all,

First time posting on this forum, normally stay on the ES forum.
Anyway I was wondering about random testing in the Defence Forces.
Is it done for alcohol and drugs? If so how is it done, any details?
What are the consequences of failing a test?

Thanks,
norrie_1001

is someone afraid of failing??

Rew

twinytwo wrote: »

is someone afraid of failing??

Everyone should know the details, isn't he allowed be curious?