Petrol Prices rip-off

hobnob101

I am so angry about petrol prices on the N11 route through Wicklow into Dublin city.

Oil Prices have been falling yet Pump Petrol Prices are massive. I recently drove straight back out of a petrol station because of the price, only to find that the prices in the station across the road were only marginally better. I was angry enough about being asked to pay €1.07 per litre south bound on the N11 in Kilmacanogue (Kilmac) but then to be asked to pay €1.06 Northbound was not much better. I was so annoyed that I used my jobs blog to write about Petrol Prices in Dublin and Wicklow instead of jobs.

To add further insult to injury, the very next day I was travelling out of dublin on the N7. Petrol Prices there were just €1.02 in several petrol stations. The stations are about equidistant from dublin port where the stuff comes from. I would go to a different station for my petrol because I believe that it is complacency on these issues that lets the highway robbers get away with it. The problem with that is that all the stations from where I live into the middle of Dublin are practicing the same rip-off game.

So I decided that the best thing that I can do is to write about it, naming and shaming the greedy feckers that are laughing at us for paying their ridicuously inflated prices. So the first two stations on my list are both of the Petrol stations in Kilmacanogue (Kilmac). Shame on you.

Feel free to add to this list in as many places as you can!

Our man in Havana

I am convinced there is a cartel in place along the N11 corridor.

logger

Why not post your observations on http://www.pumps.ie/findStationsByRoute.php or another web site, also check site regularly to inform yourself of prices and where is offering cheapest fuel, that way you can spend your hard earned cash only in the stations that are not ripping you off as much as the others.

Here is a station you could use if you head into Dunlaoghaire off N11, I use them quite a bit find pricing ok for Diesel, don't watch the petrol prices.
http://www.pumps.ie/viewStation.php?stationID=332

Great area is around Kimmage area I find also, a lot of stations so competitive prices.
http://www.pumps.ie/viewStationsByArea.php?county=Dublin&zone=D12

Both Killmac stations should have been closed when the road was upgraded, the one south bound has an unsafe exit, and the one north bound is so choked up in the morning it often blocks traffic coming from Roundwood.

Mcfast

Kimmage is great, theres 4 stations close enough to each other which all seem to compete. Well that used to be the case now the shell is topaz its usually more expensive but the kcr garage(emo now?),discount fuels and esso were all 1.09 2 days ago

darc

hobnob101 wrote: »

I am so angry about petrol prices on the N11 route through Wicklow into Dublin city.

Oil Prices have been falling yet Pump Petrol Prices are massive. !

Oil prices have risen 20% in the past 2 weeks.

This has been covered hundreds of times, there's even been a dail enquiry about it and every time it been proven that petrol retailers DO NOT MAKE A NET PROFIT on fuel retailing in Ireland.

At 1.12 pump price (expected in 2 weeks as refined prices have jumped 20% last week) the net of vat price is 92c and this is broken down as follows

The price for unleaded petrol today (9th march) from the refineries is 29c (up from 23c 3 weeks ago & 18c @ christmas)
The duty on a litre of petrol is 50.79c (fixed)
The importer costs per litre are approx. 5c
The retailer get the balance - 7c based on a 1.12 retail price (related to todays market price which will be seen at the pumps in 2 weeks). This covers all costs, credit card charges, satffing, rent, rates, electricity etc.

Hardly a rip off!

If a station is charging 1.25, then there'd be a reason to shout rip-off

Victor McDade

darc wrote: »

If a station is charging 1.25, then there'd be a reason to shout rip-off

They might be after the emergency budget

Guy:Incognito

savemejebas wrote: »

They might be after the emergency budget

In that case it'd be 125 + whatever might/might not be added in the budget.

Bobeagleburger

The dollar strengthing against the euro the last few months has pushed it up a bit too

dh0661

darc wrote: »

At 1.12 pump price (expected in 2 weeks as refined prices have jumped 20% last week) the net of vat price is 92c and this is broken down as follows

The price for unleaded petrol today (9th march) from the refineries is 29c (up from 23c 3 weeks ago & 18c @ christmas)
The duty on a litre of petrol is 50.79c (fixed)
The importer costs per litre are approx. 5c
The retailer get the balance - 7c based on a 1.12 retail price (related to todays market price which will be seen at the pumps in 2 weeks). This covers all costs, credit card charges, satffing, rent, rates, electricity etc.

You forgot the 8c government levy from last budget.

We've (Tralee) being paying 95.9 - 99.9 cpl since last December, but today one of the major stations jumped to 102.9 cpl :mad:

Diesel is still retailing @ 88.9 cpl

hobnob101

That still does not explain a difference of 5c per litre between two stations. That adds up to €2 per tank. Over 1,000 vehicles that's a difference of €2,000.

What is more disturbing is that these differences are not randomly spread but instead follow specific road arteries.

Why should I be paying more just because I live in Wicklow instead of Naas. If I trusted our government not to make an arse of it I'd be calling for them to regulate the buggers, make it all even. hmmm, nationalised petrol stations, now theres an idea. Look at what happened to Eircom when they sold it off. We went from having one of the better telecoms systems in Europe to one of the worst through privatisation. Sometimes there is a case for nationalisation. Nationalisation with some private competition would be even better!

Petrol stations should not be making any money off the petrol until the government decrease their duties, and they should have a strong enough lobby to be able to make that happen. They should also have the forsight to buy when prices are low. Don't try to tell me that they just buy on a Monday every week because that's when they buy petrol. That would be plain stupid. The money in a petrol station comes from the shop and the car wash. The petrol is how a small shop attracts it's customers. That is how it is now.

Don't try and tell me that I'm not being ripped off when I am being asked to pay more than if I lived somewhere else with no geographical or economic reasons for the price difference. It is price fixing and it makes me angry. Just because it hasn't been prosecuted does not make it any less the case.

If petrol station owners are sore about the profit margins they should get out and do something else, not use government persecution in the form of successive budgetary attacks into an excuse to try and rip me off. I guarantee that if one station dropped prices the others soon would too.

Petrol should become a loss leader.... that would be smart. Attract more business by selling at or slightly under cost. But that wouldn't suit the cartel would it?

Bobeagleburger

Stations only charge what people are willing to pay.

You should come to Galway city, theres been a cartel going on for years. Its sickening

PCPhoto

OP ... any chance that because theres a higher level of traffic on the N7 route then garages there make more sales or have to compete against each other for the customers - hence the lower price.

its also possible that the garages along the N11 route have a cartel and keep the prices inflated.

hobnob101

PCPhoto wrote: »

OP ... any chance that because theres a higher level of traffic on the N7 route then garages there make more sales or have to compete against each other for the customers - hence the lower price.

its also possible that the garages along the N11 route have a cartel and keep the prices inflated.

It is not unusual to see cars queuing up to get into these particular stations in Kilmacanogue (Kilmac). They are operating at as high a capacity as they can be during peak traffic and don't do a bad trade off peak either.

hobnob101

Oh and perhaps you could explain this article in the examiner darc??

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/idojkfkfsn/rss2/

Or perhaps the AA are telling us porkies too?

L.R. Weizel

darc, are you aware the price of a barrel of oil dropped from $150 in July to what it's currently at which is somewhere under 50? Why have the prices at the pumps not reflected this?

And if our government is charging so much levy, how in the hell did they run out of money.

darc

hobnob101 wrote: »

Oh and perhaps you could explain this article in the examiner darc??

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/idojkfkfsn/rss2/

Or perhaps the AA are telling us porkies too?

Most journalists have very little knowledge on what they're writing about and do not let facts get in the way of a story.

[/QUOTE] darc, are you aware the price of a barrel of oil dropped from $150 in July to what it's currently at which is somewhere under 50? Why have the prices at the pumps not reflected this??[/QUOTE]

when oil was at $147, refined price for unleaded petrol was $4.05 per US Gallon (3.8litres) the dollar was at $1.6 to the €, duty was at 44.8c and petrol sold at €1.42

Oil is now at $47, refined price for petrol is $1.34 per US gallon (3.8litres), the dollar is at 1.26, duty is 50.79c (up since Budget) and petrol sells for 1.05.

Get a calculator & work out the math. to amount attributed to importers / retailers is constant.

I suppose wherever you work, all products / service are given at cost & you work voluntarily?

Personally I don't know any business that works on a gross margin of 6% on average - even lotto agents get better returns!

Padraig Mor

darc wrote: »

Oil prices have risen 20% in the past 2 weeks.

This has been covered hundreds of times, there's even been a dail enquiry about it and every time it been proven that petrol retailers DO NOT MAKE A NET PROFIT on fuel retailing in Ireland.

At 1.12 pump price (expected in 2 weeks as refined prices have jumped 20% last week) the net of vat price is 92c and this is broken down as follows

The price for unleaded petrol today (9th march) from the refineries is 29c (up from 23c 3 weeks ago & 18c @ christmas)
The duty on a litre of petrol is 50.79c (fixed)
The importer costs per litre are approx. 5c
The retailer get the balance - 7c based on a 1.12 retail price (related to todays market price which will be seen at the pumps in 2 weeks). This covers all costs, credit card charges, satffing, rent, rates, electricity etc.

Hardly a rip off!

If a station is charging 1.25, then there'd be a reason to shout rip-off

What about the rebate they later get from the distributor? IIRC there has also been reports recently that fuel prices have decreased far less in Ireland than other EU countries.

darc

Padraig Mor wrote: »

What about the rebate they later get from the distributor? IIRC there has also been reports recently that fuel prices have decreased far less in Ireland than other EU countries.

There's about 12c divided between retailer & distributor. I don't know how its divided, but at 12 c per litre to cover all costs associated with distribution & retail does not in any way shape or form amount ot a rip off.

Funny how anyone who moans rip off, never seems to be able to provide any evidence and also seem to have no idea of where the companies that employ them seem to find their wages!!

Gee - a company might make a profit for their shareholders, they must be ripping everyone off!:rolleyes:

hobnob101

Newspapers have legal teams that review papers before they go to print. This is because they would be sued if they print anything that is not factual. I would have thought that the AA were a reasonably good source of information too.

I moan rip-off when I get ripped off. It's that simple. If I lived to the west rather than the south of Dublin I would not be paying as much. That is where the rip-off comes into play.

I work for myself so I am very aware of costs but I also know that I can not expect to sell a product for more than my competitors without having a captive market (like the N11).

I have no doubt that your margins are small on petrol. But volumes are high and there are many add-on sales in the shops. So you make profit twice. Your shops make just as much margin as any shop does and you have extra coming in from your petrol sales, so don't expect a lot of small shop owners to be sympathetic with you. I don't know many stations that did not manage to upgrade in some way over the last few years. You are entitled to make a profit but not to the extent that you take the michael out of your customers. Lobby the government if you are being treated unfairly by taxes, but do not expect me to pay over the odds for the privilege of self service and surly owners.

darc

hobnob101 wrote: »

I have no doubt that your margins are small on petrol. But volumes are high and there are many add-on sales in the shops. So you make profit twice. Your shops make just as much margin as any shop does and you have extra coming in from your petrol sales, so don't expect a lot of small shop owners to be sympathetic with you. I don't know many stations that did not manage to upgrade in some way over the last few years. You are entitled to make a profit but not to the extent that you take the michael out of your customers. Lobby the government if you are being treated unfairly by taxes, but do not expect me to pay over the odds for the privilege of self service and surly owners.

I have no connection whatsoever with the fuel trade other than as a customer - but I did think I was being ripped off when prices were spiking last year, so i went off and spent a couple of hours finding out how prices are made up - if journalists did the same thing they'd change their stories. - But that would ruin the rip-off headlines!!

As for your point of saying that papers check facts on everything!!!!?????:D:D
:D:D:D:D:D

Shelflife

I was a petrol retailer for 15 years and for the last 4 years it was a waste of time, gross profit including any rebates we got from the companies ran at about 5%. out of that i had to pay bank/credit card fees (approx 1% overall) and your down to 4% to pay your staff, esb, maintenance,insurance etc, it was a waste of time.

only about 30% of the customers bought something in the shop.
You need a huge turnover to make it pay and thats why about half of the forecourts have closed over the last 10 years.

jmayo

hobnob101 wrote: »

It is not unusual to see cars queuing up to get into these particular stations in Kilmacanogue (Kilmac). They are operating at as high a capacity as they can be during peak traffic and don't do a bad trade off peak either.

It's just not the two in Kilmac.
Hills in Bray just off the N11 (last Bray exit and roundabout with Southern Cross route to Greystones) is also dear.

And what ever you do do not use the staion in Sandyford that is up past the Mint, one of the dearest in Sth County Dublin.

P.C.

hobnob101 wrote: »

Newspapers have legal teams that review papers before they go to print. This is because they would be sued if they print anything that is not factual.

Yeah, right. newspapers never get sued. :rolleyes:

hobnob101 wrote: »

I moan rip-off when I get ripped off. It's that simple.

Don't buy petrol then. That way you won't feel ripped off.


If enough people stoped buying petrol, maybee the price would go down to something like 30c a litre. :rolleyes:

rameire

Bond-007 wrote: »

I am convinced there is a cartel in place along the N11 corridor.

if its a cartel, they sure arent doing it right.
they are only getting around a 7% margin on the product,
most consumer products out in the world have a margin of anything from 15% to 35%, so if they coped themselves on and were in a cartel the prices could be higher.
its probably one of the lowest margins for products, so i would say has the least flexibility to change, and the least likely to change.

and if they are making sooo much from these cartels, why dont you go out and buy one of the many tens of now vacant petrol station lots and start selling fuel.

hobnob101

Yeah, right. newspapers never get sued.

Point taken! But....

Don't buy petrol then. That way you won't feel ripped off.

That's why I feel so P****d off about it.... I have to buy petrol. I am forced to pay what feels like way too much and then see that other areas don't charge as much. It upsets my sense of fairness.

Ok, So it looks like Petrol stations are not the most profitable of businesses to own, you need to have a huge turnover to get anywhere. It also looks like the government is one of main contributing factors to the horrible prices we pay.. . . . public servants, but the servants earn more than the masters? But that's a topic for another day.

There have been some well made arguments and it is clear that it is a more complex situation than I first thought.

I know that I have brought the stations in Kilmac to light in particular, but jmayo has correctly pointed out that these are not the only ones that are overcharging. Yes I am still saying that they are overcharging. Yes I have listened to the arguments and I know how small the margins are. I cannot get away from the fact that I could be paying less elsewhere though. If I can buy a pair of trousers for €50 in one shop and the same pair for €70 in another then that other shop is overcharging. Margins are not all that relevant to this point. Other issues like government tax rates, the cost of oil etc only serve to cloud the waters and distract from the inescapable. These petrol stations are charging over the odds (even if over the odds is not a huge profit).

If I am paying more it would be reasonable to expect more in return. . . A better service in some way, even a more aesthetically pleasing station environment. This is not provided. The stations in Kilmac are bog standard (no pun intended).

My favorite station is the Apple Green station on the N7. They have taken the time to make the shop an attractive place (not that any shop is particularly attractive - it's all relative) and also because I like the doughnut sticks they sell there (a USP for me). They still manage to charge lower prices though.

darc

hobnob101 wrote: »

My favorite station is the Apple Green station on the N7. They have taken the time to make the shop an attractive place (not that any shop is particularly attractive - it's all relative) and also because I like the doughnut sticks they sell there (a USP for me). They still manage to charge lower prices though.

And that's why they purposely make so little on petrol. It gets you in to buy the gorgeous little donghnut sticks where the gross profit on 2 / 3 of these far exceeds the gross profit on a fill of petrol. Add in a coffee (approx 10c cost to station) and mr. apple green has made up the loss of profit on the petrol.

hobnob101

And that's why they purposely make so little on petrol. It gets you in to buy the gorgeous little donghnut sticks where the gross profit on 2 / 3 of these far exceeds the gross profit on a fill of petrol. Add in a coffee (approx 10c cost to station) and mr. apple green has made up the loss of profit on the petrol.

Yup! I'm happy with my little doughnut sticks that I haven't seen anywhere else, I'm happy with what I payed for my petrol, I'm happy with the service. I'm a happy customer and will come back willingly again. That's how to run a competitive petrol station.

Or

You can charge me more on the petrol so that I feel ripped off, you can fail to make any profit on little doughnut sticks and you can have me feeling indignant and posting negative remarks on the internet saying that you are a rip off merchant.

You are right. Mr. Apple Green probably did make more profit. I don't have a problem with petrol stations making a profit.... I have a problem with feeling ripped off on products that I am forced to buy rather than choose to buy. I feel that way because there are people out there with a better business model that make the Kilmac petrol stations business model look like c**p. C**p is in fact an understatement. I was angry enough about it to post a really negative comment on boards that has been viewed 510 times so far and I also blogged about it which will have had it's own reach. Mr. Apple Green is probably laughing his ass off and rightly so. He understands his market far better and has positioned his business to take a big chunk of it. He is doing exactly what I said should be done many posts back... he is using petrol as a loss leader to bring in his business. There are many newsagents who would be grateful of having a pull like petrol to get their customers in. Nobody with a petrol station can expect to make money from petrol anymore. It is exactly the same as it is for newsagents with cigarettes. Both petrol and cigarettes have been taxed to the extent that there is no profit margin left for the retailer. Newsagents stock cigarettes because they draw customers that "have to have them" in and increase the chance of sales of other products. In the same way, petrol retailers should realise that petrol is in the same boat. It is the draw to the 'real business'. It cannot be the business because taxes are too high. Petrol is also an emotive product because it is a necessity for most of those that purchase it.

I perceive the stations in Kilmacanogue as having ripped me off because they tried to make more profit (some profit) on a product that I am highly sensitive to price on, and that I am aware I could have got cheaper elsewhere. I am then angry about this because I am bound to petrol stations in the area by virtue of where I live.

The end verdict: Poor business sense by the owners of the petrol stations that resulted in poor press on the internet. Hopfully they will hear about it and learn from it. Then I and the other posters who felt the same way will have a service that we are happy with and the station owners can have a better business that is less likely to join the closures we have heard about in this thread.

Whadya think?

Blue_Wolf

this is a stupid thread. Petrol is at its cheapest since about 4 years. Stop moaning FFS

Guy:Incognito

hobnob101 wrote: »

Why should I be paying more just because I live in Wicklow instead of Naas. If I trusted our government not to make an arse of it I'd be calling for them to regulate the buggers,

Why should they ? The station owners own the petrol and can sell it for €100 a litre if they want, just like any other shop can do with their goods.

hobnob101 wrote: »

They should also have the forsight to buy when prices are low. Don't try to tell me that they just buy on a Monday every week because that's when they buy petrol. That would be plain stupid.

Yeah they should be filling those infiniite capacity tanks when the prices are really low, then they'd never have to buy at a higher rate.

hobnob101 wrote: »

Petrol should become a loss leader.... that would be smart. Attract more business by selling at or slightly under cost. But that wouldn't suit the cartel would it?

It woudl certainly suit all the threads on here about garages ripping us off on the price of everything in their shops.

hobnob101 wrote: »

My favorite station is the Apple Green station on the N7. They have taken the time to make the shop an attractive place (not that any shop is particularly attractive - it's all relative) and also because I like the doughnut sticks they sell there (a USP for me). They still manage to charge lower prices though.

Hang on, so it's ok for them to "rip you off" and make a couple of hundred percent profit on coffee and doughnuts but how dare they make anything up to 5-7% on petrol?

Just as well you have your priorities right.

Shelflife

Originally Posted by hobnob101

Petrol should become a loss leader.... that would be smart. Attract more business by selling at or slightly under cost.

Lol Thats a laugh, by the same token you could offer to work for less so that more companies would want to employ you.

you also said that you HAVE to buy petol, you dont you can walk, cycle take the bus , train to wherever you are going or buy an electric car.
the fact is that you choose to have a petrol car and you choose to buy petrol.

its a bit laughable that you would expect a business to supply a product at cost or below it in order to attract you into their shop, talk about wanting your cake and eating it.

im well aware that supermarkets have loss leaders but that would be the same as a supermarket selling have of their products at cost as opposed to 2 or 3 that they do at the moment.

parsi

All vendors selling product at same price = AA calls it a cartel;

Vendors selling at different prices = AA calls evidence of overcharging.

Which is it ?