Liverpool vs. Madrid Redux

Mr Alan

the dog on the street is wrong, he likes to control games, but its not negative, we create just as many chances as anyone else.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Sunderland? Stoke?

75% possession against Stoke, 21 shots.

72% possession against Sunderland 31 shots.

Oh and vital stat that makes teams champions, United won both games.

ButcherOfNog

It was never a peno, but the way Henzie threw up his arm as the ball came off his shoulder, in real time, made it look terrible suspicious, pull your arms in, not flail them about you eejit. I can see why the peno was given. But it was never a peno

One of the best performances I've seen from Liverpool under Rafa, really ripped into Real and made them look terribly poor.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

but us having scored 3 less than Utd, with our top scorer out all year means we're negative

thought Lucas did well when he came on tonight.

Kuyt was excellent too

A. Gerrard hasnt been out all year

B. are you really gonna try argue the point that benitez is not cautious first.....

Boggles

ButcherOfNog wrote: »

It was never a peno, but the way Henzie threw up his arm as the ball came off his shoulder, in real time, made it look terrible suspicious, pull your arms in, not flail them about you eejit. I can see why the peno was given. But it was never a peno

To be honest I was delighted, Heinze and Ramos should be ashamed of themselves for what they did tonight, Pepe wasn't too far behind, Canavara cared for about 35 minutes and packed it in aswell.

Diarra in fairness to him tried his best at times.

SlickRic

raven136 wrote: »

it was great to see Spearing get a run out,Jeez he is small

and Spud-like.

LuckyLloyd

rossie1977 wrote: »

4 european cup quarter finals in 5 years since rafa took charge and the names of juve, inter, real, barcelona, ac all dispatched, who would have predicted that at approx 10pm on the night of march 25, 2004 when for the second year in a row Houllier's liverpool bowed tamely out of the uefa cup this time to a very average marseille team

Brondby
Celta Vigo
Paris SG
Celtic
Marseilles
FC Basle

Oh, the horror.

Utopia Parkway

Boggles wrote: »

75% possession against Stoke, 21 shots.

72% possession against Sunderland 31 shots.

That's like something Rafa would come out with.

Mr Alan

kryogen wrote: »

A. Gerrard hasnt been out all year

B. are you really gonna try argue the point that benitez is not cautious first.....

i meant top scorer from last year, Torres.

also, gerrard has been out a good chunk of the year too.

Benitez is cautious first, nothing wrong with that....wat top team in England wasnt built around a solid defensive base?

Boggles, you can pull out stats all you want....dont care what they say, maybe Ronaldo was pinging free kicks over the stand to keep the shots up?:D i watched both those games, and Utd were poor, poor, poor. Utd fans were saying the same at the time how you werent even nearly playing well yet etc etc....it irritates me when people try & rewrite history.

LuckyLloyd

Lads, lets not talk about UTD in this thread. It's off topic in here. Thanks.

raven136

Boggles wrote: »

More often than not Rafa is negative Alan, the dog on the street knows it.

whats negative though?its about winning the game first and foremost and if you feel the best way to do that is to defend well and play on the counter is that a problem.

When Rafa took off Torres and brought onb Dossena i was waiting for the gimps in the studiop to tell us that Fergie would have in fact taken off a defender and put on another striker and gone for 8 goals."Thats why Rafa is a chancer Bill,he just doesnt play football the way the great teams like madrid do"i believe something like this was uttered on RTE two weeks ago.

SlickRic

anyone watching RTE?

ronnie whelan is a very irritating man.

he really dislike benitez. he's points are valid-ish, but he really does not seem to want to get behind the team. why can't he just revel in the performance before trying to get his dig in?

ugh.

Mr Alan

apologies LL

Utopia Parkway

SlickRic wrote: »

anyone watching RTE?

ronnie whelan is a very irritating man.

I don't think Ronnie is the sharpest knife in the drawer to be fair.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

i meant top scorer from last year, Torres.

also, gerrard has been out a good chunk of the year too.

Benitez is cautious first, nothing wrong with that....wat top team in England wasnt built around a solid defensive base?

Boggles, you can pull out stats all you want....dont care what they say, maybe Ronaldo was pinging free kicks over the stand to keep the shots up?:D i watched both those games, and Utd were poor, poor, poor. Utd fans were saying the same at the time how you werent even nearly playing well yet etc etc....it irritates me when people try & rewrite history.

United have been poorer this year by our own standards, whats amazing is that when Liverpool are supposedly after moving forward that we are actually closing in on the League title with relative ease, doesnt say a whole lot for the competition does it


Benitez is not an aggressive attacking manager by nature, its his style and thats fair enough, but to argue with you as you try to defend another indefensable point about him is something im gonna let you do with Boggles cause im too tired for it


EDIT: Sorry Llyod, posted before i saw your warning, this will be my last post on the matter!

redout

Boggles wrote: »

Madrid have been severely embarrased for at least the past 2 CL Campaigns, tonight would have been a severe eye opener for many fans, they havn't been hockied like that in 20 years.

If Rafa were to be head hunted, chances are he would be in the job no more than 12 months, if he could restore a small bit of pride into Madrid I think the fans might sacrifice the flair and paniche to insure nights like tonight don't happen for another 20 years.

Maybe there could be some truth in what you are saying Boggles but as you said he would never be a longterm fix. I think Real Madrid fans have become accustomed to no longer being a European heavyweight over recent seasons. They have not made a Q/Final since 2004 and have exited the competition at the last 16 stage for the past five seasons now which has become the norm form them. Other European sides no longer fear the once mighty Los Merengues and the fans are aware of this.

Rafa was also lambasted here in Spain after the first leg for being to defensive and that was not just from the press but also from the mouths of the Real Madrid manager and players so I am not sure they would take him on. But that said I think Benitez pulled off a masterstoke tonight as everyone, Madrid included thought he would go out and play defensive again and hold out for the draw or possibly snatch a goal on the counter. What does he do ? Went for the Jugular and it worked, he totally outfoxed Madrid tonight tactically and one could see after the first 3mins or so after the Torres and Mascherano efforts that Real looked confused and didnt know how to respond as it was apparently clear they were not setup for that.

Boggles

Sorry LL, Alans fault, I think he has been drinking.

Utopia Parkway

If Perez runs for the Real Madrid presidency again and gets it I think it's very unlikely Benitez will be back in Madrid anytime soon. The two of them don't get on apparently.

PHB

Fantastic from pool. With Gerrard and Torres on the pitch, the dynamic totally changes. Madrid were there for the taking and Benetiz just took them. Fantastic performance.

Mr Alan

If Rafa gets the contract he wants....he wont be going to Real.

End of discussion.

If he doesn't get the contract he wants, in my opinion, he would more likely end up at AC Milan after Ancelloti moves to Chelsea in the summer.

Its a testament to how ****ing thick some fans are when some of your own fanbase think a manager should be sacked, yet if he was, he would walk into one of the two biggest jobs in world football.

Boggles

PHB wrote: »

Fantastic from pool. With Gerrard and Torres on the pitch, the dynamic totally changes. Madrid were there for the taking and Benetiz just took them. Fantastic performance.

Torres in the first half actually reminded me of Tevez for his work rate. Great first half performance, he shouldn't have let Heinze wind up him thou, I thought the ref was a bit erratic and was surprised the teams finished with there compliments.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Its a testament to how ****ing thick some fans are when some of your own fanbase think a manager should be sacked, yet if he was, he would walk into one of the two biggest jobs in world football.

Spurs and Ramos immediately spring to mind, what had Ramos accumulated when he left Spurs, 2 points?

K-9

redout wrote: »

Rafa was also lambasted here in Spain after the first leg for being to defensive and that was not just from the press but also from the mouths of the Real Madrid manager and players so I am not sure they would take him on. But that said I think Benitez pulled off a masterstoke tonight as everyone, Madrid included thought he would go out and play defensive again and hold out for the draw or possibly snatch a goal on the counter. What does he do ? Went for the Jugular and it worked, he totally outfoxed Madrid tonight tactically and one could see after the first 3mins or so after the Torres and Mascherano efforts that Real looked confused and didnt know how to respond as it was apparently clear they were not setup for that.

He has done this regularly in Europe.

Hell, even in the odd game away, he has gone on the attack.

I think its a regular pattern, others seem to ignore the obvious, based on preconceived notions of his style.

People don't take Rafa seriously and boy, do they pay.

He exposes the stereotypes, fair play.

Mr Alan

Torres was so wound up cause Cannavaro put in a shocking tackle trying to do him when him & heinze were tusseling. Torres thought it was Heinze i think.

Torres always works like that. Along with his skill, beauty & finishing abilty, its why he is the best.

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

Spurs and Ramos immediately spring to mind, what had Ramos accumulated when he left Spurs, 2 points?

Ramos is a stop gap for Real. This was evident by him getting a six month contract.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ramos is a stop gap for Real. This was evident by him getting a six month contract.

Sure thats only 6 months less than most managers at Madrid get.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ramos is a stop gap for Real. This was evident by him getting a six month contract.

As would Benitez be imo if he were to go to Madrid, they would only want him in to work on building a strong spine again and then when the team is strong again give him the boot and get the free flowing attacking going again....

im not saying thats what we would be told when if he were to go of course, but they do have a bad record in dealing with, well everything!

Capello was brought in to bring stability, he did more then that but he wasnt their kind of guy so off you go!

Del Bosque has always been the most puzzling one though, he wins the Champions League and 3 league titles and hets the boot..... while they were playing good football!!

kinaldo

kryogen wrote: »

Del Bosque has always been the most puzzling one though, he wins the Champions League and 3 league titles and hets the boot..... while they were playing good football!!

I hate this, Eamon Dunphy as usual spouts off some mis-information from his lack of European football knowledge, and then it gets recycled all over. Well done Eamo. Del Bosque won 2 ligas and 2 CLs in 4 seasons with Real, got sacked after winning his second la liga and getting ko'd in the CL semis by eventual winners, Bayern Munich - edit: sorry, mixing 2001 and 2003 up, Capello's Juve team defeated them in the 2003 QFs, that season they destroyed Manchester in Madrid.

I wouldn't worry about Real, they'll be back as usual. In the meantime they can focus on claiming their 3rd liga title on the spin as the fixtures pile up for under pressure Barca. Florentino Perez will return in the summer and spend big. It wouldn't surprise many to see the likes of Kaka and Fabregas at the Bernabeu next season.

~Rebel~

Im sure its already been mentioned, but a special mention for the crowd tonight, sang pretty much none stop for the whole night, and more importantly gave constant support to Rafa throughout the night. Thought it was very classy the way they started singing Jay Spearings name after he came on and got involved. Would have helped make it a really special night for the lad, coming on for Gerrard, against Real Madrid, and having the Kop sing his name.

LuckyLloyd

Barca related posts moved to the appropriate thread.

MisterAnarchy

Boggles wrote: »

To be honest I was delighted, Heinze and Ramos should be ashamed of themselves for what they did tonight, Pepe wasn't too far behind, Canavara cared for about 35 minutes and packed it in aswell.

Diarra in fairness to him tried his best at times.

Heinze has been a liability all season.He is a woefully limited player.
Actually I am baffled how he gets in both the Madrid and Argentina squads,he is technically so poor.
Pepe is a poor defender too.

Ramos is a shadow of himself lately,probably worn out after the last few seasons.

Madrid were toothless tonight.They should have expected that early onslaught from Liverpool yet they buckled with relative ease .
They were porous at the back against Athletico at the weekend and could have conceded 5 or 6 .
Benitez did his homework well.
I cant see Benitez ever getting the Real job though and if he did he wouldnt last long.
The white hankies would be out after a full months ,his style of football wouldnt be tolerated by the fans ,its just not attractive enough.

On a side note Liverpool are like a Jekyl and Hyde team ,one match they are viewed as great the next they are rubbish.
After beating Real 2 weeks ago they were lauding Benitez as a genius,3 days later against Boro ,he was being derided.
Its a funny old world.

Jazzy

i havent read the thread but have had a brilliant night... all i can presume is that boggles is trying to tell us that in reality beating real 4 - 0 isnt that good and that really liverpool are sh1t.

to that i say


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha boggles hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah boggles hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

ooooohhhh utd are so great. pretty much the default best team in europe. tons of excitement to be had there. in fact, so exciting that u must not be ar$ed to talk about them cos its all been said how easy it is. best rag on the rivals to get that sense of self achievement without action that we so desire


ps - hahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahhahaha

Sherifu

Didn't get to see the game :mad: but what a result.

/goes off to seek highlights

yom 1

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Im sure its already been mentioned, but a special mention for the crowd tonight, sang pretty much none stop for the whole night, and more importantly gave constant support to Rafa throughout the night. Thought it was very classy the way they started singing Jay Spearings name after he came on and got involved. Would have helped make it a really special night for the lad, coming on for Gerrard, against Real Madrid, and having the Kop sing his name.

Yeah I was thinking that myself last night. What a great night it was for him.

Was also glad that the crowd gave a big cheer to Lucas when he came on.

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

ntlbell springs to mind, is boggles here? Neil1984?

I'm here. I believe I did say congrats to Liverpool, and I'll say it again, well done Liverpool, great performance, great result. They beat the absolute p1ss outta what was in front of them. I actually didn't say one negative thing at all Mikey.

They shut Madrid down, they hassled them and they scored 4 well worked goals and were by far the better team. 4-0 flattered Madrid. But I was more impressed by the 1-0 win away from home because Madrid actually showed up for the 1st half at least, now THAT was a performance to be reckoned with. This was an excellent performance against a sh1te side who happen to have some world class players that are too used to winning games without putting any effort in. Now I don't see how that takes away from Liverpools performance at all, they beat what was in front of them which is all you can do.

But it's not a crime to state the bleedin obvious and say Madrid were rubbish. They played like they didn't care and got what they deserved, an absolute spanking. On paper they have the players to be a decent team, in practice they're a shambles. When your goalkeeper is MOTM in a 4-0 defeat you know you're sh1t. How many shots on goal did Madrid create? I can think of one chance they had which was forged by a mistake from Skrtel and a few fluffed shots from distance. Yes Liverpool stopped them from playing but any team playing in any way to their ability will create a few chances regardless of how good the opposition defence is.

mike65

Real had 15 shots, 3 on target but two of them were routine straight at Reina shots, Liverpool had 15 shots, 12 on target.

mike65

mike65 wrote: »

Real had 15 shots, 3 on target but two of them were routine straight at Reina shots, Liverpool had 15 shots, 12 on target.

So their one clear shot on target was the one created from Skrtels mistake is that correct?

The rest were hail marys from distance?? I did switch over to the Chelsea game after a bit so I'm not sure.

Dcully

Great performance and result.
We may not be the number one team in the world but damn it we have always had the best fans in the world.
Lastnight prove that yet again.

lint316

Was a great performance. I had Gerry and the Pacemakers blasting in the car on the way in this morning. The players are there for Liverpool to be the best in the world. If he could set them up to play like that in every game instead of being so negative we would be a serious force to be reckoned with. Anyway, excellent performance by all. Great to see Jay Spearing come on and play so well. Babel had a good game too I thought and I myself have been fairly critical of him lately.

herbieflowers

I dunno, Real were poor, but Liverpool's work in midfield was immense. Admittedly, defensively Real were shocking, but I think mistakes were made because of that initial onslaught, Pool barely gave time for Real to catch their breath!

Also, how many times were attacks snuffed out in the midfield area? Liverpool were physically imposing last night, energetic, basically wanted it more than Real. Real could barely get close to the Liverpool goal! Another great night for Pool (should it really be a surprise? )

mike65

Torres was under the influence of a pain killering jab last night which might explain some of his mad running about and general liveliness, hope his has another, saturday

Nce quote from Times

Raúl barely had a kick. The nearest he got to greatness was when he shook Gerrard by the hand.

SlickRic

Jazzy wrote: »

i havent read the thread but have had a brilliant night... all i can presume is that boggles is trying to tell us that in reality beating real 4 - 0 isnt that good and that really liverpool are sh1t.

to be fair he hasn't.

him, as well as all the utd fans, have been congratulatory actually.

but it's also right to point out that while we were wonderful, madrid were a shadow of their former selves. they just got blown away. it doesn't take away from how great we were, but we have to recognise that madrid were poor.

while its amazing for us Pool fans...in the grand scheme of world football, it was a little sad to see.

mayordenis

Liverpool were great and didn't give Madrid a chance to stop them.

Liverpool were great but only because Madrid gave them the game.

Liverpool were average and took apart a woeful Madrid team.

Liverpool were poor and should of beaten a shockingly bad Madrid team by more.

etc.etc.

take your pick

SlickRic

mayordenis wrote: »

Liverpool were great and didn't give Madrid a chance to stop them.

Liverpool were great but only because Madrid gave them the game.

a mix between these two.

we got at them so quickly and in their faces that they didn't have a chance to play, and were skillful and crisp with the ball, absolutely.

but a top-notch madrid team should have been ready to combat it in some way.

i'm not complaining, but we have to accept the other teams flaws. benitez exposed these flaws brilliantly in the way he set us up, but again a top madrid team should have been able to fight back at least a little.

diarra and casillas were the only ones, from what i could see, who can genuinely claim that they did.

Unearthly

SlickRic wrote: »

...in the grand scheme of world football, it was a little sad to see.

I for one won't be playing a violin anytime soon for Madrid when they get hammered.

mayordenis

Actually a little gutted for Iker, what a top player he is. The Shay Given comparisons someone made are so spot on.

SlickRic

Unearthly wrote: »

I for one won't be playing a violin anytime soon for Madrid when they get hammered.

agreed.

i hate the way the club is run and how they go about their business.

but when i think of football tradition, and where they stand in the game in that respect, its very weird to see them get hammered like that.

something in me will always expect more from them. maybe its just me

monkey9

As a Liverpool fan, last night was really the last straw for me. Rafa has to be sacked!!!!
For too long now, we have had to suffer while watching the club stagger to Champions League finals, (winning one), semi finals etc, while despatching teams like Barca, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Ac Milan, Inter Milan, Arsenal, Juventus and such like.
For the last 19 years, we have been able to watch as we struggle to put up any sort of league challenge, but at least we didn't have to watch us be embarrassed in Europe. Defeats against the likes of Strasbourg, Brondy, Celtic, Celta Vigo, Marseille and others could always be looked upon with such pride as we at least put in some effort against them.
But last night was truly shocking!! I think it's fair to say that the match was all about Real Madrid. They just didn't turn up. Absolutely awful stuff!! They were a disgrace and allowed Liverpool the ball.
The fact it was only four shows Benitez up for the clown he is. Torres should have had a hat trick, but only got one. He's a perfect example of Benitez's incompentence in the transfer market when given money to spend. All Mascherano did was run around like a headless chicken, winning tackles and breaking up any sort of Madrid attack!! I mean, these are Benitez signings!!!! He has only himself to blame.
And to top it off, instead of going for the jugular, what does he do. Only takes off our captain and talismann and replaces him with a reserve player. Benitez hasn't a f*cking clue!!!
Get rid of him and bring in someone who understands the club, a legend. Someone like Ronnie Whelan maybe!!

SlickRic

monkey9 wrote: »

As a Liverpool fan, last night was really the last straw for me. Rafa has to be sacked!!!!
For too long now, we have had to suffer while watching the club stagger to Champions League finals, (winning one), semi finals etc, while despatching teams like Barca, Real Madrid, Chelsea, Ac Milan, Inter Milan, Arsenal, Juventus and such like.
For the last 19 years, we have been able to watch as we struggle to put up any sort of league challenge, but at least we didn't have to watch us be embarrassed in Europe. Defeats against the likes of Strasbourg, Brondy, Celtic, Celta Vigo, Marseille and others could always be looked upon with such pride as we at least put in some effort against them.
But last night was truly shocking!! I think it's fair to say that the match was all about Real Madrid. They just didn't turn up. Absolutely awful stuff!! They were a disgrace and allowed Liverpool the ball.
The fact it was only four shows Benitez up for the clown he is. Torres should have had a hat trick, but only got one. He's a perfect example of Benitez's incompentence in the transfer market when given money to spend. All Mascherano did was run around like a headless chicken, winning tackles and breaking up any sort of Madrid attack!! I mean, these are Benitez signings!!!! He has only himself to blame.
And to top it off, instead of going for the jugular, what does he do. Only takes off our captain and talismann and replaces him with a reserve player. Benitez hasn't a f*cking clue!!!
Get rid of him and bring in someone who understands the club, a legend. Someone like Ronnie Whelan maybe!!

nobody's saying any of this.

i think the general consensus from fans is we were incredibly good last night, while at the same time madrid weren't at it.

nobody is taking anything away from liverpool, they've been congratulated numerous times from fans of all clubs for their performance. what more do we want?

madrid, with the pedigree they have, and their inability to compete in any way with what they came up against, no matter how good we were, is a valid talking point.

it doesn't take away from Liverpool though.

Mr Alan

Madrid being the form team in Europe when this draw was made is also a valid talking point.