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Shooting incident in Craigavon

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    #92
    g5fd6ow0hseima
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭g5fd6ow0hseima


    pithater1 wrote: »
    We need to send OUR army up there to assist the security forces up there. That will send a strong message to those scum that they have no mandate whatsoever from us.
    Yeah, Oglaidh na hEireann serving within the six counties.

    That would realllllllly appease the unionist community!


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    #93
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    PK2008 wrote: »
    Id imagine that would go down like a lead balloon with the unionist community

    But yeh, these guys are the scum of the earth and have no support


    Possibly, but UK troops seems to have gone down like a lead baloon the last time this all kicked off. Perhaps the idea of a bilateral peacekeeping force up North, while certainly pissing off certain loyalist elements, would sooth nationalists and show that we as a country have finally grown up.


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    #94
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Wikipedia would be a less than compelling source for hard info about terrorists.

    If the R-IRA are behind this then all bets are off as regards what could happen next. SF are going to come under quite a bit of pressure from the nationalist mainstream, to be seen to lead from the front against these nutjobs. Its not only a security issue, its a challange to all on the Peace Process train.


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    #95
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Unbelievable odds of 36 hours out of 12 years. Soldiers shot 36 hours after Chief Constable confirms covert British Operations

    http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=822


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    #96
    Poccington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Poccington


    mike65 wrote: »
    Wikipedia would be a less than compelling source for hard info about terrorists.

    If the P-IRA are behind this then all bets are off as regards what could happen next. SF are going to come under quite a bit of pressure from the nationalist mainstream, to be seen to lead from the front against these nutjobs. Its not only a security issue, its a challange to all on the Peace Process train.

    Of all the Dissident groups that could be behind this, I'd put the PIRA as the least likely to have had a hand in this.


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    #97
    g5fd6ow0hseima
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭g5fd6ow0hseima


    Mairt wrote: »
    But it doesn't look at the support they have in their communities!.

    These animals can not operate without at least some support in their communities. They need safe houses, they need people looking after arms dumps and people gathering intelligence on the security forces etc.

    Logistically & tactically they can not operate without this support.

    .
    Maybe its just a small cell.

    Groups like November 17 and the Baader-Meinhof gang existed for lenghtly periods inflicting much havok with such small numbers within their organisation. Were talking less than twenty or so.

    In the3 current climate in the six counties, a small gang could wreak havok easily.


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    #98
    PrivateEye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭PrivateEye


    RIRA, not CIRA

    Read the text I quoted.

    Another poster mentioned the CIRA. They are infiltrated to the nines. As I said, they can't move without their friends in London knowing about it by all accounts.


    you would be surprised at the amount of people who will sympathise with the IRA on this particaulary SF voters.

    Do you know something we don't?

    From July 2005:

    "All IRA units have been ordered to dump arms.
    All Volunteers have been instructed to assist the development of purely political and democratic programmes through exclusively peaceful means."


    This is designed to publicially make fools of SF. Its their biggest nightmare. People who 'sympathise with the IRA' are probably all feeling the same feelings at the minute, which is a sense of 'what are these morons at?'

    Nightmare scenario for SF, and puts the retired IRA in a very awkward place. Do they step in and put these lads down? Do they stand back and do nothing? Do they even have the authority anymore? A mess for everyone.

    Leifs points about social insurrectionist groups like Baader Meinhof is very true too. A crowd called Revolutionary Struggle in Greece lately have been pulling stunts similar to whats happening in the six counties at the minute and estimates say they've basically NO members. A handful of people can create chaos sadly.


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    #99
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Unbelievable odds of 36 hours out of 12 years. Soldiers shot 36 hours after Chief Constable confirms covert British Operations

    http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=822

    This is all down to Orde's announcement. But with transparency agreements etc how can it possibly be avoided?


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    #100
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    Tom65 wrote: »
    32 County Sovereignty Movement represents the RIRA.

    oh ya, well where's their headquarters and lets demonstrate!!


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    #101
    mumhaabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭mumhaabu


    It appears that more than one Police officer was shot and bombs were also involved.

    Source.


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    #102
    li@mo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭li@mo


    mike65 wrote: »
    Wikipedia would be a less than compelling source for hard info about terrorists.

    I know but i was looking for some background info. My Northern history knowledge is limited


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    #103
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    PrivateEye wrote: »
    Read the text I quoted.

    Another poster mentioned the CIRA. They are infiltrated to the nines. As I said, they can't move without their friends in London knowing about it by all accounts.

    Previously the RIRA were so infiltrated that they might as well have benn part of the public sector, looks like things might have changed.

    cui bono is the order of the day.


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    #104
    Tom65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭Tom65


    mike65 wrote: »
    Wikipedia would be a less than compelling source for hard info about terrorists.

    If the R-IRA are behind this then all bets are off as regards what could happen next. SF are going to come under quite a bit of pressure from the nationalist mainstream, to be seen to lead from the front against these nutjobs. Its not only a security issue, its a challange to all on the Peace Process train.

    This is easier for SF (politically) than members of the British Army being killed. They are part of the police, whereas the army are an occupying force (their interpretation, not mine). They'll come out and condemn this, and condemn the RIRA for the attack. It's less complex for them than Saturday's attack.


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    #105
    MonkeyTennis
    Registered Users Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭MonkeyTennis


    these people are criminals, nothing more and should be treated as such. These are not political killings, they have no support..pure scum


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    #106
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Bambi wrote: »
    cue bono is the order of the day.

    + 1

    Not a bad idea!
    Geldof - Bono - even Enya! Get the world media attention and at least show our side!
    We just can't sit back and just shake our heads in silence.


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    #107
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Please don't make this an PIRA thread. For once there is unity on this issue.

    RTDH, Enough of the conspiracy theories. Yes, MI5 etc. operate in the North, etc, Special Branch etc. etc. The Dirty War is recommended reading about what really went on in the North, as unbiased as you'll get from 80's Northern history.

    This isn't the 80's.

    If anything, people want normailty and agreement, then a power sharing Govt. With full control over policing.

    Please don't fall for conspiracies. The aim should be a fully functioning NI Govt. with full control over the PSNI and MI5.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #108
    Fishtits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭Fishtits


    I reckon these guys will be picked up, intel know each and every one of them. They know this as well...

    This event was their last hurrah IMHO.

    The onslaught will finally squat them.

    As an aside, and with no disrespect, piss poor security at the front gate...


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    #109
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    one saving grace is this............

    its a a different ireland, from the ireland of the troubles

    irish people these days are much more sophisticated/saavy and won't fall for the brits out!! spin that sinn fein used back in the day


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    #110
    g5fd6ow0hseima
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭g5fd6ow0hseima


    Well the killing of two british soldiers on the ireland of ireland isnt anything but a political killing in my opinion. To those who oppose British rule, British soldiers are legitimite targets. By saying this, im not condoning the recent ongoings, but simply acknowledging the fact that there are many out there who still view the six counties as under occupation.


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    #111
    Alessandra
    Registered Users Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭Alessandra


    fryup wrote: »

    irish people these days are much more sophisticated/saavy and won't fall for the brits out!! spin that sinn fein used back in the day

    saying that there are still the hardcore fundamentalists who will go to any lengths. All it takes is a few lunatics..


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    #112
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    fryup wrote: »
    one saving grace is this............

    its a a different ireland, from the ireland of the troubles

    irish people these days are much more sophisticated/saavy and won't fall for the brits out!! spin that sinn fein used back in the day

    Wouldn't be too sure about that. Remember, there are still plenty of neanderthals on this island. The Love Ulster debacle springs to mind. :rolleyes:


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    #113
    Latchy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,191 ✭✭✭✭Latchy


    Considering that on friday ,the top NI policeman said they were at the highest state of attack by dissidents ,it would have made sense to have had high alert security at all police /military basis.The killers managed to pass a heavely fortified police station to get to the barracks on saturday .


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    #114
    wilson10
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭wilson10


    Carmen Big Labyrinth wrote: »
    Well the killing of two british soldiers on the ireland of ireland isnt anything but a political killing in my opinion. To those who oppose British rule, British soldiers are legitimite targets. By saying this, im not condoning the recent ongoings, but simply acknowledging the fact that there are many out there who still view the six counties as under occupation.

    In other words you are an apologist for murdering criminals. You can't have it both ways and say you don't condone it but it's political which makes it ok.


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    #115
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    pithater1 wrote: »
    Wouldn't be too sure about that. Remember, there are still plenty of neanderthals on this island. The Love Ulster debacle springs to mind. :rolleyes:

    yes point understood, but compared with back in the day irish people (generally speaking) are alot more broadminded and less militant than back then


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    #116
    utick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 562 ✭✭✭utick


    fryup wrote: »
    yes point understood, but compared with back in the day irish people (generally speaking) are alot more broadminded and less militant than back then


    that reamins to be seen have you seen some of the comments on the youtube videos about the troubles in the north? and from one of the links earlier in this thread was about fresh grafiti in loyalist areas saying ' an eye for an eye - back to war'

    i dont know if thats all true or just media people trying to stir sh1t, hopefully later


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    #117
    jakedixon2004
    Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭jakedixon2004


    I have a wide knowledge of the IRA's history and the Troubles.
    This is however nothing like I have ever seen. These shootings were random. I mean there was more than 60 bullets from AK-47's pumped into two unarmed men on Saturday and then today with the shooting of the policeman. It can in no way be justified. And then by Sky news calling these men "terrorists" just further adds to the confusion. I mean , what do they think they are fighting for , freedom? These attacks were unjustified and downright pointless, and for these "terrorists" to think otherwise is just madness. The situation and feelings in Northern Ireland have changed in the past 30 years and for them to think that these attacks will fuel the fire for another attempted separation from the UK is retarded. These attacks will not go unpunished and when the culprits are found, God have no mercy on their souls.


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    #118
    Myxomatosis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 429 ✭✭Myxomatosis


    The last police officers to be murdered were killed by the Provisional IRA - they were shot in the same area in June 1997. Roland Graham and David Johnston, both community constables, were shot by two IRA gunmen who ran up and shot them in the backs of their heads while they were on foot patrol in Lurgan.

    Imagine walking along the street, doing your job to earn money to live your life and in a flash your dead. You don't even get the chance to stare death in the eyes and 'prepare' yourself, if even for a second. You probably wouldn't hear even hear the bang.

    It most take a very cold, evil person to take someones life.

    On a very superficial level I disagree with an English presence on Irish soil. But at the end of the day, these are real people like you and me that are dying, regardless of weather they are in the army or police force which may make them acceptable targets by some peoples standards.

    After such a long time (12 years) it's hard to believe that I am hearing news stories like this again. I was only a kid the last time I remember seeing stories like this.

    Loyalist paramilitaries are now going to retaliate, probably hit a very soft target (it's not as if they have soldiers to target) to try and prove a point.

    With all the talk that the country is going back to the 80's I never imagined that meant violence would also be making a return.

    This country of ours is well and truly ****ed.


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    #119
    df1985
    Registered Users Posts: 4,432 ✭✭✭df1985


    what worries me is the way the british rags report this in england.big dramatic headlines that are designed to shock and almost frighten.ireland and the irish come across badly and millions of british people reading about it in the morning in that way isnt good news for any irish person, catholic or otherwise.


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    #120
    g5fd6ow0hseima
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭g5fd6ow0hseima


    wilson10 wrote: »
    In other words you are an apologist for murdering criminals. You can't have it both ways and say you don't condone it but it's political which makes it ok.
    Crime is committed for its benefits. Did those who shot the two soldiers set out to benefit the way criminals do? They set out to create political upheavel. Therefore, its political, not criminal.

    You see, some people cant move on. I can, im glad to see the back of it all, but you and I have to accept there will always be extremist factions in this world.


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    #121
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Carmen Big Labyrinth wrote: »
    Well the killing of two british soldiers on the ireland of ireland isnt anything but a political killing in my opinion. To those who oppose British rule, British soldiers are legitimite targets. By saying this, im not condoning the recent ongoings, but simply acknowledging the fact that there are many out there who still view the six counties as under occupation.


    Pizza ordering.

    Enough.
    latchyco wrote: »
    Considering that on friday ,the top NI policeman said they were at the highest state of attack by dissidents ,it would have made sense to have had high alert security at all police /military basis.The killers managed to pass a heavely fortified police station to get to the barracks on saturday .

    heavily fortified? Please explain what you mean?

    As in Kellogs Corn Flakes?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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