Should Ireland rejoin the Commonwealth?

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

That is not a reasonable comparison. membershiip does not depend on religion, or any other criteria for that matter, other than a willingness to participate in the common goals.

....and the recognition of an un-elected monarch as 'head of the commonwealth'. Dated, anachronistic, nonsense.

Fratton Fred

Absolam wrote: »

I'd say no.. I'm proud to be Irish and proud that we are independant of English rule. I would like to see a united Ireland, but wouldn't compromise our independance for it. We are already economically dependant on the UK in lots of ways, but that's a feature of geography and not one of political will (on either side of the Irish sea). I doubt that membership of the British commonwealth would bring sufficient economic value to be worth it.. unlike for instance membership of a federal Europe, which might yet.

Read some of the links posted. It has nothing to do with independance.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

....and the recognition of an un-elected monarch as 'head of the commonwealth'. Dated, anachronistic, nonsense.

so who will elect the next head of the EU? what if that was one of the many european monarchs? would you leave?

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

so who will elect the next head of the EU? what if that was one of the many european monarchs? would you leave?

If a European monarch enters democratic politics and does well, fair play to them. If however, by some strange means, some monarch is made permanent, heriditary head of the organisation, then bollocks to that.

getz

Communicationb wrote: »

You must remember that the UK has not adopted the Euro so the costs of importing to the UK is very high anyway..Ireland was exporting to the Uk long before the EU was established so I dont buy that argument.

Why would the UK leave the Common Market? they will join the Euro before that happens

You say that Ireland wld be better off in the Commonwealth.. How exactly?

remember if the uk had not joined the eu the irish republic would not have-all commonwealth countrys gain by being part of the largest club in the world some by trade some by financial and educational help plus of the sporting side-and as you know your goverment has been talking about it for some time--havent they asked the queen to visit shortly?

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

If a European monarch enters democratic politics and does well, fair play to them. If however, by some strange means, some monarch is made permanent, heriditary head of the organisation, then bollocks to that.

http://www.thecommonwealth.org/Internal/34493/150757/head_of_the_commonwealth/

When the Queen dies or if she abdicates, her heir will not automatically become Head of the Commonwealth. It will be up to the Commonwealth heads of government to decide what they want to do about this symbolic role.

Communicationb

Fratton Fred wrote: »

so if joining the commonwealth was a condition of a united ireland, you would rather maintain the status quo?

There is a difference between remembering the past and learning from it than living in it.

it is 2009 and people are stil harping on about Britain's war with the Zulus for gods sake

I havent seen the post re war with Zulus..

The illegal invasion of another sovereign country to wage an illegal war in Iraq is in the year 2009? And Britain is playing a staring role..

But this is not about "Brit" bashing...there is absolutely no advantage or need to join the Commonwealth..

Lets look at the countries in the Commonwealth..the vast majority are hardly anything to shout about..Ireland has absolutely nothing in common with the vast majority of the countries in the Commonwealth..so why would anyone here be in the least bit inclined to hook up with some God foresaken island in the pacific. The Commwealth seems to have been Briatins way of easing its own historical guilt...

As for a united Ireland..the mechanism for that is contained in the Good Friday Agreement in due course and I didnt see any mention of joining the Commonwealth as a precondition...so that point is irrelevant

getz

Communicationb wrote: »

I havent seen the post re war with Zulus..

The illegal invasion of another sovereign country to wage an illegal war in Iraq is in the year 2009? And Britain is playing a staring role..

But this is not about "Brit" bashing...there is absolutely no advantage or need to join the Commonwealth..

Lets look at the countries in the Commonwealth..the vast majority are hardly anything to shout about..Ireland has absolutely nothing in common with the vast majority of the countries in the Commonwealth..so why would anyone here be in the least bit inclined to hook up with some God foresaken island in the pacific. The Commwealth seems to have been Briatins way of easing its own historical guilt...

As for a united Ireland..the mechanism for that is contained in the Good Friday Agreement in due course and I didnt see any mention of joining the Commonwealth as a precondition...so that point is irrelevant

there talks a man who has never left home

Communicationb

getz wrote: »

remember if the uk had not joined the eu the irish republic would not have-all commonwealth countrys gain by being part of the largest club in the world some by trade some by financial and educational help plus of the sporting side-and as you know your goverment has been talking about it for some time--havent they asked the queen to visit shortly?

Source? If our Government have been talking about this for some time they are certainly keeping it very very quiet...as for the queen of England (Mrs Windsor) visiting, that has nothing whatsoever to do with the Commonwealth its about finalising normal diplomatic relations and a symbolic gesture re the new found political understanding between both countries ie. the Peace Process (I wont be out welcoming her thats for sure...lol....I live in a Republic and her institution is a relic)

Communicationb

getz wrote: »

there talks a man who has never left home

LOL...:pac::pac:

I'll have you know I spent 5 years in Birmingham (Uk) and Boston so spare me the ad hominem:rolleyes:

getz

Communicationb wrote: »

Source? If our Government have been talking about this for some time they are certainly keeping it very very quiet...as for the queen of England (Mrs Windsor) visiting, that has nothing whatsoever to do with the Commonwealth its about finalising normal diplomatic relations and a symbolic gesture re the new found political understanding between both countries ie. the Peace Process (I wont be out welcoming her thats for sure...lol....I live in a Republic and her institution is a relic)

sorry pall its called[in politics]the softening up process /by the way i have just spent a month on holiday in the republic all the irish i have met seem to have british familys and dont knock the brits-in fact they love the irish/brit banter

Communicationb

getz wrote: »

sorry pall its called[in politics]the softening up process /by the way i have just spent a month on holiday in the republic all the irish i have met seem to have british familys and dont knock the brits-in fact they love the irish/brit banter

So let me get this straight...

Plans for Mrs Elizabeth Windsor to visit the Republic are actaully part of a softeninig up process to have Ireland join the Commonwealth..either you have some fantastic high level government source or someone is filling you full of crap...:)

You are surprised that people in the Republic dont hate the British....if thats news to you then it is you who needs to get out more...pal..;)..

By the way my g/friend is English. I have great fun over there and spend a lot of time in England..bet that surprises you too..

junder

the RoI of Ireland joining the Commonwealth is irrelevent to us unionists. we are nither for it or against. Interestingly the BNP talks alot about the RoI joining the Commonwealth they also talk about reunification of Ireland under the British flag, failing to ask us in northern ireland what we thought of the whole idea (and incase your wondering we are not interested in unification wether its inside or outside the Union) Seen a picture of these BNP cretins holding up a BNP banner in Liverpool, on it it talked about the 4 nations of Britain and in the 4 Corners it had 4 flags, The Flag of Saint George, The Flag of Saint Andrew, the Welsh flag and a Tricolour (no Northern irish Flag to be seen)

thebman

getz wrote: »

sorry pall its called[in politics]the softening up process /by the way i have just spent a month on holiday in the republic all the irish i have met seem to have british familys and dont knock the brits-in fact they love the irish/brit banter

I don't think any Irish person hates most sound British people they met.

Nationality is a bad way to determine whether you like someone or not.

That is separate from wanting to enter into a union of nations as we have to consider if policies are agreeable, the directions we want to head in are the same, if it is in fact beneficial to us in anyway etc...

At the moment I can't see any economic or social benefit from joining the Commonwealth.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

http://www.thecommonwealth.org/Internal/34493/150757/head_of_the_commonwealth/

Should it be made a more modern organisation, then it can be considered.

Communicationb

junder wrote: »

the RoI of Ireland joining the Commonwealth is irrelevent to us unionists. we are nither for it or against. Interestingly the BNP talks alot about the RoI joining the Commonwealth they also talk about reunification of Ireland under the British flag, failing to ask us in northern ireland what we thought of the whole idea (and incase your wondering we are not interested in unification wether its inside or outside the Union) Seen a picture of these BNP cretins holding up a BNP banner in Liverpool, on it it talked about the 4 nations of Britain and in the 4 Corners it had 4 flags, The Flag of Saint George, The Flag of Saint Andrew, the Welsh flag and a Tricolour (no Northern irish Flag to be seen)

As a matter of interest, why would the BNP (not that we should give them any time) want Ireland united under a British flag and in the Commonwealth?

c4cat

Bond-007 wrote: »

My mother has used her British Subject passport many times to travel from Ireland. Always handy to have if you ever need to ditch the Irish one.

Why would one ever need to ditch ones Irish passport...........????????

getz

Communicationb wrote: »

So let me get this straight...

Plans for Mrs Elizabeth Windsor to visit the Republic are actaully part of a softeninig up process to have Ireland join the Commonwealth..either you have some fantastic high level government source or someone is filling you full of crap...:)

You are surprised that people in the Republic dont hate the British....if thats news to you then it is you who needs to get out more...pal..;)..

By the way my g/friend is English. I have great fun over there and spend a lot of time in England..bet that surprises you too..

i just dont understand it -you hate the brits /you have a english girlfriend /you have a great time in england/ come on your trying to wind me up ? but saying that there is a lot of brits dont know that people in southern ireland are not british , because as you now know one in three of us brits are part irish and over 6.5 million brits can claim a irish passport thats twice the number of people living in the republic[its called banter]

Communicationb

getz wrote: »

i just dont understand it -you hate the brits /you have a english girlfriend /you have a great time in england/ come on your trying to wind me up ? but saying that there is a lot of brits dont know that people in southern ireland are not british , because as you now know one in three of us brits are part irish and over 6.5 million brits can claim a irish passport thats twice the number of people living in the republic[its called banter]

When did I ever post anything that indicated I "hate the brits".

Just because I see absolutely no reason why Ireland should join the Commonwealth and I wish to see Ireland as a strong independant nation free from British interference does not mean I hate the brits.

I most certainly do not "hate the brits" and I am shocked to have such an attitude associated with me.

thebman

Communicationb wrote: »

As a matter of interest, why would the BNP (not that we should give them any time) want Ireland united under a British flag and in the Commonwealth?

lol, more worried about how they intend to achieve that goal when we have no interest in it.

Should we be preparing for an invasion? :pac:

I think the BNP have many other problems other than that anyway. I'd feel sorry for the British if they did make the mistake of giving them power.

getz

thebman wrote: »

I don't think any Irish person hates most sound British people they met.

Nationality is a bad way to determine whether you like someone or not.

That is separate from wanting to enter into a union of nations as we have to consider if policies are agreeable, the directions we want to head in are the same, if it is in fact beneficial to us in anyway etc...

At the moment I can't see any economic or social benefit from joining the Commonwealth.

there is a good irish web site www.reform.org that deals with anglo/irish relations in there articles it tells you the reason why the republic left the commonwealth its a very good and interesting site

junder

Communicationb wrote: »

As a matter of interest, why would the BNP (not that we should give them any time) want Ireland united under a British flag and in the Commonwealth?

I hate and dispise the BNP so i would be the wrong person to ask, since my immidate answer would be that it is because they are W**KERS

Fratton Fred

thebman wrote: »

I think the BNP have many other problems other than that anyway. I'd feel sorry for the British if they did make the mistake of giving them power.

trust me in this, it aint gonna happen.

In Britain there isn't a past colonial master to direct hatred at, so those with inadequacies and pent up anger drift towards the BNP.

As junder says, they are ****.

Fratton Fred

junder wrote: »

the RoI of Ireland joining the Commonwealth is irrelevent to us unionists. we are nither for it or against. Interestingly the BNP talks alot about the RoI joining the Commonwealth they also talk about reunification of Ireland under the British flag, failing to ask us in northern ireland what we thought of the whole idea (and incase your wondering we are not interested in unification wether its inside or outside the Union) Seen a picture of these BNP cretins holding up a BNP banner in Liverpool, on it it talked about the 4 nations of Britain and in the 4 Corners it had 4 flags, The Flag of Saint George, The Flag of Saint Andrew, the Welsh flag and a Tricolour (no Northern irish Flag to be seen)

I have never heard that about the BNP, they really are a bunch of space cadets. I didn't consider that Unionists wouldn't want a united Ireland under the Union either. it is good to hear it straight from the horses mouth (So to speak).

Nodin wrote: »

Should it be made a more modern organisation, then it can be considered.

How much more modern do you want? A secular organisation that promotes common goals, the head of which is elected by its members, the symbolic head of which is elected for life and their successor elected on their death.

it is as open and democratic as a world organisation can be.

I have to say, there is a typical Irish attitude to it though. it is not a case of "what does the commonwealth do, how can we contribute" it is "What can we get out of it".

A bit like Ireland's approach to the EU.

gurramok

getz wrote:

i think ireland would be better off if it joined the commonwealth i know that most countrys in it say thay are better off- i can understand why a lot of people in the republic hate the idea of joining anything that sounds british after all the irish version of irish history has been pushed into them by the church and republician dogma-i noticed the stink that came about after the showing of cromwell on tv-as far as the EW.has anyone thought what would happen if the uk left the commen market ?ireland would lose 60% in exports-and the cost of shipping to the eu main land would be far to high-before you have ago at me, yes i went to school in ireland and at times i felt just like the little jewish boy must have felt in germany [because i was born in england]

What a pile of rubbish.

I too was born in the UK, the heart of it, in London. You saying the vast majority of Irish history is a lie?:rolleyes:

Fratton Fred wrote: »

http://www.thecommonwealth.org/Internal/34493/38150/modern_commonwealth/

The Quenn is the head of state of 15 of the 52 members, not all of which were past members of the empire.

Why are there no industrialised countries without any British Interference in its history in the commonwealth then?

Most countries listed are 3rd world bar the two plus UK I mention next.

For Europe, only Uk, Cyprus and Malta are members. I'd like to know why the other 30 or so countries in Europe are not members if its such a neutral organisation??

When the Queen dies or if she abdicates, her heir will not automatically become Head of the Commonwealth. It will be up to the Commonwealth heads of government to decide what they want to do about this symbolic role.

Lets wait till then, probably donkeys years
Anyway Junder who has claimed to be a member of the PUP in another thread has torpedoed the proposal

junder

I have not torpedoed the idea i only pointed out that the republic joining or not joining the commonwealth is of no interest to unionists, if you joined i would welcome you with open arms but i am not going to lose any sleep if you carry on not being members. The pro and cons of the RoI joining the RoI are for yourselfs to decided

FYI the BNP want the RoI to rejoin the union under some sort of Federalist arrangemnt for the governace of the UK

Communicationb

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I have never heard that about the BNP, they really are a bunch of space cadets. I didn't consider that Unionists wouldn't want a united Ireland under the Union either. it is good to hear it straight from the horses mouth (So to speak).



How much more modern do you want? A secular organisation that promotes common goals, the head of which is elected by its members, the symbolic head of which is elected for life and their successor elected on their death.

it is as open and democratic as a world organisation can be.

I have to say, there is a typical Irish attitude to it though. it is not a case of "what does the commonwealth do, how can we contribute" it is "What can we get out of it".

A bit like Ireland's approach to the EU.

TBH I think you are looking to much into...I have had many topical/polictical/current affairs discussions over the years and Ireland vis a vis the Commonwealth has never cropped up..so I feel that the Commonwealth is not relevant in Ireland today and pretty much of no relevance.

So Ireland has self serving motives..no surprise and not unique there? What country doesnt? Isnt that what politics is all about?

MarkTheChap

Resounding No from me and the boys in the reserves.

Its all about perspective you see. It's a step backwards in the same was walking home when you own a car is.

Johnboy Mac

Even if we wanted to rejoin, why would they have us after carry on's of our banks and down right poor goverance by those elected. This country is a modern 'Wild West' or banana republic. And I'm not the only one to share that view either at home or abroad.

Kev_ps3

c4cat wrote: »

Why would one ever need to ditch ones Irish passport...........????????

Cos his an anti-Irish Unionist p****