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** Police officer shot dead in Armagh
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I'll get back to you ilhanid.
Getting back on topic, the family of Colin Duffy have put out a statement.COLIN DUFFY; A CASE OF TRIAL BY MEDIA!
In the direct aftermath of the fatal shootings of two British army privates and a member of the PSNI, the media and some local politicians engaged in what can only be described as frenzy of finger pointing and ‘felon setting’.
As each politician and reporter attempted to out do the previous comments in regards as to who was responsible, a deliberate picture was painted that resulted in the media and politicians identifying who ought to be arrested. Our family member Colin was one of those and in due course the PSNI obliged.
Colin’s arrest came as no surprise to us as his family due to the comments of the media and politicians, and our worst fears that he would be ‘set up’ as a scapegoat are borne out by two facts that the media and politicians have failed to report. Firstly, Colin was visited four days before his arrest by the PSNI to inform him that a threat had been made on his life, why was he not arrested then? Secondly, after his arrest Colin’s legal representative was informed that his arrest was “intelligence led and not and based on evidence”, in other words they had to arrest him to quell the media frenzy.
We have witnessed recently, in the cases of Sean Hoey and Chris Ward exactly what ‘an intelligence led investigation’ results in, do we have to see more people illegally detained before someone says ‘stop, not in my name’?
While the Duffy family are calling for Colin's release we are also fully aware that there are many others detained under the current British legislation which can hold them for 28 days,we would like to take this opportunity to call for their immediate release also.
Colin has now been detained for 8 days and in an attempt to bring this ‘farce’ to an end is refusing to take food in order to highlight the injustice he is suffering. We have all been down this road before and know where it will end unless true leadership is shown. Justice is a right not a gift from local politicians and the media. Please do whatever you can to ensure that Colin receives justice NOW!
STAND UP FOR JUSTICE, RELEASE COLIN DUFFY NOW!0 -
Ah yes, remember a couple of years ago "RELEASE THE COLUMBIA THREE, NOW"! sounds a bit like > "STAND UP FOR JUSTICE, RELEASE COLIN DUFFY, NOW"!
So even though the Police up North have the police ombudsman breathing down their necks, they still pick up an "innocent" and detain him for 28 days, without any rhyme nor reason whatsoever :rolleyes:
Three innocent people were murdered that weekend, and if the police have a suspect in detention, you can be sure they are holding him/them for a jolly good reason .........
I think we will all be happy, when the murderers are behing bars with life sentences to match.0 -
Ah yes, remember a couple of years ago "RELEASE THE COLUMBIA THREE, NOW"!
And rightly so, I'm personally delighted that the men are back in Ireland where they belong.So even though the Police up North have the police ombudsman breathing down their necks, they still pick up an "innocent" and detain him for 28 days, without any rhyme nor reason whatsoever
MI5 have primacy over issues relating to matters regarding the "security of the state", as the statement said, Duffy's family were informed that the arrest was "intelligence-led" (i.e MI5 said it) as opposed to "evidence based". You can be sure MI5 couldn't give a f*ck about Nuala O'Loan.you can be sure they are holding him/them for a jolly good reason .........
Where's the charge then? The High Court said his detention was unlawful, so they released him and then re-arrested him. The shower of tramps are simply felon-setting, and its an absolute disgrace.0 -
Prominent Northern Ireland republican Colin Duffy has been re-arrested by police in connection with the murder of two soldiers in County Antrim.
He was one of six men being questioned about the murder of the soldiers and a police officer who won a legal challenge to their detention.
Mr Duffy was freed, then re-arrested at Antrim police station, his lawyer said.
The other five men have been released, the firm of solicitors representing them said.
Lord Chief Justice Sir Brian Kerr said a weekend extension to their detention was unlawful.
"No consideration was given to the lawfulness of the original arrest," he said.
Outside the High Court, senior investigating officer Derek Williamson said: "We will now have to go and look at all our options."
Sappers Mark Quinsey and Patrick Azimkar were shot dead while collecting a pizza delivery at the Massereene barracks in Antrim on 7 March. Constable Stephen Carroll was shot dead in Craigavon two days later.
At the weekend a county court judge granted a police detention extension request brought under the 2006 Terrorism Act.
After hearing an emergency judicial review application, a High Court panel headed by Northern Ireland's Lord Chief Justice, Sir Brian Kerr, overturned the county court judge's decision.
"By reason only of the judge's conclusion that she was precluded from considering the lawfulness of the applicants arrest I have decided that her decision must be quashed," he said.
Joe McVeigh, of Kevin R Winters solicitors which represents five of the men, welcomed the ruling.
"We have always taken the view that not to examine the conduct of arresting officers when considering to detain people under the Terrorism Act has always been a breach of human rights," he said.
He added the events could not take away from the grief suffered by Constable Carroll's widow and family.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7963080.stm0 -
Here is the Duffy Family statement just released after the rearrest of Colin.
Family of Colin Duffy call for his immediate release
Our family has always believed from the outset that Colin’s original arrest and prolonged detention was motivated by vindictiveness on the part of the PSNI.
Today’s action by the PSNI in re-arresting Colin, after the High Court had ruled that his continued detention was unlawful, shows the complete disregard which the PSNI has for the justice system and for the European Convention of Human Rights.
It demonstrates the length that the PSNI are prepared to go in order to conduct this vendetta against Colin.
It also demonstrates that the PSNI believe themselves to be above the courts. It is clear that the PSNI is not accountable to either politicians or to the courts.
Colin has previously been the victim of persecution by the state and its forces which included previous periods of imprisonment which were proven to be completely unjustified. It should not be forgotten that this campaign of persecution also involved a murder attempt which resulted in the death of a close family friend, Sam Marshall. It later emerged in court that one of the vehicles involved in that murder belonged to British military intelligence.
We call for his immediate release and are appealing to all those interested in justice to support us in our campaign to return Colin safely home to his wife, children and wider family.0 -
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My understanding was that it was his original arrest that was not lawful, not his ongoing detention. Therefore the PSNI had to release him on a technicality, but there was enough evidence to re-arrest him.
both judges appeared to think his detention was justified.0 -
So it's official then..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7967147.stmMan charged over soldier murders
Prominent Northern Ireland republican Colin Duffy, 41, has been charged with the murders of Sappers Patrick Azimkar and Mark Quinsey.
The soldiers were shot dead outside barracks in Antrim while collecting a pizza delivery on 7 March.
The man has been charged with eight offences - two counts of murder, five counts of attempted murder and one count of possession of a firearm.
He is expected to appear at Larne Magistrates Court on Friday.
...
Remember kids: it's really just a frame-up. True Republicans can do no wrong.
Dirty scummers. Maybe we'll be lucky and there'll be another hilarious-in-it's-tackiness funeral for the community of organised crime to attend soon.0 -
"We now go live to the family of Colin Duffy for more on this callous and vindictive act on the part of the PSNI..."bbc.co.uk wrote:Prominent Northern Ireland republican Colin Duffy, 41, has been charged with the murders of Sappers Patrick Azimkar and Mark Quinsey.0 -
"What, there were no armed Republican actions after 1921 in Ireland? God, evidently I haven't a shaggin' clue so. Although I do have a nagging recollection of an armed campaign in or around 1969...."
Yes, and all these campaigns ended the same way, with the perpetrators getting sense. The latest bunch took their time but they finally had to adjust to the real world. Maybe RIRA etc could save us some time and go directly to that point.
"Is Ireland of paramount importance to the British agenda? Of course it isn't, even during our fabled "War of Independence" Ireland was considered a mere annoyance. I'm saying the place is of interest, but I don't think its of paramount interest no."
So, in that case,its hardly worth the while of this shadowy "establishment" to put so much time and energy into thwarting Irish unification when any objectives they valued could be secured by less conspiratorial ways, is it? I would say pride has a lot to do with it. After all The Falklands are of little value to the British, yet they went to war to keep them. Practicality also;The British knew that to abandon the North would lead to an uncontrolled and unstable situation,numerous casualties, possibly thousands of refugees fleeing both to the South and across the Irish sea and also possibly the balkanization of Northern Ireland. The UN might get involved.Who would want that? Even the Republic-whatever the rhetoric- did'nt want the British to up sticks and leave, until there was some kind of settlement. No cunning plan here, no machiavellian objectives, just common sense.
That is properly the most sense i have yet to read on this site, its great to read a post from somebody who does not have the rose tinted glasses of rhetoric and romanticism on and can look at things with an eye for the real practicalities of life0 -
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The whole thing stinks to me. We'll see.0
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The whole thing stinks to me. We'll see.
Well, the murders stink to me.
And given the high-profile nature of the murders, I don't think ANYONE would risk getting it wrong and thereby allow the scum to brainwash a few more people.
Yes, there's an old argument about needing to be seen to get a conviction for a callous and despicable act, but given the **** that would hit the fan if this weren't a legit arrest, I don't think they'd risk it - they'd basically be doing a recruiting job for the remaining terrorists.
And speaking of this apparent desire to see justice done by those who don't think this arrest is legit - any news on them arresting Robert McCartney's murderers ?
Because, y'see, the BEST way to ensure that police forces get the right guy is if people who know about the crime support law and order and report what they know......0 -
All deaths are upsetting, one of the soldiers killed was my age, and every Staurday I went to Wood Green where he was from. Chances are we went to a few of the same shops or the same cinema. I take no pleasure in the likes of his death at all.
I've just come in on this and being honest not planning on read 20+ pages but i seem to remember FTA having some arguement with a guy about shell to sea and seems you are a fanatic on the wrong side of the fence. All i can say is you support groups who murder and moan when the police look at you for supporting them.
No matter what anyone says all republican groups are linked to each other and to criminal gangs. I'm not going to argue, will leave that up to you but do you ever see your point of view winning over the irish people???
Just once again dont complain unless you can fully condem the murders up north.0 -
After all The Falklands are of little value to the British, yet they went to war to keep them.
While I would agree with most of what you say, this statement is not strictly accurate.
In 1982 the Soviet Union was still in existence and the Cold War very much on. At the time the Falklands were strategically important as they allowed Britain, and by default NATO, a base which controlled the shipping lanes around Cape Horn and also allowed access to Antarctica, a sort of Gibraltar of the South Atlantic.
Occupation of Ireland was strategically important for similar reasons. It closed off the back door to attacks from France or Spain, the Battle of the Boyne was fought for that very reason, not as a means to subjugate Catholics. Even as late as the second World War plans were made to reoccupy Ireland to prevent Germany invading.
I believe Britain has no long term objectives in N.I. and the activities of these so-called freedom fighters will serve only to delay final British withdrawal.0 -
Liam Byrne wrote: »
Because, y'see, the BEST way to ensure that police forces get the right guy is if people who know about the crime support law and order and report what they know......
Well said people complain but their are always people who know and say nothing and blame the police. If i knew anything at all i would go to the PSNI0 -
So Colin Duffy & his merry band of scum bags get banged up for life (maybe)? but what did they acheive? and what were the three senseless murders for?
It just seems so pointless & depressing to think that the SBs mentioned above just thought that they could go out on a jolly murdering spree of a weekend, leaving PC Stephen Carroll's wife a widow, and also leaving the two young lads parents & families grieving for life, but for what?
Interesting to note that while those lot have been detained behind bars, there have been no other murders up North in the name of the IRA. The whole episode just seems so depressing & pointless.
R.I.P. Constable Stephen Carroll
R.I.P. Sapper Patrick Azimkar
R.I.P. Sapper Mark Quinsey0 -
We call for his immediate release and are appealing to all those interested in justice to support us in our campaign to return Colin safely home to his wife, children and wider family.
You've gotten very quiet here FTA about the unjust detention of Colin, ever since they charged him. The PSNI claim his DNA found in the car. Thoughts, opinions etc?
Hypothetically if he is found guilty of the murder will you apologise, admit you are mistaken, or are you just going to go with the already written statement about how he's innocent victim of a British Miscarriage of Justice, that going to be the republican line, before the case even comes to court?
Once again as in the case of the Columbia 3, the IRA apologists bang on about the unjust circumstances of his detention, and not the reason behind it. As in the case of the Columbia 3, while their are doubts about the Columbian justice system, the three men (including a convicted IRA bomber) have never given a full and complete explanation of what they were doing in FARC territory (Yes yes observing the Peace process, but then why travel under false passports?)
Similarly, and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is the evidence against Colin isn't fantastic, DNA evidence taken from a latex glove in the getaway car, if this is the only evidence brought forward at the trial it will make a conviction unlikely. But if he is aquitted, like I said, I'd bet cash, that he'll never offer a reasonable explanation as to how his DNA got in the car in the first place.
One of the regretable reason we have things like the special criminal court, and legislation like the Terrorism Act is that groups like the IRA actively went out of their way to pervert the cause of justice, and engaged in witness intimidation, and attempted to affect the outcome of trials.
Finally organisations whose paramilitary arm engaged in secret show trials, of "traitors" and then executes them and dumps their bodies in unmarked graves. As well torturing and maiming children who they view as trouble makers, really has no business criticising the standards of the courts they are tried in. Or complaining about human rights violations.
Oh and;Joe McVeigh, of Kevin R Winters solicitors which represents five of the men, welcomed the ruling.
"We have always taken the view that not to examine the conduct of arresting officers when considering to detain people under the Terrorism Act has always been a breach of human rights," he said.
He added the events could not take away from the grief suffered by Constable Carroll's widow and family.
The guy defending the accused murderer, seems to feel that the police shouldn't do everything in their power to catch the killer, least it upsets Carroll's widow????
Jesus.0 -
You've gotten very quiet here FTA about the unjust detention of Colin, ever since they charged him. The PSNI claim his DNA found in the car. Thoughts, opinions etc?
Hypothetically if he is found guilty of the murder will you apologise, admit you are mistaken, or are you just going to go with the already written statement about how he's innocent victim of a British Miscarriage of Justice, that going to be the republican line, before the case even comes to court?
Once again as in the case of the Columbia 3, the IRA apologists bang on about the unjust circumstances of his detention, and not the reason behind it. As in the case of the Columbia 3, while their are doubts about the Columbian justice system, the three men (including a convicted IRA bomber) have never given a full and complete explanation of what they were doing in FARC territory (Yes yes observing the Peace process, but then why travel under false passports?)
Similarly, and I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is the evidence against Colin isn't fantastic, DNA evidence taken from a latex glove in the getaway car, if this is the only evidence brought forward at the trial it will make a conviction unlikely. But if he is aquitted, like I said, I'd bet cash, that he'll never offer a reasonable explanation as to how his DNA got in the car in the first place.
One of the regretable reason we have things like the special criminal court, and legislation like the Terrorism Act is that groups like the IRA actively went out of their way to pervert the cause of justice, and engaged in witness intimidation, and attempted to affect the outcome of trials.
Finally organisations whose paramilitary arm engaged in secret show trials, of "traitors" and then executes them and dumps their bodies in unmarked graves. As well torturing and maiming children who they view as trouble makers, really has no business criticising the standards of the courts they are tried in. Or complaining about human rights violations.
Oh and;
The guy defending the accused murderer, seems to feel that the police shouldn't do everything in their power to catch the killer, least it upsets Carroll's widow????
Jesus.
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+1 on everything Diogenes said.......
I also just read the post with the family's statement again, and despite "calling for his immediate release", the AMAZING thing is that AT NO STAGE does it say "because he's innocent" !!!!
As for FTA's silence......
Yes, there's the case that this is only the first step, and that he's not guilty until judged so by the court.....of course, that can work 2 ways - FTA could be on here complaining about "miscarraiges of justice" and secret deals if he's found guilty, but that, too, goes both ways, as we found out after the murder of Gerry McCabe - guilty people can walk or get reduced charges, too.
So unfortunately, the courts are the best we have, and we'll hope that they see justice and the will of the [99.9% vast majority of the] people done.0 -
Dark_lord_ire wrote: »
Merciful hour, I log on there this afternoon and am confronted with 10 odd posts containing all sorts of whinging, just what you need to brighten up the day!
I've just come in on this and being honest not planning on read 20+ pages but i seem to remember FTA having some arguement with a guy about shell to sea and seems you are a fanatic on the wrong side of the fence.
Hold on a second, so because I oppose giving away large amounts of national resources for free to Shell, I am a fanatic "on the wrong side of the fence"? Whatever lad.All i can say is you support groups who murder and moan when the police look at you for supporting them.
What group do I support that's engaged in killing anyone? You made the statement so hopefully you can back it up.No matter what anyone says all republican groups are linked to each other and to criminal gangs.
Groups like who?0 -
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As for FTA's silence......
"FTA's silence" comes from the fact that I was boxing on Thursday, and had college and work all day yesterday. God forgive me for not manning the PC night and day to monitor this thread.
Diogenes,
The reason I think this stinks to the high heavens is primarily based on the individual himself, Colin Duffy. Up until about last month he was a member of Éirigi, a political party resolutely against the use of armed struggle, one which seeks to develop a political platform through community activism and campaigns. It has absolutely no affiliation to any armed group, and in fact many in these groups or supportive of them have berated Éirigi for not standing behind an armed campaign.
For me it doesn't make sense that Colin, a former leading member who quietly stood down, would in the space of three weeks, be affiliated to the Real IRA and would be shooting Brits. Things don't work like that in Republican circles to be honest. That's why I think the whole thing is fishy, because it doesn't really make sense in my eyes.The PSNI claim his DNA found in the car. Thoughts, opinions etc?
The LMP claimed they found traces of ammonium nitrate on the hands of Gerry Conlon. The Colombian military claimed they found traces of explosives and cocaine on the hands of the Colombia Three. Do I believe the police are above falsifying or doctoring evidence? No I don't, and there are scores of examples in our own recent past where this has been the case. One only has to look at the case of Sean Hoey in South Armagh to see how the PSNI is capable of getting up to dirty tricks in order to secure a conviction.As in the case of the Columbia 3, while their are doubts about the Columbian justice system
You wouldn't call them "doubts" in fairness, there isn't much "doubt" over the fact that Colombia is a rotten, corrupt state where human-rights abuses, massacres of Indians, collusion with the AUC and drugs are part and parcel of the activities of certain state bodies such as the police and military.Yes yes observing the Peace process, but then why travel under false passports?)
Because of their previous records. Personally I haven't a clue what was going on over in Colombia, and neither do you. All I know is that I'm glad three Irish citizens weren't sentenced by a laughably corrupt judiciary and left to rot in a jail where hundreds of right-wing paramilitaries were trying to kill them.One of the regretable reason we have things like the special criminal court, and legislation like the Terrorism Act is that groups like the IRA actively went out of their way to pervert the cause of justice, and engaged in witness intimidation, and attempted to affect the outcome of trials.
That and it was a handy way of putting a legal facade on a basic strategy of locking people away on the basis of little or no evidence. Unlike internment it didn't carry the same stigma and could be portrayed as normal judicial proceedings. Of course what you don't hear about the Diplock courts etc is the fact people were held for seven days, tortured and beaten, often convicted on the basis of imaginary "oral" confessions and then sent to jail on the sole word of a member of a police force which was colluding with Loyalist paramilitaries.Finally organisations whose paramilitary arm engaged in secret show trials, of "traitors" and then executes them and dumps their bodies in unmarked graves. As well torturing and maiming children who they view as trouble makers, really has no business criticising the standards of the courts they are tried in. Or complaining about human rights violations.
Well I'm not a member of Sinn Féin or the IRA, nor do I support those two organisations in any fashion.The guy defending the accused murderer, seems to feel that the police shouldn't do everything in their power to catch the killer, least it upsets Carroll's widow????
Jesus.
I think that's you engaging in the twisting of words more than anything else.0 -
The reason I think this stinks to the high heavens is primarily based on the individual himself, Colin Duffy. Up until about last month he was a member of Éirigi, a political party resolutely against the use of armed struggle, one which seeks to develop a political platform through community activism and campaigns. It has absolutely no affiliation to any armed group, and in fact many in these groups or supportive of them have berated Éirigi for not standing behind an armed campaign.
For me it doesn't make sense that Colin, a former leading member who quietly stood down, would in the space of three weeks, be affiliated to the Real IRA and would be shooting Brits. Things don't work like that in Republican circles to be honest. That's why I think the whole thing is fishy, because it doesn't really make sense in my eyes.
Ah so to be clear republican circles work in logic, and sense.
So to be clear you believe that 2 soldiers and 1 policeman were murdered by members of a dissident republican group, for no good reason, in an act that has sparked outrage across the globe, but at the same time you think that "hey republicans don't occasionally do things that defy logic, and basic human decency."The LMP claimed they found traces of ammonium nitrate on the hands of Gerry Conlon.
That was 30 years ago, alot has changed. Quit living in the bloody past.You wouldn't call them "doubts" in fairness, there isn't much "doubt" over the fact that Colombia is a rotten, corrupt state where human-rights abuses, massacres of Indians, collusion with the AUC and drugs are part and parcel of the activities of certain state bodies such as the police and military.
Because of their previous records. Personally I haven't a clue what was going on over in Colombia, and neither do you. All I know is that I'm glad three Irish citizens weren't sentenced by a laughably corrupt judiciary and left to rot in a jail where hundreds of right-wing paramilitaries were trying to kill them.
Hang on a sec if Columbia is ruled by right wing paramilitaries why were hundred of them in jail waiting to kill them. And why would anyone want to kill three innocent bird watching peace process observing men.
The Columbia 3 is a perfect example of republican bait and switch, instead of answering straightforward questions about their visit republicans yell "Misscarriage of justice" "Wrongful imprisonment" "Human rights abuse!"
Similarly in this situation you've been yelling about everything else but the fact that Duffy has been charged.
Lets remember you started by pushing press releases claiming this was an abuse of his human rights, and now you're onto suggesting the brits aren't above faking evidence.
Here's the bit you've ignored in your red faced indignation. If Duffy is found guilty will you accept that the police were right to detain him? And secondly, what evidence would you accept as conclusive proof that he was guilty of the crime.That and it was a handy way of putting a legal facade on a basic strategy of locking people away on the basis of little or no evidence. Unlike internment it didn't carry the same stigma and could be portrayed as normal judicial proceedings. Of course what you don't hear about the Diplock courts etc is the fact people were held for seven days, tortured and beaten, often convicted on the basis of imaginary "oral" confessions and then sent to jail on the sole word of a member of a police force which was colluding with Loyalist paramilitaries.
Whataboutarey. Remind me, did the IRA ever produce the radio Jean Mc Conville was supposedly using to contact the brits.
Getting outraged by the miscarriages of justice on one side, without accepting that this was an extraordinary situation brought on by extreme behaviour on both sides.Well I'm not a member of Sinn Féin or the IRA, nor do I support those two organisations in any fashion.
You've paid lip service sympathy to the dead soldiers and police officer, and banged on about the human rights of Duffy till the cows come home.
You walk the walk, and talk the talk, and then try and use a get out of jail card like the above.I think that's you engaging in the twisting of words more than anything else.
Nope it's a pretty obvious to me and I think most people reading it.
Or do you think the police shouldn't be doing everything within their power to hunt down all promising suspects of the heinous crime?0 -
So presumably they have condemned these murders?Up until about last month he was a member of Éirigi, a political party resolutely against the use of armed struggle...
In which case you would have no problem condemning these murders?Well I'm not a member of Sinn Féin or the IRA, nor do I support those two organisations in any fashion.0 -
Sinn Fein have condemned the killings, eirigi have not but as far as I'm aware don't actively support any group involved in violence.0
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To tell you the truth diogenes having a discussion with you can be tedious owing to the fact you're attributing to me points I never even made. I believe the term is "straw man", and you're creating a hurling team's worth in your post.So to be clear you believe that 2 soldiers and 1 policeman were murdered by members of a dissident republican group, for no good reason, in an act that has sparked outrage across the globe, but at the same time you think that "hey republicans don't occasionally do things that defy logic, and basic human decency."
No, I said it doesn't make sense for someone to be articulating peaceful campaigning and repudiating armed struggle and then to be off banging people three weeks down the line. It's a bit of a volte face, and things don't work like that. You wouldn't for instance approach an armed group and within three weeks be on their most important operation in years. As I said, it doesn't work like that at all.
Now you can come out with "sure Republicans are all cracked anyway, sure you wouldn't know what they'd do", but it doesn't change the reality that this situation doesn't make sense.That was 30 years ago, alot has changed. Quit living in the bloody past.
Oh right, so police these days would never engage in underhandedness? During the investigation into the Omagh bomb, it was insinuated that Sean Hoey was forensically tied to the operation and of course he was summarily convicted in the eyes of the media. The same fella was later acquitted. You can believe to your heart's content that the police these days are a highly-professional outfit who would never break the law or stitch someone up. They aren't as bad as they once were for divilment, but they aren't bloody angels either.Hang on a sec if Columbia is ruled by right wing paramilitaries why were hundred of them in jail waiting to kill them.
See this is the type of sh*te talk I was alluding to above. Where did I say Colombia was "ruled by right-wing paramilitaries"? Go on, quote me the exact sentence where I said that in my post. What I actually said was that it was part and parcel of the Colombian military and police to collude with the AUC, I never said the AUC were running the country.
There were Loyalists in jail in this country as well, it didn't stop the Brits colluding with them either.Whataboutarey. Remind me, did the IRA ever produce the radio Jean Mc Conville was supposedly using to contact the brits.
Considering they only admitted killing her a few years back I doubt it.Getting outraged by the miscarriages of justice on one side, without accepting that this was an extraordinary situation brought on by extreme behaviour on both sides.
I'm willing to accept that certain conditions were created as a result of the conflict here, I'm under no illusions about what the consequences of a war entail. I'm simply pointing out the fallaciousness of stating that the Diplock courts were akin to a "fair trial".You've paid lip service sympathy to the dead soldiers and police officer, and banged on about the human rights of Duffy till the cows come home.
You walk the walk, and talk the talk, and then try and use a get out of jail card like the above.
It isn 't a get out of jail free at all, it's a statement of fact. I'm a Republican, but I'm not a Provo. And at the same time SF have f*ck all to do with it, they're probably in full agreement with the position you and others have taken on this matter.
djpbarry,In which case you would have no problem condemning these murders?
What difference would it make if I condemned anything or not?0 -
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To tell you the truth diogenes having a discussion with you can be tedious owing to the fact you're attributing to me points I never even made. I believe the term is "straw man", and you're creating a hurling team's worth in your post.
You're consistently defending republican ideology on this thread, but dancing away from it when the reality becomes too inconvenient.No, I said it doesn't make sense for someone to be articulating peaceful campaigning and repudiating armed struggle and then to be off banging people three weeks down the line.
You keep using the term three weeks as if Duffy had a road to Damascus moment three weeks ago, and in an epiphany switched around. I don't pretend to know Duffy's motivation, you're the only one speculating. You've said Duffy quietly resigned three weeks ago, perhaps and again (like you) I'm only speculating perhaps he'd re embraced violent republican ideology months ago, and only resigned as an afterthought weeks ago.
I don't know. You're the one claiming to have insight into his mindset.It's a bit of a volte face, and things don't work like that. You wouldn't for instance approach an armed group and within three weeks be on their most important operation in years. As I said, it doesn't work like that at all.
Yeah, but frankly the relationship between republican groups and their paramilitary "friends" is a little more fluid than you let on. It's not as if he was a Jedi Knight who wandered onto the Dark Side overnight. You keep using this abstract three weeks figure, as if it's incomprehensible that he was in social or political contact with armed republican groups before these arbitory three week timetable of yours.Now you can come out with "sure Republicans are all cracked anyway, sure you wouldn't know what they'd do", but it doesn't change the reality that this situation doesn't make sense.
And randomly calling out a cop to gun him down using a 17 year old boy does? Gunning down a pizza delivery boy and two soldiers on their way to Afghanistan makes sense?
Theres little about this that makes sense to anyone with a moral compass.Oh right, so police these days would never engage in underhandedness? During the investigation into the Omagh bomb, it was insinuated that Sean Hoey was forensically tied to the operation and of course he was summarily convicted in the eyes of the media. The same fella was later acquitted.
Just bolding the important word there. The Police get it wrong, there is the Ombudsman and the Courts to catch their mistakes.
I'm not saying Duffy is guilty. I'm saying that when Duffy was arrested you banged on that this was victimisation, and an abuse of human rights. When Duffy was charged you started shouting about the Guilford 4, and Birmingham 6.
You're not interested in justice, or the evidence, you're into playing the victim of persecution card. How about this;
In a shocking criminal act over a decade after the Island of Ireland united to agree to peaceful peace process in which the Republic overwhelming voted to remove our historic claim to Northern Ireland, and work towards a peaceful settlement. Then a few days ago, a couple of thugs murdered a police officer called out to investigate a broken window. The murder was callous, vile, and brought nothing but pain to anyone. The PSNI acting quickly and using all the powers at their disposal arrested several men. The men's solicitors using human rights law over turned the arrests, however the police quickly rearrested one man, and presented evidence that connected him to the murder. The crown prosecution services have charged him with murderYou can believe to your heart's content that the police these days are a highly-professional outfit who would never break the law or stitch someone up. They aren't as bad as they once were for divilment, but they aren't bloody angels either.
And I never said they were, however your problem is you seem to think republican activists are mother fecking Thresea.See this is the type of sh*te talk I was alluding to above. Where did I say Colombia was "ruled by right-wing paramilitaries"? Go on, quote me the exact sentence where I said that in my post.
You claimed that Columbia isthe fact that Colombia is a rotten, corrupt state where human-rights abuses, massacres of Indians, collusion with the AUC
The AUC is a right wing paramilitary organisation.
The inference is that the government of Columbia is neck deep in collusion with right wing paramilitaries.
The inference is there. You can quibble about semantics, it takes away from the thrust of the point.
Why were the three of them sauntering around in with fake passports? Bird watching? Peace process observing? Teaching them bomb making techniques? Non or all of the above? We don't know, and the three aren't in any rush to give any full account of their behaviour.What I actually said was that it was part and parcel of the Colombian military and police to collude with the AUC, I never said the AUC were running the country.
What you call a strawman, I call semantics. Instead of answering the question that the 3 never gave a full account to justify their presence in the country, you're just desperately wandering off on a tangent.There were Loyalists in jail in this country as well, it didn't stop the Brits colluding with them either.
The Brits? I was unaware there was a uniformed force called "The brits" elements within the security forces did work with Unionists.
Gosh I said it. At the same time you are suggesting it's incomprehensible that Duffy would have contact and work with the C-IRA or R-IRA.
Now the British government would always deny that they worked with loyalists paramilitaries, and the evidence would show them up as liars, elements of the government did colude with loyalists.
You saying the above while you are also saying its simply impossible for Duffy to work with Éirigi while having sympathy or links with violent republicanism.
Does the cognitive dissoance in holding these two contrary positions give you nose bleeds?Considering they only admitted killing her a few years back I doubt it.
No but they spent decades spreading lies about her.I'm willing to accept that certain conditions were created as a result of the conflict here, I'm under no illusions about what the consequences of a war entail. I'm simply pointing out the fallaciousness of stating that the Diplock courts were akin to a "fair trial".
And an IRA "trial" was...
Please first adjective that pops into your head.It isn 't a get out of jail free at all, it's a statement of fact. I'm a Republican, but I'm not a Provo. And at the same time SF have f*ck all to do with it, they're probably in full agreement with the position you and others have taken on this matter.
Okay you're a republican, do you reject the concept of violence as an acceptable tool to achieve a united ireland.
Yes or no?
In fact a better question, do you reject violence as a an acceptable form of action accept in self defence or in the defence of a third party who's life is in danger of significant harm, unless you physically intervene?What difference would it make if I condemned anything or not?
Um, alot?
Mc Guinness' stance after this was a defining moment for mainstream republicanism. Any republican making a stand against this horrendous act should be welcome.0 -
Sinn Fein have condemned the killings, eirigi have not but as far as I'm aware don't actively support any group involved in violence.
A wee search on the web and I found their press release on the matter, bolding mineIn response to repeated requests for éirígí to clarify its position with regard to recent events, spokesperson Breandán Mac Cionnaith today commented on the attacks upon the British Army and PSNI.
“I would like to take this opportunity to restate éirígí’s view of how British rule in Ireland should be challenged
(no mention of how this rule should be challenged natch)
“éirígí is an open, independent, democratic political party which is not aligned to, or supportive of, any armed organisation.
(okay and the next bold bit)“It is éirígí's position that the British occupation is the underlying cause of the ongoing conflict in Ireland. Our history demonstrates that until that underlying cause is addressed that conflict will continue indefinitely.
“éirígí unequivocally supports the right of Irish people to oppose British rule in Ireland.
(No mention of how though. Strongly worded letters? Semtex?)“éirígí believes that British interference in Ireland can best be challenged at this time through the building of an all-Ireland popular movement in support of national reunification and independence.
“When éirígí was founded we asserted our belief that a Democratic Socialist Republic can only be established and sustained through the collective action of a progressive social movement incorporating local communities, organised labour, cultural organisations, campaigns groups, and political parties. We believe that the creation of such a popular movement represents the best potential to create the conditions which will make British rule and capitalist exploitation in Ireland untenable.
“Over the course of the last two and a half years éirígí has organised countless public events aimed at building public opposition to British rule and imperialism in Ireland. éirígí’s protest in opposition to the controversial RIR parade in Belfast in November past is an example of just one such event.
“While supporting the right of any people to defend themselves from imperial aggression éirígí does not believe that the conditions exist at this time for a successful armed struggle against the British occupation.
(Thats a "we don't think it works, its not as if we are saying we object to it")“As can be seen from the recent attacks on Britain’s armed forces it is clear that not all republicans agree on how the British occupation should be resisted at this time. Those who carried out those attacks are best placed to explain their own rationale.
(Cop and Out, no attempt to distance themselves from it)“As with all of the countless and avoidable deaths that have occurred throughout the centuries of British interference in Ireland, the ultimate political responsibility for these most recent deaths lies with the British government and wider British establishment.”
No see the brits put a AK-47 in that kid's hand. And murdered those kids.
here on their website
So while not exactly a "hurray up the RA!" response, there isn't a single word like "sorry" "regret" or "wrong" in mention to these specific murders.
Y'know what, I respect the terrorists more than these group of contemptible a holes, At least the continuity IRA are honest about their intentions goals and ambitions.
Eirigi are a bunch of cowards, not saying they condemn the murders specifically but not defending them.
Seriously FTA you've found your political home, a group who are appalled by terrorism, but blame the brits for everything including republican violence, and can't bring themselves to come out and outright condemn republican terrorism.
What a bunch of contemptable cowards hiding behind semantics.0 -
Well, since Duffy was first apprehended, you have jumped on the “Free Colin Duffy” bandwagon, implying that his detention was unlawful and that his arrest was purely politically motivated. You have insisted that there is simply no way he could be involved – it doesn’t make any sense, apparently.What difference would it make if I condemned anything or not?
Now, I get the impression in all this that you think quite highly of Duffy, that perhaps you share a common political ideology? Given his past association with Éirigí, a group that has stopped well short of condemning the murders (they’ve more or less condoned them, in my opinion), and of course the IRA, along with your own reluctance to condemn the murders, it suggests to me that Duffy may well be of the opinion that these murders represent legitimate “resistance” to an “occupation”. So is it really all that far-fetched that he may have been involved?0 -
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"What a bunch of contemptable cowards hiding behind semantics."
+10
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