** Police officer shot dead in Armagh

LordSutch

FTA69 wrote: »

I'm firm in my belief that Colin Duffy is being felon-set due to his being a prominant Republican against whom the police have a vendetta, and I'm not the only one by the way.

Might the Police interest in Duffy be something to do with the recent Murders, (as opposed to a Vendetta)?

FTA69 wrote: »

Others believe that the PSNI is a fully accountable and professional force (which it isn't) and have already convinced themselves that Colin Duffy is responsible, because they cops wouldn't arrest him if he wasn't.

Who says that the Police Service of Northern Ireland isnt a fully accountable & professional force?

I dont know if you realise it or not FTA69, but you constantly give the 'impression' in your posts that your sympathies lie with the perpetrators of the Murders, rather than with the Victims & their grieving families.

FTA69

Might the Police interest in Duffy be something to do with the recent Murders, (as opposed to a Vendetta)?

As I said, I find it highly unlikely that Duffy would be affiliated to the Real IRA for reasons I already outlined.

Whether you care to admit it or not the cops do have a vendetta against Duffy, they've arrested him before on trumped up charges, raided his house, stopped him in his car, searched him umpteen times, kicked the sh*t out of him etc etc, his own solicitor was murdered by Loyalist paramilitaries, some of whom were paid informers. Some papers (most likely on the back of police "sources") also stated he was having an affair with Rosemary Nelson and all other sorts of slanderous b*llocks.

All of this stems back to the fact that Duffy was acquitted of killing two RUC officers in 1997.

Who says that the Police Service of Northern Ireland isnt a fully accountable & professional force?

Their security agenda is dictated by MI5, an organisation that is not accountable and has engaged in murder and collusion with death squads in order to kill people in this country. Similarly the same MI5 is also engaged in espionage the length and breadth of this island. The cops, British Army and British Intelligence are all interwoven in this country and all serve the same agenda, the security of British jurisdiction in Ireland.

Similarly we have seen the PSNI engage in the harrassment of Republicans and nationalists, I can think of umpteen examples where they have engaged in assault (breaking Gary Donnelly's arm in Derry) as well as blatantly lying in court in order to falsely charge two Éirigi members with assaulting an officer and resisting arrest. (After they had beaten one peaceful protestor unconscious.)

Last time I was pulled over by them they certainly weren't too "professional".

I dont know if you realise it or not FTA69, but you constantly give the 'impression' in your posts that your sympathies lie with the perpetrators of the Murders, rather than with the Victims & their grieving families.

I sympathise with the families of those killed, but I'm not sympathetic toward any British soldier. That's what they signed up to when they decided to take up a job that involves them invading and occupying other peoples' countries.

LordSutch

FTA69 wrote: »

I sympathise with the families of those killed, but I'm not sympathetic toward any British soldier. That's what they signed up to when they decided to take up a job that involves them invading and occupying other peoples' countries.

This sounds like real IRA/Sinn Fein speak, circa (Pre 1998) . . . . . .

So you're carrying the torch for another generation who would have the 'one million Brits' & their army ejected & erased from the island of Ireland > how sad, I thought we had all made an amicable agreement in 1998, that members of the security forces would not be murdered and that Republican demands/goals would be acheived by peaceful means only.

Obviously the 'Good Fiday Agreement' is not recognised by all

junder

Still it could be worse for Duffy he could be being charged with the 15 other murders he was involved in (allegedly :cool:), luckly for him he was on the MI5 payroll at the time (Allegedly :cool:)

ilkhanid

"I can think of umpteen examples where they have engaged in assault (breaking Gary Donnelly's arm in Derry) as well as blatantly lying in court in order to falsely charge two Éirigi members with assaulting an officer and resisting arrest. (After they had beaten one peaceful protestor unconscious.)"

What these are is "claims" not facts. There is no shortage of claims in the North, like everywhere else. I expect that if these outrageous things happened that we will be shortly hearing of the complaints by Gary Donnelly and the "peaceful protestor" to the Police Ombudsman.

FTA69

junder wrote: »

Still it could be worse for Duffy he could be being charged with the 15 other murders he was involved in (allegedly :cool:), luckly for him he was on the MI5 payroll at the time (Allegedly :cool:)

A PUP man laughing about touts, sure half of your crowd were in the direct employment of the Brits, and the other half are now selling hard drugs to your own people. Very funny alright.

Camelot,

So you're carrying the torch for another generation who would have the 'one million Brits' & their army ejected & erased from the island of Ireland

Where did I ever say I wanted to kick Unionists out of Ireland. Go on away and don't be annoying me.

djpbarry

FTA69 wrote: »

Whether you care to admit it or not the cops do have a vendetta against Duffy…

According to? You? He’s a former paramilitary with connections to a “political” party that has essentially condoned these murders – I’m not at all surprised that the police keep an eye on him.

FTA69 wrote: »

Their security agenda is dictated by MI5…

According to?

FTA69 wrote: »

Similarly we have seen the PSNI engage in the harrassment of Republicans and nationalists…

I note that the word “innocent” is missing from that statement.

FTA69 wrote: »

Last time I was pulled over by them they certainly weren't too "professional".

More hear’say.

FTA69 wrote: »

I sympathise with the families of those killed, but I'm not sympathetic toward any British soldier. That's what they signed up to when they decided to take up a job that involves them invading and occupying other peoples' countries.

At what point did either Patrick Azimkar or Mark Quinsey invade Northern Ireland? Last time I checked, they were on UK soil, not “other people’s countries”.

Liam Byrne

FTA69 wrote: »

Whether you care to admit it or not the cops do have a vendetta against Duffy

And whether you care to admit it or not, the existence or non-existence of a vendetta has no bearing on whether or not the guy is guilty.

We don't know and are precisely the same as with any other trial in which we don't know those involved : "let's see".

You might like to believe him, and so you've a slightly different assumption - as you're entitled to - but you still can't say for a fact that he's innocent, just as no-one (apart from maybe him) can know if he's guilty.

He's been arrested and will get a trial - just like anyone else.

So again, I'll ask you a straightforward, honest, and perfectly understandable question :

Why doesn't your sig say "Colin Duffy is innocent", rather than the generic "free him", which would imply that you'd be happy if he were guilty AND were still freed ?

Well ?

junder

FTA69 wrote: »

A PUP man laughing about touts, sure half of your crowd were in the direct employment of the Brits, and the other half are now selling hard drugs to your own people. Very funny alright.

Camelot,



Where did I ever say I wanted to kick Unionists out of Ireland. Go on away and don't be annoying me.

PUP is well respected political party as we can see by the turn out at Davids funeral, moreover i think you will find it is the UDA along with the INLA that are the main drug dealers in Northern Ireland. Still its interesting you don't deny his involvement in those 15 murders or his role as a tout. Oh incase your wondering were my information is coming from i know quite a few people in Lurgan myself including the wife of one of his (alleged :cool: )victems

FTA69

PUP is well respected political party as we can see by the turn out at Davids funeral

They certainly aren't the worst of the Loyalists, and unlike Gary McMichael and his band of merry men some of them actually had a brain in their heads. However it is also interesting to see that the PUP can barely scrape a vote in Loyalist areas due to their inherent connection with the UVF who are nothing but a shower of gangsters.

moreover i think you will find it is the UDA along with the INLA that are the main drug dealers in Northern Ireland.

Most dealers in Nationalist areas are just ordinary criminals. Similarly to insinuate the UVF aren't up to their necks in drugs and other forms of criminality is fallacious to say the least.

Still its interesting you don't deny his involvement in those 15 murders or his role as a tout.

The Brits ran and continue to run touts in Republican groups, I don't believe for a second Colin Duffy is one of those. If he is that would mean that someone in the pay of your government killed 15 of your fellow citizens, your soldiers and your cops with their express consent. It would mean the British government to which you swear allegiance willingly sacrificed scores of your comrades in the UDR for their own agenda. The prospect of Republican agents raises more troubling questions for someone of your persuasion than it does mine.

FTA69

According to?

Common knowledge really, you can believe the cops are incapable of forming a grudge against someone if you want. It doesn't change the fact of the matter to be honest.

According to?

Common sense. They were given complete responsibility over issues relating to "state security" where previously that was the responsibility of the Chief Constable. Similarly they're after building a brand spanking new barracks in Hollywood, Co Down.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/4713790.stm

More hear’say.

:rolleyes: It's an anecdote like, so it's a bit hard to provide an interent link to that effect.

Last time I checked, they were on UK soil, not “other people’s countries”.

They could just have easily been shot in Iraq or Afghanistan. By your logic the Black and Tans weren't in occupation of this country either, simply enforcing the rule of law on British soil.

LordSutch

FTA69 wrote: »

They could just have easily been shot in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Iraq & Afghanistan are 'war zones' > Northern Ireland is not . . . .

djpbarry

FTA69 wrote: »

Common knowledge really…

You’ll have to do better than that. Actually, no need, because as Liam Byrne says, it’s irrelevant really.

FTA69 wrote: »

Common sense. They were given complete responsibility over issues relating to "state security" where previously that was the responsibility of the Chief Constable.

Ah, so what you meant was MI5 are operational in Northern Ireland and the PSNI are (presumably) subservient to them? I would imagine the same is true of all police forces in the UK – MI5 would be a bit toothless otherwise.

FTA69 wrote: »

It's an anecdote like, so it's a bit hard to provide an interent link to that effect.

My point exactly – it’s meaningless.

FTA69 wrote: »

They could just have easily been shot in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Except they weren’t in Iraq or Afghanistan, they were in their home country (whether you like to admit it or not).

FTA69 wrote: »

By your logic the Black and Tans weren't in occupation of this country either, simply enforcing the rule of law on British soil.

:rolleyes: Azimkar and Quinsey were out terrorising the locals every other day, were they?

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

They could just have easily been shot in Iraq or Afghanistan. By your logic the Black and Tans weren't in occupation of this country either, simply enforcing the rule of law on British soil.

Typical shoite.
they were shot collecting a pizza.
The black and tans are long since dead.
This is the here and now.

If you want to discuss 1919 and why we don't all go back to what was an outrage back then-I suggest you stop women under 30 voting ,put all male under 18's in short pants,close down cinema's showing over 18 rated films,ban condoms,Divorce and send un married moms to institutions to be brutalised by nuns...oh and release jailed paedophile "priests"
All pretty much the norm in 1919.

Theres a few lines to add to you sig...

Liam Byrne

Maybe 3rd time lucky if I ask the obvious again:

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So again, I'll ask you a straightforward, honest, and perfectly understandable question :

Why doesn't your sig say "Colin Duffy is innocent", rather than the generic "free him", which would imply that you'd be happy if he were guilty AND were still freed ?

junder

FTA69 wrote: »

They certainly aren't the worst of the Loyalists, and unlike Gary McMichael and his band of merry men some of them actually had a brain in their heads. However it is also interesting to see that the PUP can barely scrape a vote in Loyalist areas due to their inherent connection with the UVF who are nothing but a shower of gangsters.



Most dealers in Nationalist areas are just ordinary criminals. Similarly to insinuate the UVF aren't up to their necks in drugs and other forms of criminality is fallacious to say the least.



The Brits ran and continue to run touts in Republican groups, I don't believe for a second Colin Duffy is one of those. If he is that would mean that someone in the pay of your government killed 15 of your fellow citizens, your soldiers and your cops with their express consent. It would mean the British government to which you swear allegiance willingly sacrificed scores of your comrades in the UDR for their own agenda. The prospect of Republican agents raises more troubling questions for someone of your persuasion than it does mine.

Actully the PUPS low turn out in elections was due to its support of the good friday agreement, case you missed it both the PUP and UUP suffered electorally because of thier support for the good friday agreement. Of course its not surprize to hear the usual excuse of the drug dealers in nationalist areas only being criminals, what would you expect from somebody who does not actully live in those areas, because if you did you would know thats its a running joke about how much drugs the INLA brought into Northern Ireland in nationalist communitys (of course thye PIRA had no problem taking money of the crminal dealers for 'protection'), heres a little nugget of information for you the INLA and UDA were actully involved in drug deals together and have on numerous occasions brought drugs of each other to supply their own areas.
Of course its fair to say that all paramiltrays were involved in criminal activties such as extortion, racktering and oh yer robbing backs, post office vans and killing gardi.
so to insinuate that republican paramiltrays "aren't up to their necks in drugs and other forms of criminality is fallacious to say the least".

As for touts your right all paramiltarys were full of touts be they loyalist or republican seems the last 30 years have just been one set of touts fighting another set of touts and yes i am very troubled by the protection of touts, infact i am very troubled by the fact that there is still a very high level provie/sinn fein tout that if revealed couls topple the peace agreement and send the provies back to war.
Sadley for the deluded such as yourself there is nothing a head but disappointment as heros you believed in are reveled as nothing more then crminals and touts who only ever looked out for themselves

FTA69

djpbarry wrote: »

You’ll have to do better than that. Actually, no need, because as Liam Byrne says, it’s irrelevant really.

I doubt its "irrelevant" to Colin Duffy.

Ah, so what you meant was MI5 are operational in Northern Ireland and the PSNI are (presumably) subservient to them? I would imagine the same is true of all police forces in the UK – MI5 would be a bit toothless otherwise.

Right, so you accept my point that the PSNI is subservient to an unaccountable intelligence agency that has facilitated the deaths of countless people in Ireland?

My point exactly – it’s meaningless.

It's certainly not meaningless to me.

Except they weren’t in Iraq or Afghanistan, they were in their home country (whether you like to admit it or not).

They weren't in their own country, they're English.

:rolleyes: Azimkar and Quinsey were out terrorising the locals every other day, were they?

No, but they were part of the military garrison in Ireland.

Camelot,

Iraq & Afghanistan are 'war zones' > Northern Ireland is not . . . .

How is Afghanistan a "war" in your eyes out of curioisity? Surely it is simply a counter-terrorist campaign against an unelected band of insurgents?

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote: »

They weren't in their own country, they're English.

As citizens of the UK, they most certainly were in their own country.

No, but they were part of the military garrison in Ireland.

There is no British military garrison in Ireland.

The sooner you and others emerge from your fantasy world and come to terms with these simple facts - for facts they are - the better for everyone concerned.

LordSutch

I cant be ar*** to go picking through your last warped & twisted post FTA (#378), so let me say this one more time on behalf of every other poster here (apart from one or two republican hardliners) like yourself.

Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom (Good friday Agreement-1998) & the two soldiers + the PC were murdered on UK soil, they were murdered in cold blood in the UK (the country as defined) by the (Good friday Agreement-1998).

The War is over FTA69 > "Its OVER" > No more murders, in the name of anything!

Get it

FTA69

oscarBravo wrote: »

As citizens of the UK, they most certainly were in their own country. There is no British military garrison in Ireland.

The sooner you and others emerge from your fantasy world and come to terms with these simple facts - for facts they are - the better for everyone concerned.

Nonsense, the UK is a state, Ireland is a country, England and Wales are countries. By your logic there was no such country as Kazakhstan until 1991, or that Ireland was not a country until 1922.

And contrary to popular belief Ireland does not end at the Monaghan border, to follow on your logic again one would have to conclude that my auld fella for instance, is not Irish despite his family home being literally two minutes walk away from the Cavan border.

Camelot,

I cant be ar*** to go picking through your last warped & twisted post FTA

Probably because you're incapable of actually arguing a given point and just resort to waffle instead.

The War is over FTA69 > "Its OVER" > No more murders, in the name of anything!

And when I have ever said that I support an armed campaign?

FTA69

Actully the PUPS low turn out in elections was due to its support of the good friday agreement, case you missed it both the PUP and UUP suffered electorally because of thier support for the good friday agreement.

The UUP still remained the largest Unionist party for years after the GFA, the PUP scraped two seats and later lost one. The fact remains that parties associated with Loyalist paramilitaries got f*ck all votes compared to other Unionist parties, even in their own heartlands. One of the main reason being the low calibre of their activists and them being linked to people selling cocaine, yokes and cannabis to their own youth.

because if you did you would know thats its a running joke about how much drugs the INLA brought into Northern Ireland in nationalist communitys

Whatever about the Irps they certainly aren't importing drugs and operating a wholesale operation. I first became involved in Republicanism when I was very young, and spent all my teenage years as an activist within that strand so to be honest I know what I'm on about in this regard. I'm not an eejit, and every Republican group has its share of arseholes, bullies and those not truly committed to Republicanism; at the same time the vast majority of people I came across were ones of personal integrity.

UDA were actully involved in drug deals together

And the UVF were never involved in drugs?

yes i am very troubled by the protection of touts

So where does that leave you then? You joined a regiment whose members were routinely sacrificed by the government whom you're going off to Afghanistan to fight for. They'd do the same to you in a second.

djpbarry

FTA69 wrote: »

Nonsense, the UK is a state, Ireland is a country, England and Wales are countries. By your logic there was no such country as Kazakhstan until 1991, or that Ireland was not a country until 1922.

And contrary to popular belief Ireland does not end at the Monaghan border, to follow on your logic again one would have to conclude that my auld fella for instance, is not Irish despite his family home being literally two minutes walk away from the Cavan border.

Semantics and nothing more. Northern Ireland is within the British Army's jurisdiction and you know it.

FTA69 wrote: »

And when I have ever said that I support an armed campaign?

You claimed that the soldiers in question were guilty of "invading and occupying other peoples' countries." That suggests to me that you deem them to be legitimate targets?

FTA69

Semantics and nothing more.

Eh, the fact that a part of this country remains under British rule is far from semantics, in fact its proven to be quite the issue over the course of our history.

You claimed that the soldiers in question were guilty of "invading and occupying other peoples' countries." That suggests to me that you deem them to be legitimate targets?

The British Army is guilty of invading and occupying other peoples' countries, both in the past and the present. And do I view them as legitimate targets? Well considering I don't support armed struggle that's largely inconsequential.

LordSutch

FTA69 wrote: »

Nonsense, the UK is a state, Ireland is a country, England and Wales are countries.

Actually, Wales is a principality

FTA69 wrote: »

And contrary to popular belief Ireland does not end at the Monaghan border, to follow on your logic again one would have to conclude that my auld fella for instance, is not Irish despite his family home being literally two minutes walk away from the Cavan border.

Its the same the world over, borders mark out boundries & territories, they distinguish between countries, always have done, always will do, and you either recognise them or you don't, and in the case of Northern Ireland, I do recognise it > but you don't ...........

FTA69 wrote: »

Probably because you're incapable of actually arguing a given point and just resort to waffle instead.

The reason I don't argue with you FTA69 in any constructive way, is because we are still at 'Base Camp' > if you dont agree on the fundamentals of the Belfast Agreement, (and the make up of the United Kingdom), then what is the point of arguing with you? > its just a waste of time mate because you are arguing from a point of view that is totally incompatible with my understanding of the Agreement. ie, that the North is part of the UK ........

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote: »

Eh, the fact that a part of this country remains under British rule is far from semantics, in fact its proven to be quite the issue over the course of our history.

The country I live in stops at the border, and doesn't include Northern Ireland.

The "issue", over the course of our history and including the present day, is and always has been that tiny minority who don't give a damn what the overwhelming majority want, and are prepared to kill to get their own way.

Unless, of course, it's currently deemed "unproductive" to do so.

The rest of us moved on in 1998. Outside of your imagination, there is no occupation. The sooner you realise that it's not a case of everyone being out of step except you, the better.

Northern Ireland is as occupied as Lancashire. You can tell yourself until you're blue in the face that your country has foreign soldiers in it, but you're only fooling yourself, and buying into a mythology that continues to cost lives. The tragedy is that you refuse to accept the correlation.

FTA69

The country I live in stops at the border, and doesn't include Northern Ireland.

No, the state you live in stops at Monaghan. The country you live in includes this entire island, irregardless of the political borders on it. Ireland has always been a distinct entity, it was regarded as such before the concept of England, never mind the UK, came about. The fact you seem to regard an area such as Fermanagh as the same as Lancashire is as fallacious as Thatcher's statement that South Armagh was "as British as Finchley", said while wearing a bullet-proof vest surrounded by heavily armed soliders.

I don't recall there ever being a garrison of 50,000 odd soldiers stationed in Lancashire, or wide-spread internment, or torture, or state-sponsoring of armed death squads. Despite successive British governments (and people like yoursef) swearing blind the northern part of Ireland is akin to London or Birmingham, it was baltantly clear to people the world over that it wasn't.

Similarly Irish unity remains an aspiration for the majority of people in Ireland, no matter how vague or low on the list of priorities, it remains.

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote: »

No, the state you live in stops at Monaghan. The country you live in includes this entire island, irregardless of the political borders on it.

The country I live in is synonymous with the state I live in. I don't make the distinction. I don't need or want a distinction. I don't need or want anyone else making that distinction on my behalf, with no more justification than a misty-eyed idealism.

I most certainly don't want anyone to ever, ever, ever claim on my behalf that a line on a map is worth killing a pizza delivery person, or a soldier, or a stray dog for.

The earth is not flat. Creation took more than a week. Northern Ireland is part of the UK and is not occupied. Deal with it.

Soldie

FTA69 wrote: »

No, the state you live in stops at Monaghan. The country you live in includes this entire island, irregardless of the political borders on it.

Citation?

O'Morris

Soldie wrote: »

Citation?

Article 2 of the constitution.

Diogenes

O'Morris wrote: »

Article 2 of the constitution.

You mean this article 2?

It is the entitlement and birthright of every person born in the island of Ireland, which includes its islands and seas, to be part of the Irish Nation. That is also the entitlement of all persons otherwise qualified in accordance with law to be citizens of Ireland. Furthermore, the Irish nation cherishes its special affinity with people of Irish ancestry living abroad who share its cultural identity and heritage.

Wait, no I have this weird memory of standing in line with hundreds of thousands of my countrymen and voting to change Article 2 to read;

the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

And hey, 90%+ of the people who turned out to vote agreed with me.

I'd walk away now O'Morris, you're looking pretty stupid.