** Police officer shot dead in Armagh

OhNoYouDidn't · 10-03-2009 11:39am

RiverWilde wrote: »

To my mind the law should be suspended to deal with these murdering bastards. If the govt. in the north knows who these people are - send in the SAS and execute them. The same in the south - send in the Ranger Wing and take them out.

If these people do not accept the rule of law then the rule of law should not apply to them.

Riv

This approach has been tried and been an abject failure. That sort of neanderthal thinking is why the SAS had to open a second graveyard in Hereford.

Thats aside from the point that it would be exactly what the dissident groups want - soldiers back on the streets brutalising the nationalist population and a new generation of martyrs.

Dannyboy83 · 10-03-2009 11:44am

FTA69 wrote: »

The UVF, LVF, OV and elements within the UDA remain organised and armed to the teeth. These people have no qualms about selling hard drugs to their own people and have killed many times, as well as initiating riots and targeting Nationalists while they were supposed to be on ceasefire.

There are elements of Loyalism who would love to countenance retaliation over this matter, and if more attacks of this nature occur then a Loyalst reaction is inevitable. That's the simplicity of their strategy, murder as many innocent Nationalists as possible in order to pressurise the Republican support base. They aren't all like David Ervine you know.

The area this happened in is well known for dissident activity.
Why do the Republicans always have to blame everyone but themselves?
Even when there is a lunatic dissident group on the go?
Strange.

We should remember this 2009, not 1979.
And these people are merely criminals, no different to the criminals in Limerick. Merely hiding beneath a banner, going for a power grab and control of the drugs or whatever money making devices are available.

The lunatics and the mindless who support them already have their own minds made up, regardless of the facts.

OhNoYouDidn't · 10-03-2009 11:48am

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

If the RIRA have killed Catholics..............we have a civil war.

Thats the funniest thing I have read in ages. Keep em coming.

furtzy · 10-03-2009 11:53am

I grew up in Belfast at the height of the Troubles. The current peace in the north is and always has been an uneasy one. Peoples ideals, views and aspirations didn't suddenly change with the Good Friday Agreement. Clashes still happen at the flashpoints such as the Ardoyne but are seldom reported.
What has happened in both shootings is an unwelcome but not unsurprising developement. Years of stagnation by the Assembly has created a vacuum into which extremism flourishes. Recent comments about SAS units being sent in for intelligence gathering by Hugh Orde were stupid in the extreme and may well have been the fan to the flame.

jimmmy · 10-03-2009 11:53am

RiverWilde wrote: »

To my mind the law should be suspended to deal with these murdering bastards. If the govt. in the north knows who these people are - send in the SAS and execute them. The same in the south - send in the Ranger Wing and take them out.

If these people do not accept the rule of law then the rule of law should not apply to them.

Riv

I have no time for terrorists but that may just throw fuel on the fire / raise calls about a "shoot to kill policy "etc. No, the best option would be to capture the person or people responsible for the murder of the police officer, then hand him/ her / them over to the Irish govt., then execute them, as they did to some IRA during the emergency ( early forties ). That would be a deterrent for people not to shoot police again.

Another question ; has anyone thought where the guns for the latest murders came from ? Is it possible not all arms were decommissioned ?

Irlbo · 10-03-2009 11:54am

bmaxi wrote: »

Other people's interpretation of patriotism may not be the same as yours.
Is patriotism ruination of your local economy?
Is patriotism having barbed wire fences erected around your homes and schools?
Is patriotism having your family in fear of turning the next corner?
I could go on, but if this is the road patriotism is going to take us, I'm not a patriot.

None of the above I would subscribe to,and neither would any nationalist or republican,these are not products of patriotism or republicanism,but of militaristic British occupation,and Unionist imposed segragation and a poorly run 26 county state which goes deaf to the calls of its Northern Brethren,the aims of republicans is to abolish sectaranism which hinders a 32 county socialist republic which is peaceful and has a thriving economy which benefits all and not just the wealthy

oscarBravo · 10-03-2009 12:00pm

We've already had to close one thread on a similar topic because of the usual suspects who don't seem to understand how to follow a simple and basic set of rules.

EVERYONE: READ THE CHARTER BEFORE POSTING HERE AGAIN.

The next person who accuses another poster of being unpatriotic because they don't share their delusion about the political status of Northern Ireland will be banned.

brianthebard · 10-03-2009 12:02pm

Dunno if its been posted already but the CIRA claimed this shooting.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyaucwkfauid/

Dannyboy83 · 10-03-2009 12:06pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Thats the funniest thing I have read in ages. Keep em coming.

Mr Carroll, from Banbridge, County Down, was an experienced officer with more than 20 years service.
He was reportedly sitting in his car providing cover when he was shot in the head at close range.

Can't believe you're laughing man.
Have to admit, I'm genuinely shocked.

A 48 yo man with a family is dead

Irlbo · 10-03-2009 12:06pm

jimmmy wrote: »

I have no time for terrorists but that may just throw fuel on the fire / raise calls about a "shoot to kill policy "etc. No, the best option would be to capture the person or people responsible for the murder of the police officer, then hand him/ her / them over to the Irish govt., then execute them, as they did to some IRA during the emergency ( early forties ). That would be a deterrent for people not to shoot police again.

Another question ; has anyone thought where the guns for the latest murders came from ? Is it possible not all arms were decommissioned ?

This getting funnier by the minute,you advocate the state executing republicans,yeah I cant wait to see that,I personally think that all those who collaborate or support British rule or go against the interests of their country should be shot,but thats not going to happen either

jimmmy · 10-03-2009 12:06pm

Irlbo wrote: »

the aims of republicans is to abolish sectaranism

Having on occassion listened to some republicans having a sing song after a few pints that is not the impression many people would get. Anyway, this is my last post on this thread.

djpbarry · 10-03-2009 12:07pm

Irlbo wrote: »

It will always be impossible to accept,and will never be accpeted,are you proud of having no sense of patriotism?

Am I happy that I do not have the same worldview as that which you have expressed? Hell yes.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

djpbarry wrote: »

Why is it so impossibly difficult for you people to accept that Northern Ireland is not part of this country?

MOVE THE **** ON!

Blatant trolling.

:rolleyes: Indeed.

OhNoYouDidn't · 10-03-2009 12:10pm

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Can't believe you're laughing man.
Have to admit, I'm genuinely shocked.

A 48 yo man with a family is dead

I'm laughing at you you tube with your hysterics and infantile political 'analysis'.

OhNoYouDidn't · 10-03-2009 12:11pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

The next person who accuses another poster of being unpatriotic because they don't share their delusion about the political status of Northern Ireland will be banned.

Impartial modding, got to love it.

FTA69 · 10-03-2009 12:12pm

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

The area this happened in is well known for dissident activity.
Why do the Republicans always have to blame everyone but themselves?
Even when there is a lunatic dissident group on the go?
Strange.

I fail to see the corralation between Loyalist reactions and Craigavon being a hotspot for "dissident activity". Are you saying that if Loyalists go out and decide to murder a taxi driver that the blame would lie with Irish Republicans?

Merely hiding beneath a banner, going for a power grab and control of the drugs or whatever money making devices are available.

One thing I will say is that people in these groups are generally not involved in criminality, least of all drugs and are not engaging in this activity for personal gain.

JimiTime · 10-03-2009 12:15pm

Met a couple recently from Belfast. A real eye opener. It was on holiday, and we had great craic for days, lovely folk. Then, somehow, the 'troubles' came up. These were 2 intelligeant, decent people. Lets just say, Omagh etc was no problem with them. I pressed and pressed as to why they would have no issue with the killing of innocent people? The best they had, was that they had to put 'UK' as their place of birth. So passionately they said, 'How would you feel if you had to put UK as your place of birth?'. 'Certainly not like I wanted to kill someone', I replied. I could understand when there was practically apatheid against Catholics there, that you could have a reason to rise up against the oppressor. But now? My self-delusion that the bigotry etc up North came from uneducated idiots was revealed right there and then. I was deeply shocked and saddened. I said to my wife that evening, Its just a matter of time up there. That was in January. I really hope this is not a new beginning to more violence:(:mad::(

Irlbo · 10-03-2009 12:15pm

brianthebard wrote: »

Dunno if its been posted already but the CIRA claimed this shooting.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/eyaucwkfauid/

The CIRA actually fired a shot is the big news here

Irlbo · 10-03-2009 12:18pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Impartial modding, got to love it.

Indeed,Conor Cruise O'Brein would be proud

oscarBravo · 10-03-2009 12:18pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I'm laughing at you you tube with your hysterics and infantile political 'analysis'.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Impartial modding, got to love it.

Banned for a month.

Wheely · 10-03-2009 12:18pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Thats the funniest thing I have read in ages. Keep em coming.

I agree here. Dannyboy, stop trying to imply he was laughing at the tragic death of a public servant. It incensed me to no end, but at the same time I smiled, bemused, to myself over the analysis in your post.

Dannyboy83 · 10-03-2009 12:18pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I'm laughing at you you tube with your hysterics and infantile political 'analysis'.

Fair enough.
I'm just reading between the lines and trying to discuss it, instead of reciting prayers from my propaganda book.

Its called thinking for yourself. Try it.
It hurts at the start but more satisfying than believing what others tell you.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Impartial modding, got to love it.

Is it always impartial if someone disagrees with you?

MeMyself&I · 10-03-2009 12:18pm

I can't believe this has all started again, no one wants this.

I live on a border town and i just couldn't deal with all this again, i had nearly forgot what it was like, my boyfriend is british, now im scared to take him over here again, yes this may sound stupid, but what if something happened, what if they heard his accent.

NO ONE WANTS THIS!!!!

oscarBravo · 10-03-2009 12:19pm

Irlbo wrote: »

Indeed,Conor Cruise O'Brein would be proud

Banned for a month.

Dannyboy83 · 10-03-2009 12:22pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I fail to see the corralation between Loyalist reactions and Craigavon being a hotspot for "dissident activity". Are you saying that if Loyalists go out and decide to murder a taxi driver that the blame would lie with Irish Republicans?

It was C-IRA.
Not loyalist.

One thing I will say is that people in these groups are generally not involved in criminality, least of all drugs and are not engaging in this activity for personal gain.

Do you mind if I ask what county you live in mate?

I know a man living in the middle of this area, who would seem to disagree completely with what you say.

yoshytoshy · 10-03-2009 12:25pm

There seems to be a major worry now ,that different cells around northern ireland are working together.

If it's the case the troubles could last a long time:(

Dannyboy83 · 10-03-2009 12:26pm

Wheely wrote: »

I agree here. Dannyboy, stop trying to imply he was laughing at the tragic death of a public servant. It incensed me to no end, but at the same time I smiled, bemused, to myself over the analysis in your post.

Perhaps I should clarify my post.

I mean a civil war between the nationalist community (between P-IRA and CIRA/RIRA).
I think thats evident if you read my posts.
I don't understand why its so hard to draw that conclusion

And I don't understand how people can be happy and positive about the death of innocents, but thats just me.

Wheely · 10-03-2009 12:28pm

RiverWilde wrote: »

These people are not nationalists - they're murderers - murderers who refuse to accept the rule of law. They think they have some divine right to go around murdering people to achieve their goals. Nevermind the fact that they are trying to undermine the democratic will of the people.

So if these people choose to use terror tactics against the state, the state should have no qualms about returning the favour.

Riv

I wouldnt even speculate as to whether innocent nationalists would be killed by a gung-ho SAS squad on the streets of Northern Ireland. Or that it would galvanize support for militant Nationalists. Fact is it may, I dont know, neither does any other poster.

Notwithstanding this, I still disagree in the strongest terms with the approach you advocate.
For a number of reason. Returning the favor of terror tactics? Really-you think its acceptable for a democratically elected govt to engage in such? How does it help for us to stoop to the level of thuggery? Sacrifice the moral high ground? Simplistic eye-for-an-eye mentality. Even if they found the murderers responsible, they are tried in a court of law, not taken out!

We have abolished the death penalty in this jurisdiction or haven't you heard.

Also to advocate that those who fail to respect the rule of law should not have it applied to them is the most paradoxical and ridiculous thing I've ever heard-it would serve to completely do away with the criminal justice system. ALL criminals break the law for God's sake-who would we try in the courts? Only those who respect it? What, pray tell, would you try these law abiding citizens for? Should motorists have an immunity in running down those who jay-walk? If its the law of the jungle you want, move to the jungle. Just because some in our society choose to act like animals doesnt mean we all have to do the same, regardless of what you think.

oscarBravo · 10-03-2009 12:28pm

FTA69 wrote: »

One thing I will say is that people in these groups are generally not involved in criminality, least of all drugs and are not engaging in this activity for personal gain.

I don't care. It doesn't matter a damn to me whether someone murders another human being in order to enrich themselves personally, or to further some perverse, warped ideology that the vast majority of us want no part of.

Either way, they're murdering scum.

Wheely · 10-03-2009 12:30pm

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

And I don't understand how people can be happy and positive about the death of innocents, but thats just me.

I hope your not implying that I am because I'd take great offence to that.I explained myself perfectly adequately so please dont attempt to attribute to me something that I didnt express.

FTA69 · 10-03-2009 12:31pm

It was C-IRA.
Not loyalist.

I know that. What I'm saying is that if Loyalists went out and murdered some poor b*stard on his way home from the pub or whatever then it would be unfair to blame Irish Republicans because a minority of them are engaged in an armed campaign. People always tried to implicitly (or directly) blame Republicans for Loyalist murder campaigns which I maintain is a lazy analysis which ignores the reality of Loyalism's inherently bigoted and reactionary nature.

Do you mind if I ask what county you live in mate?

Cork City. I'm not saying that every member of these groups is above criminality, they aren't. There have been members in every armed Republican group since the IRB who have used their position for personal gain. What I'm saying is that people generally don't become involved in these groups in order to commit crime for self-aggrandisement.

** Police officer shot dead in Armagh

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