** Police officer shot dead in Armagh

Wheely

Irlbo wrote: »

Indeed,Conor Cruise O'Brein would be proud

I dont know what I'll miss the most. Its going to be a long month.........:)

Dannyboy83

Wheely wrote: »

I hope your not implying that I am because I'd take great offence to that.I explained myself perfectly adequately so please dont attempt to attribute to me something that I didnt express.

That was not directed at you mate.
Read pages 2 and 3 and refer to ONYD's posts and the thread that was locked on Sunday, if you don't understand.

ONYD already said on a different thread that he has no sympathy at all for the soldiers who were killed.
But its probably unfair to speak about one if one were banned and could not throw one's toys out of the pram, so best to leave it be.

hblock21

oscarBravo wrote: »

Banned for a month.

Why was Irlbo banned? And why did you delete his message and not reply to it?

MeMyself&I

Irlbo wrote: »

Indeed,Conor Cruise O'Brein would be proud

Im not an expert on all things political, but was the above mentioned not a Unionist...i doubt he would be proud of any republican views.

oscarBravo

hblock21 wrote: »

Why was Irlbo banned? And why did you delete his message and not reply to it?

Banned for a week.

Once again: READ THE CHARTER, AND STAY ON-TOPIC.

Wheely

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

That was not directed at you mate.
Read pages 2 and 3 and refer to ONYD's posts and the thread that was locked on Sunday, if you don't understand.

ONYD already said on a different thread that he has no sympathy at all for the soldiers who were killed.
But its probably unfair to speak about one if one were banned and could not throw one's toys out of the pram, so best to leave it be.

Fair enough. I actually went back and looked at the posts you mentioned. Needless to say, I'm not in agreement with them. Always the devil's advocate i am..........

Dannyboy83

Ok c'mon, lets get back on topic mate.

or else lets just lock it up, I can't be bothered with any more arugments, a discusion would suit me grand tho

Thundercats Ho

hblock21 wrote: »

Why was Irlbo banned? And why did you delete his message and not reply to it?

Couldn't agree more. Also, onyd just gave a smart answer to the mod (not that i agree with everything these two posted)
Hardly impartial modding.
Banned i suppose, but if so, simply because i dont feel these two should be banned.

Dannyboy83

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Also, onyd just gave a smart answer to the mod (not that i agree with everything these two posted)
Hardly impartial modding.
Banned i suppose, but if so, simply because i dont feel these two should be banned.

Fcuk it.

Lock it please.

oscarBravo

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Also, onyd just gave a smart answer to the mod (not that i agree with everything these two posted)
Hardly impartial modding.
Banned i suppose, but if so, simply because i dont feel these two should be banned.

Banned for a month.

Is the message getting through yet?

Thread stays open, but I'll ban people all day if necessary.

FTA69

oscarBravo wrote: »

I don't care. It doesn't matter a damn to me ....

Chill the bap there chief, I was simply making a "point of information".

Personally as an Irish Republican I think these sort of actions offer nothing constructive to the future of our ideology. Republicanism itself has suffered a massive setback in recent years and the lack of a coherent alternative to the present status quo has resulted in Republicans, yet again, being dismissed by the majority of working people in Ireland. Two soldiers and a cop being whacked won't change the fundamentals one bit. The pertinent question that these groups have failed to answer is how they are going to achieve Republican objectives with a campaign that isn't a tenth of the intesnity of the previous Provisional one?

If the IRA could bomb London every month, kill 800 of the crown forces etc, and still not succeed how is this current phase going to?

To be honest Republicans need to take a step back and assess where this whole thing is going. Nobody wants this sort of activity to continue ergo all it will lead to is further loss of youngfellas (one of the soldiers was my age and lived just up the road from where I was in London) and more people in jail for f*ck all.

The future of Republicanism is one of politics, grass-roots community activism and the formation of a political alternative. That isn't going to be an easy task, but there are many people out there tipping away, shaping an analysis and generally rebuilding Republican politics. Seven men in a room deciding to pop a few Brits or a cop isn't going to take us anywhere quick.

MeMyself&I

These people are no longer fighting for the 'cause' (whatever that is now).
How dare a small minority of people decide that all this trouble must start again.
I just started to think today about how life used to be like, and i dont want to return to it. Yes my grandfather and great grandfather fought for a free ireland, yes the black and tans caused havoc to my people.
But im at an age now where i just want to get on with it, i want to feel safe living in my town, i want to fee safe when i cross the border, i want to feel safe bringing my english friends to visit my country.

prinz

They are not "republicans", they don't have the first idea of how a republic operates. They are not democrats. They don't care what the majority say/want/vote etc. They are murdering scum who should be hung drawn and quartered in the backwoods somewhere.

As regards the "british presence" as someone said.... what "presence", Northern Ireland is an integral part of the UK, thats like complaining about the Irish presence in Cork. Get a grip. Murdering unarmed boys and policemen going about their nights work is cowardly. Coward scum. These animals wouldnt have the bottle to wear a uniform - any uniform.

The race is on to nail these savages now.its only a matter of who gets to them first.

djpbarry

FTA69 wrote:

There were numerous peace marches throughout the war in the north, none of them really made a blind bit of difference because more often than not they focussed on platitudes as opposed to the root cause of violence in this country … the continued British presence in a part of this country which has always led to someone or other deciding to employ political violence.

FTA69 wrote: »

People always tried to implicitly (or directly) blame Republicans for Loyalist murder campaigns which I maintain is a lazy analysis which ignores the reality of Loyalism's inherently bigoted and reactionary nature.

So it’s ok to blame the Brits for Republican violence, but blaming Republicans for loyalist violence is “lazy”?

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote: »

Chill the bap there chief, I was simply making a "point of information".

I know. I'm responding by rejecting the idea that there's any sort of thin veneer of respectability that these murdering scum deserve.

Personally as an Irish Republican I think these sort of actions offer nothing constructive to the future of our ideology.

While not disagreeing with the substance of your post, the implicit corollary is that if "these sort of actions" did offer something constructive to the future of your ideology, they would be acceptable.

You and others are condemning the cold-blooded butchery of three human beings because it might harm your cause. Not because three human beings were butchered in cold blood. What's wrong with this picture?

Dannyboy83

FTA69 wrote: »

Chill the bap there chief, I was simply making a "point of information".

Personally as an Irish Republican I think these sort of actions offer nothing constructive to the future of our ideology. Republicanism itself has suffered a massive setback in recent years and the lack of a coherent alternative to the present status quo has resulted in Republicans, yet again, being dismissed by the majority of working people in Ireland. Two soldiers and a cop being whacked won't change the fundamentals one bit. The pertinent question that these groups have failed to answer is how they are going to achieve Republican objectives with a campaign that isn't a tenth of the intesnity of the previous Provisional one?

If the IRA could bomb London every month, kill 800 of the crown forces etc, and still not succeed how is this current phase going to?

To be honest Republicans need to take a step back and assess where this whole thing is going. Nobody wants this sort of activity to continue ergo all it will lead to is further loss of youngfellas (one of the soldiers was my age and lived just up the road from where I was in London) and more people in jail for f*ck all.

The future of Republicanism is one of politics, grass-roots community activism and the formation of a political alternative. That isn't going to be an easy task, but there are many people out there tipping away, shaping an analysis and generally rebuilding Republican politics. Seven men in a room deciding to pop a few Brits or a cop isn't going to take us anywhere quick.

Aside from the fact that its murder and just plain wrong, if we were to look at it from a RIRA point of view, what does it achieve?

I can't see anything it could achieve.
It just sets everything back further.

The GFA basically hands the North over on a plate once everything is wrapped up.

Committing more terrorism just makes the British take a stance and we all know they will never give in to that.
If they didn't give in to Nazi Germany, why would they give in to a bunch of thugs killing Policemen?
If they didn't give into the Muslim terrorists, why would they change for RIRA scum?

So instead of possibly pushing anything further along.
This is just going to hold every back for another decade.


Where is the gap in their thinking?
That is why I've said it just looks like a power grab.

FTA69

You and others are condemning the cold-blooded butchery of three human beings because it might harm your cause. Not because three human beings were butchered in cold blood. What's wrong with this picture?

As I said on another thread, the British Army have no right to be in this country and are an army of occupation. The same crowd are also in Afghanistan and Iraq. If you want to buy into the whole "macho-soldier" bullsh*t that is marketed in Britain (and Ireland) then off with you, but don't start cribbing when someone in one of these countries decides to shoot at you. That's what you sign up for when you join an imperialist army.

I know British soldiers, and despite my initial instincts I was even on friendly terms with a British soldier who was my age (21) who was about to go off to Afghanistan. His mam even gave me a card on my birthday. Similarly I used to live above a fella who did a number of tours in Ireland and Kosovo, we got on like a house on fire.

The reason I'm raising all this personal lark is to highlight the fact that I'm not a mad bigot who revels in death of others, nor I am incapable of empathy with those who join the British Army or whatever. Still, that doesn't change the reality of the situation that their presence here is wrong.

MeMyself&I

My boyfriend was over visiting me a few weekends ago, we went out to watch the big rugby game, he wore his English rugby top, and everything was fine and dandy. Now this week i dont even want him to ever visit ireland again, just out of pure fear.

This so called republicans havent got a clue what they are doing, u bet if anyone asked them to give a detailed run down of the history of the troubles, they wouldnt have a clue where to start.
Violent thugs, that is all they are.

'A nation once again'....its not gonna happen!!!



I just realised, could i be in trouble for saying all this?

FTA69

djpbarry wrote: »

So it’s ok to blame the Brits for Republican violence, but blaming Republicans for loyalist violence is “lazy”?

No, what's "lazy" is you comparing the resistance to the Brits colonising this country with reactionary murder of civilians based on their religion by British-backed death squads.

FTA69

MeMyself&I wrote: »

My boyfriend was over visiting me a few weekends ago, we went out to watch the big rugby game, he wore his English rugby top, and everything was fine and dandy. Now this week i dont even want him to ever visit ireland again, just out of pure fear.

I just realised, could i be in trouble for saying all this?

Bless us, can you spare us the drama please? :rolleyes:

Dannyboy83

MeMyself&I wrote: »

I just realised, could i be in trouble for saying all this?

No.

P. Breathnach

oscarBravo wrote: »

Banned for a month.

Is the message getting through yet?

Thread stays open, but I'll ban people all day if necessary.

This could be a great scheme: keep the thread alive, but ban everybody who posts in it.

oscarBravo

FTA69 wrote: »

As I said on another thread, the British Army have no right to be in this country and are an army of occupation.

And several people on the CT forum keep telling us that the world is run by shape-shifting lizards. People believe all sorts of bizarre crap, but that doesn't make it a legitimate perspective.

Northern Ireland is part of the UK. We were asked to change the Constitution to affirm this fact, and we did so by an overwhelming majority.

For the love of $DEITY, move on.

yoshytoshy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

This could be a great scheme: keep the thread alive, but ban everybody who posts in it.

As long as it doesn't turn into that other website ,it's all good.:)

oscarBravo

P. Breathnach wrote: »

This could be a great scheme: keep the thread alive, but ban everybody who posts in it.

Only the ones who think the rules don't apply to them.

FTA69

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

if we were to look at it from a RIRA point of view, what does it achieve?

Many Republicans contend that the Brits have achieved all of their aims as a result of the Good Friday Agreement, those being summed up in the terms

Ulsterisation : the confining of the conflict to within Ireland, use of RUC instead of the Brits etc, an effort to portray things as mad paddies killing each other.

Criminalisation : The attempt to portray Republican violence as inherently criminal as opposed to the response to an occupation.

Normalisation: The attempt to instill regularity and stability in Ireland within a British context, again a method of masking the occupation of the country.

The Real IRA would believe that such attacks disrupt the normalisation process. Ultimately they would aim to escalate their campaign in order to highlight the inherent contradictions of normalising the British presence here.

Now before anyone hops down my throat I'm just pointing out where they're coming from.

prinz

FTA69 wrote: »

As I said on another thread, the British Army have no right to be in this country and are an army of occupation. The same crowd are also in Afghanistan and Iraq.

As Northern Ireland IS the United Kingdom, they have as much right to be there as the Irish Defence Forces have to be in the Curragh, even more so now, with crazed gunmen out on a killing spree. Interesting how you can "occupy" your own country.

As regards Iraq and Afghanistan, they are there defending basic human rights against the same scum as the RIRA. They are in Afghanistan with a UN mandate with almost 30 other countries contributing. The difference is the British have the balls to put their troops in the frontline.

The same goons who say that a PSNI officer cant do his job in peace are the same scum who would throw acid on girls faces for going to school. Its not political. Its immoral murder and terrorism.

junder

FTA69 wrote: »

I know that. What I'm saying is that if Loyalists went out and murdered some poor b*stard on his way home from the pub or whatever then it would be unfair to blame Irish Republicans because a minority of them are engaged in an armed campaign. People always tried to implicitly (or directly) blame Republicans for Loyalist murder campaigns which I maintain is a lazy analysis which ignores the reality of Loyalism's inherently bigoted and reactionary nature.



Cork City. I'm not saying that every member of these groups is above criminality, they aren't. There have been members in every armed Republican group since the IRB who have used their position for personal gain. What I'm saying is that people generally don't become involved in these groups in order to commit crime for self-aggrandisement.

You claim loyalists are inherently bigoted which in itself is a inherently bigoted statement, so far the only bigoted posts i am seeing on this site are from republicans claiming that those of us of protestant descent in northern ireland are aliens to the land we call home.
To makes things clear i am a loyalist, i was a member of the progressive unionist party for many years, i dispise sectarianism in all its forms and like many within the loyalist community will be doing our level best to insure that loyalist paramiltarys do not retaliate.
So far we have a policemen and 2 soldiers killed for doing nothing more then doing thier duty (have any of you even considered that fact that the policeofficer may have been from the catholic community) all done by the same group the blew the heart out of omagh and killed innocent people many of whom where again catholic, and yet people are still trying to excuse thier actions as in some way ok.
As i have already mentioned i am in the British army, the Royal Irish as it happens, and i am from northern ireland so explain to me how i can 'occupy' my own country.
However i would like to say again that it is gratfying to see so many from the republic of Ireland roundly condemning the actions of the RIRA. Northern Ireland is a fact of life it exists and until demographics say otherwise it will continue to exist so we have a choice of living peacefully as nieghbours or spending many more decades killing each other i am glad most of you in the RoI choose the former

Dannyboy83

FTA69 wrote: »

Many Republicans contend that the Brits have achieved all of their aims as a result of the Good Friday Agreement, those being summed up in the terms

Ulsterisation : the confining of the conflict to within Ireland, use of RUC instead of the Brits etc, an effort to portray things as mad paddies killing each other.

Criminalisation : The attempt to portray Republican violence as inherently criminal as opposed to the response to an occupation.

Normalisation: The attempt to instill regularity and stability in Ireland within a British context, again a method of masking the occupation of the country.

The Real IRA would believe that such attacks disrupt the normalisation process. Ultimately they would aim to escalate their campaign in order to highlight the inherent contradictions of normalising the British presence here.

Now before anyone hops down my throat I'm just pointing out where they're coming from.

Keep this up and I may learn something.
Thanks.

CamperMan

:mad: